CrazyDogg77
Member
Shit man the best money.
Piers Morgan: If black Americans want the N-word to die, they will have to kill it
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Shit man the best money.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It's not pedantry. Words mean things. There's not really a functional difference. It's the same fuckin (fucking) word.
Again - it's misguided/misplaced attention being focused on whether a consonant is being dropped, as opposed to paying attention to the person using the word, and their intent in using it, and the continued propping up of that misconception has caused it to be internalized by a lot of people.
Now, usually when the "er" is being used, it's a subtle (maybe even subconscious) means to use correct (i.e. "white") pronunciation to make the usage even more pointed, thus buying into and reinforcing (even on a small scale) the power structure that caused the word to be used, and the need for the word to be reclaimed in the first place. So if that's what you're getting at, I don't necessarily disagree, but that again feeds back into ingrained bullshit people have been taught at a young age regarding which races are allowed to speak english "correctly" without fear of social repercussion - but that doesn't change the fact the word is exactly the same regardless the pronunciation. It's a matter of who is using it, and the manner in which they're using it.
Gotdatmoney
Member
I'm black and I don't really use the N word unless I got some mad rap going on in the background (how can you not, it's in every other word for a lot of artists) or I'm ranting to myself about James Harden on defense. I personally don't get why white people wanna fight for the use of this word though. It doesn't enhance your quality of life nor does it make you more respectable or "in". When I hear suburban white kids saying nigga they just look really fucking stupid. When I hear suburban black kids say it I just kind of say w/e to it. If you grew up in the hood I understand that you hear that word often and it get's integrated. But when I hear that shit in middle class white neighbourhoods it's just 12 degrees of stupid to me. I can't even bother anymore though, I hear a white person say it and if they catch themselves saying it in front of me and apologize all I say is I don't realy enjoy hearing the word in conversation. That's about it.
It's not even the correct context. It comes from "your humble servant" and isn't a derogatory term, it's just one of those made-up etymologies from people who put 2 and 2 together and got 5. Like people who think "fag" comes from the idea that gay men were burned at the stakes (thus like sticks = "fags"), which is completely false as the actual origin is extremely innocuous by comparison.
D1renegade
Member
Black Americans don't use "nigger" as a term of endearment, Piers..
karasu
Member
I agree with you. I grew up saying the word out of reflex more than anything else. As far as I knew, there were no variations in meaning dependent upon whether you ended with an 'er' or an 'a' sound. The 'a' is just how words that ended with 'er' sounded when we said them. 'Motherfucker' was muthafucka, for example. I don't use the word anymore though. I heard more and more that people in the 60's and 70's used the word to remind each other than they were just another nigga in the eyes of the white man. To me, it's pretty shitty to define ourselves through the hateful eyes of old oppressors. So I stopped using it for the most part. I slip every now and again though.
Because that is what it is always. How dare black people tell white people what they can or can't say!
He knows how to appeal to his racist viewers.
Mammoth Jones
Member
I'm sorry but that's bullshit when the entire context of the word has historically been different when Blacks use it between ourselves compared to the historical legacy of when others have used it.
Say what you want it's the context that matters. My white friend can be like "What up my nigga" and I personally don't have a problem. Meanwhile an old Black man could be like "You little disgusting niggers make me sick". Context matters.
I think stand-up comic Anthony Griffith's use of the n-word here was very powerful and effective:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdBJ1X33rXM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdBJ1X33rXM
Mammoth Jones
Member
What Black people use the pronunciation of "Nigger" in the same context that "Nigga" is typically used between us? Who? Show me this mythical person? I'd like to meet him. Cause in 34 years I haven't met ONE who pronounced it like that and I've heard it from my peoples all across the continent.
It's such a near universal pronunciation that the very definition has been associated w/ that specific pronunciation. Now it may have STARTED as a difference in pronunciation back on the plantation. But in a modern context there's a difference.
This. Who besides an old Richard Pryor album says "Nigger" in a non-hostile context?
"Nobody ordered me to 'stay in your lane' when I fought so vocally on CNN for Trayvon Martin's right to justice.?"
https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/531981023014187008
Fuck him.
https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/531981023014187008
Fuck him.
Different words, it still refers to African-Americans in a derogatory context, and promotes cultural denigration and subconscious discrimination.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
That's because you were standing up for the oppressed instead of telling them what to do, buddy.
That was incredibly difficult to watch, but thank you for posting it.
Gotdatmoney
Member
People don't really care. They wanna say either or. I mean, do you hear young white people rolling the R in nigger? I don't, I hear them say it, nigga. I grasp that there is suppose to be a difference but the argument is that anyone should be able to say it or no one should be able to say it unless I'm getting that wrong.
To be honest, the word "nigga" sounds kinda fun and affectionate , years of tv have taught us that "He's my nigga", "don't messwith my niggas" etc.. I think there might be some reappropiation going on about it. The other one.. not at all.
