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[Antiochus]

A excellent piece by the WSJ regarding the attitudes and expectations of young 20 somethings regarding whether to buy health insurance on the new exchanges.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324263404578613700273320428.html

The success of the new health-care law rides in large measure on whether young, healthy people like Gabe Meiffren, a cook at a Korean-Hawaiian food cart, decide to give up a chunk of disposable income to pay for insurance.
After getting a peek at rates being offered for fall, the 25-year-old man said he would have to peel back "expenses that aren't life or death, like records and concert tickets," or whiskey sours at the Horse Brass Pub down the street.Mr. Meiffren, who hasn't seen a doctor in more than a year, isn't sure buying insurance is worth it, despite a federal penalty for failing to buy coverage, starting in January.
President Barack Obama's signature initiative rests on what Mr. Meiffren and his peers choose. If flocks of relatively healthy 20- and 30-somethings buy coverage, their insurance premiums will help offset the costs of newly insured older or sicker people who need more care. If they don't, prices across the U.S. could spike.
Traditional insurance industry tools for managing risk—such as charging sick customers higher prices—are banned under the law, raising the importance of attracting young, healthy buyers.
The new law employs a carrot-and-stick approach: Federal subsidies will be available to some lower-income workers. And most of those who ignore the law next year must pay an annual penalty, based on income, that begins at $95 and climbs dramatically in the years that follow.
Interviews here with more than two dozen single workers of modest income between 24 and 31 years old suggest that insurance plans will be a hard sell. Subsidies for 26-year-old workers range from $118 a month for someone earning under $16,000 to less than $1 a month for one earning $26,500, according to an analysis of insurance data.
For Mr. Meiffren, the cheapest available insurance plan he could buy with the subsidies would cost him $116 a month, with a $6,350 annual deductible. His subsidy would total $14 a month, based on his $25,000 annual income."I'm healthy, so it's not in the budget," Mr. Meiffren said after the lunch rush. He lost a full-time job—and his insurance—last fall. He said he moved to Portland from Los Angeles in March, looking for "a better vibe" and a lower cost of living.
Nationwide, there are 11.6 million people ages 18 to 34 who are uninsured, according to the Department of Health and Human Services. The federal government's challenge this fall will be getting them to buy health-care coverage, which many consider a luxury they can do without. Hospitals already must treat all emergencies, and uninsured patients are responsible for the bills.New insurance company filings approved by Oregon regulators this month offer a first look at the actual price tags for individual consumers, who can begin shopping for insurance in October through new marketplaces called exchanges.
Insurers set different rates in each state for plans they will be offering through the exchanges. Some states are running their own exchanges; others will be run by the federal government.
Portland could be an early measure of how young people will respond to the new coverage requirement. While some states have published partial or preliminary data, Oregon is among the first to set final rates.
Roughly 100,000 of Oregon's 560,000 uninsured people are expected to buy individual coverage on the exchanges. The state's new marketplace still must certify the plans.
"For healthy young people, I believe that these new rates are not likely to be attractive enough" compared with the no-coverage penalty, said John W. Rowe, chief executive of the health insurer Aetna AET -1.97% until 2006 and a health policy professor at Columbia University, speaking broadly about the marketplaces.
A Wall Street Journal analysis of the state's insurance data shows a mixed bag for this crucial demographic. Rates for many of the more than 100 plans available to individual shoppers in Portland are less than expected by many skeptics, who predicted the law would send prices soaring, the Journal found. But so are the federal premium subsidies.
