Nah, I would be pretty hard on him considering he just behaved like a huge asshole.
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WOW OMG: Steam is refunding No Man's Sky even if you played more then 2 hours
- Thread starter Tony Iron Man Stark
- Start date
Nah, I would be pretty hard on him considering he just behaved like a huge asshole.
Petrae
Member
He "doesn't have time" for people who don't agree with him. Typical social media behavior-- drop a bomb, then duck & cover.
Remember, he "values his time highly". Fuck your time.
Blocked me as well. Simply said that if retailers are allowing it, even they understand NMS mislead people and don't want to wade in those waters.
But hey, good to know that he exposed himself. He probably has had this attitude for a long time. Carried it at Sony and not carries it at his current developer. Nice.
Yea, it crashes a lot, especially as you get further in. I know at least one friend on Neogaf who said the game got to the point after enough hours that it crashes so much it's unplayable (PS4 version).
Beyond that, though, the game barely resembles the grandios picture the devs painted and doesn't contain many features they either hinted at, showed in footage, or described as being in the game.
All in all it's just a big shit show.
Trojan
Member
I would not word it like he did, but a person who refunds a game after 20/30/50 hours of play should look in the mirror and let some shame wash over. There might be some edge-case scenarios where it could make sense but basically it's a slap in the face to devs after playing it that much.
If you go to a shitty movie and then afterwards demand your money back from the theatre because you didn't like it, you're not a thief but you are gaming the system and being a jackass. If you do that more than once THEN I would call you a thief/dirtbag/whatever.
I think Shahid is commenting more on the pack mentality of "hey I got a refund when I shouldn't have, here's a post on the Internet for how to do it". Shahid's entire time with Sony was fostering Dev relations and being in the corner of smaller devs. So his comment doesn't surprise me because he knows the blood, sweat, and tears that go into a game for a small studio.
Have your ever seen a drug commercial? Doctors prescribe drugs all the time that don't work. Antibiotics for one are not guaranteed to work. I can't exactly run a pharmacy telling people this antibiotic may or may not work. Nobody would take medicine otherwise.
The correct analogy is if you're watching a TV boxset and at around disc 5 it just stops working. Not that the plot becomes unenjoyable, but that the video doesn't actually appear on the screen. These are not consumable items. They are expected to keep working.
Slap in the face to the devs? Have you been following what's been happening with No Man's Sky in any way shape or form? Do you think Hello Games are worthy of any respect or consideration at this point?
Holy shit, fuck that guy. I've been mostly quiet and patient despite being EXTREMELY disappointed in my purchase of NMS, but you know what else is stealing? Bait and switching your product on a service that normally doesn't allow refunds.
travisbickle
Member
It doesn't work like that. If you're dissatisfied with the product get a refund. The decisions to change things are made by the developer for a myriad of reasons and some of the original promises may not even be possible in the game.
dano1
A Sheep
For the new page since people seem to think consumers should put up with this shit:
All I noticed is that on the same day you tried to play the game and you had a bunch of errors minutes apart.
Obviously after 50++ hours of play this wasn't the norm! Karma will now be activated.
He always has been. Remember him (and by Proxy Adam from Extended Play/X-play) going "GIVE ME 1080P60FPS OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" when the new consoles were launching? And then shock and horror they do under that (720p or 980p for 60FPS or EVEN 30FPS!) and then they back-tracked with "b-b-b-but I meant Indie games!!!!!!!!"?
Fuck the PR machine.
Gamezone
Gold Member
I replied:
If you are marketing gameplay and features that doesn`t exist, you are no better than a thief.
I was blocked within 5 seconds.
thomasmahler
Moon Studios
If they ran out of time and would've told people that they're shipping it with some cut features that they plan to implement later down the road, then it would've been absolutely fine.
But they didn't do that. They openly lied to all the journalists, on Colbert, in every interview even after they went gold about features that never even made it into game, acting like they're totally in the game and they're awesome. Sean Murray is the definition of a Snake-Oil Salesman to me and I'm glad consumers get their rights enforced here.
An Ex-Sony manager defending them, to me, is absolutely disgusting. You're not siding with the party that fucked everyone over and ran as soon as they got their payday, this is just way fucked up.
Castef
Banned
Deaf Spacker
Memb
Oh Jesus I think I remember that actually.
Think this through. Once you've reached the point that the game is crashing every few minutes, how are you supposed to get out of that? Keep playing through 3 minute chunks for another 10 hours until hopefully it starts working again? Delete the save file you put 50 hours of work into?
