Anyone else surprised by Sony's focus on Japanese partnerships? Whats next?

Honestly, in my opinion I felt like last Gen a lot of the major games that came out of Japan focused so much on appealing to the west, that they lost their identities (Especially in the beginning, I'm looking at you Square-Enix). They isolated their userbase and we saw a dip in quality in a lot of the major Japanese games that were made for consoles.

This gen feels like a complete reversal. Maybe it's because Sony is back on top or they're trying to recapture their TRUE market who knows. I feel like FFXV is going to either usher in a new era for the JRPG or will signal the death of it as we know it.
 
The level of skill required to play games from Platinum is what prevents them from having huge sales. Not the install base.

I disagree. The majority of Battlefield and COD players are pretty weak players IMO. Doesn't stop then from buying the games.

I'm a shitty DMC player but I still enjoy the games. Same with Platinum titles.
 
Honestly, in my opinion I felt like last Gen a lot of the major games that came out of Japan focused so much on appealing to the west, that they lost their identities (Especially in the beginning, I'm looking at you Square-Enix). They isolated their userbase and we saw a dip in quality in a lot of the major Japanese games that were made for consoles.

This gen feels like a complete reversal. Maybe it's because Sony is back on top or they're trying to recapture their TRUE market who knows. I feel like FFXV is going to either usher in a new era for the JRPG or will signal the death of it as we know it.

Spot on.
 
Honestly, in my opinion I felt like last Gen a lot of the major games that came out of Japan focused so much on appealing to the west, that they lost their identities (Especially in the beginning, I'm looking at you Square-Enix). They isolated their userbase and we saw a dip in quality in a lot of the major Japanese games that were made for consoles.
This cause and effect seems to be in reverse?

Conventional wisdom is that Japanese devs shifted westwards because the local market moved to mobiles, not the other way round.
 
People keep saying this, but I think its becoming less and less true especially as the "gamer" age increases.

A few million people will buy an XBox for Halo but aside from that I'm not really seeing a big exclusives battle. Maybe it's just because XB1 and PS4 don't have much yet.
 
They have to. Game development has gone through the roof and they're kinda forced to partner in order to actually release games for their console. Especially since the ps4 has sold so well. Especially since Japanese indy scene doesn't exist.
 
A few million people will buy an XBox for Halo but aside from that I'm not really seeing a big exclusives battle. Maybe it's just because XB1 and PS4 don't have much yet.

Exclusives don't sell systems. That being said, it is hard to deny that PS4 has the largest number of games available as far as consoles go since it has the majority of the AAAs, the majority of the Indies, and the majority of the Japanese developed games as compared to XB1 which lacks many Indie games and Japanese developed games and the Wii U which lacks the AAA games and Japanese developed games. PS4 can achieve that through these deals with Japanese developers, their helping of Indie developers, and having the AAA publishers on lock.
 
he hasn't really given an update on that since. not even what part of Sony would be working on it.
Here's the last posts I remember making about the Sony RPGs. (That's a lie; I didn't remember, and just searched. It took a minute.) I've bolded what parts are relevant:
Cerny isn't leading it. Plus, he's likely going to be very busy with various things. I'd be surprised if he had the time to be leading such a big project.

I think people are underestimating the potential of a JRPG too. Mind you, when I say JRPG (a term I've pretty much picked up from GAF), I don't mean teenagers, and childlike characters, with ridiculously cartoonish settings or something. If you're going to make a big investment, you're going to keep in mind the worldwide audience also. And on that note, I feel there is too much of a divide between WRPG and JRPG. You have one aesthetic which seems stuck to a very traditional medieval time, and the other which is somewhere on Venus 2.0 with rainbows and dolls. Fantasy has a huge amount of history, culture, mythology to draw from. There is a balance where you can provide something aesthetically striking, and imaginative, without going to crazy extremes.

Fantasy allows some very unique things.



No reason why we can't have both.

I think you'll find some experiments upcoming from SCE.

