Negotiator101
Member
You know the circus is in town when this clown shows up.
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Xbox to address multi platform games in spring, says former employee
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Okay, my prediction is that eventually they will bring all games to PlayStation and Switch - unless there is a technical limitation like Switch can't play a certain game - or a human resource issue (like Moon Studios is not available anymore to create an Ori port) - or an unviability issue like Redfall is not even worth porting because no one will buy it.
While I have played your game, know that folks who said Xbox will need PS and Switch for Bethesda games were right. Hi-Fi Rush being ported is proof of that. They don't need any more validation.
Ar¢tos
Member
He's technically right...
- Will this game make more money if it's also on Playstation?
- Yes.
- Will this game also make more money if it's also on Playstation?
- Yes.
- And will this game make more money if it's also on Playstation?
- Yes.
- Do you think this game make more money if it's also on Playstation?
- Yes.
- What about this game, will this game make more money if it's also on Playstation?
- Yes.
- Will this game make more money if it's also on Playstation?
- Yes.
... ad infinitum ...
GHG
Member
You haven't needed an Xbox to play specific games for a long time now.
And therein lies the problem.
Nobody needs to consider their console to play Starfield my man.
I don't know why so many people are still in denial about this. This has been reflected in their console sales since Starfield launched.
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At this point it's safe to say nobody knows what the hell is going, you included. When MS themselves say in court that their strategy is to make "small single player Bethesda games" exclusive and big GaaS games multiplatform but then they port HiFi Rush it becomes obvious that the exact strategy isn't very clear and there is some internal turmoil and other metrics going on.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
As i mentioned earlier, the only thing stopping everyone going 3rd party is that there is suppose to be a benefit of having a strong install base of consoles you control. That normally, you are suppose to keep exclusives in order to sustain your own console sales, and then get 30% rent from 3rd party studios.
That business model breaks down, however, when your install base shrinks down to irrelevance. There is now no longer enough Xbox console owners to be a market on its own. The whole "we don't care about console sales" has came home to roost.
Both Sony and Nintendo have sizable console install bases that justify launching exclusives for it, to keep the money train going. Xbox market share has shrunk to such an extent that it no longer applies to them.
This is what happened to SEGA. This is what console wars had always been about; keeping the install base size above the threshold that justify HAVING exclusives. That is why console gamers war.
Killjoy-NL
Member
Except, people stopped considering their console.
Mister Wolf
Member
And how do you get people to consider your console?
Killjoy-NL
Member
Doesn't matter anymore for Xbox.
You guys just don't get it, do you?
Unbelievable.
Fess
Member
It has sold like 30 (?) million or something like that now. That’s plenty enough for exclusives and exclusives drives hardware sales so going 3rd party early is like releasing everything multi from day one when a generation starts and expect great hardware sales.
They’re shooting themselves in the foot. With a shotgun.
They need to just keep going, nothing gets better from handing out their IPs to other platforms except for a short term gain in software sales, which probably will be low anyway since it’s not new games. Once they open that door people will start expecting everything to go multi. And that change goes fast. That’s how it is now for Playstation regarding PC versions. I’ve now stopped investing in PS software, I want the games on Steam and I fully expect to get them all there now, they lost me through that change. And how much are they gaining in sales? Not much going by the numbers shown awhile back. Short term gain, long term loss.
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Why are u talking as if they're still interested in selling their own console these days?
bitbydeath
Member
Remove day one games from PC and GamePass, plenty of people tried warning this situation would happen but Microsoft often gets treated as never doing anything wrong by its fans.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I thought all of gaf had pcs...my heads in a whirlwind right now at all this port begging.
Are everyone liers, including Phil?
Anyway, hopefully Microsoft are clear in their statement about this and they stay true to their words for a few years.
I personally think they will test the waters like sony have been doing with pc, to see how late porta perform. Then once they have the numbers they will make a defining decision.
Are everyone liers, including Phil?
Anyway, hopefully Microsoft are clear in their statement about this and they stay true to their words for a few years.
I personally think they will test the waters like sony have been doing with pc, to see how late porta perform. Then once they have the numbers they will make a defining decision.
FingerBang
Member
I'm sorry, how's that a short-term gain?
Xbox doesn't sell well, even though Switch and PlayStation sell more than ever. Xbox exclusives have not been selling consoles for two generations now.
MS started buying publishers that made a big chunk of their money by selling on other consoles. They purchased them for a price that was based on those sales. Removing those sales is a HUGE loss for MS. Putting the games on Game Pass didn't work; even something as massive as Starfield didn't work. Making the most powerful console ever didn't work.
It's their best interest to start acting like a publisher and focus on their studios' management. They can keep the Xbox branding and still make consoles for Game Pass, but there's no fucking way the purchase of Zenimax and Activision will be as profitable without PlayStation.
