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Zelda: BOTW Timeline Discussion *UNMARKED SPOILERS*

F

Fourth Storm

Member
In Zelda's voice over from the E3 demo (on top of the Resurrection Tower), she talks about "when the beast regains its true power." This implies that Calamity Ganon is not Ganon's optimal form, but a weakened one. It also implies that at one point, Ganon did reach his highest potential.

Again, this points towards the Imprisoning War to me. The only thing to reconcile is how it all happened. The Hyrule Hystoria mentions Zelda and the Seven Sages sealing Ganon after Link fails. Then, after an unspecified time, Ganon's corruption emerges once more along with his transmogrified army of Triforce-seakers. I wonder if Nintendo aren't abridging this scenario somewhat, so that Ganon never truly disappears between the end of OoT and the beginning of The Imprisoning War. This would match the report of Ganon appearing "suddenly." Then again, were Hyrule commoners aware of Ganondorf's maneuvering during OoT? I can't recall if any NPCs imply one way or another.
 
M

marcbret87

Member
ckaneo said:
The problem with the Zelda timeline is that they added the multiverse when they did that link is defeated downfall timeline. At that point they could add whatever anywhere since the time stream no longer is straight. At least with OOT, we had a time breaking event to alter the stream instead of random chance.
Click to expand...

This. Adding another time with the the hero failing seems a bit random unless BoTW provides a good reason for that.
 
balgajo

balgajo

Member
Maybe it's after Skyward Sword and before Ocarina of time. Maybe Deku Tree is the first version and Temple of Time was reconstructed after the end of BOTW.
Sheikah were almost inexistent in Ocarina of Time.

But Ganon already exists so I don't really know....XD
 
R

R0ckman

Member
Nintendo is better off moving away from that timeline mess and stacking on top Spirit Tracks indefinitely.

kewlmyc said:
So Ganon != Ganondorf? Never got this.
Click to expand...

Ganon keeps coming back, sometimes dormant in the form of a man, sometimes just as the pig, in this case a catastrophe I guess?
 
E

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
Fourth Storm said:
In Zelda's voice over from the E3 demo (on top of the Resurrection Tower), she talks about "when the beast regains its true power." This implies that Calamity Ganon is not Ganon's optimal form, but a weakened one. It also implies that at one point, Ganon did reach his highest potential.

Again, this points towards the Imprisoning War to me. The only thing to reconcile is how it all happened. The Hyrule Hystoria mentions Zelda and the Seven Sages sealing Ganon after Link fails. Then, after an unspecified time, Ganon's corruption emerges once more along with his transmogrified army of Triforce-seakers. I wonder if Nintendo aren't abridging this scenario somewhat, so that Ganon never truly disappears between the end of OoT and the beginning of The Imprisoning War. This would match the report of Ganon appearing "suddenly." Then again, were Hyrule commoners aware of Ganondorf's maneuvering during OoT? I can't recall if any NPCs imply one way or another.
Click to expand...

I guess you could say he appeared suddenly prior to OoT's events. But I mean he did instigate a coup d'eta in the Castle in OoT and likely won which allowed him to chase after Zelda and then enter the ToT to try and grab the Triforce at which point he then ruled over the Kingdom for 7 years, so yeah I'd say the people were aware of his maneuvering during OoT.

What I don't think many people were aware of was Pig Ganon, so the sudden appearance of a giant ethereal boar in the sky would probably freak people out and be quite a surprise but to happen during his rule over Hyrule wouldn't exactly be sudden. It would probably be yet another horrific event in 7 long years of horrific events.

The only way the Imprisoning War works is if this is a new Link and Zelda, not OoT's. Because you need for there to be a time of peace and prosperity so that Ganon's return is sudden and unexpected, you need time for them to build a new Hyrule Castle and Castle Town to the north. You need time for the Great Deku Tree sprout to grow into the giant full grown version we see here. And you need to ignore the now official canon of Hyrule Historia that says Ganon and his army was defeated without the help of a hero and the Master Sword.
 