They have already established big hits in stuff like Gran Turismo, Uncharted, God of War, and then there are other franchises which, whilst not huge, are safe and profitable like Killzone. The Last of Us looks like something that could end up being a big franchise for SCE as it's doing really well.

You'll get your Gran Turismo, Uncharted, a different God of War, and even safe entries like Killzone which aren't mega-successful but make money.

Obviously, FPS hasn't exactly worked out the way it was supposed to, but other stuff like the entry to third person shooters (Uncharted), action (God of War), and platformers (LBP) has. Allowing expansions of teams and talent is to try and grab a slice of different pies. There is no reason why you can't venture into action/adventure territory with something like The Order, or other titles, and still try something in open world or RPG territory too. There is money to be made in these genres clearly. It's better to try when you have big franchises supporting you already than when everything begins to die down. Then the stakes become too high.

Plus, they've tried dumber experiements in the past. If anything, this is a smarter use of money with more long-term prospects.
That's from mid-2013, and most of it is still true really. Nothing significant has changed since then. The big chunk of bold is relevant, because when the doors come off the first two JRPGs, and GG's project, I'll be able to explain a general idea to you of the ones beyond that by using them as a point of reference. It's going to be an interesting series of projects for that reason, because all the planned titles won't have a distinct medieval vibe, nor will they all have the very cartoony vibe you see from titles like Tales or Star Ocean. They'll all be different to an extent.

Obviously, the "WRPG" referenced in this post is the title everyone knows about now, and has nothing to do with the two JRPGs mentioned back then. You can ignore that, and you kind of have an idea of that one already to an extent. You can probably imagine what I mean now when I say "aesthetically striking, and imaginative" and trying to keep things unique.

That kind of philosophy is being applied in different ways in different places. Of course, depending on the projects and developers involved, the blend is different. The limitations are only because of the talent involved. But there's a strong variety, which is the main point.

I don't think there is any plan about calling anything a "FF-killer". That's extremely childish, and Final Fantasy is very important to the PS4, especially in Japan. I also don't believe SCE has ever marketed something as a franchise killer (maybe Crash during the days of PS1 or something). Japan Studio has a lot of focus on it at the moment, and a lot of effort is involved in getting that studio to the level of productivity, and also success, that many other SCE studios are currently enjoying. You naturally focus on a potential strength, and as the name of the game is currently digital, and mostly big projects, it's fitting to try something which there is certainly a potential market for. At least, in the eyes of some of those who are in charge.

I see a lot of threads about RPGs from Japan posted on GAF, but pretty much all of them are targeted at certain demographics. They aim small. Part of this is because those developers don't have the money to take risks, but also because they're sticking with what they know works for them. It's an investment, and they make it work for them the way they see fit. The Tales series is an example of this. I certainly don't expect something like that to find huge success worldwide, because it feels limited, and huge success today means selling a lot more than what that series is capable of.

There isn't a need to do that with whatever is being attempted by SCEJ/A. It's going to be a game targeted at a worldwide audience, and Final Fantasy is just the best example of something that keeps a different aesthetic without delving too much in territory which is awkward or off-putting for large amounts of people. It helps that it has a built in fanbase, but when I look at something like Final Fantasy VII, or X, or XII, or even XV to an extent, there's nothing particularly off-putting about these games from a marketing standpoint. That's largely where the comparison comes from (and from a production values standpoint). It's ultimately going to be its own thing. And today, where Final Fantasy isn't releasing every year, there's certainly a greater chance of standing out and potentially earning that success.

Every studio at Sony is experimenting or creating IPs with ideas of future success. Some studios have already achieved this and found their route of success (Polyphony, Media Molecule, Santa Monica, Naughty Dog), and continue to move forward with other projects, whilst others have been moderately successful but will get opportunities to try again with different projects (Guerilla, Sucker Punch, London etc). And of course, there have been those that failed unfortunately. Japan Studio is no different. There was a known problem, which is why they had a change of management. They also need to find their foundation, build some projects that can be lasting, and also have an impact. Once The Last Guardian is out the door, what next? It can't just end with that. This is the moment to attempt things and aim for something different, which can also be successful. There is a strong workforce there, and they can certainly build big projects, they just needed focus and guidance. Not everything has to be small like Knack.