This makes no sense. How does removing exclusives from Game Pass help them sell more consoles?
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Mister Wolf
Member
Their problems exist because of the last generation. A company with overwhelming amounts of wealth releases a console inferior to its rival. Later on they rectified that mid generation but it was too little too late. This flexing of their wealth you're seeing them do now should have happened in the Xbox One generation. They should have been buying everything they could get away with like you're seeing now. Makes no sense they even allowed the Series X to have parity with the PS5. The S should be equal to the PS5 and the X should be a premium experience. Xbox has poor leadership.
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
~25 million*
But that userbase could have been enough if (1) Xbox games were not launching on Game Pass, (2) Xbox games were not launching on PC, (3) Xbox gamers were still buying games, and (4) Xbox had not inflated its operating costs exponentially by acquiring all these companies so aggressively.
So, essentially, what PlayStation has been doing.
Take a look at Final Fantasy 16. It launched with a ~25 million PS5 userbase? And it turned out to be a successful game, selling more than 3 million copies in its first week, earning a revenue of more than $200 million.
Xbox doesn't have that luxury anymore, so that 25 million userbase that doesn't buy games yield them negative ROI. Microsoft had it enough, hence this shift in strategy. They're done building the userbase. Now they want profits.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
It's going to he crazy if this gets officially announced and it's not what anyone truly wants.
Which I expect, in true Microsoft fashion.
Which I expect, in true Microsoft fashion.
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tommib
Banned
I live in a sacred and blessed home. We have no hardware running Windows.
Jerm411
Member
Their problems exist because they went all in on a model that clearly isn’t working and isn’t sustainable…they thought they could change the industry and brute force the subscription model as the de facto model moving forward and it isn’t working.
GP numbers have plateaued and I guarantee you they aren’t even in the same galaxy as where the internal projections show they should be at.
Hence why you’re seeing a pivot now before it’s too late…
Lucifers Beard
Member
I'm sure they'll only release on PS and Nintendo consoles on a game by game basis. Otherwise there would be no reason to own an Xbox at all, since neither of the competing platforms will release their games on Xbox.
bitbydeath
Member
By making their console the only place to purchase their exclusives. Without the purchase being involved it means cuts get made or GAAS becomes prominent, it means their games become awful.
bitbydeath
Member
Phil fucked up then too I agree, they should have doubled-down with amazing games but instead he squandered the gen.
Edit: And I should add that people were calling it out then too but again it fell on deaf ears with the fanbase.
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Microsoft is going to use those sweet Playstation and Switch profits to make gamepass stronger. They can sell their own box, build their ecosystem, keep some customers until they are finished playing 4D chess or streaming becomes viable. The good guys of gaming, with the most amount of oxygen.
Fabieter
Member
If Xbox really goes 3rd party then Sony would have less competition and they become even more ignorant.
I have a feeling that switch 2 is gonna be more of a direct competition to spny than the last few few consoles.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
There's one additional factor:
5) Killing existing PlayStation revenues streams by demanding Xbox exclusivity from newly acquired studios
Microsoft Gaming operating costs for its future games had been going up exponentially while at the same time projected revenues were going down fast without PS5 software sales, shrinking Xbox console sales and languishing Game Pass subscription numbers.
MS must have had two choices before them: kill most of those newly acquired studios to cut operating costs or go multi-platform and open up additional revenues streams from Sony/Nintendo platforms. They chose the latter.
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Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Will see but I feel like Nintendo alway does its own thing and doesn’t care what other does, its has good side and bad side.
its just not in gaming industry, in any industry competition is essential to keep the industry healthy.
Killjoy-NL
Member
Nintendo will automatically compete with Sony if Xbox leaves. There will be just 2 platform-holders left (3 incl PC).
All MS did, was give Nintendo some breathtaking room to secure their demographic.
Once Xbox is out, we'll have two healthy platform-holders.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
But WHAT basis?
You said game by game, but without explaining what that means it can mean no games or all the games. Only bad games? Only Good games? Only games that would make money or only games that can't make money?
And all that goes out the window if Hi-Fi Rush become a massive hit on Switch and make way more money than it did on Xbox. Then the game by game basis becomes "we have to decide which games make millions and which doesn't? Why not just do it for all of them?"
skit_data
Member
Unless they really clarify their strategy beyond "case by case basis" I really don't see this working out in the long run. Not for their console at least.
If everything potentially may end up on other platforms based on what essentially is a coin flip in the customers eyes I can only see downsides in terms of consumer trust.
If everything potentially may end up on other platforms based on what essentially is a coin flip in the customers eyes I can only see downsides in terms of consumer trust.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I wouldn't be able to enjoy this hobby without a PC but I'm glad dor you that you see that as a blessing.
Fabieter
Member
Yes ofc but in this case pc is still an option. If sony fucks over its customers lets say wirh weak 1000 bucks consoles than people will just flock to pc.
