Legend of Zelda Wii U Gameplay Demo

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Sorry for interrupting any conversation going on. Just thought it would be a good idea to repost DecoyOctopus's color corrected GIFs.

What a thing of beauty that game can be. Hope they keep that simple look on the GUI. SS and TP both have heavily illustrated GUI elements (eg the ugly, low res, embellished dialog boxes).
 
It's really difficult for me to see any scenario in which Zelda U isn't a fucking masterpiece. Everything coming out this year up until Zelda comes out, with the exceptions of Metal Gear V and Star Fox, is simply filler to keep my sanity in check. I still can't believe we're getting some of these games this year. It's surreal and just awesome.
 
It's really difficult for me to see any scenario in which Zelda U isn't a fucking masterpiece. Everything coming out this year up until Zelda comes out, with the exceptions of Metal Gear V and Star Fox, is simply filler to keep my sanity in check. I still can't believe we're getting some of these games this year. It's surreal and just awesome.

Oh I have no doubts about that. I just want them pull all stops, they seem to be so close to an idealized vision of what an adventure video game should be.

What's GUI?
Oh and I loved SS too.

Graphical User Interface. And yes SS is pretty great, second only to OoT for me.
 
I'll never understand the venom directed at Skyward Sword. From the outside looking in, you'd think it belongs up there with Superman 64 or Bubsy 3D. Playing it for the first time a month ago, I was blown away. It's the best Zelda game yet.

Seriously, Fi never even talks to me. Talk about overblown criticism. Tatl interrupts me way, way more in Majora's Mask 3D than Fi ever did in Skyward Sword.

I hated Fi, but, despite its flows, I think that the pre-dungeon areas of SS should be taken as a lesson for game/level desing in many studios. seriously.
that's how the interaction between player/avatar and world should be in an interactive media as the videogames are.
 
I have NOT played SS but I've watched a bunch of Let's Plays (sorry~) and it seems like the world is designed in discrete segments that are more playground-like (almost like a platformer?) than "open" or "realistic" or whatever Zelda U is aiming to be. Is that an accurate statement? I'm not in love with the idea but I understand that some might prefer it.
 
I have NOT played SS but I've watched a bunch of Let's Plays (sorry~) and it seems like the world is designed in discrete segments that are more playground-like (almost like a platformer?) than "open" or "realistic" or whatever Zelda U is aiming to be. Is that an accurate statement? I'm not in love with the idea but I understand that some might prefer it.

Skyward Sword is designed as a continuous, focused playground, as you say. The areas leading up to dungeons were explicitly set up to be dungeon-like themselves with lots of obstacle puzzles that teach you about the place you're traversing. It had the sky as a hub-world and used Skyloft as the home base with various sidequests to complete. Zelda U is aiming for seamless, wide-open spaces without unnatural boundaries that will allow players to approach dungeons/puzzles/events from multiple directions (something which we have yet to see in action).
 
I have NOT played SS but I've watched a bunch of Let's Plays (sorry~) and it seems like the world is designed in discrete segments that are more playground-like (almost like a platformer?) than "open" or "realistic" or whatever Zelda U is aiming to be. Is that an accurate statement? I'm not in love with the idea but I understand that some might prefer it.

the thing about SS's world is indeed that even the fields and areas you enter are tightly designed like a dungeon. You have to find your way through it much like in a Zelda dungeon, with puzzles and maze-like designs which are challenging and fun to play. A completely different design than an open world for sure. It's really nicely done in SS, I don't think it translates well to gameplay videos. SS was more designed around puzzle solving than the exploration aspect. There are still elements of exploration and discovery, but just in more confined areas.
 
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Sorry for interrupting any conversation going on. Just thought it would be a good idea to repost DecoyOctopus's color corrected GIFs.

Love the fluid way the grass reacts to the horse going through it. The look of the game in these GIFs remind me a bit of Flower (the first level especially, to be more specific).
 
Well that sort of comes with exploring a vast open world, doesn't it? I don't want to find four dungeons that I can't even enter and look for the one dungeon that I actually am supposed to do right now. Why not let me explore every one that I can find?

