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[DanielsM]

Which is exaclty my whole point lmao. You guys saying Microsoft are losing out on all this money when there not really. Halo 3 the best selling halo done $600m (reported 3 years after launch) no gears of war game has done more than $300-$350m total...no Forza game has done $300m total.

No, I never said that, they're just switch a few dollars from one pocket to another. from sales to rental services.

At the end of the day... there isn't more money.

So if 8M people are paying $10 a month on game pass that's:
$80M a month
$960M a year

Doubtful, but we don't have solid numbers, we know revenue has been flat to down for years. (no growth) Basically, at best is switching money from one pocket to another... from sales to rental i.e. services. Total numbers don't look like some type of shift.

The problem is.... 8m people probably aren't paying $10 a month and that probably isn't enough to support lots of major AAA game development.

Even if we're to entertain this silliness If Gamepass was to stay stagnant at 8M for 3 years that's $2.88B you could fit Halo 3/Reach/4 and the entire Gears of war revenue into that. And You can bet it'll be bigger than 8-10M in 3 years

But even we assume those numbers (which I doubt), what are the cost to provide the subscriptions and to pay third parties per subscription i.e. costs?

I never said game rentals couldn't be an additional revenue stream, they have been since the early 90s.

Game development is front loaded, meaning unless you have a one-off f2p hit or something... generally the money is going to be made in the first 3-6 months... the rest is just crumbs.

There is nothing wrong with rentals now... or even the early 90s from the rental store... its just the majority of game dev costs are going to have to be from sales.

I will say the same thing I said a year ago... this is a long tough road.

 

[Nikana]

Correction 10 million who have tried it.
I bet the actual people using it as you say is ~1 million

No, its 10 million active subscribers.

 

[GiJoint]

PS Now is pretty pathetic. Being only available in a few countries.

Gamepass is great.

 

[DanielsM]

PS Now is pretty pathetic. Being only available in a few countries.

Gamepass is great.

Well, if they can't get paying customers at these prices, I doubt they are in any hurry to move to other countries.

 

[SuperLupeRap]

Correction 10 million who have tried it.
I bet the actual people using it as you say is ~1 million

Actually I think it's more like 16 real users /s

 

[octiny]

Incredible numbers. Best part about it is it's "active" users.

Sony Reaches the 1 Million Milestone With PlayStation Now Subscribers - PlayStation LifeStyle

In a recent conference call, Sony revealed that the PlayStation Now subscribers number has reached a whopping one million.

www.playstationlifestyle.net

 

[StreetsofBeige]

PS Now is pretty pathetic. Being only available in a few countries.

Gamepass is great.

PS Now 19.
Where is PlayStation Now available?
PlayStation Now is currently available in 19 countries:

Austria	Luxembourg
Belgium	Norway
Canada	Portugal
Denmark	Spain
Finland	Sweden
France	Switzerland
Germany	The Netherlands
Ireland	UK
Italy	USA
Japan

Gamepass 41 (if I counted right).
Availability[edit]
Xbox Game Pass is available in Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hong Kong, Hungary, India, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Mexico, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Slovakia, South Africa, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom, and the United States.[15]

 

[marianus]

It's a LOT more money than that, since contrary to popular Sonyfan belief, a helluva lot of people that try the $1 one month trial end up loving it and they stay pay $10-$15 (ultimate) per month. It's by far the best deal in gaming and and worth far MORE the full monthly price.

How do you know?

 

[dorkimoe]

Best subscription service I have. Played so many games I never would have. And saved so much money not buying stuff like gears and outer worlds

 

[Nikana]

How do you know?

Because they have 10 million subs....

 

[GiJoint]

PS Now 19.
Where is PlayStation Now available?
PlayStation Now is currently available in 19 countries:

Austria	Luxembourg
Belgium	Norway
Canada	Portugal
Denmark	Spain
Finland	Sweden
France	Switzerland
Germany	The Netherlands
Ireland	UK
Italy	USA
Japan

Gamepass 41 (if I counted right).
Availability[edit]
Xbox Game Pass is available in Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hong Kong, Hungary, India, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Mexico, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Slovakia, South Africa, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom, and the United States.[15]

Exactly. And it's been out for awhile now. its almost like a role reversal here as PlayStation is the more popular of the two globally.

