Batman: Arkham Knight Aiming for identical Res/Framerate Across Xbox One and PS4
- Thread starter Poetic.Injustice
- Start date
Actually in this analogy I think "Only way this happens is if the faster car is installed with a speed limiter to provide a handicap to the other." is more apt in this particular analogy.
Pathfinder
Member
Stuggernaut
Grandma's Chippy
So hopefully I am not missing something here...
But can someone explain to me the benefits for the studio doing this? Serious question.
Does it make development easier? Does it save money somewhere? Cause if so, I can relate.
The only thing I can think of is that they do not want to put money into two versions to to have one dominate? But even that makes no sense to me.
There are literally millions of people on each platform, if the game is fun, the differences, however great or slight they may be, will not matter in the end. Either way people bought your game.
Plus if you make a kick ass game and near max out settings on a console, isn't that a good thing?
But can someone explain to me the benefits for the studio doing this? Serious question.
Does it make development easier? Does it save money somewhere? Cause if so, I can relate.
The only thing I can think of is that they do not want to put money into two versions to to have one dominate? But even that makes no sense to me.
There are literally millions of people on each platform, if the game is fun, the differences, however great or slight they may be, will not matter in the end. Either way people bought your game.
Plus if you make a kick ass game and near max out settings on a console, isn't that a good thing?
boredandlazy
Member
There's only really one. They don't piss off Microsoft and their die hard supporters.
The original intent of my post wasn't to demean those who disagree. I was explaining why I'm not boycotting a game that strives for parity (well, I had no intent on buying any of these games anyways since AC and Batman don't seem like games I would personally enjoy and I'm still not going to buy them, but hypothetically if a game I did care about did this). I was expecting to get responses from people explaining why they're boycotting so I could better understand their perspective. Do you guys just really care about 1080p/60FPS and bought a PS4 with that being one of the main things you were expecting? If you did then that's totally fair, but personally neither of those things are really things I care a lot about and as someone who frequently plays games on older hardware and plays handhelds more than any modern consoles it's just difficult for me to understand why this is such a big deal.
And I feel like you misinterpreted my argument about the PC. I know what the parity clause is, I know that they're gimping the PS4 versions of games for parity to Xbox One, I know that's BS, I'd prefer if they didn't. But if you care so much, why did you buy the PS4 for versions of multiplatform games in the first place? You can build a PC with better specs than the PS4. And I'm not saying this in a "PC MASTER RACE YOU CONSOLE PLEBS ARE COWARDS," way, I'm just saying this because it seems like if you're the kind of person who cares enough about graphical fidelity to boycott a game that doesn't take full advantage of your console then you also seem like the kind of person who wouldn't even be bothering with consoles for multiplatform games in the first place. Do you have a bad experience with PC gaming? Do you care a lot about performance but not want the hassle of building a PC? Do you just want to be able you play with your friends on PS4? If so these are all valid reasons, but I'm just curious since it seems a little strange to me :x.
I'm sorry if any of this was insulting or something, because that's not my intent here, I'm not trying to argue with people who are boycotting this game (especially because I'm on their side in a way).
grap3fruitman
Banned
They have six months to change their minds is how I'm looking at it.
Keeping the game's assets consistent across platforms would make them easier to manage, I would think.
Pathfinder
Member
I think he was looking for a serious answer.
The most likely reason, excluding console war nonsense, is multiplatform developers probably have a baseline that they aim for. This baseline would be on par with what the lesser console can do, and what the more powerful console has no problem doing.
It probably keeps things simple and on track.
boredandlazy
Member
Who's not being serious?
Rocksteady(I think) are perfectly competent developers. I'm not saying they should need to create new assets for the PS4 version, but there's surely things they can do to make use of the extra power available.
I'm pretty sure the PC version will include improved lighting and visual effects(at the very least). Why is it suddenly OK for the PS4 to miss out on some of those just because the XBOne can't handle it?
There's only one reason I can think of.
PS4 owners don't give a damn about how the game will look on X1 and whether it will struggle to run the game. They just don't want the game held back because of it.
If PS4 can run the game at 1080p then it should be allowed to do so. Why is it okay to hold the PS4 version back just because another console can't handle the same settings?