The subsidies disappear altogether for single people under age 30 earning much more than $26,000 because of the way the law pegs them to specific plans on each state's exchange. That income threshold in Portland is nearly $20,000 lower than expected under the law, which calls for people earning up to about $46,000 to be eligible for subsidies.
The subsidies for young single people were unexpectedly low here in part because one insurer, Moda Health, offered two inexpensive plans that set a benchmark for the subsidies. It is a strategy that could attract price-sensitive shoppers. Experts said insurers elsewhere might also seize on the approach.
As directed by the law, insurers will offer three levels of coverage through the exchanges, from minimal benefits, called bronze, to midlevel plans, or silver, to robust coverage, gold.
All the plans will cover such benefits as hospital services and maternity care. While some plans can have deductibles of more than $5,000, consumers' total out-of-pocket costs are capped at less than $6,350 for single people. Some low-income people will see additional subsidies to reduce their deductible.
People under age 30 can buy bare-bones plans that only cover catastrophic illness that might be cheaper than bronze plans, but they come with higher deductibles and no subsidies.
Premiums will rise for some young people, compared with current rates, while generally falling for older and sicker people. Currently, a 26-year-old Oregon resident can pay less than $100 a month for coverage that carries deductible levels as high as $10,000.
In the new plans, prices for a 26-year-old nonsmoker will range from $133 a month for a bronze-level plan offered by Moda Health—which has a $6,350 deductible and $45 copayments—to about $305 for gold-level plans sponsored by Trillium Community Health Plans that have a $1,300 deductible and $20 copayment.
"I'd love to get insurance," said Tom Daly, a 28-year-old who opened WTF Bikes in southeast Portland in 2009. After discussing details of the law, Mr. Daly said he would probably pay the no-coverage fine next year, but buy coverage before 2016, when the penalty rises.Mr. Daly pointed out another challenge for the government. Young people, he said, haven't paid attention to the new law.
"I wake up, come here and work, go home, watch an episode of 'Battlestar Galactica,' and go to sleep. That's my life," he said. "I don't have time to stop and spend three hours to figure out how it is going to affect me."
A White House-backed campaign to spread the word to young people is ramping up for fall, federal officials said.
One tactic is to remind young people they aren't invincible in such scenarios as, "Oh my God! I hurt my knee in a pickup basketball game," said Julie Bataille, the health department official overseeing the campaign.
Officials running Oregon's marketplace, called Cover Oregon, unveiled a $3 million ad campaign featuring a performance by Laura Gibson, a local folk singer. She penned an anthem with the refrain "live long in Oregon."
"There's this theory that it's going to be impossible to convince them, but there's a lot of young people who think it's important to have insurance," said Amy Fauver, chief communications officer for Oregon's federally funded, state-run marketplace.
For some people, however, the math doesn't work. The $29,000 annual pay that Jonathan Scarboro expects to earn this year as a $14-an-hour, full-time mechanic at Velocult—a combination bike shop and cafe-bar—is too high for a subsidy. The cheapest plan would cost him $147 a month and carry a $6,350 deductible for many services, including hospital care. For $172 a month, he could buy a plan with a $2,500 deductible. (comment: Oops !)
"I'm not going to pay for that," said Mr. Scarboro, age 30. "It breaks down to: Can I afford it? And, am I getting my money's worth?"
The uninsured can get care at pay-by-the-visit urgent care centers and clinics. "I've already seen quite a few" young, lower-wage workers, said Carolyn Nowosielski, a nurse practitioner at the Oregon Health & Science University clinic that here opened in June.
For many people earning less money, the new coverage looks like a bargain. Michelle Taylor, 26 years old, makes a bit more than $17,000 a year from her new photo-booth rental business, HappyMatic Photo Booth.
She is eligible for a $103-a-month subsidy and could buy the cheapest silver plan for as little as $52 after the subsidy. A separate subsidy under the law also limits the deductible for low-income people. For Ms. Taylor, that will yield an annual deductible as low as $100 a year.
"That sounds awesome to me," she said. "My parents would be so pleased."