Good in you Gamepass.

 

[CaptainClaw]

No, I never said that, they're just switch a few dollars from one pocket to another. from sales to rental services.

At the end of the day... there isn't more money.



Doubtful, but we don't have solid numbers, we know revenue has been flat to down for years. (no growth) Basically, at best is switching money from one pocket to another... from sales to rental i.e. services. Total numbers don't look like some type of shift.

The problem is.... 8m people probably aren't paying $10 a month and that probably isn't enough to support lots of major AAA game development.



But even we assume those numbers (which I doubt), what are the cost to provide the subscriptions and to pay third parties per subscription i.e. costs?

I never said game rentals couldn't be an additional revenue stream, they have been since the early 90s.

Game development is front loaded, meaning unless you have a one-off f2p hit or something... generally the money is going to be made in the first 3-6 months... the rest is just crumbs.

There is nothing wrong with rentals now... or even the early 90s from the rental store... its just the majority of game dev costs are going to have to be from sales.

Yes and Netflix didn't start off with 93M users, the more quality content that has come out for Gamepass as well as the pricing has subscribed more users...the more bigger these numbers grow the more bigger name game developers will feel incentivised to put their games on and this will bring more users into the subscription

..and I am very aware that a games revenue is front loaded I don't see how that changes what I'm saying.

 

[Mattyp]

Why is DanielsM aloud to post in any gamepass threads? Deadset.

The same cycle and spin is brain deadening as the numbers continue to beat his predictions. Was only 2 million subscriptions 6 months ago wasn't it? All trials and $1 members. Fuck me.

 

[DanielsM]

Yes and Netflix didn't start off with 93M users, the more quality content that has come out for Gamepass as well as the pricing has subscribed more users...the more bigger these numbers grow the more bigger name game developers will feel incentivised to put their games on and this will bring more users into the subscription

..and I am very aware that a games revenue is front loaded I don't see how that changes what I'm saying.

Most of the big publishers already have their own rental services or working out to expand their own services. On PC developers nor the large publisher have to deal with middle men. There is nothing wrong with game rentals, I mean they've been around since the early 90s. As far as some shift of consumption, we're years into this and there hasn't been any real shift. Even if it were so... than you will have X number of services.

I'm sure manufacturers, developers, publishers will continue to experiment... but I don't really see some large shift going on.... its a tough road, imo.

 

[marianus]

Because they have 10 million subs....

Ok

 

[LeVictorien]

Lots of salty people in here...

Gamepass is really great for what it is. I feel like next gen is gonna show how much power games as a service hold when most MS games end up day and date in GP.

 

[CatLady]

Why is DanielsM aloud to post in any gamepass threads? Deadset.

The same cycle and spin is brain deadening as the numbers continue to beat his predictions. Was only 2 million subscriptions 6 months ago wasn't it? All trials and $1 members. Fuck me.

I have NO idea. I DO know he has been banned previously for his constant trolling/derailing in Game Pass threads. Yet here he is after a long hiatus doing it again. I guess he can't help himself.

 

[Nikana]

Why is DanielsM aloud to post in any gamepass threads? Deadset.

The same cycle and spin is brain deadening as the numbers continue to beat his predictions. Was only 2 million subscriptions 6 months ago wasn't it? All trials and $1 members. Fuck me.

Report it. Only way to get it taken care of.

 

[Matsuchezz]

Is the Rare collection available for download in GP? IT seems to me like a pretty good deal to play indie games, and BC games like Silent Hill games, if they are available, i will probably subscribe when XsX is released, since I do not care for MS games at least their current games line up, although Ori looks good, I would like to try that.

 

[CatLady]

Is the Rare collection available for download in GP? IT seems to me like a pretty good deal to play indie games, and BC games like Silent Hill games, if they are available, i will probably subscribe when XsX is released, since I do not care for MS games at least their current games line up, although Ori looks good, I would like to try that.

Ori and the Will of the Wisps is AWESOME and I normally can't stand platformers. Ori and the Blind Forest Definitive edition is also available on GP if you have played it yet.

