Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Half the posts in the Controversial Gaming Opinions thread aren't controversial gaming opinions at all.
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Your controversial gaming opinions in regards to the state of the gaming industry
Killjoy-NL
Banned
If you want a controversial gaming opinion:
Most PC gamers are broke gamers who need to chase cheap deals because they actually can't afford gaming and to feel better (and hide this fact) they brag about high-end systems 90% of the PC gamers don't even own.
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Guilty_AI
Member
Also, GAAS should exclusively refer to f2p and subscription-based games
Sounds like the average snoy gaf opinion though.
Killjoy-NL
Banned
Apparently I'm a shill, so....
Guilty_AI
Member
btw, the opinion isn't completely incorrect, except for the fact you're conflating two very different publics...
Its true the vast majority of PC games are on a budget or don't sport super machines, i've said so myself plenty of times. But those are those, and the public buying high-end machines is another one with some overlap.
Saying PCMR are secretly using budget machines and bragging about specs is... i honestly can't even fathom how you came to such conclusion.
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Fabieter
Member
Sleeping dogs was developed in the west and it was just one example of great ips which died by bad day one sales.
Guilty_AI
Member
And also an example of how not to do releases, like i very clearly explained.
Fabieter
Member
Well there is also no better version later on if no one buys it day one and I also have to add that I don't mean preordering games but buying near launch.
Fabieter
Member
There are dozens of less interesting games which launch buggy with dozens of mtx with better sales but okay. I stand by the fact that gamers are at fault for the loss of some games.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
Maybe not shill but would sony defender be a more accurate term? You seem to get really defensive whenever Sony encounters the slightest amount of criticism, unusually more so than other users.
Guilty_AI
Member
More often than not they're from well-known IP or have been hyped for years before release. Sleeping Dogs was a game no one knew about who also happened to have a bad release, it was like SE was asking for it to flop. Heck, the game even did well on the first week before dropping off the charts.
SiahWester
Member
VR and PC (Steam) is the future of gaming. We'll see more 3rd person VR games and lighter headsets until it completely overtakes traditional monitors and TVs.
Nintendo and Sony will suffer next generation if they don't innovate.
Nintendo and Sony will suffer next generation if they don't innovate.
Fabieter
Member
Valve basically copied nintendo wtf.
Guilty_AI
Member
Now thats a controversial opinion.
Killjoy-NL
Banned
Idc what you call me, tbh. I'll just wear it as a badge of honor.
It won't change my opinions.
And people are free to criticise Sony. Most of the time, I'm looking at it from Sony's perspective and what would make sense for them as a business.
Doesn't necessarily reflect my opinion as a gamer.
Fabieter
Member
No its also new ips, games with potential, sometimes sequel or reboots.
People can do whatever with their money but I think its funny that alot od people buy hardware regularly which have insane margins and than cheap out on games and if publishers kill new ideas and ips those people bitch on the pubs for not trying or for not bringing xyz back.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Negotiator
Member
Why?
No Man's Sky doesn't classify as a GaaS?
What about Assassin's Creed Origins/Odyssey etc?
All these games belong in the SP category.
I honestly don't understand why GAF thinks GaaS == MP.
My definition of a GaaS goes like this:
It's a game that resembles a living organism that constantly evolves (new content updates).
Not a static "one and done" game, like we still live in the 80s/90s.
Negotiator
Member
I agree with almost everything you've said (especially milking TLOU multiple times in a row), except Uncharted. You lost me there.
Uncharted IP has been dead since 2017 (The Lost Legacy release, no more MP updates).
ND has never, ever made an Uncharted remaster. It's Bluepoint that remastered the PS3 trilogy back in 2015.
Apparently there was a rumor about Bend making an Uncharted 1 remake, but I think it got canned.
So yeah, Uncharted has been dead for a long time, sadly. There is no need to piss on its grave.
It's a shame, because there are many stories around the world to be told regarding lost civilizations/treasures (believe it or not, I'm hyped about the upcoming Indiana Jones game, since Sony refuses to give me my Uncharted fix) and even the MP had quite a traction back in the day (most popular Sony 1st party MP during the "failed" PS3 era).
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Zannegan
Member
And an RPG is any game in which you play a role, right?
Negotiator
Member
No, unless it gets new content updates as I said.
I would argue games like Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077 could classify as GaaS, but not every RPG is a GaaS.
Guilty_AI
Member
I think we live in different worlds because i've seen plenty of new IPs succeding. What these successful new games had different from the likes of Sleeping Dogs however, is that fact that they knew how to budget themselves better for the market they were appealing and generally had fair prices for what they offered.