The website also features a great interactive on personal examples as to how the actual income based subsidy will (or in many cases, will not) work:

http://projects.wsj.com/documents/PORTLAND1307/

Mr. Meiffren lost insurance along with a full-time restaurant job last September. Since then, he's been uninsured. "It just hasn't been in the budget," he says. A $50-a-month policy might be a good deal in his view.
But, under the law, Mr. Meiffren will pay much more. His income limits the amount of subsidies he could receive in Oregon to about $14 a month. That means, for the cheapest bronze-level coverage option, he'd still have to pay $116 a month.
"It's not something I could do currently, but it's not the worst thing ever," he said. To keep coverage offered by his former employer, he said, he'd have to pay north of $400 a month. To afford insurance, he says he'd have to peel back "expenses that aren't life or death, like records and concert tickets" or trips to the bar down the street for whiskey sours./

Jonathan Scarboro, 30 Bike mechanic, $29,000 a year
A relatively higher earner by the standards of Portland's bike culture, Mr. Scarboro makes too much to qualify for federal subsidies at all--but not enough that buying coverage is a no-brainer. The lowest-cost option would run him $147 a month. A mid-level plan that covers more services would cost $240, while an array of other options fall in between.
His reaction to those premiums: "One hundred dollars to $150 would be reasonable," he said. But, faced with the annual deductibles tied to those plans--between $2,500 and $5,000 for most services--his math quickly changed. "I'm not going to pay for that," Mr. Scarboro said. "It breaks down to, can I afford it, and am I getting my money's worth? At a certain point, you expect health insurance to be, like, you can go to the doctor."
Mr. Scarboro, a Florida native who moved to Portland last year and plans to stay, says the flexible slice of his budget includes about $200 a month in spending for beer, bicycle parts and coffee. He saves another $150 to $250 a month, but insurance would eclipse that, he said.

Erin Weaver, 30, Waitress, $17,000 a year
When Erin Weaver's college-sponsored insurance runs out in September, she'll be on the market again for new coverage. The cheapest plan she can find now runs about $250 a month.
"My parents are all, like, you have to have health insurance," she said, "but that's a car payment." Her relatively low income--$17,000 or so a year earned from waiting tables--means she'll see prices fall next year dramatically because of subsidies. At that level, she'd be able to buy a silver-grade health plan for as little as $46 a month, after factoring in a $123-a-month subsidy on the exchange, well below her $150-a-month target price.
"I would not even think about $50 a month," she said. "There's the what-if-factor: What if something really horrible happens."
Additional subsidies meant to limit cost-sharing for people with low wages would shred the $2,500 deductible that come with such plans to about $100 for the year--essentially turning a midlevel health plan to the proverbial Cadillac of health insurance.

Brian Caplener, 26 Bar-back, $25,000 a year
Many young people vacillated between buying and not-buying as they parsed the details of the new offerings for the first time, weighing price against the value and their perceptions of the utility of coverage.
Mr. Caplener expects to earn about $25,000 next year. His subsidy would be worth only $6 a month, meaning that the cheapest bronze grade offering would cost him $116 a month.
"It's reasonable in the sense that I have plenty of money to spend on things that aren't necessary," said Mr. Caplener, who works at Prost!, on Mississippi Avenue in North Portland. "I probably spend more than $120 a month going out drinking," he said.
But Mr. Caplener wanted to know what he could get for that price. The cheapest bronze-grade plan comes with an annual deductible of more than $5,000. A silver plan would run him at least $138 a month, or more, and come with a $2,500 deductible despite those subsidies.
"I couldn't afford to pay $120 a month, and if something happened, still have to pay $5,000," he said.

There are three main problems with Obamacare as it now stands;

1. We were told at the beginning that almost everyone's insurance premiums would drop if not at least stabilize, and that generous subsidies will be given up to a good income level. Then the message got switched that certain upper middle classes will have to pay more. Then it was the young subsidizing the old. Now the message seems to the young and healthy with incomes of barely $35K a year are expected to significantly subsidize their peers making $15K a year. Nearly all the young people 2-3 years were expecting a uniform decrease in their costs AND major subsidies for them.

2. In any case, trying to rely on those making ~$30K a year to prop up the system is folly. Paying $100 4-5 years ago was already a burden, now trying to pay $150-200 with a $5000+ deductible is even worse, and they get little to no subsidies whatsoever. The economy has not improved, wages are stagnant and many cases undergoing deflation, and its expected those people have plenty to spare?

3. Finally, the fatal flaw is that it assumes that merely slowing down the cost inflation, or perhaps somewhat stabilizing it, will patch up the healthcare system. Unfortunately, one ultimately needs a income of sorts in order to pay for any of those costs, no mater the level of subsidies or cheapness of the premiums. Even more unfortunately, as global economic forces and technological "progress" continues to ravage incomes and employment levels, the healthy core of payers will continue to decrease until this current Obamacare system is no longer tenable, because there will no longer be any sort of stable working/middle classes capable of paying even a modicum amount to float it.

 

[Stet]

I've always trusted the WSJ before to be fair and balanced when it comes to--

 

[jamesinclair]

Beer...

Or extended-warranty-corporate-profit-making-ripoff-scheme


Hmmmm

Ill take the beers please.

 

[sk3]

$6000 deductible is a joke. It's basically disaster insurance. You will never use it unless you get cancer or lose a limb.

Most of these people will pay the fine I think. Nothing will change much (except prices still increasing) and in maybe another decade there will be a push for single payer.