Edit: I just checked and Rare Replay is also on GP

 

[BusierDonkey]

I get a kick out of people poo-pooing Gamepass. There is literally no down-side to it for the price. $15 a month for open access to every new 1st party game, a shitload of other titles across PC and consoles is a good deal. Games leave the service, but there are so many games and if you like something that's leaving the service that much, you should probably just buy that game anyways. If you think Gamepass is the devil, obviously feel free not to use it, but I can't see a valid reason not to outside people that dislike recurring payments.

I'm playing Ori right now on PC, I played Blind Forest, MCC, Halo Wars 1/2, the entire Metro series, Gears 4 and 5, Rage 2, Outer Worlds, Bloodstained, Crackdown 3 (I liked it, fight me), Dead Cells, etc. I've played through well over 30 games on the service since last year and have spent about what I used to spend on a couple games. I've stumbled across games that I didn't even know existed but really enjoyed like ReCore and Everspace. There are a bunch of good games I haven't gotten to like Plague Tale, Gears Tacticss, etc, The amount of games I have access to on my Xbone is daunting. I used to spend $15 to toss the dice and rent two shitty games for a weekend when I was a kid, this is fantastic! I download a game and if it sucks I uninstall and move on to the next game.

My legit issue, is that I don't have time to play even a fraction of all this shit.

 

[BadBurger]

Pretty impressive seeing as they didn't even sell 50 million units this gen. I got mines. Played a lot of great games on my Xbox because of it.

 

[Sota4077]

Correction 10 million who have tried it.
I bet the actual people using it as you say is ~1 million

They didn't say 10 million have tried it. They are saying is currently HAS more than 10 million subscribers. There are currently 10 million active subscriptions to Game Pass is another way of stating it. They would have said more than 10 million accounts if they wanted to do what you are saying they are.

 

[Stuart360]

10M active users but no games. Waste of money.

 

[Matsuchezz]

Ori and the Will of the Wisps is AWESOME and I normally can't stand platformers. Ori and the Blind Forest Definitive edition is also available on GP if you have played it yet.

Edit: I just checked and Rare Replay is also on GP

Awesome!! I have meant to play that for ages, but hesistant to buy an Xbox one X for that. I just glanced at the list and it seems there are a few games that I would like to check. The hardest thing for me will be find the time to play more games.

 

[SegaShack]

Still doesn't add up for this to continue being a thing? Out of all the AAA titles that are on game pass and still they won't reveal sales numbers even after the fact in relation to this service is very telling!

I'd hop on this too while I could but I don't see it lasting much longer!

congrats to them tho!

Netflix also loses money but is highly valued (as are a lot of subscription models).

I don't have gamepass but think it's cool
to give people options to try new games vs having to purchase each one outright.

 

[Craig of War]

10M active users but no games. Waste of money.

LOL

 

[Hosam6xavi]

10M active users but no games. Waste of money.

i've had enough internet for today it's time for me to sleep

 

[Stuart360]

I love the salt Gamepass produces on here (and Xbox in general). They know its an amazing product for gamers, probably unmatched, and that really grates on some people.

 

[CatLady]

Awesome!! I have meant to play that for ages, but hesistant to buy an Xbox one X for that. I just glanced at the list and it seems there are a few games that I would like to check. The hardest thing for me will be find the time to play more games.

I've NEVER had a backlog before GP, now I have a lot more time but a big backlog sitting in my GP queue. I've discovered so many great games that I never would have bought or never even heard of before. I think that's the one problem with Game Pass - deciding which game to play next.

 

[Sota4077]

No, I never said that, they're just switch a few dollars from one pocket to another. from sales to rental services.

At the end of the day... there isn't more money.

Doubtful, but we don't have solid numbers, we know revenue has been flat to down for years. (no growth) Basically, at best is switching money from one pocket to another... from sales to rental i.e. services. Total numbers don't look like some type of shift.

The problem is.... 8m people probably aren't paying $10 a month and that probably isn't enough to support lots of major AAA game development.

God dammit why do people just spew bullshit that is so easily verifiable as bullshit.

