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XCOM 2 |OT| Be Aggressive! Be Be Aggressive!
- Thread starter Sober
- Start date
SpartanSlayer117
Member
Beaglerush + Grenadier spam + mimic beacons
edit: To clarify, not my screenshot. Guess Beaglerush isn't a household name yet? hahahaha.
Most people lose entire squads on a single legend mission and beagle didn't lose a single soldier on ironman. I feel shamed. His gameplay vids are fun as hell and his EU/EW ironman vid intro is awesome.
RandomSeed
Member
Mimic beacon is just living the dream. For all the cheap things the AI does...we have mimic beacon. We should all be standing behind the mimic beacon (literally and figuratively), as it proudly fulfills its purpose in that glorious single turn. Imagine living that free...no fear of the enemy, and knowing you helped level the cheap tactics playing field. I say thank you mimic beacon, and I hope to see a beautiful modded version of yourself...with lasers, and maybe a proximity mine installed. Oh, oh, and you should have a rapid fire grenade launcher with a nuclear payload. Maybe it could also last 12 turns, be movable, and when it gets a kill, it sprays the squad with artificial bacon scented combat pheromones.
I want a mod that has the mimic beacon take over control for you and command your squad on your behalf. And be able to win. On Legendary Ironman. Without upgrades
Incendiary
Banned
I don't think the beacons are overpowered, but I wouldn't be surprised if they get tweaked. Maybe cost more to make as an item. Or make them one use only tech like the overdrive serum, so if you use it on a mission you have to make a new one.
I mean, the beacons still need LoS to function. I've thrown poorly placed beacons before and the enemy has ignored them. The only mechanic tweak I would think might be necessary is if the enemy already has a good position/flanking position on a soldier they should take that shot instead of repositioning to go after the beacon. Most of the time all my guys are in cover while my beacon is standing out in the open - to me it would make sense for the enemies to go after the one in the open first.
Shake Appeal
Member
A lone Sectoid opted to shoot and wound one of my poorly-placed guys the other day when there were dead bodies available, and I was actually indignant until I realized that was probably how it should be.
I thought they were use it and lose it :O they don't even have limits?
Same.
"Who needs cover? It's just sectoids."
Shake Appeal
Member
I'd prefer they just nerfed it over making it more expensive or single-use. Tactical options are fun. There just shouldn't be one option that's vastly superior to everything else in the game.
Also, don't put your beacon in the open.
Or they have their own beacons. Which you can't tell apart.
But on the plus side you get to revive dead aliens with psychic abilities to attack
Lanrutcon
Member
I always question stats like those. He played an entire game of Xcom legendary without the rng or a bug hosing him once? Yup. Wonder how many times he backed up his save in the background.
Shake Appeal
Member
He streams his play live on the Internet.
I thought he hadn't been streaming lately though. I could believe it from what I'd heard though
even better, the mimics can shoot you and cause damage.
Lanrutcon
Member
If he streamed that entire legendary run from start to finish then more power to him.
They could halve the mimic's health, or give it equal aggro to other soldiers. I've only used it once to save a soldier who was left completely in the open after I blew up his cover (totally my fault, even) and felt a bit icky about it since the enemies just didn't seem to act in character when it appeared.
Having come a bit further into the campaign (haven't gotten much play in it this week due to work) I feel as if the game could use a balance pass difficulty wise. Not just the mimic beacon and grenades, but there's so much powerful stuff that becomes available as you proceed. The AWC has a slot which doubles healing rates, which is really damn good but means that I'm now relying on a smaller set of elite units, since they generally heal up between missions like in the first game. I don't feel like I'm under that much pressure with that in place. And as hair tearing as it is, I like Xcom the most when I can't feel complacent like this.
Then again, I haven't faced up against chryssalids yet so I hope the worst is yet to come.
Edit: Flashbangs are great and feel to me like they're the good version of a powerful tool. It doesn't disable enemies, they're still very lethal if they get off good shots. It changes enemy behaviour in a cool way. And it only affects enemies which are hit by it, although the AOE is very large.
Having come a bit further into the campaign (haven't gotten much play in it this week due to work) I feel as if the game could use a balance pass difficulty wise. Not just the mimic beacon and grenades, but there's so much powerful stuff that becomes available as you proceed. The AWC has a slot which doubles healing rates, which is really damn good but means that I'm now relying on a smaller set of elite units, since they generally heal up between missions like in the first game. I don't feel like I'm under that much pressure with that in place. And as hair tearing as it is, I like Xcom the most when I can't feel complacent like this.
Then again, I haven't faced up against chryssalids yet so I hope the worst is yet to come.
Edit: Flashbangs are great and feel to me like they're the good version of a powerful tool. It doesn't disable enemies, they're still very lethal if they get off good shots. It changes enemy behaviour in a cool way. And it only affects enemies which are hit by it, although the AOE is very large.