Fess
Member
How much do you realistically think Hifi will sell?
Do you think it’ll show up on any chart? I don’t. I think it’ll flop. Short-term I think it’ll bring in some extra pocket money, might help get FTC off their backs, but that’s about it.
Long-term it’s just another reason less to invest in their platform.
And as said, it’ll risk changing how people think about their exclusives. Meaning they’ll start expecting all new games to be timed exclusives rather than full exclusives.
Look at Playstation. Try googling Stellar Blade. Every other website says it’ll come to PC. Some even say in April. But since the name change after Sony stepped in as a publisher there has been no mention at all about a PC version. Yet, it’s expected. Because ”everything else” ends up on PC now so why wouldn’t Stellar Blade?
That’s a direct consequence from doing these ports.
Astray
Member
If a consumer pool isn't lucrative enough, then their trust simply doesn't matter to a corporation that's out for $.
This is why the parasocial relationship some fans have with Microsoft was not a good thing. Look at how they're suffering now while Phil and Co just watch.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
The word eventually is a difficult one.
I'd say initially at least Microsoft is going to focus on games that are NOT cornerstones for Xbox.
Despite the fact that it would probably make sense. I don't think we'll see Halo Infinite anytime soon. I don't even think we'll see Halo MCC.
Microsoft doesn't have a relationship with Moon Studios, but Ori releasing on PS4 and PS5 is beneficial for both companies. I think it could happen.
I think where the lines get blurry is games like Starfield, simply because of the time and cost involved, that will hit PS5 sooner rather than later.
So I think you'll see a staggered approach somewhat similar to Sony and their approach on PC where SOME games are Day 1 and some games will take a year+, some games will takes years, and some games will never come.
Blade is definitely going to be a PS game and likely on day 1.
Forza is an interesting one because it bombed so hard on Xbox that Turn10 may be desperate for additional revenue, but it's more in that integral Xbox franchise lane. There's also the reality that it probably wouldn't sell that well on PlayStation.
So I think you have to look at it from this standpoint
- Xbox to Xbox One back catalog titles
- Xbox Series Games from Microsoft proper
- Xbox Series Games from Microsoft extended i.e. Zenimax, ABK, and 2nd party titles
The games least likely to hit PS5 would be Series games from Microsoft proper and probably the top back catalog games.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Hi-Fi Rush never got a real advertising campaign. On Switch and PS5, I'd say it has a decent chance of doubling or tripling its sales with the right ad campaign.
Their platform is bankrupt, there isn't much to invest in at this point. What we'll see for European and North America sales for January is that the drop off YoY is going to be dramatic. They front loaded A LOT of their sales into December. Doubt many people decided, let me buy an Xbox at 100+ dollars more a month later.
I think people think PC games sell way better than they actually do. The impact on PlayStation sales from PC ports is trivial. The difference is that Xbox is essentially dead, they need to pivot to being a publisher before they end up costing A LOT more people their jobs. They'll keep Xbox hardware going because they'd still like to see if they can make something out of the platform, potentially as a streaming service in the future, but they aren't going to push it as a major competitor to PlayStation. What was the last major 3rd party exclusive secured by Microsoft for Xbox? They're not in that game anymore.
Even games like Vision of Mana which is kind of a joke only has a marketing deal with Xbox. It won't even be on GamePass... They were able to get Persona 3 remake as day 1 because of their overall deal with Atlus/Sega, but somehow not able to get Vision of Mana? It's because they looked at the cost of getting Persona 3-5 and said it wasn't worth it for Vision of Mana.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
But what happens, if and when these "unimportant games" start making more money on Switch than on Xbox consoles?
Then what? Does Microsoft ignore the fact that they are leaving money on the table for their "cornerstone" games?
Hi-Fi Rush was Xbox's bright spot of 2023. i really don't see it as unimportant. Giving up exclusivity on it just makes me shake my head. What are they thinking?
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
The only way this happens is if the Switch 2 is significantly more powerful than we believe. In reality, there is almost no chance that Nintendo can step in for Microsoft right away.
Sony is going to be on an island for a while. The question is going to be whether Nintendo steps up quickly. It'll probably depend on Switch 2 hardware sales. They'd need to release a dedicated home console that could easily get equivalent ports of PS5 and eventually PS6 games. Maybe a Switch 2 Pro/Ultra.
I think what is more likely is that someone like Tencent enters the arena.
I also think Sony is going to re-enter the handheld space as well as the PC space with their own storefront. So the competition we see will more likely be Sony and Nintendo in the handheld space and Sony and Steam in the PC space.
It won't be the first or last time we've had a general monopoly in a gaming space. Look at the Atari 2600 and 5200, look at the NES, and look at the PlayStation 2.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
As I said, eventually they'll go fully 3rd party.