• April 2018 - Xbox software and services revenue up 24%, gaming revenue up 18% to $345M
• July 2018a - The Xbox division helped Microsoft grow its bottom line during the fourth quarter of its fiscal 2018, the company revealed during its quarterly financial report.
• July 2018b - Xbox Revenue Jumps 39%
• April 2019 - Xbox Sees Increase in Revenue Despite One-Third Drop in Hardware Sales
• July 2019 - Microsoft's Xbox Revenue Is Plummeting, And Here's Why That's Fine (Expected at the tail end of a console generation.)
• January 2020 - Xbox Revenue Is Down 21%, But Microsoft Has A Reason (Again-tail end of generation)

So can we just admit that you were talking out of your ass or are we going to have to do some silly ass back and forth where you bring up some technicality and argue that to death?

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

They didn't say 10 million have tried it. They are saying is currently HAS more than 10 million subscribers. There are currently 10 million active subscriptions to Game Pass is another way of stating it. They would have said more than 10 million accounts if they wanted to do what you are saying they are.

That isn't what was said in what I quoted.

 

[Smoke6]

Yes and Netflix didn't start off with 93M users, the more quality content that has come out for Gamepass as well as the pricing has subscribed more users...the more bigger these numbers grow the more bigger name game developers will feel incentivised to put their games on and this will bring more users into the subscription

..and I am very aware that a games revenue is front loaded I don't see how that changes what I'm saying.

Yeah but Netflix went up on their prices and did 30day trials in which got people hooked into subbing for months due to the cost of entry was negligible at best!

Netflix also loses money but is highly valued (as are a lot of subscription models).

I don't have gamepass but think it's cool
to give people options to try new games vs having to purchase each one outright.

i understand man I really do, it's just this type of service for video games is a bit tricky!

see a movie on costs around $5-30 as opposed to a video game that doesn't get a theatrical release to make up for some of the money if not more before released to Digital or physical. The game is flat out $40-60 and the costs of development needs to be recoup or the studio can face a closing or maybe given a second chance at redemption!

with the Gamepass model, with having hundreds of games on the service for a $1-15 is flat out giving money away basically! They're not ready to go down this road if they can't sell the hardware nor the amount of games necessary to even have this been a thought!

 

[Craig of War]

10 million subscribers and we still have Next Gen big and new Games Like Halo Infinite Forza Motorsport 8 & Horizon 5 and Hellblade 2 and Everwild and State of Decay 3 and new Fable and new Perfect Dark coming day 1 to Gamepass so by the end of next Gen i expect Gamepass will have 20-30 million subscribers this is truly big if everything goes as plan Gamepass will be a juggernaut and truly become the Netflix of gaming.

 

[Stuart360]

Microsoft really should throw in a years Gamepass in with the XSX. It would hook people willing to spend $500 on a new console, but are worrying about having little money left to buy some actual games.

 

[TyphoonStruggle]

Nope, I got 13 months of gamepass ultimate for 1 dollar. They had a conversion earlier where if you paid $1, it would convert your remaining XBLG membership to Gamepass Ultimate for $1 up to 36 months. Lots of people stacked 3 years of XBLG and then purchased Gamepass Ultimate for $1. So no, not $10 million a month at all. It's a great service but it surprises me how those who claim to be enthusiasts are often divorced from the reality of the matter.

You needed to pay for XBLG membership... so not really $1.

It's like buying something at $100 after its 50% off and thinking you saved $100. But in reality you spent $100.

But whatever makes you feel good or whatever.

 

[Sota4077]

Microsoft really should throw in a years Gamepass in with the XSX. It would hook people willing to spend $500 on a new console, but are worrying about having little money left to buy some actual games.

I cannot see them adding in a year, but I could certainly see 3 months. That gets people a good enough taste of the service and it helps them through the launch window lull in games that happens with every console launch.

 

[Nikana]

Nope, I got 13 months of gamepass ultimate for 1 dollar. They had a conversion earlier where if you paid $1, it would convert your remaining XBLG membership to Gamepass Ultimate for $1 up to 36 months. Lots of people stacked 3 years of XBLG and then purchased Gamepass Ultimate for $1. So no, not $10 million a month at all. It's a great service but it surprises me how those who claim to be enthusiasts are often divorced from the reality of the matter.

