Support NeoGAF

[Sesuadra]

Oh please. You got a fully working video game. Don't try to make it sound like a malfunctioning lawnmower.

You chose to spend sixty fucking dollars on a vague concept.

That's not true. Kyoufu played a lot in the first star system and when Kyoufu started to jump to new ones, error after error happened.

This is 100% a case for a refund. Game not working as intended, because one of the main features to see new star systems and finish the game won't work.

Edit: just saw the link in your tag http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=34465117&postcount=175 . Yeah, for me there is no need to take you serious.

 

[EatinOlives]

I don't know what it is about refunds that gets people's blood boiling. I swear there's more ire being directed at random people for getting a refund than ire at any one of the multitude of shitty things publishers do to consumers on a regular basis.

No one in this thread who's getting a refund is gonna do so repeatedly. Hell, if they're on PS4 they're cashing in on their ONE chance at getting a refund. It's within PSN's own policy. They're not doing anything illegal, it's not theft, and nobody's putting a gun to Sony's head.

What do the angry people want? To force consumers suckered into buying the game off false pretenses to be stuck with a thing they don't like? Is that supposed to help those people sleep better at night or something?

 

[FloatingDivider]

wow



That's a more accurate statement of the OT thread.

I don't understand how people are still defending the game or saying that there was no lying.

It's pretty pathetic.

No joke, it's essentially a bunch of people getting weirded out by the thought people aren't into sharing their delusion. Anyone who honestly looks at this game should see it for the vapid, overly simplistic bar maintenance sim it really is. The worst part is how the entire game is sold by obfuscation. Every single decision seems to be made with the purpose of obfuscating how terrible this thing is by claiming there is deeper meaning and better gameplay beyond the next ridge, on the next planet, in the next galaxy, etc...

 

[redcrayon]

Oh please. You got a fully working video game. Don't try to make it sound like a malfunctioning lawnmower.

You chose to spend sixty fucking dollars on a vague concept.

Did you look at the error log? That looks like software 'malfunctioning' to me.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

"You were asking for it, believing the developer like that."

Please tell me that's not a rape reference.

Please.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

for those curious, seems like the live chat option was removed. I'll attempt it tomorrow.

I've never even attempted to request a refund before and have bought a bunch of games, so hopefully with the leeway they're giving they'll give me a break.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

It starts here if anyone is wondering.

LOL, they are starting to cry about this thread over in the OT

If you think they are being childish then don't lower yourself to their level and for goodness sakes don't bring it here please.

 

[Flying Toaster]

for those curious, seems like the live chat option was removed. I'll attempt it tomorrow.

I've never even attempted to request a refund before and have bought a bunch of games, so hopefully with the leeway they're giving they'll give me a break.

strange, scroll to the bottom of the link there should be live chat.

 

[EatinOlives]

Oh please. You got a fully working video game. Don't try to make it sound like a malfunctioning lawnmower.

You chose to spend sixty fucking dollars on a vague concept.

So what, force people to stick with a game they don't like instead? Is that gonna make you feel better?

 

[RMI]

It starts here if anyone is wondering.

Amazing. Write it down and take a picture because even after this fucking game there will be people pre-ordering games based on vague hyped-up bullshit, and then instead of admitting they were scammed they'll dig their heels into the ground and proclaim that everyone else created and demanded an impossible product.

 

[XAL]

I think the last huge disappointment/fuck up on this scale was Destiny, but at least that game had fun core gameplay. Everything wrong with that game has been pretty much fixed (though clearly fell wayyyyyy short of what they intended it to be at launch), I don't know if No Man's Sky can be fixed to be honest, there would have to be enormous content overhauls to get it to the state of the previous E3 demos.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Is that gonna make you feel better?

The "Us vs. Them" mentality in this thread is goddamn amazing.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

strange, scroll to the bottom of the link there should be live chat.

maybe in other time zones, down here where I am the link was removed, and when I attempted to find it another article by googling it, clicking it led me to "we're sorry but it's currently closed, operating hours are BLA BLA BLA". It's 1:50 am down here, it opens up on Sunday from 6 am to 8 pm so I should have time to attempt it tomorrow.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

maybe in other time zones, down here where I am the link was removed, and when I attempted to find it another article by googling it, clicking it led me to "we're sorry but it's currently closed, operating hours are BLA BLA BLA". It's 1:50 am down here, it opens up on Sunday from 6 am to 8 pm so I should have time to attempt it tomorrow.

