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[jediyoshi]

I think it's more shameful to charge money for something that doesn't function correctly.

What were you up to for 50 hours?

 

[Juicy Bob]

What do you think is fair if a game described as a lengthy adventure title suddenly starts crashing every twenty minutes when you are fifty hours in though? That's what this OP/thread is hinging on. I think it's fair to offer a refund in such a case, as the product is sold with the expectation of being playable for as long as you please.

'Fifty hours' seems to rub people up the wrong way. It's lengthy enough to finish lots of games, but in the case of space sims, RPGs etc, it's often barely scratching the surface. I put well over 50+ hours into Monster Hunter over the first month, and if it was suddenly rendered practically unplayable due to instability only as I reached the endgame after weeks of play, I'd definitely be asking for a refund.

Everyone has a right to be unhappy about the crashes whatever version they have. If people genuinely are at that stage where they have the game in that state after getting that far in, of course they have a genuine case to make for a refund.

I am unhappy about the way the game has been released and I am unhappy with Hello Games for a lot of the same reasons other players are. However, I think we have people who have a reasonable case for a refund and we have some people who see an opportunity to get their money back even though they've spent a heck of a lot of time playing the game and enjoying what it is and some who just want to join in the pile on to Hello Games because they find that gratifying.

There have been unreasonable actions from Hello Games and there are now unreasonable actions by some of the people doing this, in my opinion. I'm not happy with any of it.

 

[PdotMichael]

Why should people even care that other people are able to refund their games after >50h of playing?

 

[Lagamorph]

Sent my refund request to gog.com so will see how things go. I'm expecting to have a fight on my hands but I want my £40 back. This game is barely worth a quarter of that as it is right now.

 

[DarkOneX]

This thread just makes me sad. I view video games as entertainment and a consumable product. I don't ask for a refund if I go see a movie that failed to live up to my expectations. Why should a game be any different, especially since a lot of people are just refunding because they didn't like the game and not due to technical issues.

Go look at most videos of the game before release, almost none of the stuff shown in the videos is in the final game, it's completely misleading and refunds are justified for that imo

 

[Not Spaceghost]

Look, let's be real here.

There are going to be people who obviously still enjoy the game despite any and all flaws everyone else sees in it. They are going to be the vocal defenders, for whatever reason, whether it be a guilty pleasure or a genuine belief that the game is better than we all see it to be.

When a game gets a real rough reaction, those people are going to hide in the OT because it's the only place they really have left to talk positively about a game. Sometimes a few of them will wander out and run the defense strat in every thread they find because they feel it necessary, but otherwise the OT is their home to talk about the "game".

So just let them be. Don't bother going into the OT and trying to convince them otherwise because it's a futile effort. And don't bother instigating it with anyone who wanders out in the other threads. They've already made up their minds that everyone else is just being "toxic" about the game, and nothing you do or say will change it.

Getting a refund after 50 hours might seem strange to people who've been conditioned to essentially having next to no rights after purchasing a game. Gamespot conditioned people to accept "trading" a game back in for a lesser value than they originally paid, Steam conditioned people for a long time to not get a refund whatsoever. PC games specifically have long had "You opened it, you can't return it" policies thanks to CD keys and the simplicity of piracy making it quite easy to install a game, then return it.

And since they're playing a game and not seeing a "problem" with it, they can't fathom why anyone would want a refund, or why that want for a refund could possibly come after almost 50 hours of playing a game (the idea that a product can deteriorate over time to become unplayable is foreign to them).

It's going to take a long time to recondition people to the idea that they actually "can" have rights when it comes to video game purchases. And that while the developers can be your "friends", the moment you buy a game it becomes a business transaction. Friendship should have no relevancy. We pay, they deliver. If they can't deliver, we get our money back.

Great post that hits the point head on.

Most people who are getting refunds are really only doing so because they're actually aware it's an option to them for the first time ever. Some one who has dumped 40+ hours into the game and requests a refund to me doesn't instantly scream to me "guy got his fun and is now getting his money back". What it signals is that people who buy games digitally are just not used to being able to get their money back after being burned, and NMS is a game that doesn't really show what it's going to be like for at least 7 hours of play.