B

Busaiku

Member
I just can't see this taking place before any other game with Ganon, because it seems like Calamity Canon has been a force of nature for some time.
 
E

ElFly

Member
Man, the Wind Waker timeline is dire as fuck. One mainline game, two spinoffs from it

at least Majora has TP to accompany it


I guess that's what happens when you abandon Hyrule on it. Maybe they will go back to Hyrule at some point?

or just ignore the whole timeline for a while
 
F

Fandangox

Member
Admiral Woofington said:
His pig form also dresses like a human and takes over the farm.
Click to expand...

latest
 
M

Mr-Joker

Banned
I still don't think that Link in Breath of the Wild is the same Link from Ocarina of Time as that Link was Left handed and the one in Breath of the Wild is Right handed.

I do however agreed that could be in the failed timeline sitting in between Ocarina of Time and Link To the Past.
 
I

Inferno313

Banned
It has to be set either post-OOT or post-WW, with this Link being one of those two Links. The Deku Tree here implies that he knew Link long ago, before he was put into cryo-stasis or whatever we want to call that Shiekah pod. There's only two Links that have known Deku Trees, the hero of time and the hero of winds.

I expect it to be OOT Link, since Nintendo loves their OOT fanservice. However, I'll shit bricks if this is Wind Waker Link all grown up.
 
F

Fourth Storm

Member
Enduin said:
I guess you could say he appeared suddenly prior to OoT's events. But I mean he did instigate a coup d'eta in the Castle in OoT and likely won which allowed him to chase after Zelda and then enter the ToT to try and grab the Triforce at which point he then ruled over the Kingdom for 7 years, so yeah I'd say the people were aware of his maneuvering during OoT.

What I don't think many people were aware of was Pig Ganon, so the sudden appearance of a giant ethereal boar in the sky would probably freak people out and be quite a surprise but to happen during his rule over Hyrule wouldn't exactly be sudden. It would probably be yet another horrific event in 7 long years of horrific events.

The only way the Imprisoning War works is if this is a new Link and Zelda, not OoT's. Because you need for there to be a time of peace and prosperity so that Ganon's return is sudden and unexpected, you need time for them to build a new Hyrule Castle and Castle Town to the north. You need time for the Great Deku Tree sprout to grow into the giant full grown version we see here. And you need to ignore the now official canon of Hyrule Historia that says Ganon and his army was defeated without the help of a hero and the Master Sword.
Click to expand...

These are all good points, except I see the geography and castle design as more of an artistic/game design choice rather than a storyline one. The Sprout being fully grown would be strange, but do we know all the details of a Deku tree's lifecycle? Perhaps, like some species, they reach maturity very quickly.

I agree that people should have been aware of Ganondorf during the seven years between eras in OoT. Still trying to work that out, but I am with others in thinking that adding a second fallen hero to the timeline would be a strange choice considering we only heard of the first one a few years back.

Other inconsistencies with OoT: The clothes Link gets upon waking in BotW are a bit too small, yet as an adult in OoT, he is what? 17? He should be fully grown at that point. Perhaps Nintendo are setting Link's defeat back earlier in that game? Perhaps he tried to challenge Ganon as a child and lost?

I am not fully convinced what we see of Link and Zelda fighting together in the trailers is all flashback, btw. Could be, but it could also be during the course of the game. The Master Sword Link holds is the damaged one in at least one promo shot.
 
B

Big One

Banned
It's either two points imo.

Ocarina of Time -> Breath of the Wild -> A Link to the Past

It's completely possible Breath of the Wild Link is the Hero of Time after being defeated. We already know 100 years ago, Link was "defeated" by Ganon and the Sheikah sealed Ganon inside of Hyrule Castle. It's hard to say for sure but seems the most likely.

A Link Between Worlds -> Triforce Heroes -> Breath of the Wild -> Legend of Zelda -> Adventure of Link

On the flipside, it has been directly stated in-game that Ganon is tied into the "history" of the Royal Family. This suggest Ganon has been around longer than just 100 years, despite Ocarina of Time being the debut of Ganon. There's also many parallels being made by Nintendo to the original Legend of Zelda. Could this game be a retelling of the Sleeping Zelda story from Zelda II? Maybe by the end of the game, Zelda goes to "sleep" as a parallel to Link sleeping at the beginning of the game.
 