Where do you live? Could be nice to collect links from various time zones for people.

 

[Flying Toaster]

I think the last huge disappointment/fuck up on this scale was Destiny, but at least that game had fun core gameplay. Everything wrong with that game has been pretty much fixed (though clearly fell wayyyyyy short of what they intended it to be at launch), I don't know if No Man's Sky can be fixed to be honest, there would have to be enormous content overhauls to get it to the state of the previous E3 demos.

Its funny you bring up Destiny... Thats a game that had a lot of hate and rightfully so. Bungie had the ability to deal with all the massive issues and rebuilt goodwill with their community. I don't see how this can happen with all the radio silence from Hello Games.

 

[Rapscallion74]

If you think they are being childish then don't lower yourself to their level and for goodness sakes don't bring it here please.

I was just making a humorous observation. I didn't "bring" anything, so cool your jets.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Where do you live? Could be nice to collect links from various time zones for people.

Central US. Regardless I was gonna get to bed soon.

 

[redcrayon]

The "Us vs. Them" mentality in this thread is goddamn amazing.

What do you think of the error log? Is a refund not justified if a game starts crashing for a user every 20 minutes at a certain point?

Closest comparison would be Skyrim on PS3 at launch, which became almost unplayable for me, but only after my save file became huge after several dozen hours. I think it would have been fair for me to ask for a refund at the time.

 

[Corpekata]

What do you think of the error log? Is a refund not justified if a game starts crashing for a user every 20 minutes at a certain point?

Closest comparison would be Skyrim on PS3 at launch, which became almost unplayable for me, but only after my save file became huge after several dozen hours. I think it would have been fair for me to ask for a refund at the time.

That wasn't even just at launch. That was like Skyrim on PS3 for the first 6 months.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

I was just making a humorous observation. I didn't "bring" anything, so cool your jets.

My jets weren't even on bro. I've seen threads go to crap for much less than that. I just didn't want that to happen here. If someone is being picked on in particular behind their back or something then that is another story but that could also be PM'd.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

The "Us vs. Them" mentality in this thread is goddamn amazing.

I'm not sure what you find so hard to understand - the game's dev sold this as something completely different. They're still using videos and pictures of stuff that ISN'T EVEN IN THE FUCKING GAME on the Steam page. That alone should be all the justification for refunding, let alone his nebulous suggestions of multiplayer (and 11th hour retraction!) and 'hidden' mysterious stuff in the game - which doesn't exist just FYI - and some huge revelation at the centre. He hasn't said a word since release or addressed the community's concerns on any of this stuff. Not a peep.

This entire game survived a few weeks on its community going 'it gets better when you do X or Y or reach this or that' (another suggestion by the dev - someone reached the centre of the galaxy and suddenly it's 'you have to reach the centre of the universe, not the galaxy!'... also not true).

The ending - this huge 'secret' he talked up - was spoiled, and itsfuckingnothing.gif and you're outraged people are going to try get their money back on their purchase as soon as it's available?

 

[XAL]

Its funny you bring up Destiny... Thats a game that had a lot of hate and rightfully so. Bungie had the ability to deal with all the massive issues and rebuilt goodwill with their community. I don't see how this can happen with all the radio silence from Hello Games.

Yeah.

To be fair the community was all too forgiving, especially because of how much Bungie fucked up the game literally every patch - was basically one step forward, two steps back for a long stretch. Things were overnerfed or misbalanced accidentally and not fixed for weeks/months - and it happened repeatedly. Not to mention raid bugs that persisted through content releases. Their whole bumbling with progression and currencies was like watching a blind person stumble through a china shop with narrow aisles and low tables.

Ultimately they made good with the most recent April update.

I've played since alpha and I think that with Rise of Iron the game finally has a justified $60 price tag. Vanilla Destiny was an early access game trapped in Beta. Even the fucking icons were placeholders for so long.