Sure steam refunds have existed for a while now, but I doubt most people have ever used them within the first 2 hour period, I imagine there are people who have probably dumped 4-5 hours into something before realizing it wasn't for them or they just couldn't get it to work well consistently, or the game just suddenly had a huge issue that didn't show up earlier and felt stuck with a bad purchase.

Really I just see people who got burned, thought they had no other recourse and decided to at least keep playing so they felt like they didn't waste their money. Obviously there are people in the mix that are doing this without the best of intentions but I suspect they're in the minority.

If anything this whole debacle speaks volumes as to how bad consumers are treated when purchasing digital content.

This thread just makes me sad. I view video games as entertainment and a consumable product. I don't ask for a refund if I go see a movie that failed to live up to my expectations. Why should a game be any different, especially since a lot of people are just refunding because they didn't like the game and not due to technical issues.

Usually if a movie theater has technical issues during a film, everyone in that theater gets a free movie pass at the very least. When I went to see star trek into darkness the audio kept cutting out randomly, we finished the movie but the theater still gave everyone a free movie ticket.

 

[Angry Fork]

The multiplayer lies sucked but honestly Sony could've avoided all this by not trying to con people and selling it for $60 when they knew it wasn't that kind of game and should've been max $30.

 

[JaseC]

The multiplayer lies sucked but honestly Sony could've avoided all this by not trying to con people and selling it for $60 when they knew it wasn't that kind of game and should've been max $30.

Sony was just a marketing partner, not the publisher. I strongly doubt it had any influence on the price.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Any word on refunds off gog.com?

 

[Ran Echelon]

Wow, this has fallen a long way down on Steam's top sellers.

 

[Lagamorph]

Any word on refunds off gog.com?

I've just submitted a request, but given that it's Sunday I doubt I'll hear anything back from them today.
From looking at their own forums though they've been knocking some people back and telling them to wait for more patches, which isn't an acceptable answer to me at all.

 

[Speely]

Please tell me that's not a rape reference.

Please.

Jesus, no. The point is victim blaming in general. No one in their right mind would compare this to rape, nor do I see how anyone not specifically looking to be combative would infer that. Thanks for running with it in the OT, though. I'll just respond here to not shit up that thread (since I feel like people enjoying the game should have a thread as well.)

 

[GeNoMe]

I guess physical adopters are screwed then?
The return policy of the retailer I got NMS from won't accept the game back if it isn't sealed :/

 

[Gamezone]

I'm wondering what was going through people's mind when paying $60 for this game.

 

[JaseC]

I guess physical adopters are screwed then?
The return policy of the retailer I got NMS from won't accept the game back if it isn't sealed :/

Go back to the store with a seal that is holding the game in its mouth.

 

[A Grizzly Bear]

I'm wondering what was going through people's mind when paying $60 for this game.

That what they promised would be in the game?

 

[Dalibor_San]

Jesus, no. The point is victim blaming in general. No one in their right mind would compare this to rape, nor do I see how anyone not specifically looking to be combative would infer that. Thanks for running with it in the OT, though. I'll just respond here to not shit up that thread (since I feel like people enjoying the game should have a thread as well.)

Your mistake was actually taking him seriously, I have no idea how in his mind he got a rape reference from that comment ...frankly its beyond me.

I also cant believe people are looked down upon on for requesting a refund, especially if the problems don't start popping up until further in the game.

I tried to request a refund after 3 hours, automated steam support refused, I was disappointed, however I just told myself that from now on I'll never buy a game on day one again.

 

[GeNoMe]

Go back to the store with a seal that is holding the game in its mouth.

Great....Now all I need is a seal then :'(

All jokes aside. I'm gonna write up an email to customer services, and try to get a refund anyway.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Go back to the store with a seal that is holding the game in its mouth.

lol. Or wrap it in this...

 

[RawNuts]

Your mistake was actually taking him seriously, I have no idea how in his mind he got a rape reference from that comment ...frankly its beyond me.

It's what they do. I've seen them trying to shame people after inferring crazy things from their posts far too often.

 

[Jebusman]

Wow, this has fallen a long way down on Steam's top sellers.

Is it even in the Top Sellers list anymore? I can't seem to find it there or in the "Popular New Releases" section.