Zannegan
Member
I meant that calling every game that gets updates and expansions a GaaS is the same fallacy as calling every game in which you play a role an RPG. These things have been around for years before the rise of the GaaS.
The difference is that GaaS are designed to enable long term monetization, so they're typically launched with as little content as the creators can get away with and the rest is released over time or dangled in front of you as an incentive for microtransactions. The continuous support these games receive is not for the sake of the game or the players, it's for the company. Players become the product.
EDIT: Hit post early by accident. Sorry, fat thumbs. Lol.
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Guilty_AI
Member
Let me put it differently: a critical element of what we consider a service, as opposed to a product, is a condition in which the service ends.
F2p is a 'free' service, and people can bounce in and out as they please for as long as it's available. A subscription has to last as long as the periodic fee the user paid says it does.
But what about a game like NMS? You bought it and you have it for life, there's no condition for its "end". Yes, it gets updates, but ultimately the end-product will still remain with you for life as long as you have the proper soft/hardware to run it.
Naturally, waters get muddied when we begin speaking of online-only games you must "buy". Is that really a service? How long did you buy that service for if so? It's honestly the part of gaming where things start sounding like a scam if scrutinized, since a contract which one party reserves the right to withdraw without consent or refunds whenever it feels like wouldn't survive in court in other industries.
ShadyAcshuns
Member
Open world fatigue is a real thing, just like first person shooter fatigue was in gen 7.
Negotiator
Member
No, I'm not going to call Quantic Dream games "RPGs" just because you play a role.
Cyberpunk in 2020 vs Cyberpunk in 2024 are 2 very different games.
Not only it got new content (some free, some paid), but also new mechanics, QoL updates (revised skill tree) etc. It didn't just get bug fixes (the bare minimum effort). CDPR went the extra mile.
Same for No Man's Sky and many other SP games.
Of course Fortnite is a GaaS too, since it's not exactly the same game it was back in 2017, but I don't think it's fair to narrow the definition of a GaaS down to MP/F2P. It's a bit dismissive.
I'd argue the first well-known GaaS was World of Warcraft back in 2004. Yes, the GaaS term didn't exist back then, but we're not here to argue semantics.
Regardless of personal preferences, all these games are living organisms that constantly evolve, they have occupied their fans for a long time and therefore it's not preposterous to say that they follow the GaaS model, more or less.
Imagine if no one bought NMS on day 1 (I agree it was a bit scammy to market an indie game as AAA, despite the fact it became AAA later on)... how would it look and play in 2024?
Every developer has to find its own niche in the industry and I believe all of them will follow the GaaS model at some point (that's another controversial opinion
), more or less successfully!GaaS is not an "insult" as GAF likes to think, nor the embodiment of devil in the gaming industry.
I wholeheartedly believe that if done right, it's beneficial for both gamers and companies = win-win situation.
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Negotiator
Member
You make some good points regarding the word "service", so I'm going to raise yet another controversial opinion:
Blockchain is also the future of gaming.
What do I mean by that?
How many times it saddened you when some online service got shut down?
It could be an online store (Wii U) or an online MP with no LAN mode support (I'm looking at you Splatoon 1)!
But what if these things actually ran on a decentralized blockchain?
Think of something like Bitcoin (been chugging along since 2009), but for gaming.
You wouldn't have any fear that the service might get shut down, right?
You would also be able to contribute to the network with a node/miner and even get paid with crypto tokens.
This isn't the proper thread to discuss blockchain technicalities, so let's keep it short:
Sooner or later everything will be blockchain-driven and if done properly (in a decentralized manner) the benefits will be huge for gamers.
You will even be able to sell "used" digital games without excessive fees and without having to trust a central party/custodian.
Sounds a lot better than Steam and GOG combined if you ask me.
Dr. Claus
Banned
No, I'm not going to call Quantic Dream games "RPGs" just because you play a role.
Cyberpunk in 2020 vs Cyberpunk in 2024 are 2 very different games.
Not only it got new content (some free, some paid), but also new mechanics, QoL updates (revised skill tree) etc. It didn't just get bug fixes (the bare minimum effort). CDPR went the extra mile.
Same for No Man's Sky and many other SP games.
Of course Fortnite is a GaaS too, since it's not exactly the same game it was back in 2017, but I don't think it's fair to narrow the definition of a GaaS down to MP/F2P. It's a bit dismissive.
I'd argue the first well-known GaaS was World of Warcraft back in 2004. Yes, the GaaS term didn't exist back then, but we're not here to argue semantics.