Gonna jump back in with ROI, I have faith now that enough hard lessons were learned to make Destiny 2 good.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Central US. Regardless I was gonna get to bed soon.

Well then you should have no problems tomorrow. Most of the refunds that I know of have gone through almost instantly in the US.

Outside the US though is another story, hopefully it is just due to the call centers being down at a certain time like they are now for you.

 

[JaseC]

Oh that, yeah both my previous refund requests we're through that, both got denied :/

Are you sure we're talking about the same thing? You do have to go out of your way a bit to submit a refund request via ticket. This:

Rather than this:

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Are you sure we're talking about the same thing? You do have to go out of your way a bit to submit a refund request via ticket. This:



Rather than this:

You need to make a walkthrough lol. I'd keep the link and post it every time this question is asked.

 

[Coketruck]

This is really fucking absurd and opportunistic. So much for any big publishers taking risks on ambitious indie devs in the future.

The game crashed so often over the course of 4-5 hours as to render it practically unplayable... But you're right, it's incredibly absurd to want a refund for a product that literally doesn't work. I feel so ashamed.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

The game crashed so often over the course of 4-5 hours as to render it practically unplayable... But you're right, it's incredibly absurd to eant a refund for a product that literally doesn't work. I feel so ashamed.

 

[Ambitious]

The game's a broken mess, and not only on a technical level. While I didn't experience as many crashes as Kyoufu, it probably still crashed more often than all my other PS4 games combined. This is unacceptable. This is unacceptable for any game, no matter how small or big the studio, no matter whether it's sold for five bucks or 60.

The gameplay mechanics are boring and repetitive, half-assed or outright missing. I don't need to remind you of that gigantic list of broken promises. If they're not able to implement their original vision, that's a shame, but it's fine. Just communicate your status. But what they did instead was lying through their teeth, on national TV and E3 stages. Even now, they're still using their fake promotional material to sell this piece of shit. And now that it's out, they've gone into full radio silence. Disgusting.

Kyoufu not only had the right to ask for a refund, but I'd actually say it was the right thing to do, just to send a message. I'm writing my refund request right now as well - my first ever.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

What disappointed me in the game, and well, led me to ask for a refund, is just being burnt out by the loop and by retreading the old trailers and what was said about the game. Just...alot of it was missing. Faction wars, space battles, the portals don't even freaking work, just...

....I dunno what happened between that and release. I love the exploration, don't get me wrong. I really do but...I feel that those $60 could wait, until they substantially update the game. Then I'll rebuy it, that's for sure.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I'm not sure what you find so hard to understand - the game's dev sold this as something completely different. They're still using videos and pictures of stuff that ISN'T EVEN IN THE FUCKING GAME on the Steam page. That alone should be all the justification for refunding, let alone his nebulous suggestions of multiplayer (and 11th hour retraction!) and 'hidden' mysterious stuff in the game - which doesn't exist just FYI - and some huge revelation at the centre. He hasn't said a word since release or addressed the community's concerns on any of this stuff. Not a peep.

This entire game survived a few weeks on its community going 'it gets better when you do X or Y or reach this or that' (another suggestion by the dev - someone reached the centre of the galaxy and suddenly it's 'you have to reach the centre of the universe, not the galaxy!'... also not true).

The ending - this huge 'secret' he talked up - was spoiled, and itsfuckingnothing.gif and you're outraged people are going to try get their money back on their purchase as soon as it's available?

As someone who has never requested a refund this is the first time I genuinely feel robbed. The game I was promised and the game I was marketed was released as a shadow of what it should have been. The developers haven't addressed any of these issues or complaints with even a freaking tweet.

They aren't all twirling their mustaches and laughing all the way to the bank but if I can get my money back I'm going to get it because I was robbed and I let not even the hype machine get me. Just the press and the game itself.

At least with Bethesda titles I enjoy my time with the game for the most part until the end. I can binge titles for hours usually. With no man's sky on the first day I was already playing for like 2 hours tops then I stopped because I was getting bored. I thought to myself there has to be more. But there wasn't. They charged 60 bucks for this title. If they can look at people and say they feel their game is worth that much then all to them but I know the value of a full priced title for my standards and this isn't it.