A

Aaronrules380

Member
Inferno313 said:
It has to be set either post-OOT or post-WW, with this Link being one of those two Links. The Deku Tree here implies that he knew Link long ago, before he was put into cryo-stasis or whatever we want to call that Shiekah pod. There's only two Links that have known Deku Trees, the hero of time and the hero of winds.

I expect it to be OOT Link, since Nintendo loves their OOT fanservice. However, I'll shit bricks if this is Wind Waker Link all grown up.
Click to expand...

WW-Link left Hyrule forever, which would include leaving the deku tree behind. Regardless, I don't think you can rule out a new Link since nothing stops a new one from having known the great Deku tree
 
I

Inferno313

Banned
Aaronrules380 said:
WW-Link left Hyrule forever, which would include leaving the deku tree behind. Regardless, I don't think you can rule out a new Link since nothing stops a new one from having known the great Deku tree
Click to expand...

True, but when the final trailer draws special attention to the great deku tree and the fact that he knows this Link, I think that's a pretty big clue that this IS a previous Link. And, that his history with the great deku tree is a reference to another game, and not something that's just going to be shown in a flashback in this one.
 
W

War Eagle

Member
grandjedi6 said:
It's probably Nintendo taking advantage of the nonsense downfall timeline they added.
Click to expand...

I think you hit the nail on the head here. I'm going with downfall timeline because that's the only timeline that doesn't have a post OoT story to flesh out what happened, unlike the other two timelines with MM/TP, and WW. Yes we have ALttP, but that was made before OoT. Plus a lot of fans were taken my surprise to see a third timeline and Zelda fans being Zelda fans, a lot of people were annoyed that a 'the hero failed lol' timeline even exists. I think this story is about the hero that fails (hence link waking up in the chamber after 100 years), and they will retcon the HH portion of where it says 'The Hero Fails' branching down from OoT (which seems to insinuate that the hero fails in OoT).

As far as actual in-game evidence--I don't have too much to add. Nintendo is clearly having a blast fucking with us fans trying to figure out which timeline this is set in because there are elements of all three timelines here. I am going with DT because it'd be easiest to add those things to this timeline and retcon the shit out of it because most of the games in this timeline are so old.

My thoughts/opinions:

  • Deku tree created Koroks because the kokiri were defenseless when the hero failed and the woods were attacked.
  • I don't think the bird race are Ritos.
  • The salt from the sea is a reference to the sea mentioned in SS rather than WW.
  • That very clearly looks like Hyrule Castle Town from TP burning in the last trailer. Probably a flashback.
  • Wolf Link is Amibo only and will work more like a fun easter egg rather than a component of the story/timeline. I think we will be able to tame other animals in the game.
  • The Temple of time is from OoT.
  • Zelda putting the Master Sword in the woods in front of the Great Deku Tree (in the last trailer) explains how it ended up in the lost woods in ALttP.

What I am most curious about is whether or not there will be a time travel component to this game. Will we be able to go back to Hyrule before Calamity Gannon attacked, or will it be only shown in flashbacks (presumably related to those flowers)? If there is a time travel component, I would not be surprised if this game somehow united all three timelines to make the whole thing less of a clusterfuck in the future.
 
S

Soroc

Member
I think they will stick this game between The Golden Era and The Era of Decline in the Fallen Hero timeline.

The 100 years that is in reference
The flashbacks showing a prosperous Hyrule
The Sheikah technology and original Zelda dungeon looks
The world looks in decline (when Link wakes up)

I think this might take place just before the original Legend of Zelda or possibly after Zelda 2. I'm hoping for a time mechanic though and not just flashbacks.
 
G

gafneo

Banned
The game takes place in all 3 timeline splits near the end. Calamity Ganon is all Ganons rolled into one. This game is the revolations of the series. Everything is in ruins. Another sign is that red Zoras only appeared at the end of the timeline. No Zora started out red, turned blue, then red again. You could argue though that there have been multiple colors all along.
 