 

[I am Michael Bolton]

I've always trusted the WSJ before to be fair and balanced when it comes to--

Annnnnnnnnnnnd we're done.

 

[I am Michael Bolton]

$6000 deductible is a joke. It's basically disaster insurance. You will never use it unless you get cancer or lose a limb.

Most of these people will pay the fine I think. Nothing will change much (except prices still increasing) and in maybe another decade there will be a push for single payer.

Current deductibles for individual policies range anywhere from the high $1000's to $10000. Many customers of mine buy policies with $5000-10000 deductibles. Realize that even high deductible plans include 100% coverage for preventative care.

 

[antonz]

How much of America actually has disposable income. Most live off plastic

 

[Coins]

I'm not paying for shit as long as I can.

 

[I am Michael Bolton]

I'm not paying for shit as long as I can.

When something happens to you and you're in need of health insurance, you'll be paying much more than $200-300 a month.

 

[bill0527]

Absolutely no surprise at all. Obamacare has been a disaster from the get-go. If young people don't jump in and pay their fair share, rates will skyrocket for the sickest among us, and we will be back to square fucking one.

 

[I am Michael Bolton]

Absolutely no surprise at all. Obamacare has been a disaster from the get-go. If young people don't jump in and pay their fair share, rates will skyrocket for the sickest among us, and we will be back to square fucking one.

the ACA has been a disaster from the get-go? How so? Considering that the key part of the bill hasn't even taken effect yet what exactly has been disastrous?

 

[jchap]

Buy that insurance to pay for old people's care. Seemingly similar to social security.

 

[Kai Dracon]

A note for people in other countries:

If your health care system prevents individuals at point of contact with the system from going bankrupt due to a sprained ankle, and the entire mess we have here in America fills you with a sense of religious terror, don't worry.

That just means you're still sane.

 

[Ripclawe]

Young people are invincible plus you are not going to get denied care and if you don't qualify you get taxpayer subsidies to pay for you afterwards. Pay the small fine is the better choice.

But Mr. Caplener wanted to know what he could get for that price. The cheapest bronze-grade plan comes with an annual deductible of more than $5,000. A silver plan would run him at least $138 a month, or more, and come with a $2,500 deductible despite those subsidies.
"I couldn't afford to pay $120 a month, and if something happened, still have to pay $5,000," he said.

and there is that part.

 

[Antiochus]

I've always trusted the WSJ before to be fair and balanced when it comes to--

Objections are best directed to countering the validity of the data this article presents (for example, perhaps the subsidies do end taking care alot more of those cases than thought or those making $35K a year do get subsidies that can eliminate a majority of their premiums after all), and perhaps whether the interviews and personal descriptions of those individuals are accurate (i.e. they're lying about how poor they are). Trying to dig up another irrelevant graphic does not achieve that.

 

[I am Michael Bolton]

Young people are invincible plus you are not going to get denied care and if you don't qualify you get taxpayer subsidies to pay for you afterwards. Pay the small fine is the better choice.



and there is that part.

If folks decide to not buy coverage within the open enrollment period, get sick, and decide to buy coverage outside of open enrollment they'll be sold a temporary plan that doesn't meet the IRS conditions for full coverage. That means they'll still have to pay the tax penalty. Plus the temp coverage will be extremely expensive.

 

[Coins]

When something happens to you and you're in need of health insurance, you'll be paying much more than $200-300 a month.

Ill take my chances. I'm not paying into something that is going to be ever changing. Republicans will gain power back next election cycle and change shit, then the Dems, and so on. Obamacare is going to fail.

 

[digita1alchemy]

I know fuck-all about insurance or health care, but isn't the problem that so many people have health insurance? Why is the solution to have even more people buy health insurance? Isn't the problem that health care is so ridiculously expensive that no one can afford it, so they have to buy insurance in the first place? So, rather than make health care more affordable, they're just trying to get everyone on health insurance? That seems to me like propping up a broken system rather than fixing anything. But again, I really don't understand any of this.

 

[Antiochus]

Buy that insurance to pay for old people's care. Seemingly similar to social security.

Unfortunately that was not how it was sold 2-3 years ago, or what the young were expecting

 

[Vox-Pop]

Hopefully I get a subsidy, if not I am screwed.

 

[I am Michael Bolton]

Ill take my chances. I'm not paying into something that is going to be ever changing. Republicans will gain power back next election cycle and change shit, then the Dems, and so on. Obamacare is going to fail.