 

[Fix The Scientist]

Just emailed Sony Australia about a refund. Releasing a game that is nothing short of broken dog shit is one thing... but lying about your product is completely unacceptable.

 

[JaseC]

You need to make a walkthrough lol. I'd keep the link and post it every time this question is asked.

I can stitch one together:

https://support.steampowered.com/newticket.php

Click on any of the categories after logging in and then "Contact Steam Support". You'll then be able to create a refund-related ticket.

 

[Juicy Bob]

The game crashed so often over the course of 4-5 hours as to render it practically unplayable... But you're right, it's incredibly absurd to want a refund for a product that literally doesn't work. I feel so ashamed.

How can something you played for 4-5 hours be 'practically unplayable'?

That is literally a contradiction of terms.

 

[redcrayon]

How can something you played for 4-5 hours be 'practically unplayable'?

That is literally a contradiction of terms.

I think you're being a bit too literal here. It was technically possible to 'play' Betheda's PS3 games when the framerate dropped to slideshow levels and they crashed every time you moved through a door or stepped in water. Not enjoyably so, though. 'Practically', as in 'reasonably' unplayable? Sure.

While we're calling people up on grammar, your use of it 'literally' being a contradiction in terms would only be correct if he hadn't used 'practically' to suggest that it was almost unplayable due to the instability rather than no gameplay at all being possible.

It's not a binary thing where if a game isn't completely and utterly unplayable it's fine. A game that is practically unplayable for all intents and purposes, but someone with the patience to reload over and over again when it crashes can slowly crawl forwards, isn't suddenly excused because it's technically 'playable'.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

How can something you played for 4-5 hours be 'practically unplayable'?

That is literally a contradiction of terms.

Are we going to go into semantics over the definition of literal? We all know what he meant.

You can play a game through sheer will and it can either run horribly or just constantly crash but you keep restarting it

 

[hamchan]

How can something you played for 4-5 hours be 'practically unplayable'?

That is literally a contradiction of terms.

Because a whole chunk of progress can be wiped every time it crashes, that makes it "practically unplayable" even though the hours were spent by the user.

 

[RawNuts]

Oh please. You got a fully working video game. Don't try to make it sound like a malfunctioning lawnmower.

You chose to spend sixty fucking dollars on a vague concept.

I'm fucking speechless.

How can something you played for 4-5 hours be 'practically unplayable'?

That is literally a contradiction of terms.

Like what is practical even? Fuck words, am I right?

 

[Juicy Bob]

Are we going to go into semantics over the definition of literal? We all know what he meant.

You can play a game through sheer will and it can either run horribly or just constantly crash but you keep restarting it

To clarify, I'm a PS4 player, so my experiences and views are based on that.

I think that the myriad of technical and performance problems experienced by some PC users do count as the game being 'uplayable' and I can appreciate that that is partly why the Steam Refunds system exists - buy a game, realise it is almost impossible to run properly, ask for a refund within two hours of play. Perfectly reasonable.

 

[PdotMichael]

I guess Helo Games and Sean Murray are finished.

 

[Backfoggen]

Has anyone here who purchased a code through amazon been able to receive a refund?

This is great news then,

I can confirm they will make a one-time exception to the "no refunds for digital purchases" rule. So people that bought digitally on Amazon can get their refund as well.

 

[Jebusman]

LOL, they are starting to cry about this thread over in the OT

Look, let's be real here.

There are going to be people who obviously still enjoy the game despite any and all flaws everyone else sees in it. They are going to be the vocal defenders, for whatever reason, whether it be a guilty pleasure or a genuine belief that the game is better than we all see it to be.

When a game gets a real rough reaction, those people are going to hide in the OT because it's the only place they really have left to talk positively about a game. Sometimes a few of them will wander out and run the defense strat in every thread they find because they feel it necessary, but otherwise the OT is their home to talk about the "game".

So just let them be. Don't bother going into the OT and trying to convince them otherwise because it's a futile effort. And don't bother instigating it with anyone who wanders out in the other threads. They've already made up their minds that everyone else is just being "toxic" about the game, and nothing you do or say will change it.