 

[Weebos]

I actually wanted a refund after the first day, but I bought a digital PS4 code through Amazon. I assume that is too complicated to reverse. Nice work for everyone else though.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Is it even in the Top Sellers list anymore? I can't seem to find it there or in the "Popular New Releases" section.

It is not. Reports from Reddit are that it has been removed.

I actually wanted a refund after the first day, but I bought a digital PS4 code through Amazon. I assume that is too complicated to reverse. Nice work for everyone else though.

People have had success refunding through Amazon even digitally. Give it a try.

 

[Card Boy]

How do i go about manually refunding a game? This thread has inspired me to refund Day Z.

edit: its in the op i see.

 

[Sleight of Jam]

I guess physical adopters are screwed then?
The return policy of the retailer I got NMS from won't accept the game back if it isn't sealed :/

Depends where you bought it I suppose. I got a refund for my physical copy.

 

[JaseC]

How do i go about manually refunding a game? This thread has inspired me to refund Day Z.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=215245563#post215245563

Edit: I'm assuming you bought it more than two weeks ago/have played it for more than two hours. I think Valve is more likely to respond with an auto-pilot deny if you submit a request using the refund system. Remember to explain yourself as you're asking for an exception to be made.

 

[Backfoggen]

I actually wanted a refund after the first day, but I bought a digital PS4 code through Amazon. I assume that is too complicated to reverse. Nice work for everyone else though.

It's a 2 minute thing using live chat. Not complicated at all.

 

[LewieP]

Whether you get a refund or not is typically up to the place you bought it from. Unless Hello instruct their retail partners to grant refunds, it'll be up to wherever you bought it from.

Same principal applies to the PC version and the PSN version. Valve have a standard refund policy that applies to all games, if you bought a Steam code from Amazon, Humble or any other digital distributor, you have to hope they grant you a refund, and if you bought it from GOG it's up to them too.

This is a good reason to purchase from places that have decent refund policies and track records for customer service in future.

I think in the coming years there will be increased pushback against Sony (and Microsoft and Nintendo) to have some kind of reasonable standard refund policy for digital purchases. Would probably be a good step towards increasing digital adoption, which is in these platform holders interest.

 

[Little Mons†er]

Why should people even care that other people are able to refund their games after >50h of playing?

Jealousy?

 

[FloatingDivider]

Really I just see people who got burned, thought they had no other recourse and decided to at least keep playing so they felt like they didn't waste their money. Obviously there are people in the mix that are doing this without the best of intentions but I suspect they're in the minority.

If anything this whole debacle speaks volumes as to how bad consumers are treated when purchasing digital content.

This so much of this. I was fairly sure I disliked the game by hour 5 but I realized my refund period was over and figured I should at least try to get some use out of it. Hell I didn't like hours 1-5 but the game and more importantly the pre-release marketing makes it seem like you need to progress for things to become interesting. I for one want to leave this dystopian future where I can be sold a bag of lies through feigned mystery and obfuscation without any recourse so I'm going to petition the fuck out of this refund process.

 

[SlickShoes]

How do i go about manually refunding a game? This thread has inspired me to refund Day Z.

edit: its in the op i see.

I loved that mod but that is the one game I'd love my money back for, it's still barely functional 3 years later.

At least it soured me on early access and I haven't bought a game in that state since, a total shambles.

 

[HariKari]

It is not. Reports from Reddit are that it has been removed.

Question now is did they hit some kind of automatic trigger based on number of refunds or bad reviews? Or did Valve say "naw" and take it down until they get a response from HG/Sony?

 

[Dalibor_San]

It's what they do. I've seen them trying to shame people after inferring crazy things from their posts far too often.

That is pretty scary....people are looked down upon for taking advantage of their consumer rights, it just doesn't make sense.

 

[SlickShoes]

Question now is did they hit some kind of automatic trigger based on number of refunds or bad reviews? Or did Valve say "naw" and take it down until they get a response from HG/Sony?

They don't take games down because they have bad reviews though, there are thousands of games on steam in a much worse state than NMS.

 

[HariKari]

They don't take games down because they have bad reviews though, there are thousands of games on steam in a much worse state than NMS.

It's not off the store, just hidden from the top sellers list. I suppose it's possible there were enough refunds that the sales of the game in a given day went negative, if Steam Spy is to be believed.

 

[Draper]

Just got my refund approved through Amazon.