And if someone calls you a "nigga" or whatever word despectively you have the whole right to falconpunch him in the face. Don't herstiate on it because "It might have been without a bad intent", you can see that coming miles away.
And if someone calls you a "nigga" or whatever word despectively you have the whole right to falconpunch him in the face. Don't herstiate on it because "It might have been without a bad intent", you can see that coming miles away.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
I get it what you're saying and I used to be on that side too, but at the end of the day we created an arbitrary difference in definition just because as BobbyRoberts pointed out, we usually don't pronounce -er on a lot of words --- motherf**ker becomes mothaf**ka.
White people generally pronounce things differently than blacks do. If I'm not being clear I mean white people generally over annunciate whereas black people often change annunciation. So we based our rule off pronunciation not really anything else. No one in the black community sat down and said "Hey let's figure out how to take back this hateful word! Ok well let's add an "a" at the end instead of an "er"! Solved!!!"
Again er is the dirty word (ONLY) because that's how white people pronounce the word -- racist or not. Nigga is only appropriate because generally that's how black people pronounce the (hateful) word and if it's coming from a black person it doesn't have that same sting. Two overweight people calling each other a fat slob is a meaningless insult because they are in the same boat.
It's still really the same word. The only difference is who is using it and that's literally the only reason "er" vs "a" is a thing.
TheHollowNight
Member
This had me in tears, jesus....
This is way too much for this thread. Wow... I still have chills.
The funny thing is, I hear a lot of "er" when people are trying to say "nigga" a lot. I'm constantly having to correct people when the subject comes up.
One is the result of black people claiming a word and transforming it into something positive and familial.
The other is a direct historical reference and still dripping in negativity associated with the history of Black Americans in this country.
I don't disagree that this is how the two words originated. But that's language for you. Words evolve, change, and are born naturally. Not because a committee got together and decided "NOW this is what this word means." That's not really how language has ever worked. At least not socially.
It's safe to say at this point that "Nigga" and "Nigger" are two different words with completely different contexts, regardless of how that difference came about.
Chie Satonaka
Member
hipbabboom
Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
Are people deliberately being dense?
Happens all the time.
I don't think we're disagreeing?
My post was in response to people completely discrediting Piers Morgan's argument. He's wrong to imply that the current usage of the n-word should be solely blamed on black people, but he's correct in that there's no way white people are going to stop using the word if black people continue to use it. It's silly to expect or demand it.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Holy shit....
With my girl 3 months from being born this is absolutely my nightmare. Fuck.
Oh, then I stand corrected, lol. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yeah they do.
What we're talking about here is the idea that pronouncing the word correctly is considered "talking like a white person." That's why the word tends to take on a harsher tone when it's pronounced correctly, because it sounds like it did coming out of the white people in power who made sure to keep the black populace of America as uneducated as they possibly could.
The focus on the different spelling/pronunciation only really came about once hip hop albums started purposefully misspelling words (including that one) in song titles and album names as a way to make the titles stand out/be stylized. It didn't make the words new words because they were being purposefully misspelled, though.
A LOT of white kids who wanted to be down and appropriate that culture saw the fact it was spelled differently, heard the fact it was pronounced differently, as their "in" towards using that word without getting their shit wrecked for it. From there this false distinction has been further confused and even adopted by some people as legitimate reasoning, not too different from the people who believe fag has to do with burning gay people, or that sagging your pants is an invitation to get topped.
MammothMan said:
I know. That's pretty much what I'm getting at here. Black people are expected to have their own, race-specific dialect regardless of what region they live in, and that expectation has been grown and fostered over a century now. That expectation is very tightly intertwined with this country's lowered regard for minorities in general. It's in and of itself an example of internalized, ingrained racism. "Black people talk like this, white people talk like this," ba-dum tisshhh.
White people would like for "nigga" to mean something different than "Nigger" because then it means it's easier for them to appropriate that culture so they can feel cool. Nobody feels cool being an outright racist, so if they can believe (and get others to believe) that the word doesn't mean the same thing simply because it has a different pronunciation, then they get to take part in the reclamation of the term without any of the discomfort that can and SHOULD go along with a white person using it.
To clarify, because I don't know if I've done this yet and I don't want any misunderstanding lingering: I'm talking about white people and their bullshit means to attempt using the word still, because, as with almost every time a discussion of this nature pops up, the only reason the conversation is happening is because white people want permission to use the word, and are angry that they're being denied the guilt-free enjoyment of having those two syllables at the ready on the back of their tongue. I'm not talking about black people referring to other black people with that term while using "white" pronunciation of it. I'm talking about white people wondering why they should have to catch shit for using the "black" pronunciation of it now that black people have done all this work to make the word alluring to culture vampires looking for something to sink their pearly fangs into.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
I don't disagree, but knowing that the initial difference between nigger and nigga was most likely just black vs. white pronunciation makes me uncomfortable using it.
Blackstarhat
Member
My daughter just turned 2 and this legit fucking shook me. Holy shit.