RandomSeed
Member
I like it. Modders....make that mod.
Actually, haywire protocol or domination are more powerful than using a mimic beacon for a turn. You can make a sectopod do nothing while you kill it, or just take control of the most powerful enemy that's near you squad...for the entire mission. You can even heal them up as they tank for your entire team.
I actually can't find vods of the run itself, BUT he's streamed I/I and Long War plenty of times, AND he made the game look easy before it came out, directly resulting in some significant balance changes. I wouldn't put it past him to have done it legit.
Assuming you're talking about the Alien's activation free move and not the more elaborate anti-concealment thing they added in response to Beaglerush (since you reference EU), this has been discussed to the death. The options are:
- Aliens don't get a free move. You pick off every pod as you encounter them because they're typically not patrolling in cover. On the flipside when aliens run into you on their turn they don't have that same advantage since you're going to be shimmying from cover to cover like a good commander. Game becomes ridiculously easy.
- Aliens don't get a free move, but likewise also patrol while in cover. Not only does this not make sense from a 'muh immersion' angle for XCOM2 since you're employing guerrilla tactics and aliens can't be expected to be on full alert all the time, it also poses some practical AI issues because for the aliens to pull this off properly, they'd need to 'know' where you are at all times so they can take appropriate cover, which is in itself going to cause lots of problems
- Aliens get a free move
Option 3 is the best solution, and like it or not, short of an entire rebalancing pass of the game, is very much a part of the game. Most of the good strategies revolve around leveraging what counters this - from overwatch traps, to concealed (ghost suit in the first game) recon + squadsight, etc. etc. There was one interaction with XCOM 2's concealment mechanic which broke this so much that Firaxis changed how it interacts with concealment. (thx Beaglerush)
I think my number one way to lose soldiers is guys that are like 3 tiles away from the evac point on the last turn. I don't mind having timed missions, but the game seems pretty unfair at times.
The combination of short timers and the way the pod system basically lets the aliens cheat by moving out of turn can put you in really unfair situations.
On the flip side, I really like getting panicked sometimes because it lets me shoot out of turn
Lanrutcon
Member
Would it be weird if I said mimic beacons are ok? Because I don't have an issue with them.
You want to nerf something, let's talk about grenades. There are only 2 things that balance grenades: throwing range, and the amount you can carry. Grenadiers bypass both those limits. Anyone who's played the game at this point have realised how grenadiers just don't have a drawback. They give no fucks about cover, or accuracy, or groups, LOS is a minor annoyance at best and they shred armor. A group running 4 grenadiers would pretty much take the difficulty curve and bend it over.
Edit:
I've watched his play in the past, and the man is very good. Whether he's no casualties of any kind on ironman legendary without ever having to copy his saved game in a very very buggy game good? Ehhh.
You want to nerf something, let's talk about grenades. There are only 2 things that balance grenades: throwing range, and the amount you can carry. Grenadiers bypass both those limits. Anyone who's played the game at this point have realised how grenadiers just don't have a drawback. They give no fucks about cover, or accuracy, or groups, LOS is a minor annoyance at best and they shred armor. A group running 4 grenadiers would pretty much take the difficulty curve and bend it over.
Edit:
I've watched his play in the past, and the man is very good. Whether he's no casualties of any kind on ironman legendary without ever having to copy his saved game in a very very buggy game good? Ehhh.
If they didn't do that you could just run a scout around the map and have 5 squadsight snipers pick everything off
Incendiary
Banned
Nope, they're reusable. Because when enemies shoot a beacon up we just dust it off and redeploy it next mission with no problem.
I guess I artificially limit myself on my beacon usage as well. I only have one and refuse to build anymore and only use it if I need a panic button or I'm facing a new enemy and want to see what they can do.
On the other hand, I'd love to see a mission played where all six soldiers have mimic beacons and they try to rescue a VIP/blow up a facility/etc. without firing a shot. Mimics only, Final Destination.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Mimic beacon fix idea: drop health a little, and make the taunt only last one turn.
Eh. It's a necessary evil, imo
Eh. It's a necessary evil, imo
The whole reason I never bothered was bc I thought they weren't reusable...man.
I'm all for finding cheap shit though, so I'll give it a try. Mimics everywhere! Two mimics for a grenadier!
RandomSeed
Member
Failing is a chance, true, but that sectopod could one shot your beacon also, leaving the rest of the enemies to do whatever they are going to do. By the time I ran into sectopods, I had/have about a 75% chance of just stunning them as soon as I see them.
I'd honestly chalk it up to how absurd Grenadiers and Mimic Beacons are. They're going to give a guy who's very good yet another additional edge. Also, remember he played the game to death prior to launch so he's not gonna fall for first-encounter gotchas like Andromedons or jacking a Captain, etc.
man pulling out burrowed chryssies without the benefit of a either scanners or a scan tech spec is tedious as balls. Thankfully it was on the codex location mission and thus I could spend all the time in the world crawling up until I heard the music change which meant I hadn't quite activated a chryssie but was going to get charged at on the next enemy turn.
they really ruin the 'move fast but stay cautious' gameflow, at least where I am.
they really ruin the 'move fast but stay cautious' gameflow, at least where I am.