Hey, at least the hype train was fun to ride.

 

[Maximo]

Nothing wrong with getting a refund for a game that is broken or isn't working as intended or advertised, time played is not nesicarily a indication of when a consumer is no longer able to get a refund, a bunch of reviewers didn't know the PS3 version of Skyrim was broken unless they played X amount of hours.

Some people are refunding out of spite/malice or jumping on the train to get a free refund for a game that while it isn't causing issues for them its just "dissapointing", just because a few people might abuse the system doesn't mean it should be taken away from customers.
I'm often amazed at how much people are willing to accept from a company thinking they can't do anything or bend over and accept it.

It is also a hard lesson for people to keep hype and expectations in check people whip themselves into a frenzy and get way in over themselves when it comes to cinematic/stage demos/trailers, people want to be part of the "zeitgeist" and feel like they are somehow missing out if they are not playing a game as soon as it releases. Not victim blaming just a reminder, haven't preordered a game in 8 years and I understand why some do it (sometimes it's cheaper to preorder or preorder extras) but there are plenty of reviewers and Youtubers willing to take the bullet and spend money to see if a game is worth it.

It certainly has been a rollercoaster watchibg on the sidelines having no hype for No Mans Sky and honestly wasn't surprised it didn't turn out like it's E3 Trailer. Hopefully this helps to wake customers up that they have a right to a refund if it's not working and that companies should be more mindful with not trying to screw customers over with carefully created Demos and sideshows that show time and time again they are nothing like the final product. Customers hype themselves up something fierce and part of the blame is on them, but the industry is built on it and companies profit from fanning the flames.

 

[Ran Echelon]

I still see it on the top sellers list (UK), just not in the top 10. You have to click see more and it's number 40 or something.

 

[Card Boy]

They don't take games down because they have bad reviews though, there are thousands of games on steam in a much worse state than NMS.

WB took down Arkham Knight which is a very high profile game.

 

[E-flux]

I got a refund on steam after 6 hours, i went in with little to no expectations other than liking stuff that Murray had worked before, Burnout 3, the Joe danger. I expected for a working space exploration game but the whole thing was a huge let down of barely working and fleshed out parts.

 

[SLV]

I actually wanted a refund after the first day, but I bought a digital PS4 code through Amazon. I assume that is too complicated to reverse. Nice work for everyone else though.

I did it like 3 days after games launch, and they gave me a refund.

 

[bobawesome]

Please tell me that's not a rape reference.

Please.

Fuck you. Seriously. You're the worst kind of person on this website, running immediately to the worst possible conclusion. Absolutely nothing in that post screamed "rape" or "rape apologist". You're dragging their name through the mud with that. What's wrong with you?

 

[//DEVIL//]

To be honest i kind think its a rip off and not fair for the developers. if you played many hours in the game, you shouldn't be able to get your full money back. that's not fair.

I didn't buy the game and I didn't like it from the first day the showed us the game. and i do not think its worth 20$ value even.

but people spending hours and hours on the game, then say ( its not worth it, i didn't like it) and try to get your money back ? cmon son

 

[Mononoaware]

I still can't understand the people saying things along the lines of "you played it for x amount of hours, its wrong to get expect a refund after playing their game that long."

What kind of bull shit mentality is this? like....are we supposed to be privileged for every hour we put into this game or something? For me, let's say I played it for 20 hours, which might be accurate. So, because I played it that long, I'm not entitled to a refund because...what? you think because I put that amount of time into it, that I got my money's worth and should be happy? bull shit. I already stated before, I put the time I did into it because I was desperately trying to find something good about the game. Something that might justify it's price, something that would lead me to believe anything the developers said prior to release.

So I played it for 20 hours...if I could get those 20 hours back, and have played a GOOD game, I gladly would let them keep the $60. However, since I can't get the time back, I want my money back. I was not sold something worth the price, and my time felt wasted. Time spent does not equal enjoyment. I don't pay the DMV, or the dentist, or the doctor's office for the time that I waste in the waiting room. If I had to pay money to waste my precious time, I wouldn't do it. Why the hell should developers of shitty games be expected to keep money for wasting my time with shit.