Holy shit, thanks for posting this. Very powerful video
Gotdatmoney
Member
Difference of experience. I don't hear it pronounced with an "er". Granted, in my everyday life the word really does not come up in conversation.
That's what nigga is suppose to be but plenty of black people also do not give a shit about the distinction and find it offense regardless and fairly so. I feel like whenever the discussion of er vs a comes up, it ignores the fact that the vast majority of people aren't fighting for an "er" or an "a". They want the same usage of the either word or they don't. I personally fall on the side of not caring about a letter change. If a black person says it to me the context is going to matter more than the last syllable,
Nigger is associated as pure negative but if I put on Bobby Shmurda Hot Nigga for my parents right now, they aren't going to give a shit that there is an "a" in it. My white neighbours aren't either. My friends aren't either. The vast majority of people don't care about the syllable, they care about the context of who can say it and why which doesn't change. If you're white, you don't get to say nigger OR nigga.
Edit: I feel like I typed that word out way too much.
Now we need is someone from the #newblack to support this statements, Don Lemon got a taste of reality so he is out of commission for a while, so its up to Morgan Freeman or rapist Bill Cosby to do the deed.
Some people dont like being educated on what is a slur on what isnt.
Some people dont like being educated on what is a slur on what isnt.
pokeystaples
Banned
This is bullshit. I've heard it under the guise of bonding. The us against them talk during courtroom downtime. It's not pretty. I opt not to say it in any form.
I understand this. My point is that the history behind how this one word evolved into two words is irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact that "nigga" and "nigger" are considered two different by a lot of people. The evolution of language is not really beholden to history.
Anecdotal I know, but I could go up to pretty much any black person on the street here in Philly and be like, "So, nigga and nigger. Two different words, right?" And most would say yes. From my experience, there's really not that much confusion about this within the community, especially among the <35 crowd.
The confusion only ever really happens when you have to have the "Why can't I say it?" conversation with white people.
And sure, white people don't intrinsically know this, but they should take the time to understand, especially if they're going to pull a Piers Morgan and pretend like they're well versed enough on the subject and terminology to tell black people, collectively, how we should communicate with each other.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Damn.
Tyrone Biggums
Banned
We would still be separate but equal with no civil rights if we went around decking every white person in the face who calls us 'nigger'
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I don't think we're disagreeing as much as it seems like we are. But I do disagree that the history is irrelevant. It's absolutely relevant so far as it pertains to my explanation in the most recent post I did up top.
Nigga and Nigger aren't two different words. What we're really getting at is that "Nigga" = "black person says it" and "Nigger" = "white person says it" It's the same word, what we're really doing though is reinforcing the idea that white people shouldn't be fucking saying it, period.
The confusion only really comes about though due to the fact white people are using the difference in spelling/pronunciation as a means to get permission to use the word, or to pout when society doesn't look kindly on their using the as part of their mix & match culturally appropriated identity.
White people shouldn't be worried about why they can't use the word, nor should they be trying to find ways to fit the words in their mouth, nor should they be trying to tell black people how to use the word when they say it considering the word can be, and still is, easily weaponized. In fact, most of this confusion comes down to automatically recognizing when the word's been most effectively weaponized - you pronounce it like someone's racist grandfather did, with perfect diction.
But that doesn't change the fact it's the same word. Because it is.
<+)O Robido O(+>
Member
Please, I drop the f-bomb all the time, usually directed at my straight male friends. Their look of shock is precious. I usually don't drop nigga in front of white people. Only on the rare occasion where I forget myself and slip up at work. lol.
Imperial Bishop
Banned
It's Morgan, but ad hominem aside he's saying precisely what black professors of mine said in school. They argued against the idea that the word was subverted and stripped of it's power when used in African American communities. That, in fact, it is just as often used to denigrate and assert authority and such was closer to a victim of child abuse adopting his abusers habits later in life. Shit stuck with me, though I'm white so who cares, but I often hear blacks use the word in ways that make me cringe, not from guilt or shame either.
There's been kind of a re-re-appropriation by young gay people to use gay as a joking pejorative. The "gay baby jail" tumblr meme is a good example.
It's really possible that white people will never stop saying the n-word, but it will instead lose all its serious racist value.
But don't you think that different context is enough to make the words themselves different? I think that's our fundamental disagreement here.
I mean, there's a reason why black people don't say "nigger" and it's not because we're too lazy to pronounce the "er". And there's a reason why "my nig" isn't seen as a separate word, because it shares the exact same context as "nigga" but not "nigger."
I mean, even I as a black person could go to a group of black people and say "what's up niggers!" and while the reaction wouldn't be close to the same as if I were a white person saying that, I would still definitely get some side-eyes.
EDIT: And in case it wasn't clear, I definitely do agree that white people really shouldn't be trying to say or rationalize the use of either word.
To Far Away Times
Member
Wow... pretty powerful stuff. Makes you appreciate all that you have. Thank you for sharing.
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