SCEJ/A in general has its head on straight at the moment, and it also helps that they're currently doing a great job of approaching various developers to get other projects off the ground to help support the PS4 in that market whilst their own projects remain farther away, and also provide more variety. Dragon Quest coming back to Playstation seemed laughable last year, but it's happened. And that's just the beginning, even for that series in particular on Playstation. There is a strong focus at the moment from that branch, and that focus, separately, is also something Japan Studio needed in particular. It doesn't mean they'll find success necessarily, or that four or five years from now, there won't be regrets. But addressing and fixing the issues is a start, and there have already been fruits of that labour.
This is what I found from late last year. The bold in this post basically tells you the rest of what you need to know. Obviously, SCE will want both these JRPGs to do well, but one in particular is all about the worldwide audience, because that's kind of how it was born. Bear in mind, no one is intending on taking five years to get a game out the door, nor is there any real expectation that the bigger of the two titles will manage to ship 6-7 million copies (that'd be great, don't get me wrong, but I'm sensible). It has good production values, and will impress, but it's not as big of a project as FFXV. FFXV has something like 400 people working on it, and will have taken about 5-6 years including pre-production when it's all said and done. It's better to take a title, set a more reasonable expectation, and then expand things beyond that depending on how successful it ends up.

Both JRPGs are scheduled to be announced this year, with one potentially falling into 2016 for its announcement. Two years was a long time ago, and we're not far from the unveilings now in comparison. Official reveals can do the rest for you.
 
Yes, no reason why Jrpg shouldn't aim for worldwide audience with its aesthetics. Much depends on the balance between 2 target audienc of both East and West.

It prbably like Puppeteer, I hope it find greater success by being a better game with its genre.
 
Both JRPGs are scheduled to be announced this year, with one potentially falling into 2016 for its announcement. Two years was a long time ago, and we're not far from the unveilings now in comparison. Official reveals can do the rest for you.

one of them is a level 5 collab isn't it
 
More from Capcom, CC2, several more from SE (all console, and not remasters), a couple things from L5, some stuff from Sega, and something from Namco Bandai (unrelated to the obvious games that are always exclusive to Sony platforms). That's some of your important "collaborations" (or unofficial assisted efforts) over the coming years. A lot of the current announcements that have taken place have been in the works for a long time, so they're not really tied to PS4s success. (It just takes a while for things to start happening, because you have to juggle available resource, timing, and other factors. It's like moving an elephant at times.) Although, that obviously will help moving forward, particularly with western efforts in terms of publisher deals, marketing, and blah blah blah. The effect of this is probably a little different from what most people imagine.

Collaborations make sense from a resource perspective, and for SCEJ/A in particular, due to the nature of those markets, and the unique challenges they face. You have to do the work, negotiate, and gain others confidence to invest with you. It's fair to say PS4 will be the platform where you'll have the opportunity to play most of the notable Japanese third party franchises, including some forgotten, some that have been away for a while, and some new ones being created. Most of the notable announcements are yet to come. These are your appetisers basically (except SFV since that's a big deal).

But really, what matters is the quality of the games from a fan perspective. It's nice to have a lot of interesting games eventually be announced, but if they don't deliver, it'd probably be more disheartening for most folks, since you came close to almost getting what you want, but ultimately didn't. (Which I imagine are good or great games rather than mediocre stuff you'll forget.)

Also, SO5 is going to be crap. It's a good for several reasons from a business point of view, but it's still going to be crap. Kind of harsh, but it's true. I saw those videos of the last one. I know what it did to people.

SCE achieving so many successful partnerships with the biggest Japanese pubs out there, all while there being no evident success of the PS4 (at the time these deals were made like you said), honestly baffles me. Maybe how it was done is too much to reveal though.