A

ArchedThunder

Banned
Relix said:
I think it fits before Wind Waker. It mentions a failed hero, so this could be it.
Click to expand...

No, it says that the Hero never returned after defeating Ganon. Wind Waker comes off of the adult timeline of OoT, when Link was sent back in time after beating Ganon there wasn't a copy of him left over so that world was left without a hero and then when Ganon came back there was no one to stop him.
 
E

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
Fourth Storm said:
These are all good points, except I see the geography and castle design as more of an artistic/game design choice rather than a storyline one. The Sprout being fully grown would be strange, but do we know all the details of a Deku tree's lifecycle? Perhaps, like some species, they reach maturity very quickly.
Click to expand...

That's a viable option in any other situation as they've played around with geography a lot. But the Great Plateau is pretty much without question old Hyrule Castle and Town. Beyond the Temple of Time being there the outline and layout of OoT's Castle Town is clearly present. The Fountain remains, as does the gate into town and the wall surrounding it. Even the small gateway leading up to Hyrule Castle is present.

So we pretty clearly have the existence of an old and new Hyrule Castle and Castle Town in the game.

Big One said:
It's either two points imo.

Ocarina of Time -> Breath of the Wild -> A Link to the Past

It's completely possible Breath of the Wild Link is the Hero of Time after being defeated. We already know 100 years ago, Link was "defeated" by Ganon and the Sheikah sealed Ganon inside of Hyrule Castle. It's hard to say for sure but seems the most likely.

A Link Between Worlds -> Triforce Heroes -> Breath of the Wild -> Legend of Zelda -> Adventure of Link

On the flipside, it has been directly stated in-game that Ganon is tied into the "history" of the Royal Family. This suggest Ganon has been around longer than just 100 years, despite Ocarina of Time being the debut of Ganon. There's also many parallels being made by Nintendo to the original Legend of Zelda. Could this game be a retelling of the Sleeping Zelda story from Zelda II? Maybe by the end of the game, Zelda goes to "sleep" as a parallel to Link sleeping at the beginning of the game.
Click to expand...

I'm still partial to a post Zelda II setting myself. Ganon at that point is dead but his spirit and followers are still trying to find a way to resurrect him. Namely using Link's blood. His Calamity appearance could be a result of some attempt to bring him back. Pre LoZ is certainly viable too though. We know little of the Golden Age that preceded the original game.

If it is Post OoT and Pre ALttP I just can't see it being OoT Link. That would require so many changes to the original game to make him fit. It would have to be some time later between the two games with a new Link and Zelda to explain the drastic changes and additions to the world that were not present at the end of OoT.
 
W

War Eagle

Member
Inferno313 said:
The Deku Tree here implies that he knew Link long ago, before he was put into cryo-stasis or whatever we want to call that Shiekah pod. There's only two Links that have known Deku Trees, the hero of time and the hero of winds.
Click to expand...

It's possible that this could be a third--The Deku tree is referencing what happened 100 years ago when he knew him and this part of the game will be shown in flashbacks or may involve time traveling to be played.
 
B

Blues1990

Member
Soroc said:
I think they will stick this game between The Golden Era and The Era of Decline in the Fallen Hero timeline.

The 100 years that is in reference
The flashbacks showing a prosperous Hyrule
The Sheikah technology and original Zelda dungeon looks
The world looks in decline (when Link wakes up)

I think this might take place just before the original Legend of Zelda or possibly after Zelda 2. I'm hoping for a time mechanic though and not just flashbacks.
Click to expand...

I share a similar train of thought, especially with how the game itself is such a big throwback to the first two NES Zelda games. Then there's the fact that several people (such as this fella) have made a sound argument about the game taking place in the Fallen Hero Timeline (with referencing the LTTP Japanese manual) that Calamity Ganon resembles the evil smoke seeping from the Sacred Realm & it made headway to Hyrule Castle.
 