It's really as simple as this and there is nothing more to understand.
If PS4 can run the game at 1080p then it should be allowed to do so. Why is it okay to hold the PS4 version back just because another console can't handle the same settings?
It's really as simple as this and there is nothing more to understand.
Pathfinder
Member
Do you know for a fact that PS4 will miss out on some extra features, or are we jumping to conclusions now?
He answered a question posed by a poster with possible reasons why a developer would do this.
You love hypotheticals, surely you understand this.
Pathfinder
Member
This whole thread is hypothetical as far as I'm concerned. The game is still in development. Nothing is factual, nothing is concrete, people are coming up with wild theories left and right, cancelling pre-orders, boycotting, all based upon a single quote.
I see nothing wrong with asking questions and challenging people's assumptions.
Glorified G
Member
This is most likely the most rationale explanation. Rocksteady isn't going to bring the best out of each individual platforms. That's what 1st party devs are for. They have specific goals that they want both platforms to reach. This is due to budget, manpower, resources, etc. PS4 will get their quicker due to the ease of the architecture and probably spend more time on the X1 version. This is not gimping one version for another. They want both to look great and have a specific target (Maybe 1080p steady 30FPS) and budget accordingly to do so.
Other devs most likely do this too, especially the sports titles. They just didn't put their foot in their mouth before release.
Other devs most likely do this too, especially the sports titles. They just didn't put their foot in their mouth before release.
Again those are exceptions. You can't use the 1% exception to argue your case. For 99% of games out there a more powerful hardware means better performance. I'm not even sure why you are trying to argue otherwise. It's a simple fact. It's not even about optimization. Engines usually scale according to hardware power even poorly done engine will perform better with better hardware. You can't seriously be using dev purposely gimping PC ports as an example. Dark Soul with the idiotic resolution lock. That doesn't help your argument.
travisbickle
Member
"aiming to deliver parity" is fine, go back to 6 months before launch and developers were aiming for parity and see how that worked out at launch.
It's when that changes to "it's the same because we don't want to incite discussion" or whatever bullshit it was from Ubisoft.
It's when that changes to "it's the same because we don't want to incite discussion" or whatever bullshit it was from Ubisoft.
boredandlazy
Member
As benny said this is all hypothetical.
However, what is your definition for 'Graphical Parity'? Is it just resolution and framerate? Or does it include all the other bells and whistles?
Cave Johnson
Member
But that wasn't the issue last generation. Most of the multiplats on the 360 were significantly better from resolution/framerate/graphical details with barely any consideration on the PS3 despite having a smaller power gap than this generation (see Skyrim). There was no "parity" as you claim it to be, you are rewriting history to fit into your narrative.
Now the the consoles are operating on similar hardware, the CELL excuse can no longer fall under the theoretical debate, the PS4 is objectively better than the X1 and all we're asking is the same kind of treatment that was perused by developers for the 360 from the last generation.
It's very difficult to access a person's intentions on the web especially are a heated discussion. We always have to assume the input is always at the contending side of the argument. Allow me to elaborate what the real focus on this side of the debate:
Again, the PC is irrelevant to this discussion; 1080p/60fps is irrelevant to this discussion. These aren't debating points in this topic.
This is about an intended parity clause and how to deal with the reaction. People who bought the PS4 do so because they want the "360" of this generation. It's not just about whether or not the game has a higher graphics or whatnot. We don't want a repeat of Skyrim and other blunderous ports we have to deal with last generation. It's why many chose the PS4. The fact it has better hardware makes it the least likely to suffer bad ports.
So when companies try to instill this mentality that both consoles are "equal" in terms of power it is both insulting to our intelligence and imposing a forced consumer's remorse just fucking because.
Why is this so hard to understand?
The reason why we are up in arms about this is because developers aren't showing the same respect to the PS4 consumers they were given to the 360 last generation. Whenever developers like Ubisoft tries to enforce "parity" it not only tells how much they side on one particular system, they openly berate a user-base for choosing a system they're not willing to attune to. It only highlights where their loyalties like, as if they wanted to whittle down the potential of the PS4 so the X1 could catch up. They have no fucking business participating in the politics between companies especially if one-side hasn't offered any benefits to them. We want parity issue to end, plain and simple.