And they stacked it by buying Gold..which isnt free.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

10 million subscribers and we still have Next Gen big and new Games Like Halo Infinite Forza Motorsport 8 & Horizon 5 and Hellblade 2 and Everwild and State of Decay 3 and new Fable and new Perfect Dark coming day 1 to Gamepass so by the end of next Gen i expect Gamepass will have 20-30 million subscribers this is truly big if everything goes as plan Gamepass will be a juggernaut and truly become the Netflix of gaming.

Yup. It's a win-win for gamers.

You get tons of games for cheap, including first party launches. Or at worst, the service fails in a few years, but you already got your bang for the buck out of it.

What do I care? I got 3 years of GP for $1..... OK, it was actually $1.13 when tax is included. The same price a Wendy's Frosty is during the summer. I'll bite.

Kind of reminds me of old ass Columbia House CDs in 1993. Get 9 CDs free if you buy 6. No problem. Even at jacked up prices, getting 15 CDs for a certain amount of money was cheaper than buying 15 CDs at a store. Thanks Columbia House. No thanks, I won't buy more at regular price.

Oh wait, you want to hook me back in with buy 1 get 1 free. Ok, maybe I'll bite if the math says it's worth doing.

MS just made $10 billion in profit in one quarter. They can eat some costs as a rounding error.

 

[Nikana]

Yeah but Netflix went up on their prices and did 30day trials in which got people hooked into subbing for months due to the cost of entry was negligible at best!

i understand man I really do, it's just this type of service for video games is a bit tricky!

see a movie on costs around $5-30 as opposed to a video game that doesn't get a theatrical release to make up for some of the money if not more before released to Digital or physical. The game is flat out $40-60 and the costs of development needs to be recoup or the studio can face a closing or maybe given a second chance at redemption!

with the Gamepass model, with having hundreds of games on the service for a $1-15 is flat out giving money away basically! They're not ready to go down this road if they can't sell the hardware nor the amount of games necessary to even have this been a thought!

You choosing to ignore people showing you exactly how your numbers are wrong is telling. But hey, keep trying.

 

[CaptainClaw]

Most of the big publishers already have their own rental services or working out to expand their own services. On PC developers nor the large publisher have to deal with middle men. There is nothing wrong with game rentals, I mean they've been around since the early 90s. As far as some shift of consumption, we're years into this and there hasn't been any real shift. Even if it were so... than you will have X number of services.

I'm sure manufacturers, developers, publishers will continue to experiment... but I don't really see some large shift going on.... its a tough road, imo.

Lool yh I'm sure you said the same for Online gaming. And no it's not the same thing because you can look at EA access for example indeed 5M subs isn't anything to shy about but that's across multiple platforms and EA have some of the biggest Franchises but they like many other Pubs will fall flat on is the limited amount of games on their services. Gamepass isn't just Microsoft exclusive games they have other devs and publishers on board. Other than Ea what multiplat Dev/Pub has a Subscription like Gamepass?

 

[CrustyBritches]

I'm glad people are so concerned about multi-billion(trillion?) dollar companies. I'm just totally spitballing here, but I'd guess MS will make enough money off Sony with Azure to cover most of their 1st-party development. Don't worry, boys, Sony is covering this meal.

 

[Craig of War]

Yup. It's a win-win for gamers.

You get tons of games for cheap, including first party launches. Or at worst, the service fails in a few years, but you already got your bang for the buck out of it.

What do I care? I got 3 years of GP for $1..... OK, it was actually $1.13 when tax is included. The same price a Wendy's Frosty is during the summer. I'll bite.

Kind of reminds me of old ass Columbia House CDs in 1993. Get 9 CDs free if you buy 6. No problem. Even at jacked up prices, getting 15 CDs for a certain amount of money was cheaper than buying 15 CDs at a store. Thanks Columbia House. No thanks, I won't buy more at regular price.

Oh wait, you want to hook me back in with buy 1 get 1 free. Ok, maybe I'll bite if the math says it's worth doing.

MS just made $10 billion in profit in one quarter. They can eat some costs as a rounding error.