I have no issue with it. The game would be too easy without it.
Lanrutcon
Member
You're probably right. Plus he comes off as a super nice guy who enjoys his audience.
RandomSeed
Member
Plus he has a girlfriend. I mean, how many guys that play fucking turn-based strategy games can say that?
Shake Appeal
Member
I think people's issue with the "free move" is a totally arbitrary feeling that it's somehow unfair. But the "free move" is just a simple rule that helps to set up interesting tactical encounters. Enjoy it; it's making your game experience better and more challenging. Learn to anticipate and adapt to it.
I have up most respect for people managing to do high end difficulties on Ironman and such, I just don't have the time a patience for it.
I have never watched any you tuber as I don't get the appeal of watching people play game, but far play to high end players such as Beaglerush, But I suppose once you get the right tactics, and understanding how the AI works, it makes games look easier than what they are. Its like Min/Max a RPG and stuff)
I am finding Veteran a good balance for me, I may do a harder play through when I have finished my other turn based games
I have never watched any you tuber as I don't get the appeal of watching people play game, but far play to high end players such as Beaglerush, But I suppose once you get the right tactics, and understanding how the AI works, it makes games look easier than what they are. Its like Min/Max a RPG and stuff)
I am finding Veteran a good balance for me, I may do a harder play through when I have finished my other turn based games
Incendiary
Banned
Grenadiers are stupid good when you get Salvo + Volatile Mix + Heavy Ordinance. On the other hand I've had my Sharpshooter take out a pod all by herself with Bluescreen Rounds + Face Off + Lightning Hands. And my Specialist with Guardian + Proving Ground Specialist Bonus + Advanced Stock & Auto Repeater has killed multiple guys through Overwatch. And my Ranger with Reaper + Proving Ground Ranger Bonus + Mobility PCS has decimated a squad as well.
I think all the classes are stupid good.
My point is, don't take my EMP grenades away from me. If you do I might cry.
I would encourage anyone who doesn't like the free move to get a mod that disables it (even EU had them) and play a couple of campaigns without it just to see how absurdly easy the game becomes.
At best, the game becomes something you enjoy (not being snarky here, you bought the game, enjoy it however you want) and at worst, you at least understand the logic behind the feature.
At best, the game becomes something you enjoy (not being snarky here, you bought the game, enjoy it however you want) and at worst, you at least understand the logic behind the feature.
Plus the enemy doesn't even get a free move if they spot you on their turn. And if you really have trouble with that mechanic then you can just get a concealment ranger. Do your first ambush, concealed ranger doesn't participate. Concealed ranger then goes on to spot the next enemies, starts the next ambush. Ranger then enters concealment again, repeat.
no problems with it in 2. My main issue with it in 1 was Cyberdiscs who could move across the entire map and wreck your squad with one weird LOS mistake on your final move.
But in 2 concealment helps a lot (always run a phantom ranger), and you've got more options for dealing with triggered pods. I once saved my sniper by blowing a hole in the roof after he aggroed a bunch of ADVENT on a balcony. And of course good old Holoduke.
Shake Appeal
Member
If you're really struggling with the "free move," just close your eyes when you stumble into a pod. Open then again and pretend you found the aliens in cover. Ta-da!
RandomSeed
Member
The aliens free move to cover in 2 is laughable thanks to all the options you now have to destroy cover. Like an evil laugh. I like it, I'm not complaining.
I like you
The Jackdog
Member
the amount of weapons and items and different moves you can pull of is awesome.
i didnt even know
existed.
i didnt even know
acid grenades
MonorailCat
Member
Last mission I found a Pod with 4 Mecs and 2 Heavy Mecs .. they pointed at me and thought they were really tough guys.
One EMP Bomb later they stopped laughing. Killed the 4 Mecs outright and the 2 heavies had 2hp left and were stunned.
Pretty good.
Haven't played it at the highest difficulties, maybe grenadiers are OP there. But I feel like they are as they should be. They do their job, destroying cover, debuffing enemies, doing AoE damage etc. If they didn't have increased grenade range and carry capacity, they'd be hands down the worst class.
All the classes feel extremely useful and "OP" in the right situation. I don't think I'd risk running 4 of any one class.
As for the mimic beacon, I've just started discovering how great it is. Truly a lifesaver. I'm sure they could tweak it but I like things that can keep your squad alive if you make a mistake. I mean sure you could carry a bunch of them with you on a mission, but that is a lot of inventory space that could have been used for grenades/ammo/etc.
I don't know why you don't regain concealment if you kill a cluster of enemies on their reaction turn.