I know you assume that the difficulty of the dungeons will decrease and sort of stay on the same level because every dungeon could be your first one in that scenario, but why not just have more difficult dungeons than others? Maybe there's an easy dungeon near the beginning area, but as you travel further and further, you come across many different environments and then, suddenly, you arrive at this majestic dungeon and you just know that this one is supposed to be tough. So good for you if you manage to beat it early on, or else you can just come back whenever you feel you're ready for it.

If we're looking for clues, remember that Aonuma said that Zelda Wii U was inspired by the original LOZ for NES. That game really mixed it up with dungeons. Some were hidden, some were in plain sight, some you could access even if you weren't strong enough or had the right item to beat them. Your only real hint was the dungeon number.

I like that approach, it keeps you on your toes. I think the ALBW Dark World dungeon setup was a good step in that direction by opening things up, now I want to see more unpredictability as to what dungeons you can get into, how you can get into them, and how far you can progress. Make some difficult dungeons close by and some easier dungeons far away.

I know you said that you don't want to access a dungeon if you can't beat it, but what if the game at least gives you something to do in the dungeon, even if you can't beat it yet? Another feature of the original LOZ that's sadly missing from other games is that dungeons actually contained NPCs that would give you hints about the rest of the game. So maybe in Zelda Wii U, they let you access a difficult dungeon that you can't beat, but at least you'll get some hints about the world or get some collectables only found in that dungeon to trade back in town.

Some food for thought.
 
But where I feel they can and possibly will fuck up the most is game progressing. I'm afraid that they will keep us out of parts of the overworld until a later part of the game, in order to assure that we know where to go...

Well, that might just be what they end up doing; they seem pretty hesitant to even label this game as traditionally "open world" and they haven't really given us an idea of how the player will progress.

If they do end up doing what you've suggested...that would be pretty awesome imo.
I'm really not in the mood for incredibly lackluster/mediocre (ALBW and Wind Waker-esque) dungeon design in my big HD Zelda because a vocal minority of disillusioned enthusiast fans really, really want Zelda to be "Skyrim: Hyrule Addition".
3 or 4 linear (in terms of when you can access them) level designs that give the player 3 or 4 interesting new items while setting up the narrative elements and endowing players with the feelings of mystery, challenge, and discovery within the dungeons/temples/giant fish stomachs/sanctuaries/etc. (something that Ravio's item shop and the free-roaming initiative completely sapped away from ALBW's "dungeons for dummies" tier level design imo) wouldn't be a bad thing at all.
At that point I'll at least know that EAD3 is gonna design some pretty kick ass, complex, and inventive OoT/Stone Tower Temple/TP/SS-tier dungeons or dungeon-like areas once the game goes full-sand box.

As of right now I remain unconvinced that a fully open world sandbox design works with Zelda's traditional trademark Link + item > environment interplay thanks to ALBW and its goofy item shop.

I love how you suggest that "glorified sightseeing simulator" elements are contrary to Zelda's core mechanics, when Zelda's original design philosophy was literally to make a "miniature garden that players can put inside their drawer" (Miyamoto)
.

Honesty Who cares?
What Miyamoto and his small 3rd gen team set out to do at the wonky (I'd say Zelda 1 is more of the series' developing "seed" rather than it's "roots") beginning of the series life doesn't' really interest me and has no real relevance to what the series has become post-ALTTP/pre-ALBW; EAD has been prioritizing Zelda's more unique action-adventure mechanics and dynamics (the complex and inventive interplay between Link, his items, and the environment) while building a clearer narrative focus for almost 17 years at this point.
I mean, you and people like you might have more of a point if the franchise had stayed a GTA-esque action-sandbox game for 20 or so years and then suddenly became SS...but that's not really the case.
It's kind of clear that they got over the whole "lets make something that's radically different from Mario!" initiative once they got around to making AoL. SS was just the inevitable "end point" of where they were going once they started building more interesting platformer-esque level designs filled with all kinds of puzzles, and obstacles/traps in ALTTP.
:P

Edit:
the thing about SS's world is indeed that even the fields and areas you enter are tightly designed like a dungeon. You have to find your way through it much like in a Zelda dungeon, with puzzles and maze-like designs which are challenging and fun to play. A completely different design than an open world for sure. It's really nicely done in SS, I don't think it translates well to gameplay videos. SS was more designed around puzzle solving than the exploration aspect. There are still elements of exploration and discovery, but just in more confined areas.