Getting a refund after 50 hours might seem strange to people who've been conditioned to essentially having next to no rights after purchasing a game. Gamespot conditioned people to accept "trading" a game back in for a lesser value than they originally paid, Steam conditioned people for a long time to not get a refund whatsoever. PC games specifically have long had "You opened it, you can't return it" policies thanks to CD keys and the simplicity of piracy making it quite easy to install a game, then return it.

And since they're playing a game and not seeing a "problem" with it, they can't fathom why anyone would want a refund, or why that want for a refund could possibly come after almost 50 hours of playing a game (the idea that a product can deteriorate over time to become unplayable is foreign to them).

It's going to take a long time to recondition people to the idea that they actually "can" have rights when it comes to video game purchases. And that while the developers can be your "friends", the moment you buy a game it becomes a business transaction. Friendship should have no relevancy. We pay, they deliver. If they can't deliver, we get our money back.

 

[Juicy Bob]

Like what is practical even? Fuck words, am I right?

No, the problem is that the word 'unplayable' is overused so much in modern day game discussion that it quite honestly has lost a lot of meaning.

PC gamers who couldn't get the game to even run at a stable FPS or without crashing at launch even though their systems met or exceeded the recommended requirements of the game have a right to claim the game as 'unplayable'.

PS4 players who have sank 10+ hours or whatever into it, is it really accurate to describe them as having spent all that time playing an 'unplayable' game? I'm trying to be reasonable here.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

As someone who has never requested a refund this is the first time I genuinely feel robbed. The game I was promised and the game I was marketed was released as a shadow of what it should have been. The developers haven't addressed any of these issues or complaints with even a freaking tweet.

They aren't all twirling their mustaches and laughing all the way to the bank but if I can get my money back I'm going to get it because I was robbed and I let not even the hype machine get me. Just the press and the game itself.

At least with Bethesda titles I enjoy my time with the game for the most part until the end. I can binge titles for hours usually. With no man's sky on the first day I was already playing for like 2 hours tops then I stopped because I was getting bored. I thought to myself there has to be more. But there wasn't. They charged 60 bucks for this title. If they can look at people and say they feel their game is worth that much then all to them but I know the value of a full priced title for my standards and this isn't it.

I kind of feel dramatic claiming I was 'robbed' - but I'll agree that the more I thought about his pitches about this game, the more annoyed I got. Basically just promising whatever he wanted, moving the goalposts at the last minute and then using the old marketing material to push the game - still - just felt really sleazy.

I was sitting there going 'well... it's relaxing to wander around... kinda... even though it's not at all what he said it would be' then I just thought - fuck this guy - just because its his 'dream game' or he's an indie or whatever, doesn't mean I have to feel bad even though he's the one who lied and sold us this half arsed game. I was looking at interviews about the game just days before it came out and he was so enthusiastic talking about all these features and they don't even exist! It's completely absurd. I'm stoked Sony let me refund it, HG doesn't deserve my money. I'm astounded people are defending him.

 

[Corpekata]

No, the problem is that the word 'unplayable' is overused so much in modern day game discussion that it quite honestly has lost a lot of meaning.

PC gamers who couldn't get the game to even run at a stable FPS or without crashing at launch even though their systems met or exceeded the recommended requirements of the game have a right to claim the game as 'unplayable'.

PS4 players who have sank 10+ hours or whatever into it, is it really accurate to describe them as having spent all that time playing an 'unplayable' game? I'm trying to be reasonable here.

Not sure what platform has to do with anything. The game's a crashy mess for some people on both platforms. Just look at the Angry Joe review where it crashes like 7 times for him, or some of the people that have posted PS4 crash logs in this very thread.

The game's a technical mess in general.

 

[redcrayon]

To clarify, I'm a PS4 player, so my experiences and views are based on that.

I think that the myriad of technical and performance problems experienced by some PC users do count as the game being 'uplayable' and I can appreciate that that is partly why the Steam Refunds system exists - buy a game, realise it is almost impossible to run properly, ask for a refund within two hours of play. Perfectly reasonable.

What do you think is fair if a game described as a lengthy adventure title suddenly starts crashing every twenty minutes when you are fifty hours in though? That's what this OP/thread is hinging on. I think it's fair to offer a refund in such a case, as the product is sold with the expectation of being playable without such constant frustration for as long as you please.