Sorry, kinda went on a tangent, and maybe some of what said is not compatible to the actual problem here, but I'm just trying to make my point clear. No man's sky sucked, and not just an endearing shitty game kind of way...it was not what they said it would be, and they lied every step of the way. I can understand some features that were announced near reveal not making it in the game, but up until the final months of release, they were spewing bull shit, and this game totally deserved to be taken to task for it.

 

[PdotMichael]

To be honest i kind think its a rip off and not fair for the developers. if you played many hours in the game, you shouldn't be able to get your full money back. that's not fair.

I didn't buy the game and I didn't like it from the first day the showed us the game. and i do not think its worth 20$ value even.

but people spending hours and hours on the game, then say ( its not worth it, i didn't like it) and try to get your money back ? cmon son

It's not your business if Steam, Sony, Amazon and all the other companies are okay with it for No Man's Sky.

 

[GrandHarrier]

Amazon is going to accept my collectors edition return. Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I still can't understand the people saying things along the lines of "you played it for x amount of hours, its wrong to get expect a refund after playing their game that long."

What kind of bull shit mentality is this? like....are we supposed to be privileged for every hour we put into this game or something? For me, let's say I played it for 20 hours, which might be accurate. So, because I played it that long, I'm not entitled to a refund because...what? you think because I put that amount of time into it, that I got my money's worth and should be happy? bull shit. I already stated before, I put the time I did into it because I was desperately trying to find something good about the game. Something that might justify it's price, something that would lead me to believe anything the developers said prior to release.

So I played it for 20 hours...if I could get those 20 hours back, and have played a GOOD game, I gladly would let them keep the $60. However, since I can't get the time back, I want my money back. I was not sold something worth the price, and my time felt wasted. Time spent does not equal enjoyment. I don't pay the DMV, or the dentist, or the doctor's office for the time that I waste in the waiting room. If I had to pay money to waste my precious time, I wouldn't do it. Why the hell should developers of shitty games be expected to keep money for wasting my time with shit.

Sorry, kinda went on a tangent, and maybe some of what said is not compatible to the actual problem here, but I'm just trying to make my point clear. No man's sky sucked, and not just an endearing shitty game kind of way...it was not what they said it would be, and they lied every step of the way. I can understand some features that were announced near reveal not making it in the game, but up until the final months of release, they were spewing bull shit, and this game totally deserved to be taken to task for it.

this is fair, imo.

 

[Abylim]

To be honest i kind think its a rip off and not fair for the developers. if you played many hours in the game, you shouldn't be able to get your full money back. that's not fair.

I didn't buy the game and I didn't like it from the first day the showed us the game. and i do not think its worth 20$ value even.

but people spending hours and hours on the game, then say ( its not worth it, i didn't like it) and try to get your money back ? cmon son

Good thing thats not whats happening here. The game is crashing left right and center. Kyoufu, and many others have demonstrated how frequently it crashes.

I myself had only at worst 8 crashes in one day, but that is a major issue.

I lost quite a bit of time with those crashes, and it greatly hampers my enjoyment of the game when its working.

I shelfed the game myself because everytime I try to goto a new star system, it crashes. I tried going to different ones too, still crashes. It may have been fixed in this patch, but I'm done.

When we buy a game, we have a legal expectation of it working, when it doesnt work, be it at 2 hours, 20 or 200 hours, its ok to ask for a refund.

I have read this entire thread, and its baffling that people still dont get this.

EDIT: I didnt ask for a refund, fwiw.

 

[HowZatOZ]

Well I am glad people are getting their money back. Hopefully this gains traction and sends a message to the industry at large that shady practices will not be tolerated.

Unfortunately, I won't be getting my money back as I bought it on GoG. Even if I bought it on Steam, I wouldn't get my money back as I did not pre-order the game. I knew pretty much nothing about this game, so I didn't fall for the apparent "lies". Just decided to give it a try after watching a stream for like 30 mins on launch day. If i had just watched the stream for a couple more hours, probably would have seen how shallow this game was and would have dodged a bullet.

Oh well, live and learn...

I got a refund on GoG. They offer full refunds up to like 31 days of purchase or something.

 

[redcrayon]

"You were asking for it, believing the developer like that."

Please tell me that's not a rape reference.

Please.

I really don't get how the second poster is getting away with having wandered off and saying the first is making references to rape apologists in the OT thread. That's disgusting and a completely wilful misinterpretation.