What do you expect the GOP to do if they take back the Senate and keep the House? You do realize they need a SUPER majority to repeal right? Plus to have the White House. Right? The ACA better not fail because it's the best we're getting for a long time.

 

[jamesinclair]

Buy that insurance to pay for old people's care. Seemingly similar to social security.

Yup, sounds like some kind of twisted ponzi scheme

"Hey kids, pays $200 a month into something you don't need and won't use, so that people who spent their life smoking, not exercising and eating fast food all day can get expensive surgeries! Oh, and I wouldn't do the same, you probably won't get any benefit like that in 40 years!"

 

[Lich_King]

30k a year are the new 1%

 

[Coins]

What do you expect the GOP to do if they take back the Senate and keep the House? You do realize they need a SUPER majority to repeal right? Plus to have the White House. Right? The ACA better not fail because it's the best we're getting for a long time.

They don't have to repeal it. They can pass laws that affect it.

 

[Chumly]

Obamacare is the best thing that has happened to health insurance since Medicare was implemented. There are things that we could make better but unfortunately people only seemed concerned about sabotaging it.

 

[I am Michael Bolton]

They don't have to repeal it. They can pass laws that affect it.

Not without the President's signature they can't. Also, have you not read the recent statements by many GOP Senators and leaders of the conservative party? To stop trying to defund the ACA because elections matter. The ACA is here to stay.

You're listening to the GOP House members and Tea Party folks too much. The GOP will not get a super majority in 2014 in the Senate, they may not even get back the Senate at all. Dems will gain on the GOP in the House also. Obama is here for two more years too and by 2016 the law will be so ingrained into society, well, good luck trying to sabotage it. People aren't going to be willing to go back to being denied due to preexisting conditions, going back to annual/lifetime limits, going back to not having maternity covered, going back to not staying on their parents plan until they're 26.

 

[BigGreenMat]

Yup, sounds like some kind of twisted ponzi scheme

"Hey kids, pays $200 a month into something you don't need and won't use, so that people who spent their life smoking, not exercising and eating fast food all day can get expensive surgeries! Oh, and I wouldn't do the same, you probably won't get any benefit like that in 40 years!"

You really think they won't use it? They will try not to, but basically one small injury and they will be happy they have it.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Obamacare is the best thing that has happened to health insurance since Medicare was implemented. There are things that we could make better but unfortunately people only seemed concerned about sabotaging it.

If this is correct then the subsidies are fucked to hell. The younger generations are getting fucked in more than one way with social services while having higher than ever level of debts they can't get rid of. It's fucking obnoxious to have them prop up even more by raising their rates and lower other peoples rates.

You really think they won't use it? They will try not to, but basically one small injury and they will be happy they have it.

Except not? With deductibles that high you'll have to be going to the doctor every other week to not be paying out of pocket. Many younger people don't have insurance because you're usually your healthiest and have low chance of something major happening.

 

[Black Mamba]

1. We were told at the beginning that almost everyone's insurance premiums would drop if not at least stabilize, and that generous subsidies will be given up to a good income level. Then the message got switched that certain upper middle classes will have to pay more. Then it was the young subsidizing the old. Now the message seems to the young and healthy with incomes of barely $35K a year are expected to significantly subsidize their peers making $15K a year. Nearly all the young people 2-3 years were expecting a uniform decrease in their costs AND major subsidies for them.

Everyone knew from the get-go this required the young to buy into it when they currently don't, often because they are healthy. And I don't recall hearing that everyone's premiums wouldn't go up. Pretty sure it was known that if you earn a lot, you'd be paying more.

Also, it is misleading to say young people earning $35k+ will be subsidizing their peers because the overwhelming majority of people, regardless of age, earning over $35k+ have employer based insurance and won't need to buy their own.

Some like 75%, I believe, of young enrollees will qualify for subsidies.

2. In any case, trying to rely on those making ~$30K a year to prop up the system is folly. Paying $100 4-5 years ago was already a burden, now trying to pay $150-200 with a $5000+ deductible is even worse, and they get little to no subsidies whatsoever. The economy has not improved, wages are stagnant and many cases undergoing deflation, and its expected those people have plenty to spare?

Again, most of these people will already have employer insurance. What is happening is asking young people to contribute something, even if it's $50-100, compared to the $0 now into the system to have protection and help pay for the others.