Regardless of personal preferences, all these games are living organisms that constantly evolve, they have occupied their fans for a long time and therefore it's not preposterous to say that they follow the GaaS model, more or less.
Imagine if no one bought NMS on day 1 (I agree it was a bit scammy to market an indie game as AAA, despite the fact it became AAA later on)... how would it look and play in 2024?
Every developer has to find its own niche in the industry and I believe all of them will follow the GaaS model at some point (that's another controversial opinion
GaaS is not an "insult" as GAF likes to think, nor the embodiment of devil in the gaming industry.
I wholeheartedly believe that if done right, it's beneficial for both gamers and companies = win-win situation.
So you are just Men In Boxes’ less blatant alt. Gotcha.
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Guilty_AI
Member
I mean, i get what you're saying but this is the kind of thing that need to catch on among the actual publishers and developers in order to go anywhere.
As it is, there's little to no incentive for them to put their games on blockchains. I can only see this happening if its pushed by external factors, like new legislation or novel pieces of technology changing how the market works. But they're not just going to start doing this out of nowhere.
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Negotiator
Member
I have no idea who that guy is, but I'll just tell you I've been here since 2011. What about you?
I've never had any alt accounts, but if you insist, you can just ask
EviLore
to do an account/IP check.Negotiator
Member
Just because I've been here for a long time, it doesn't mean I have to be aware of every internal GAF joke.
So, care to fill me in?
SiahWester
Member
Yeah but Valve is a consumer friendly company. They have fairer terms of service, their prices are better, and they let you do whatever you'd like with your hardware. I have my entire childhood video game collection on my Steam Deck along with all of my Steam games. You simply cannot beat that. Nintendo didn't even gives us simple themes on Switch.
The longer the Deck is around the easier it becomes for the average person to take advantage of its benefits. The Deck has improved immensely since launch and its only getting better with each iteration.
If Nintendo simply makes the Switch 2 slightly upgraded hardware they'll fizzle out. Considering their CEO is not a creative person, but a financial guy, they might not innovate in the way we've known them to in the past. We'll see...
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I think you overemphasize the "critical element" here as it's a topic almost nobody cares about. Gamers, developers, and publishers find the most vital part of a game to be the revenue generating years.
It's like saying we shouldn't call Michael Jordan a great basketball player because of his Wizards years. He's defined as a basketball player for his tenure as a Chicago Bull.
No Mans Sky will stop receiving updates when Hello Games believes the updates aren't generating profit. The fact that very few people will play the game 5 years after its last update shouldn't be considered critical to its definition as a GAAS.
It's such a strange angle to take.
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ShadyAcshuns
Member
Let's see if I got this right. You think Switch 2 can't compete with Steam Deck? Is that what you're saying here?
Negotiator
Member
Steam is not even like GOG, let alone Nintendo that provides actual physical game ownership (that classifies as consumer friendly in my book, but I don't expect everyone to have the same definition).
As soon as Nintendo ditches physical media (not gonna happen with Switch 2), I'm going to switch (pun intended) to emulation. It will be their loss.
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Shadowstar39
Member
Controversial (for this site
Switch is the best console and has the best games (outside of pc that is).
4k resolution was too much too soon.
1080p is good enough.
30fps is fine for certain games if it's smooth and warranted. 60fps is preferable.
Online co-op is shit as it gives devs an excuse to not make local co-op.
Mortal Kombat is the funnest fighting game series.
Eastern Europe and Asia make the best AAA games this gen.
Roguelikes, 4x tbs and City Builders are awesome (my favorite genres anymore!
2d indie pixel games are great (songs of syx, streets of rogue, curse of the moon, etc)
We need more AA devs
Non controversial (here but is on reddit, and other places):
ESG /DEI must die
Down with SBI and the like.
Switch is the best console and has the best games (outside of pc that is).
4k resolution was too much too soon.
1080p is good enough.
30fps is fine for certain games if it's smooth and warranted. 60fps is preferable.
Online co-op is shit as it gives devs an excuse to not make local co-op.
Mortal Kombat is the funnest fighting game series.
Eastern Europe and Asia make the best AAA games this gen.
Roguelikes, 4x tbs and City Builders are awesome (my favorite genres anymore!
2d indie pixel games are great (songs of syx, streets of rogue, curse of the moon, etc)
We need more AA devs
Non controversial (here but is on reddit, and other places):
ESG /DEI must die
Down with SBI and the like.