Initially, they will want to have their cake and eat it too. They'll want to get as much profit as they can out of the R&D and production costs they've already dumped into the Xbox Series.
I'm convinced that Microsoft's only real path forward is streaming. With that being the case it's very possible that they still won't want games on PlayStation and would rather they only be available on Microsoft's streaming platform just like you would see with say Stranger Things only being available on Netflix (though it'll still be sold on PC, similar to how Netflix sells their shows on bluray sometimes). Releasing these games on PlayStation might hurt their ability to push a streaming service though. That's why I think it'll be a long time before we see games like Halo MCC or Halo Infinite on PS5 or PS6.
They still have major ambitions, they're just pivoting away from Xbox hardware.
The real question we should be asking is if there will even be another Xbox physical hardware generation because I think it would be a complete disaster.
Killjoy-NL
Member
With Xbox gone, there will only be two options left:
Playstation and Nintendo.
Simple as that. And ofcourse it won't happen right away, the market has to adjust.
But both Playstation and Switch sell >100M consoles easily.
Xbox fanbase will split between PC and Playstation (maybe some Switch) and Playstation and Nintendo will have like a 50/50 split in the console space.
It's funny that you should mention that you expect Sony to re-enter the handheld-market, because given Switch' success due to their console/handheld-hybrid approach, this will mean that Sony is going to compete with Nintendo head-on.
EMR
Member
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I think this is how it could play out.
Hi fi rush goes everywhere as it's a colourful game that needs extra exposure as it was brilliant.
The other games to come will be ones to shoe horn xbox accounts in at first. Sea of thieves, grounded, forza horizon, halo infinite.
Then ms will take a 1 to 2 year approach on gaas type games that they can use as leverage to both increase sales and acquire maus
Hi fi rush goes everywhere as it's a colourful game that needs extra exposure as it was brilliant.
The other games to come will be ones to shoe horn xbox accounts in at first. Sea of thieves, grounded, forza horizon, halo infinite.
Then ms will take a 1 to 2 year approach on gaas type games that they can use as leverage to both increase sales and acquire maus
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
I think the majority of people who are still buying Xbox consoles are going to move to PlayStation. They're still console gamers first. A lot will move to PC, especially if Xbox Live lives on there, but most will probably go to PlayStation.
The Switch isn't a console, it's a hybrid. So no, it won't be 50/50, nor are the direct competitors for the exact same dollars.
I do think Sony will look to more compete with Nintendo head-on in handhelds though. Nintendo has created a template and Sony will follow. It'll be easier for Sony to release a handheld that plays PS5 games in the future than it would be for Nintendo to shift gears and start making premium 4K games and selling hardware for a premium 4K console. We've seen Nintendo try to compete with Sony head-on and fail. Nintendo likes to have their operating costs minimal.
Without Microsoft, not only will Sony have a significant rise in revenue and profit, but their operating costs will plummet. The money they save on exclusives like FF7 Rebirth, they'll put towards a handheld and the PC space.
II_JumPeR_I
Member
Yup as soon as MS started that shit i criticized it. But people defended such bonehead decision. Imagine a situation where the Xbone didnt fail. We wouldnt see day1 PC releases... maybe later ports like Sony is doing.
rhodesianshepard
Banned
It's pretty obvious subscription gaming is not a sustainable model for Microsoft, currently. Most gamers only play a few games per year. A monthly service doesn't make sense for them.
Microsoft is just biding it's time until cloud gaming causes a massive gaming boom like we haven't seen since the early 2000's. And going 3rd party in the near future makes sense if they plan to buy more publishers on the cheap, before cloud gaming becomes mainstream
Microsoft is just biding it's time until cloud gaming causes a massive gaming boom like we haven't seen since the early 2000's. And going 3rd party in the near future makes sense if they plan to buy more publishers on the cheap, before cloud gaming becomes mainstream
TheGodfather07
Member
Satya nadella has already told us the plan. Release games on all platforms. How much more direct can it get before some of you get what is happening? Don't worry, Microsoft will still keep xbox consoles around just for hardcore xbox fans like yourself, but they will be multiplatform on the software side.
The reality is that the gamepass experiment has failed and they have killed software sales on the platform but they cannot backtrack and go back to the traditional model now. Only way to sell their games now is on other platforms. It actually makes perfect sense for Microsoft. You've seen the awful hardware sales for xbox. What sense does it make to have exclusive games on a platform that isn't selling and has a small install base? How is that fair on those teams that work hard for years on those games only to see them crash and burn?
Remember the leaks about Pete hines wanting starfield as a multiplatform game? You simply can't reach the majority of gamers by being on xbox console only. It's just not sustainable when xbox is only declining and losing even more marketshare. The fight with Sony is over and Microsoft know it.
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xHunter
Member
You are almost at the acceptance stage. Just a few more days and you will be there.