S

Soroc

Member
Blues1990 said:
I share a similar train of thought, especially with how the game itself is such a big throwback to the first two NES Zelda games. Then there's the fact that several people (such as this fella) have made a sound argument about the game taking place in the Fallen Hero Timeline (with referencing the LTTP Japanese manual) that Calamity Ganon resembles the evil smoke seeping from the Sacred Realm & it made headway to Hyrule Castle.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link to that video. Yeah that adds more weight to our thoughts on the fallen timeline. Those were some really good catches by that youtuber. Seems like he believes it might be prior to LTTP though? I'm hopeful its either just before OG Zelda or Zelda 2 personally.
 
C

Caelus

Member
I think the right handedness of this Link is fairly important in cancelling out the idea that he could be a Link from a previous game.

They've always been consistent with the hand he uses to wield the sword and shield, even the Hero's Shade - which is the Hero of Time's ghost - is left-handed.

And I doubt this is Skyward Sword Link as he would have died prior to Ganondorf's birth.

So I'm thinking this is an entirely different Link and Zelda positioned somewhere on the Downfall Timeline, they might retcon the lack of Shiekah or Hylia in the other Downfall games.
 
E

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
Soroc said:
Thanks for the link to that video. Yeah that adds more weight to our thoughts on the fallen timeline. Those were some really good catches by that youtuber. Seems like he believes it might be prior to LTTP though? I'm hopeful its either just before OG Zelda or Zelda 2 personally.
Click to expand...

A very very very unlikely, near impossible but it is Nintendo, scenario is that this is a remake/softboot of the original LoZ. They certainly have gone out of their way to make allusions to that game at every turn.

The original LoZ and Zelda II remain the two least compatible games in the series' greater lore that really began in earnest with ALttP and was solidified and anchored around OoT. Their back stories and events kind of don't meld with the rest of the series as we know it. Would certainly make a lot of people lose their shit.
 
E

ED Cantu

Member
Soroc said:
I think they will stick this game between The Golden Era and The Era of Decline in the Fallen Hero timeline.

The 100 years that is in reference
The flashbacks showing a prosperous Hyrule
The Sheikah technology and original Zelda dungeon looks
The world looks in decline (when Link wakes up)

I think this might take place just before the original Legend of Zelda or possibly after Zelda 2. I'm hoping for a time mechanic though and not just flashbacks.
Click to expand...

I also think the game might take place after Zelda II, the old woman that talks in the trailer (Impa maybe?) says that "the Calamity Ganon is a primal evil that has endured over the ages" since Ganon's first appearence is in OoT I really can't belive the game would take place right after Ocarina because a 100 years hardly could count as "ages"

My theory is that after Zelda II Hyrule prospered for some time, and then Ganon came back or tried to, Link and Zelda try to stop him but fail to do so with Link ending dead or severly injured so he has to be put in the resurecction chamber for 100 years, meanwhile Zelda seals Ganon within Hyrule's castle with her power after taking the Master sword to the Deku tree to keep it safe until Link returns.
 
P

PrimeBeef

Member
Fourth Storm said:
In Zelda's voice over from the E3 demo (on top of the Resurrection Tower), she talks about "when the beast regains its true power." This implies that Calamity Ganon is not Ganon's optimal form, but a weakened one. It also implies that at one point, Ganon did reach his highest potential.
Click to expand...

Or that Calamity Ganon is not at full strength at the moment.
 
E

Eylos

Banned
maybe calimity ganon is a name given to the demise hate soul, and for whatever reason, the gerudo in OoT have given the kid the same name
 
B

Blues1990

Member
Soroc said:
Thanks for the link to that video. Yeah that adds more weight to our thoughts on the fallen timeline. Those were some really good catches by that youtuber. Seems like he believes it might be prior to LTTP though? I'm hopeful its either just before OG Zelda or Zelda 2 personally.
Click to expand...

I hope it does takes place after Zelda II, as that game had ended on a high note with Hyrule being saved from Ganon's resurrection, and it would make sense for that kingdom to go through a period of piece/prosperity before shit hits the fan once more. Would be great if Link can obtain the White & Magic Swords (before obtaining the Master Sword) during his quest, which will further tie it all together.