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Guilty_AI
Member
Don't worry, the law cares very much about this critical element. Its the difference between buying a car and taking an uber.
-NMS is like a car Hello games sold to the user, and they offer to come to your house and give it free upgrades indefinitely. The car will still be yours after they stop coming.
-WoW is like Blizzard renting you a car, where you pay a periodic fee and you can use the car during that period. They'll maintain the car, upgrade it, and perhaps even give you a personal driver in the meantime.
-Then, The Crew is like Ubisoft sold you a car, but there was a fine print in the contract saying they could enter your house and burn the car down whenever they felt like.
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I guess in order of who's opinion I'd care about most it would be...
1. Players.
2. Devs / Publishers
...
...
...
927. The Law
Hello Games considers No Mans Sky to be a Live Service title. I'm satisfied with their definition, as I think most are.
Kataploom
Gold Member
Re-releases are GREAT cheap and financially responsible way to keep the industry healthy, not only most of those games released when a lot of young people weren't even born, but also those of us that couldn't play those games for whatever reason get basically new experiences without breaking the bank most of the time
kungfuian
Member
The industry would be better off solving the 'discovery' problem than many of the problems they seem fixated on. Gamers desperately need tools to reduce the bombardment of bullshit we aren't interested in and don't want to see!
Seems simple enough. The industry has grown so large, and serves such a wide variety of gamers, that 90% of what's on offer is likely not going to appeal to the average 'hard core gamer' and if your tastes are more narrow (for example you only like AAA, or only like single player games), or if they are even more narrow still (only like single player games that have x amount of length and x amount of difficulty) , then your chances of finding something you actually like is like finding a needle in a hay stack.
Because of this the discovery process SUCKS and finding great games that also appeal to your tastes is a total pain in the ass. More than any game or feature, I just wish I could turn off 90% of gaming news based on my personal tastes to filter that shit out. For example I could care less about JRPGs, base building, RTS, or Multiplayer anything. I dream of a button I hit that makes that shit disappear for ever from Steam, GAF, PS Store, newsfeeds, etc.
Seems simple enough. The industry has grown so large, and serves such a wide variety of gamers, that 90% of what's on offer is likely not going to appeal to the average 'hard core gamer' and if your tastes are more narrow (for example you only like AAA, or only like single player games), or if they are even more narrow still (only like single player games that have x amount of length and x amount of difficulty) , then your chances of finding something you actually like is like finding a needle in a hay stack.
Because of this the discovery process SUCKS and finding great games that also appeal to your tastes is a total pain in the ass. More than any game or feature, I just wish I could turn off 90% of gaming news based on my personal tastes to filter that shit out. For example I could care less about JRPGs, base building, RTS, or Multiplayer anything. I dream of a button I hit that makes that shit disappear for ever from Steam, GAF, PS Store, newsfeeds, etc.
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Negotiator
Member
I've been saying NMS is a GaaS long before Hello Games did:
Hell, I even remember NMS fanatics getting triggered ("No, it's not a GaaS, there are no MTX!").
A GaaS may or may not have MTX, it's not a prerequisite.
FFS, I really wish my favorite franchises had the same treatment as NMS.
I'm not trying to trigger anyone, in fact I consider NMS fans extremely privileged/lucky (minus the unfortunate launch of course) for getting that amount of support nearly for free.
dem
Member
All your favourite games suck
Everything we thought we wanted in the early 2000s... sucked in reality. 99% of your open world games are fucking dogshit. They aren't fun, and they aren't games. If your game has a story... it probably fucking sucks.
Fortnite is the best of gaming
Everything we thought we wanted in the early 2000s... sucked in reality. 99% of your open world games are fucking dogshit. They aren't fun, and they aren't games. If your game has a story... it probably fucking sucks.
Fortnite is the best of gaming
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justiceiro
Marlboro: Other M
I'm okay with the direction is going. I mean, big games don't see to be doing great lately, but the quality of free games has sky rocketed. Almost everything I want comes on subscription service these days and more console games than ever are coming to PC. Even if the industry collapsed tomorrow, I already have more games to try than my entire lifetime will allow it. Everything else is a bonus.
Fabieter
Member
Iam not big on nintendo but if they deliver on exclusive games like they did with switch 1 and likely have better 3p support through more power and dlss than it will likely sell just as good as switch 1. They won't a problem selling. People begged them to just do a switch 2 and they would be stupid not to do exactly that.
MacReady13
Member
This is the only correct answer. They closed the studio down cause the game didn’t sell enough copies cause they released it on their sub service! Why is this so hard for people to understand?