If people bought the X1, then that's their problem, they've accessed the pros and cons of both systems and decided that their system was of better value. But now it's appropriate to pull down the other system's advantage because their console is incapable to meet the hardware requirements?
I don't know which is more astounding: The fact that these companies are one-sided or the people openly supporting such notion. It doesn't support competition, it's hurting and deliberately shorthanding potential so that consumers will be forced to select a single console rather than assess the qualities of both. The discussion isn't just about the game itself but also WHAT consoles consumers will buy. We're talking about sabotaging competition to compromise consumer's value. Nothing else. No PC, no 1080P/60fps.
If true, then they can fuck right off, & I'll just buy a used copy.
Did they learn nothing from Ubisoft with the AC: Unity parity scandal?
Amen to this post. I'm definitely copying & pasting so that most people will understand where we're coming from.
Did they learn nothing from Ubisoft with the AC: Unity parity scandal?
Amen to this post. I'm definitely copying & pasting so that most people will understand where we're coming from.
I admit I didnt read this whole thread...its late where I am, only saw the first few on page 1.. But the first post and this one.....priceless.
Incredible to see a first post and a last post (for me) be so amazing.
Joking, right? If not, kindly read the quote above....thanks.
Pathfinder
Member
When a dev comes out publically and says they're aiming for parity, I assume they mean resolution. But that's only a piece of the pie.
Frame rate will no doubt be better on PS4. Just about every multiplatform game we've seen so far (with one or two exceptions) has performed better on PS4 at the same resolution. That's to be expected and something I don't think anyone should concern themselves with.
Then there's the bells and whistles. Particle effects, depth of field, anti-aliasing, etc. I expect those to be more pronounced on PS4 because it's a more powerful console.
I feel that when people hear the word "parity", they automatically start thinking the worst possible conclusion in their head: that the dev got lazy and the PS4 and Xbox One versions will be exactly alike. And that brings up feelings of resentment because they feel the PS4 version should be better than the XO version because it's the more powerful console.
But if history has taught us anything in the past year, it WILL be. Even if both games end up being 1080p native, it's more than a safe bet that the PS4 version will have superior frame rate and special effects.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
no amount of development time is going to make the xbo as powerful as the ps4 though. sure, they could spend more time with the xbo version as you say, but then, the controversy comes with the ps4 version not being as good as it could be because more time was spent optimizing for the xbo.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
correct usage of 'parity' would entail both versions being the same. so i cant blame folks for taking it that way, regardless of the intention.
This is simply not true. By your logic, how can the 3DS and WiiU reach 60fps and 1080p/60fps for the latter yet they have inferior hardware? Is that another "exception"?
lonedigitalwolf
Banned
Yeah... i doubt that the XBO version is gonna be 1080p at all... and if they are really aiming for crappity then they are going to bring the PS4 version down to whatever odd resolution they end up with on the XBO. And that isn't fair at all no matter how they choose to spin it.
Pathfinder
Member
"Parity" has become a buzzword hot button, almost like a parody of itself.
Some people are also WAY too quick to jump to wild conclusions when they see it, and have absolutely no evidence to support their theories. They would rather get angry, point fingers, and single out an aggressor to a problem that might not even be a problem rather than think rationally.
I wonder just how many people really did cancel their pre-orders today...
So why the fuck didn't this happen throughout the 4th to the 7th generations of consoles, then?
Heck, even when the PS2 had a huge install base, both the Gamecube & the Original Xbox have received far better versions of games graphically, save for MGS 2 for OG Xbox.
Pathfinder
Member
The developer quote said they were "aiming" for (resolution) parity. That doesn't mean they'll achieve it, just that they're aiming for it. I would aim for it too if I were a developer.
It also doesn't mean they will intentionally bring the res on the PS4 version down to match the XO version. So far Ubisoft is the only developer with the balls to do something like that.
This game will most likely end up like the majority of other multiplatform games: PS4 @ 1080p and Xbox One @ 900p. Both at ~30fps.
DOWN
Banned
Except now devs have an easy route to accessing the stronger console's power and it also has the way bigger audience. That wasn't the case last gen.