And then there's the whole thing with Link's century-long dirt nap. Regardless of the age, that guy sure loves his naps.
 
S

Skittzo0413

Member
It's clearly on the fallen hero timeline, that's pretty obvious as many have stated.

It could very well be OoT Link though, which I personally don't like. The map translation essentially says that Link and Zelda failed to defeat Ganon, and then the guardians and divine beasts awoke. So the lack of guardians/divine beasts in OoT isn't a problem here. However, depending on which parts of the latest trailer are flashbacks/memories and which are current, then there may be guardians hunting Link and Zelda. In that case, OoT Link wouldn't make sense. The geography also suggests it's not post-OoT but they always take liberties with that.

It's likely somewhere else on the fallen hero timeline, potentially before ALttP, but I'm hopeful it's actually post AoL. AoL had by far the largest Hyrule we've seen before BotW, and the maps (barring Death Mountain which admittedly is a big hole here) match up fairly decently. AoL also has the Fokka enemies which look very similar to the new bird people. I don't have any other evidence for this though, so who knows. That's just what I'm hoping for.
 
W

War Eagle

Member
ED Cantu said:
I also think the game might take place after Zelda II, the old woman that talks in the trailer (Impa maybe?) says that "the Calamity Ganon is a primal evil that has endured over the ages" since Ganon's first appearence is in OoT I really can't belive the game would take place right after Ocarina because a 100 years hardly could count as "ages"

My theory is that after Zelda II Hyrule prospered for some time, and then Ganon came back or tried to, Link and Zelda try to stop him but fail to do so with Link ending dead or severly injured so he has to be put in the resurecction chamber for 100 years, meanwhile Zelda seals Ganon within Hyrule's castle with her power after taking the Master sword to the Deku tree to keep it safe until Link returns.
Click to expand...

I've interpreted this quote, along with the quote about it being tied to the royal family as Ganon having the spirit of Demise and the royal family having the spirit of Hylia.
 
S

Soroc

Member
Enduin said:
A very very very unlikely, near impossible but it is Nintendo, scenario is that this is a remake/softboot of the original LoZ. They certainly have gone out of their way to make allusions to that game at every turn.

The original LoZ and Zelda II remain the two least compatible games in the series' greater lore that really began in earnest with ALttP and was solidified and anchored around OoT. Their back stories and events kind of don't meld with the rest of the series as we know it. Would certainly make a lot of people lose their shit.
Click to expand...

I have had the feeling they may retcon Zelda 1 and 2 into this game and that still could be a possibility. Anything Nintendo decides to do though will make a lot of people lose their shit, that's a battle that can't be won lol

ED Cantu said:
I also think the game might take place after Zelda II, the old woman that talks in the trailer (Impa maybe?) says that "the Calamity Ganon is a primal evil that has endured over the ages" since Ganon's first appearence is in OoT I really can't belive the game would take place right after Ocarina because a 100 years hardly could count as "ages"

My theory is that after Zelda II Hyrule prospered for some time, and then Ganon came back or tried to, Link and Zelda try to stop him but fail to do so with Link ending dead or severly injured so he has to be put in the resurecction chamber for 100 years, meanwhile Zelda seals Ganon within Hyrule's castle with her power after taking the Master sword to the Deku tree to keep it safe until Link returns.
Click to expand...

One of the reasons I like to put it around Zelda 1 and 2 is because based off this trailer it seems to fit the "Zelda Tragedy" part of the fallen timeline. Would round out a trilogy that starts at the "end of time" within the fallen hero timeline and either through time mechanic or just flashback, experience the story of those 100 years.
 
B

Busaiku

Member
Why would they specifically designate it as Calamity Ganon if it wasn't a somewhat different entity than the standard Ganon.
 
C

Cid Highwind

Banned
I'm still in the camp that each new Zelda is its own thing and the timeline stuff is an afterthought to appease fans who like that kind of stuff.
 
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