No man's Sky is game where you can spend several Hours just on the first planet and System. So the point where you realize that the stuff they have shown in trailer and screenshots can be very late.
We got Lucky that 2 players where very early on the same planet. While everyone start to wonder why the two couldn't see each other, Sean Murray and Hello Games acted like everything worked as intended.
Probably a lot of people thought there were past the point they could ask for a refund and calling those people Thiefs is laughable. My tolerance for a developer who is acting like everything is fine also isn't that high.
We got Lucky that 2 players where very early on the same planet. While everyone start to wonder why the two couldn't see each other, Sean Murray and Hello Games acted like everything worked as intended.
Probably a lot of people thought there were past the point they could ask for a refund and calling those people Thiefs is laughable. My tolerance for a developer who is acting like everything is fine also isn't that high.
Sun Bather
Member
That Shahid guy is absolutely hilarious, in a bad way.
Yep, his mentality of "you don't own a game, you own a licence to play the game" while correct doesn't mean once we but the licence we're stuck with it forever and have to put up with a broken game that crashes constantly.
There are laws in place to protect us from this kind of shit, but he as a dev defends and condones releasing games that are broken. I used to enjoy his interviews and he always came across as a genuinely good guy. He can fuck right off now though.
Gen.Grievous
Member
I have zero interest in this game or the devs but playing 50 hours and getting a refund is bullshit. You should only get a refund if the game does not work anymore at all after playing such a long time. Apparently you didn't give a shit about all it's faults and promised features because you spend 50 freaking hours playing it.
Valve's role in this is also questionable. I doubt they would do this with a big publisher that can screw them over with future titles. Arkham Knight was a mess and if I remember correctly refunds were only given after the publisher announced they would grant them.
Valve's role in this is also questionable. I doubt they would do this with a big publisher that can screw them over with future titles. Arkham Knight was a mess and if I remember correctly refunds were only given after the publisher announced they would grant them.
SolidChamp
Banned
His move includes the block button.
Sun Bather
Member
How about if you bought the movie, and then it then stopped working after it had been watched 10 times?
Is anybody bothering to read the people or posts that they are replying to. Honestly I just give up. This thread is a disaster
Trojan
Member
I get some people really hate the game and the devs - which is fine - but they can come to a refund decision in a reasonable amount of time. Even 6 hours could make sense, but this is about 50 hours. Doesn't matter what dev you are, that's a slap in the face when you use any content for that amount and then ask for a refund. This is less about Hello Games and more about people totally abusing refund policies with dozens of hours in a game.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Hopefully this is a lesson for some, whether or not they get a refund after however many of hours of play to not preorder or buy at launch when a game is very much not a "sure thing" and there aren't many reviews/impressions available.
Also, people wanting refunds after a bunch of hours of play should probably stick with buying physical when possible as at least there you have the option to sell your copy and recoup some costs even if retailers say no to refunds. Especially if you can buy with the 20% discounts of Amazon Prime or Best Buy GCU you can usually get most of your money back if you sell near launch.
If we want developers to not misrepresent their games, not ship glitchy broken games and so on we need to vote with our wallets and not buy games en masse until they're out and getting good reviews/impressions that make it clear they deliver on their promises and run well. However many refunds get issued or not, that won't have near the impact as if people had waited until the poor reviews and impressions came out and the game in turn sold like shit.
Also, people wanting refunds after a bunch of hours of play should probably stick with buying physical when possible as at least there you have the option to sell your copy and recoup some costs even if retailers say no to refunds. Especially if you can buy with the 20% discounts of Amazon Prime or Best Buy GCU you can usually get most of your money back if you sell near launch.
If we want developers to not misrepresent their games, not ship glitchy broken games and so on we need to vote with our wallets and not buy games en masse until they're out and getting good reviews/impressions that make it clear they deliver on their promises and run well. However many refunds get issued or not, that won't have near the impact as if people had waited until the poor reviews and impressions came out and the game in turn sold like shit.
I'm really glad to hear a really respected person such as you say all of this because it's exactly how I feel. Most indie devs I know on Neogaf seem to pretty much feel the same way about this.