L4DANathan
Member
Not cool, Rocksteady. But the decision won't matter for my PC, hyuck, hyuck.
It will when the PC version of Arkham Knight needs 6GB+ of VRAM to run. More likely 4GB of Vram.
lonedigitalwolf
Banned
I certainly hope that's the case.
ReBurn
Gold Member
Because this is the first time the major players have had system architectures so similar. Machines had wildly different capabilities due to wildly different hardware architecture.
Last gen Sony screwed their own pooch with exotic hardware and it took a long time for developers to catch up from a parity perspective, but I believe they did the best they could.
This time around developers are trying to achieve parity because they want to reuse as much code and asset infrastructure across platforms as possible to control budgets. I doubt it is as much moneyhatting as it is trying to make sure that their games sell across platforms. Publishers want to sell as many copies as possible, so they will try to get as close as they can across platforms to make it compelling to the most gamers possible.
4GB for max settings I can understand, the prior PC footage looked phenomenal.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
I sold almost all of my retail PS4 games last week. Still need to dump the console itself.
I already used part of the money to order a new CPU. More upgrades to come. Unity parity was the last straw.
If this parity trend is because of pressure from MS, then I guess they won by pushing me away from their most direct competitor, but oh well.
AstuteClass
Banned
So sick of this BS. Honestly, where were the parity clauses last gen when the 360 had the prime cut of the multiplats?
Seriously, I swear this industry just likes to blow MS and forgive and forget any wrongdoing they commit.
Seriously, I swear this industry just likes to blow MS and forgive and forget any wrongdoing they commit.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
Fa-la-la-la-la, fuck you Warner Bros & Rocksteady.
It's just not fair to everyone that bought the PS4, though. The PS4's install base is at 13.5+ million owners worldwide, while Xbox One only has about 6+ million owners worldwide. They can easily sell many copies of games throughout PS4's install base alone.
Knowing that most of your games will sell more on PS4 than on Xbox One, knowing that PS4 is more powerful than Xbox One is, & you still chose to have fucking parity among both versions of your games? Fuck that shit.
lonedigitalwolf
Banned
Pathfinder
Member
Dude, relax. Multiplatform games were never technical showcases anyway. There's too many variables.
We have exclusives for technical showcases. You'll get your money's worth out of your machine.
ReBurn
Gold Member
I understand the frustration. But out of a potential market of 20 million consumers nobody wants to risk leaving the money of 6 million of them on the table. They also know that getting even 8-10% of those console owners to buy their multiplatform game is difficult. When you think of it that way it becomes even more important to try to make your offering as compelling as possible and alienate as few potential customers as possible.
Fairness has little to do with it. That's what first party is for. Third parties likely can't afford the gamble, unless it's something like GTA5 where Rockstar has already made their money and next gen is just gravy.
AstuteClass
Banned
See I don't get this. You're saying they can't gamble, which I agree with, so why would you maybe piss off the vastly bigger install base to not maybe piss off the much smaller one?
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
But Xbox fans told me they don't care about resolution.
lonedigitalwolf
Banned
I agree... and it sickens me.
Pathfinder
Member
Because they're not pissing off ALL of the vastly bigger install base. Only a small percentage will feel slighted by any of this.
EDIT: Let me rephrase. They will potentially piss off less people if both versions are similar, and potentially piss off more people if one version is noticeably sub-par.
ReBurn
Gold Member
How many times have we actually seen it, though? Developers have been getting as close as they can for a year,which is 1080p on PS4 and 900p on XBOne. Even with the talk of parity I doubt that's likely to change.
People in this thread are getting pissed off about parity for a AAA multiplat that has no official announcement of resolution or framerate. So they're pretty much pissed off for nothing.
Chobel
Member
And you think when they don't aim for parity then they're going to piss a lot of xbone owners? The same thing can be said about Xbone owners, only small percentage will be pissed when there's no parity.
EDIT: I saw your edit, that didn't happen with most multipats so far, why would it be worse now?
FranXico
Member
The best post in this thread. Thank you, Cave Johnson. This is absolutely a consumer issue, and it is not hard to see which people are refusing to understand this and why.