The other people coming in will be people with pre-existing conditions, some of them not even major like acne or acid reflex, who will be allowed to buy in at a reasonable rate.

Sure, there will be young people who don't have employer insurance that will see hikes. But how many healthy young people who earn $40k don't buy it for themselves, right now? And they can afford a price hike better than most (and they still get tax write-offs).

3. Finally, the fatal flaw is that it assumes that merely slowing down the cost inflation, or perhaps somewhat stabilizing it, will patch up the healthcare system. Unfortunately, one ultimately needs a income of sorts in order to pay for any of those costs, no mater the level of subsidies or cheapness of the premiums. Even more unfortunately, as global economic forces and technological "progress" continues to ravage incomes and employment levels, the healthy core of payers will continue to decrease until this current Obamacare system is no longer tenable, because there will no longer be any sort of stable working/middle classes capable of paying even a modicum amount to float it.

Yeah, but by putting more people on isurance, when or if this happens, it will simply mean the end game is single payer which is what we should want, anyway.

 

[Gallbaro]

the ACA has been a disaster from the get-go? How so? Considering that the key part of the bill hasn't even taken effect yet what exactly has been disastrous?

How is taking money from the generation with the least assets to cover a general good that they are the least likely to use, "fair share?"

 

[Foffy]

I think the entire health system is broken in the US, and all of these measures still don't address the fact health is still looked at something like car insurance here. So either you buy into the stupid bullshit, or if something happens to you, you become another victim in this cancerous system. All of it is terrible.

 

[PhoenixDark]

The only true way to end Obamacare is if people don't sign up for the exchanges. If that aspect doesn't work, the law is fucked. I happen to believe people will sign up, especially when they learn they'll get subsidies.

 

[DigitalRicket]

So I'm curious. My wife and I together make less than 40k per year. What are we looking at when this hits and its Jan 1st, 2014? Will we see a major take from our paychecks? What sort of coverage will we be getting? Is dental included?

I've been waiting for more info but my state says specific details won't be given until October when we can actually choose the plan we want. I'm just looking for general answers.

 

[Black Mamba]

How is taking money from the generation with the least assets to cover a general good that they are the least likely to use, "fair share?"

You're actually taking assets from the pretty well-off youth, not everyone else.

a lot of the youth get a roughly good deal. Let's review.

A. young people can stay on their parents' insurance til 26.

B. young people will qualify for a lot of subsidies

C. young people will often qualify for the medicaid expansion

D. Most young people who don't qualify for subsidies generally have employer insurance anyway, so they don't even come into the equation.

What's really happening is Obamacare is asking healthy people w/o employer insurance who make over 4 times the poverty level in addition to the youth getting cheap coverage in order to pay more to subsidize people who can't afford insurance now or can't get it at a reasonable rate because of a pre-existing condition

 

[Coins]

Not without the President's signature they can't. Also, have you not read the recent statements by many GOP Senators and leaders of the conservative party? To stop trying to defund the ACA because elections matter. The ACA is here to stay.

You're listening to the GOP House members and Tea Party folks too much. The GOP will not get a super majority in 2014 in the Senate, they may not even get back the Senate at all. Dems will gain on the GOP in the House also. Obama is here for two more years too and by 2016 the law will be so ingrained into society, well, good luck trying to sabotage it. People aren't going to be willing to go back to being denied due to preexisting conditions, going back to annual/lifetime limits, going back to not having maternity covered, going back to not staying on their parents plan until they're 26.

The President doesn't have to sign off on anything a state does to repeal/change how Obamacare works in their state. There are major efforts underway to negatively affect Obamacare on a state by state basis.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

You're actually taking assets from the pretty well-off youth, not everyone else.

a lot of the youth get a roughly good deal. Let's review.

A. young people can stay on their parents' insurance til 26.

B. young people will qualify for a lot of subsidies

C. young people will often qualify for the medicaid expansion

D. Most young people who don't qualify for subsidies generally have employer insurance anyway, so they don't even come into the equation.