You got 3 years of Gamepass for $1 i got it for 2 more years for totally free using the Microsoft Rewards points that i save up since 2017 im suprise nobody talks about Microsoft Rewards it like free Money.

 

[Smoke6]

You're chatting out off your a** 10million copies at 60 a pop is $600 million and for 5 games that's $3 Billion there aren't that many games that sell 10 million for starters and 10 million people are not buying the same 5 games and most games that do sell 10m+ take advantage of console bundles.

Minus Fifa/Call of duty/GTA show me a game company that is making "$3 Billion" from 5 games every year (let alone exclusives). I'll wait

If you can't do basic maths then your "OPINIONS" aren't going to hold much weight

It was basic as the 5 games I've been using are the ones they continuously keep rehashing!

the first 3 gears games all sold over 5 million copies each so it's safe to say it could have reached it with one title but has been on the decline but neglecting 5-6 million paying customers for a rental service seems a bit naive no?

let's go to forza... another 2-4 million seller, so lets rent this one out too!

Halo... another series where those games were selling over 5-10 mill a release and yet, lets rent this bad boy out!

like really man, no way in hell they really thought this was plausible when they only have a few titles in there catalogue that would be worth that. At the end of the day they have to pay everyone who uses the service and the devs that love it are the ones making out good as there game would have never made them that type of money to begin with and you can get that from the comments in here alone!

but imma lay off, don't wanna spread negativity!

 

[StreetsofBeige]

You got 3 years of Gamepass for $1 i got it for 2 more years for totally free using the Microsoft Rewards points that i save up since 2017 im suprise nobody talks about Microsoft Rewards it like free Money.

Shit. Never looked into MS reward points. Next time I check my acct I'll take a look.

 

[DanielsM]

God dammit why do people just spew bullshit that is so easily verifiable as bullshit.

• April 2018 - Xbox software and services revenue up 24%, gaming revenue up 18% to $345M
• July 2018a - The Xbox division helped Microsoft grow its bottom line during the fourth quarter of its fiscal 2018, the company revealed during its quarterly financial report.
• July 2018b - Xbox Revenue Jumps 39%
• April 2019 - Xbox Sees Increase in Revenue Despite One-Third Drop in Hardware Sales
• July 2019 - Microsoft's Xbox Revenue Is Plummeting, And Here's Why That's Fine (Expected at the tail end of a console generation.)
• January 2020 - Xbox Revenue Is Down 21%, But Microsoft Has A Reason (Again-tail end of generation)

So can we just admit that you were talking out of your ass or are we going to have to do some silly ass back and forth where you bring up some technicality and argue that to death?

But you didn't state what I am talking out of my ass about?

It looks like you posted a bunch of articles summarizing some of the limited numbers that Microsoft finanically releases, so? We can all get that from their investor's page directly or the SEC website.

If you wish to correspond, I'll be glad to in the MS earnings thread on this subject. However, if you're going to be a douche, what's the point?

 

[Sota4077]

But you didn't state what I am talking out of my ass about?

Certainly did. Put it in bold red letters. But I suspect you are only trolling so I'm not doing this with you. Enjoy.

 

[CatLady]

I cannot see them adding in a year, but I could certainly see 3 months. That gets people a good enough taste of the service and it helps them through the launch window lull in games that happens with every console launch.

That's exactly what I was thinking. 3 months is perfect to give them great games to play without any additional investment and after 3 months most people are going to be more than willing to stay on as a paying member.

 

[ruvikx]

Bingo. It sure worked that way with me, I'm hooked.

We went from paying a monthly 6,99 euros here for Xbox Gold (ps plus costs 8,99) just to get online multiplayer (& a couple of token games thrown our way every month), to 12,99 euros a month for ultimate gamepass which includes the gold subscription as well.

It's what I'd call a "good deal". I don't think anyone could disagree on that front, i.e. Microsoft too the "questionable" aspect of paying for the online component of console gaming & turned it into a really good offer.

 

[teezzy]

I'm so exhausted of enthusiasts of any entertainment medium villifying streaming services. Things change. Convenience for the consumer always wins.

Video games aren't going anywhere.