(I agree with the sentiment of your post but...)
Hmmm...
:/
I'm pretty sure I was exploring/feeling my around the environment in SS when I was jumping over lava pits, climbing out of underground caverns, uncovering lost walk ways, time traveling, and discovering ancient robot mining facilities...why does exploration as a dynamic always have to be defined as running around a big circular "directionless" area in gaming enthusiast culture?
It's such a limiting and somewhat dismissive thing to do with the term imo.
 
Skyward Sword is one open world hub (the sky), and several semi-open hubs (the ground) that are structured and operate more like dungeons than typical open worlds. This was, I figure, a response to fans clamouring for more interactivity in the open world and Nintendo's talk of adding dungeon like elements to it. I mean, structurally they're still not dungeons. The ground still works very similarly to Hyrule Field and all other tangent locations from previous Zelda games, so it kinda bugs me when people say Skyward Sword didn't have a hub/open world/Hyrule Field. They look different, are structured a bit differently, and at times a bit tighter in play space, but fundamentally they still offer that free, at-your-own-pace play and exploration. And the sky is structurally very similar to Wind Waker's ocean, just much smaller. And I'm really happy Nintendo experimented with these ideas and combined the two, because in my opinion a majority of Skyward Sword plays very well as a Zelda game.

That being said, and I've said it before, I also think Skyward Sword was a good vision restricted by the wrong hardware. Two halves, a massive open sky, vertical play in discovering new floating islands and what not, ground areas/dungeons to explore, etc. All of this would have benefited from stronger hardware that could blur the lines in loading and scale/density of each area.

When Nintendo talks about Skyward Sword being the "biggest Zelda" they're not lying. It's got more stuff in it, scale and content, than any other.

EDIT: As it stands my big worry with Zelda U is how they'll flesh out the open world with interesting content. Pushing for a strict deadline on a mediocre selling system does not fill me with hope, but we'll see.
 
From how I look at it, Skyward Sword and A Link Between Worlds were necessary experiments to rejig the Zelda experience, with both having good and bad parts to them. This looks like it might be the product of these two big rejig experiments.

That said, if dowsing ever comes back I'm going to kick up a fuss.
 
One thing I don't like is Epona being a taxi. I really hope you can control her manually.

...
Of course you can control epona. You clearly see it in the video.
The only new thing that's happening is that the horse will keep moving once you set it in motion and will auto avoid trees. Other than, it's the same epona as always.
 
So I was browsing random Ocarina of Time screenshots dated from 97, a year before its release, and WOW. The difference between the pre-release and the actual game is huge.

I have nothing to worry about.
 
Skyward Sword is one open world hub (the sky), and several semi-open hubs (the ground) that are structured and operate more like dungeons than typical open worlds. This was, I figure, a response to fans clamouring for more interactivity in the open world and Nintendo's talk of adding dungeon like elements to it. I mean, structurally they're still not dungeons. The ground still works very similarly to Hyrule Field and all other tangent locations from previous Zelda games, so it kinda bugs me when people say Skyward Sword didn't have a hub/open world/Hyrule Field. They look different, are structured a bit differently, and at times a bit tighter in play space, but fundamentally they still offer that free, at-your-own-pace play and exploration. And the sky is structurally very similar to Wind Waker's ocean, just much smaller. And I'm really happy Nintendo experimented with these ideas and combined the two, because in my opinion a majority of Skyward Sword plays very well as a Zelda game.

That being said, and I've said it before, I also think Skyward Sword was a good vision restricted by the wrong hardware. Two halves, a massive open sky, vertical play in discovering new floating islands and what not, ground areas/dungeons to explore, etc. All of this would have benefited from stronger hardware that could blur the lines in loading and scale/density of each area.

When Nintendo talks about Skyward Sword being the "biggest Zelda" they're not lying. It's got more stuff in it, scale and content, than any other.

EDIT: As it stands my big worry with Zelda U is how they'll flesh out the open world with interesting content. Pushing for a strict deadline on a mediocre selling system does not fill me with hope, but we'll see.

I absolutely agree. SS felt held back. There's a ton of great stuff, but it just didn't come together like I think it could have.

But it's completely 100% optional to use. I don't see the big deal. If you don't like it, don't use it.
It's actually a great tool for less experienced players.