What's really happening is Obamacare is asking healthy people w/o employer insurance who make over 4 times the poverty level in addition to the youth getting cheap coverage in order to pay more to subsidize people who can't afford insurance now or can't get it at a reasonable rate because of a pre-existing condition

What are the vague "lots of subsidies" you keep talking about? The chart in the OP shows them getting pretty much no subsidy for making $30k at 26 years old. That's not people who are well off and using shitty medicaid because you're poor isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

 

[I am Michael Bolton]

If this is correct then the subsidies are fucked to hell. The younger generations are getting fucked in more than one way with social services while having higher than ever level of debts they can't get rid of. It's fucking obnoxious to have them prop up even more by raising their rates and lower other peoples rates.



Except not? With deductibles that high you'll have to be going to the doctor every other week to not be paying out of pocket. Many younger people don't have insurance because you're usually your healthiest and have low chance of something major happening.

Realize that all of these plans include preventative care which includes your annual physical, vaccinations, preventative testing for certain diseases. Again, many of you don't realize that TODAY the individual market for insurance is HUGE and people are already paying hundreds a month for deductibles at the $5000-10000 a year amount. Individual coverage was never meant to match group coverage. You're never going to find $500 deductibles in the individual market even with the ACA.

The President doesn't have to sign off on anything a state does to repeal/change how Obamacare works in their state. There are major efforts underway to negatively affect Obamacare on a state by state basis.

That's true except they're going to have to work with the HHS department. You're also going to find that insurance companies are going to start marketing this law. Blue Cross is already joining with Walgreens to get the word out. And while states can try to do damage, at the end of the day they too are limited.

 

[Black Mamba]

What are the vague "lots of subsidies" you keep talking about? The chart in the OP shows them getting pretty much no subsidy for making $30k at 26 years old. That's not people who are well off and using shitty medicaid because you're poor isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

Most people who make $30k+ have employer insurance, though. So while it's true someone approaching $40k won't get much of a subsidy, it's disingenuous to suggest there are huge numbers of these people out there.

94% of companies with 50+ people offer insurance in the US. The people who generally don't have employer insurance are people working like at Walmart and not making much money.

So while the subsidies aren't great at that level, most people who qualify for subsidies will earn a lot less. And really, $120 a month for a $2500 deductable insurance for someone who earns $30k is very reasonable. Hell, that's cheaper than the individual insurance I got many years ago at 21 out here in Cali when I just graduated.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Realize that all of these plans include preventative care which includes your annual physical, vaccinations, preventative testing for certain diseases. Again, many of you don't realize that TODAY the individual market for insurance is HUGE and people are already paying hundreds a month for deductibles at the $5000-10000 a year amount. Individual coverage was never meant to match group coverage. You're never going to find $500 deductibles in the individual market even with the ACA.



That's true except they're going to have to work with the HHS department. You're also going to find that insurance companies are going to start marketing this law. Blue Cross is already joining with Walgreens to get the word out. And while states can try to do damage, at the end of the day they too are limited.

Most people aren't rushing to sign up due to occasional vaccines you don't need for years and for annual physicals... It would be cheaper to get those without insurance than to pay for coverage and satisfy the deductible if that's all you need. Vaccines are also boosted after numerous years if at all. Preventive testing is maybe most valuable but will probably still be the least used by people in this age range. Usually not worried about cancer or some major problem at 26.

Most people who make $30k+ have employer insurance, though. So while it's true someone approaching $40k won't get much of a subsidy, it's disingenuous to suggest there are huge numbers of these people out there.

94% of companies with 50+ people offer insurance in the US. The people who generally don't have employer insurance are people working like at Walmart and not making much money.

So while the subsidies aren't great at that level, most people who qualify for subsidies will earn a lot less. And really, $120 a month for a $2500 deductable insurance for someone who earns $30k is very reasonable. Hell, that's cheaper than the individual insurance I got many years ago at 21 out here in Cali when I just graduated.

You're calling me disingenuous? Seriously? You keep waiving around subsidies when you meant to say hopefully you have employer coverage or you're absolutely fucked as far as subsidies go. That's what I call disingenuous. If insurance coverage was this prevalent and used then we wouldn't have a need for this overhaul, obviously things are seriously broken.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I work 30 hours a week and only make $8.97 an hour. If I have to pay more than $50 a month for insurance that'll affect my other commitments, like paying off student loans and helping my mother.

I live in FL by the way.

 

[Black Mamba]

You're calling me disingenuous? Seriously? You keep waiving around subsidies when you meant to say hopefully you have employer coverage or you're absolutely fucked as far as subsidies go. That's what I call disingenuous. If insurance coverage was this prevalent and used then we wouldn't have a need for this overhaul, obviously things are seriously broken.