From ultra hype to extreme backlash. People probably predicted this during the ridiculous hype years ago (you can go anywhere do anything with 100s of hours of procedurally generated levels and enemies!), but damn
Even though they lied about everything, if the game wasn't crashing then at least there would be harder to justify returns. But crashing on top of it.... I can understand wanting to return
Even though they lied about everything, if the game wasn't crashing then at least there would be harder to justify returns. But crashing on top of it.... I can understand wanting to return
What are you talking about? If you have waited for a few days to read reviews and impressions you would have known ALL of the issues, these aren't secret issues that you couldn't have possibly known until you yourself bought it. Especially in an industry where people keep getting burned by pre-ordering its products and never learn from it. Don't buy a game blindly, play it for a good week, and then decide it's bad or not worth the money, that's just plain stupid.
Again, if the game is filled with game breaking bugs or crashes then you deserve a refund, HOWEVER, if you decided you don't like the game after good 8 hours or so, you shouldn't be entitled to a refund. That's just how I see it.
What if I'm disappointed that the original promises turned to be false (biggest one being factions and non rotating planets) but still found the 30 hours I played it enjoyable?
I had some bad crashes during that time, but the gameplay was still engaging enough to make me sink 30 hours into it.
People still think this is about the time/enjoyment a game has provided...
That doesn't matter if after some arbitrary amount of hours (which depend on how fast you explore) your game starts crashing left and right and effectively prevents you from progressing and enjoying the rest of the content you paid for.
That doesn't matter if after some arbitrary amount of hours (which depend on how fast you explore) your game starts crashing left and right and effectively prevents you from progressing and enjoying the rest of the content you paid for.
Seen that lol. Oh well. Like others have said, he's exposed himself as a turd that defends illegal and shitty practices. I also fully agree with you. Sean Murray is nothing but a 2 bit thief.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Yeah, given his proximity to the whole thing he should stay out of this. For HG and Sony's sake, his personal vilification of customers before either party has made an official statement makes them look worse.
If a game self destructs into a coaster 3 weeks after you purchase it, it doesn't matter whether you spent that 3 weeks playing every waking moment or just dabbling.
I'd say the same goes if you went 3 weeks searching for a virtual carrot on a stick that was advertised to be in the game and really isn't, but I understand for the sake of this thread that they are two distinct scenarios.
Most of these people seem to be under the impression that the refund was because the game wasn't fun anymore, not because it stopped working.
They are repeatedly ignoring posts that clarify the situation to post more nonsense about the guy behaving unethically and being entitled.
Backfoggen
Banned
If you're taking people's $60 with promises you don't keep, you're a thief.
See, I can make dope comments like this too.
See, I can make dope comments like this too.
thomasmahler
Moon Studios
He's not. He's just wrong. It doesn't matter how much time people spent with the game, the fact of the matter is that Hello Games openly and intentionally lied to everyone to boost the hype-machine for their game. What they did constitutes as fraud, nothing more, nothing less.
Consumers here bought this product and hoped they'd get what was advertised, only to find out that it's not even 50% of what was advertised. How exactly is it wrong then to get your money back?
Wickerbasket
Member
If I use my TV for 50 hours and it breaks, am I a thief if I take it back to the store for a refund?
If something I bought is faulty by design, then I deserve a refund. Games aren't special, if you release a broken product then the customer should get a refund.
And you know what? Depending on the type of game, 50 hours isn't that much. I put more than 50 hours into Diablo 3 at launch only to find that the game was a broken mess at the end, the part where the real game was supposed to begin. Sometimes you need to spend a lot of time with a game before you realise how badly you've been conned.
Deaf Spacker
Memb
Shahid had no response when I said that consumers were exercising their rights to a refund.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Asking for a refund after playing for 50hrs is taking the piss pure and simple.
gunslikewhoa
Member
Do those commercials and doctors say otherwise? Are they claiming that their drugs will work 100% of the time for 100% of the population? Are they claiming that their drugs do things that they don't do?
A) No? Then I don't see the issue here.
B) Yes? They go to prison for this.
Okay. So do you lie to people regarding their efficacy? Do you guarantee that they will work?
This isn't complicated. Sean Murray lied about his game.
This confuses me:
I'd agree, if only it wasn't marketed as one.
https://twitter.com/shahidkamal/status/769895202840518656@shahidkamal said:
I'd agree, if only it wasn't marketed as one.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
It's not, but playing 50 hours of something to get to that point is. Get a refund at 5 hours, 50 just means you wanted to have your cake and eat it too.
I played the game for 8 hrs actually doing this and found nothing. Then started to get more and more crashes as I upgraded my suit inventory size. It's basically day 1 Destiny all over again. The game is a lie.