I just don't like what you are doing when you are supposed to be using it. Collecting a number of things in an area to move on is pretty dull. If was just a tool to find a wide number of 'things', then that would have been neat. It ends up being like that, but only towards the end of the game.
 
So I was browsing random Ocarina of Time screenshots dated from 97, a year before its release, and WOW. The difference between the pre-release and the actual game is huge.

I have nothing to worry about.

The Twilight Princess trailers always throw me for a loop. People complain about TP being "empty," but those trailers are what empty actually looks like.

ZeldaU actually looks a lot more complete than Zelda often does at a first unveiling.
 
The point of doing dungeons in any order and still not being able to complete them makes sense. The feeling of coming back to defeat a big ass enemy that you couldnt before to get to the next room will be a joyous one.
 
The areas in SS felt more like "levels" and less like a world than any other Zelda. Dungeonifying the outside world was not a good choice. Zelda works best when the dungeons and open world are well contrasted.

Delving into a dungeon should feel like entering a world unto itself with it's own rules and pacing. When the entire world feels that way, you lose out on a lot of the satisfaction.

It's one of the secrets to Dark Souls' success. The contrast between light and dark. It's become a cliché to compare the two franchises, but FROM really nails this.
 
I just don't like what you are doing when you are supposed to be using it. Collecting a number of things in an area to move on is pretty dull. If was just a tool to find a wide number of 'things', then that would have been neat. It ends up being like that, but only towards the end of the game.

I honestly don't see the issue. You don't have to use it at all, so who cares what it ends up being used for.

I've heard so many people complaining about dousing that I thought I was going to be forced to use it. Meaning, that even if I knew where to find something, that I would still needed to use dosing to "find" it.

But after playing the game I learned that it wasn't like that at all (among a ton of other SS complaints), it was completely optional and you can pretty much forget dousing exists while playing.
 
you arrive at this majestic dungeon and you just know that this one is supposed to be tough. So good for you if you manage to beat it early on, or else you can just come back whenever you feel you're ready for it.

Unless you go out of your way to make the easy dungeons dull looking, in which case they become a shore to do rather then something you want to do, how can you make it so "you just know" which ones are the hard ones? Even LoZ and post Darkness Temple ALttP numbered the dungeons to make sure you knew the difficulty of them.

Also if you open multiple possible dungeons make doing them in any order trivially easy and put them at different difficulty you run the risk of giving a new player conflicting messages. "You can go anywhere and do all these dungeons! What? You chose that one? Ohhhhh, bad choice, you die." Overwhelming a player with difficulty too great for them is basically a punishment for doing what you said they could do.

ALttP probably had the best system, a handful of dungeons in linear order to make sure a new player is being taught the game correctly and then they open it up, but in way that only more experienced or inquisitive players are likely to figure out, so newer players still have a firm difficulty curve.
 
Has anyone else been bothered by the fact that mundane items like the bow, whip, boomerang, bombs, and slingshot actually have to be obtained in a dungeon before being accessible for use? Items found in dungeons should be mystical and out of the ordinary like the dominion rod, flying beetle, or hookshot.
 
Has anyone else been bothered by the fact that mundane items like the bow, whip, boomerang, bombs, and slingshot actually have to be obtained in a dungeon before being accessible for use? Items found in dungeons should be mystical and out of the ordinary like the dominion rod, flying beetle, or hookshot.

I'd like if one game had you get all the "normal-use" tools you'd expect for the time from NPC quests or something, and the dungeons had all the wacky relics, like the Spinner, Sand Rod, etc. It might feel more cohesive, and it'd certainly get us more of the creative items.

Also solves the "no dungeon order" problem without relying on too few items each dungeon.
 
Skyward Sword is one open world hub (the sky), and several semi-open hubs (the ground) that are structured and operate more like dungeons than typical open worlds. This was, I figure, a response to fans clamouring for more interactivity in the open world and Nintendo's talk of adding dungeon like elements to it. I mean, structurally they're still not dungeons. The ground still works very similarly to Hyrule Field and all other tangent locations from previous Zelda games, so it kinda bugs me when people say Skyward Sword didn't have a hub/open world/Hyrule Field. They look different, are structured a bit differently, and at times a bit tighter in play space, but fundamentally they still offer that free, at-your-own-pace play and exploration. And the sky is structurally very similar to Wind Waker's ocean, just much smaller. And I'm really happy Nintendo experimented with these ideas and combined the two, because in my opinion a majority of Skyward Sword plays very well as a Zelda game.