No, I'm not saying you are. If anyone, it's the WSJ. I'm sorry if you interpreted that as a direct attack on you, I swear I didn't mean it. I only meant that for the article to give off this implication that there are huge amounts of 25 year olds earning $30k w/o employer insurance as wrong. They exist, of course, and they will have to pay. But like I said, $100 a month for insurance is really a good option for them given the way things are. I'd argue not buying insurance is risky.

I do agree the system is broken.

I also should mention there's subsidies for out-of-pocket expenses as well, so the deductibles aren't the end all.

 

[Black Mamba]

I work 30 hours a week and only make $8.97 an hour. If I have to pay more than $50 a month for insurance that'll affect my other commitments, like paying off student loans and helping my mother.

I live in FL by the way.

Fla is still debating to expand medicaid, I believe, and with those numbers you just might qualify for medicaid (which means free) if they take the expansion. At worst you'd qualify for almost full subsidy at that income level (assuming you're single).

medicaid is under 138% of poverty level is Fla expands and I believe you qualify.

If they don't expand, you may be able to buy the bronze plan for $0 according to the Kaiser calculator (WSJ's is obviously less favorable).

 

[Guevara]

Everyone thinks they're healthy until they're not.

Imagine if you could forgo car insurance if you think you're a safe driver.

 

[Foffy]

Everyone thinks they're healthy until they're not.

Imagine if you could forgo car insurance if you think you're a safe driver.

Comparing life to a material device is part of the problem we have when we talk about health care. They're not the same, despite the current conditioning in the US that they're similar.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Fla is still debating to expand medicaid, I believe, and with those numbers you just might qualify for medicaid (which means free) if they take the expansion. At worst you'd qualify for almost full subsidy at that income level (assuming you're single).

medicaid is under 138% of poverty level is Fla expands and I believe you qualify.

If they don't expand, you may be able to buy the bronze plan for $0 according to the Kaiser calculator (WSJ's is obviously less favorable).

Well that's a relief. I just don't mind paying more whenever I find a better job.

 

[timetokill]

Yep, my wife and I literally cannot afford what they're trying to push on us. So in the end we'll be poorer thanks to Obamacare and still not have insurance. Whee.

What sense does it make to pay $250 a month or whatever and then have to pay thousands in deductibles on top of that? I can go uninsured to a bunch of places for most things.

If something catastrophic happens I'm fucked either way, so it doesn't make sense for me.

 

[The Technomancer]

Well that's a relief. I just don't mind paying more whenever I find a better job.

That's part of why the rhetoric used in stories like this is annoying. The Act has provisions designed to minimize the amount of stress thats going to be placed on, well, a lot of groups, including young adults, but its possible to look for the cracks and then talk about them like they would represent a significant portion of cases.

 

[Guevara]

Comparing life to a material device is part of the problem we have when we talk about health care. They're not the same, despite the current conditioning in the US that they're similar.

It's an analogy of course but if you are going around without health insurance (no matter how healthy you may be) you are taking a huge financial risk and if you can't pay your bill the system is on the hook.

 

[Phoenix]

When something happens to you and you're in need of health insurance, you'll be paying much more than $200-300 a month.

Many people in that position are starting to get care, declare bankruptcy to clear the bill, and move on with life. Cheaper to run without credit than pay a $150k hospital bill.

 

[I am Michael Bolton]

Yep, my wife and I literally cannot afford what they're trying to push on us. So in the end we'll be poorer thanks to Obamacare and still not have insurance. Whee.

What sense does it make to pay $250 a month or whatever and then have to pay thousands in deductibles on top of that? I can go uninsured to a bunch of places for most things.

If something catastrophic happens I'm fucked either way, so it doesn't make sense for me.

If something catastrophic happened would you prefer to be out $6000-10000 or $100,000+?

Many people in that position are starting to get care, declare bankruptcy to clear the bill, and move on with life. Cheaper to run without credit than pay a $150k hospital bill.

You do realize it's not so simple to just 'declare bankruptcy', right? It fucks up your credit for years and makes it very difficult to get back on your feet for a few years. Try getting a car without paying cash. Try applying for a loan. And the whole point of insurance, even high deductible insurance is to make sure you don't have to pay $150k in hospital bills. $7500 for many plans is the MAX out of pocket.