'Fifty hours' seems to rub people up the wrong way. It's lengthy enough to finish lots of games, but in the case of space sims, RPGs etc, it's often barely scratching the surface. I put well over 50+ hours into Monster Hunter over the first month, and if it was suddenly rendered practically unplayable due to instability only as I reached the endgame after weeks of play, I'd definitely be asking for a refund.

No, the problem is that the word 'unplayable' is overused so much in modern day game discussion that it quite honestly has lost a lot of meaning.

I get what you're saying here. For me 'practically unplayable' is something like PS3 Skyrim where it slowed to a crawl and crashed all the time to the point where it was incredibly frustrating, but I've seen it used to describe stuff like occasional minor framerate drops when the screen is busy. If that was the case loads of my favourite NES games were definitely 'unplayable'

 

[Juicy Bob]

Not sure what platform has to do with anything. The game's a crashy mess for some people on both platforms. Just look at the Angry Joe review where it crashes like 7 times for him, or some of the people that have posted crash logs in this very thread.

The game's a technical mess in general.

Well, I'm just recognising that the PC launch was notoriously affected with technical issues above the PS4 version.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

EDIT: Going to post on the next page for visibility because it needs to be seen IMO.

 

[RawNuts]

No, the problem is that the word 'unplayable' is overused so much in modern day game discussion that it quite honestly has lost a lot of meaning.

It is a shitty overused term, but they added practically before it so it isn't literally a contradiction.

I understand what you mean though, and you should understand what they mean as well.

 

[Hektor]

No, the problem is that the word 'unplayable' is overused so much in modern day game discussion that it quite honestly has lost a lot of meaning.

PC gamers who couldn't get the game to even run at a stable FPS or without crashing at launch even though their systems met or exceeded the recommended requirements of the game have a right to claim the game as 'unplayable'.

PS4 players who have sank 10+ hours or whatever into it, is it really accurate to describe them as having spent all that time playing an 'unplayable' game? I'm trying to be reasonable here.

Since when does unplayable mean that you can't get to run it for a few hours.

I've played Deus Ex perfectly fine for 15 hours up until yesterday where I ran into a completely game breaking bug. Whenever I try to leave the area it crashes. I cannot continue playing it at all anymore.

That is unplayable. Doesn't matter if it worked for a few hours, if you can't successfully play a game from beginning to end like op couldn't play nms because of severe crashes in the late game, then it is unplayable.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Look, let's be real here.

There are going to be people who obviously still enjoy the game despite any and all flaws everyone else sees in it. They are going to be the vocal defenders, for whatever reason, whether it be a guilty pleasure or a genuine belief that the game is better than we all see it to be.

When a game gets a real rough reaction, those people are going to hide in the OT because it's the only place they really have left to talk positively about a game. Sometimes a few of them will wander out and run the defense strat in every thread they find because they feel it necessary, but otherwise the OT is their home to talk about the "game".

So just let them be. Don't bother going into the OT and trying to convince them otherwise because it's a futile effort. And don't bother instigating it with anyone who wanders out in the other threads. They've already made up their minds that everyone else is just being "toxic" about the game, and nothing you do or say will change it.

Getting a refund after 50 hours might seem strange to people who've been conditioned to essentially having next to no rights after purchasing a game. Gamespot conditioned people to accept "trading" a game back in for a lesser value than they originally paid, Steam conditioned people for a long time to not get a refund whatsoever. PC games specifically have long had "You opened it, you can't return it" policies thanks to CD keys and the simplicity of piracy making it quite easy to install a game, then return it.

And since they're playing a game and not seeing a "problem" with it, they can't fathom why anyone would want a refund, or why that want for a refund could possibly come after almost 50 hours of playing a game (the idea that a product can deteriorate over time to become unplayable is foreign to them).

It's going to take a long time to recondition people to the idea that they actually "can" have rights when it comes to video game purchases. And that while the developers can be your "friends", the moment you buy a game it becomes a business transaction. Friendship should have no relevancy. We pay, they deliver. If they can't deliver, we get our money back.

Good show.

Thank you, seriously, for taking the time to write that. This is how I feel and I was trying to think of the right words but they weren't coming to me atm. Probably because it's waaay past my bedtime lol.