That being said, and I've said it before, I also think Skyward Sword was a good vision restricted by the wrong hardware. Two halves, a massive open sky, vertical play in discovering new floating islands and what not, ground areas/dungeons to explore, etc. All of this would have benefited from stronger hardware that could blur the lines in loading and scale/density of each area.

When Nintendo talks about Skyward Sword being the "biggest Zelda" they're not lying. It's got more stuff in it, scale and content, than any other.

I'd definitely agree with this; I think it's a fantastic experience but it is held back by both it's hardware, and a lack of foresight in some areas.
Tbqh, it probably would've been a really good idea for EAD3 to have reigned their ambitions in for the Skyward Sword project; they really didn't need two distinct overworlds to tell the story that they were telling, create the kind of gameplay they created, or instill the kind of feelings in the player that they wanted to instill...
In a way they were realistically biting off way more than they could chew.

Honestly, I feel that Skyloft (as it is now with places like the lumpy pumpkin attached to it) could have have just been on a really high ("non-interactive") lush Hyrulean mountain side or something (just below the forest, I guess) and the birds could have been flightless yoshi-esque mounts that could have been used in the "dungeon-like" non-dungeon level design and almost nothing would be that different barring the latter idea.

At the end of the day I think they should have forgone the idea that they needed a huge circular or square area to run around/sail/fly in because it's Zelda and it's tradition; I personally feel as though EAD should have have went full steam ahead taken their foot out of the past in that area.
:P
 
it was completely optional and you can pretty much forget dousing exists while playing.

is that why fi kept popping out to tell you she's added new dowsing targets and didn't let you forget about it

also, sandship?

it isn't optional, stop with that banal and incorrect justification please
 
I'd like if one game had you get all the "normal-use" tools you'd expect for the time from NPC quests or something, and the dungeons had all the wacky relics, like the Spinner, Sand Rod, etc. It might feel more cohesive, and it'd certainly get us more of the creative items.

Also solves the "no dungeon order" problem without relying on too few items each dungeon.

This is probably the ideal solution for me as well. I just think it's ridiculous that there are enemies running around shooting arrows at you, yet a bow is only obtainable as a dungeon item.
 
is that why fi kept popping out to tell you she's added new dowsing targets and didn't let you forget about it

Well, you have to be alerted a new option has been added. But you don't have to use it.


also, sandship?

That's ONE place in the entire game where you have to use it. ONE PLACE. That barely counts as an annoyance.

You're just looking for any excuse to piss on Skyward Sword.
 
Yeah I know, but I meant in 3D and HD form.

I would also love to see Snowpeak return.

In that case yes, it would be great. Zelda needs some new environments in general. I'd love to see a tropical rainforest in some distant corner, or fertile volcanic terrain instead of Death Mountain always being a barren mass of rock. Or something like the Grand Canyon.

Edit: Also, MC's Castor Wilds was awesome because it was an uncommonly used swamp environment mixed with Aztec-style ruins. Very unusual for Zelda.
 
It's amazing and the most fun I've ever had playing a Zelda game. I have a few reservations about it but the difference is that I'm able to overlook things instead of focus on them.

Very well said. Skyward Sword is an exceptional game. It's undoubtedly tinged with lows, but its highs are utterly sublime. It also has some of the best dungeons ever seen in the franchise.

Also compress your gifs, guys, damn.
 
You're just looking for any excuse to piss on Skyward Sword.
No, I was actually just trying to debunk the stupid "dowsing is optional" thing I keep hearing from people who aren't really able to formulate proper arguments on the Internet, because it is incorrect in the literal sense. That said, even if a lot of it is technically optional, a large part of the game is designed around using it.

If you genuinely think I'm trying to piss on a game I've played 5 times through then, well, you do that.
 
Do you guys think we might see new Zelda U footage at GDC?

Very well said. Skyward Sword is an exceptional game. It's undoubtedly tinged with lows, but its highs are utterly sublime. It also has some of the best dungeons ever seen in the franchise.

Also compress your gifs, guys, damn.

The dungeons have a nice design and fresh new ideas, but they are suffering all from being too linear and small. They would be perfect as beginner dungeons in Zelda U though
 
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