Looks like SCE has partnerships with every single Japanese publisher lol. SO4 was an atrocity but the gameplay was still solid. The series has give us great jrpgs before so I'll put faith into SO5.
 
SCE achieving so many successful partnerships with the biggest Japanese pubs out there, all while there being no evident success of the PS4 (at the time these deals were made like you said), honestly baffles me. Maybe how it was done is too much to reveal though.

Looks like SCE has partnerships with every single Japanese publisher lol. SO4 was an atrocity but the gameplay was still solid. The series has give us great jrpgs before so I'll put faith into SO5.
It's not that baffling when you really think about it. PS4 has only been on the market for about 18 months now. Pretty much all of the list in the OP is stuff that's been in the process prior to the PS4 launch. The Level-5 and CC2 titles were initially talked about back then too, that's how long it's been. That's not to say PS4's success won't have an impact moving forward, and isn't already having an impact, but thinking that's what got the ball rolling for what's been announced so far is a bit of a disservice to the efforts made early on by many individuals.

Even if PS4 has performed beyond expectations, it's not as if it wasn't expected to do well. Publishers have their projections, and strategic plans, so they're not really waiting on a years worth of sales to start putting their foot down in order to make progress. You have an idea of these things already, and take it from there.
 
Yes, no reason why Jrpg shouldn't aim for worldwide audience with its aesthetics. Much depends on the balance between 2 target audienc of both East and West.

It prbably like Puppeteer, I hope it find greater success by being a better game with its genre.

Back then maybe but these days if it doesn't have western aesthetics it's not going to get many people. 300k to a million I guess.
 
Here's the last posts I remember making about the Sony RPGs. (That's a lie; I didn't remember, and just searched. It took a minute.) I've bolded what parts are relevant:

That's from mid-2013, and most of it is still true really. Nothing significant has changed since then. The big chunk of bold is relevant, because when the doors come off the first two JRPGs, and GG's project, I'll be able to explain a general idea to you of the ones beyond that by using them as a point of reference. It's going to be an interesting series of projects for that reason, because all the planned titles won't have a distinct medieval vibe, nor will they all have the very cartoony vibe you see from titles like Tales or Star Ocean. They'll all be different to an extent.

Obviously, the "WRPG" referenced in this post is the title everyone knows about now, and has nothing to do with the two JRPGs mentioned back then. You can ignore that, and you kind of have an idea of that one already to an extent. You can probably imagine what I mean now when I say "aesthetically striking, and imaginative" and trying to keep things unique.

That kind of philosophy is being applied in different ways in different places. Of course, depending on the projects and developers involved, the blend is different. The limitations are only because of the talent involved. But there's a strong variety, which is the main point.


This is what I found from late last year. The bold in this post basically tells you the rest of what you need to know. Obviously, SCE will want both these JRPGs to do well, but one in particular is all about the worldwide audience, because that's kind of how it was born. Bear in mind, no one is intending on taking five years to get a game out the door, nor is there any real expectation that the bigger of the two titles will manage to ship 6-7 million copies (that'd be great, don't get me wrong, but I'm sensible). It has good production values, and will impress, but it's not as big of a project as FFXV. FFXV has something like 400 people working on it, and will have taken about 5-6 years including pre-production when it's all said and done. It's better to take a title, set a more reasonable expectation, and then expand things beyond that depending on how successful it ends up.

Both JRPGs are scheduled to be announced this year, with one potentially falling into 2016 for its announcement. Two years was a long time ago, and we're not far from the unveilings now in comparison. Official reveals can do the rest for you.

Thanks for the awesome update Verendus! Any chance the two Japanese rpgs are both collaborations or is one in-house?
 
Even if you're not the biggest fan of Japanese games, this helps insure a wider variety to the Playstation ecosystem. And thank fuck for that. Another generation of nothing but first person shooters and I'd be ready to turn off my system for good.

Besides, you never know where the next trend or "big thing" is going to come from. Who'd have thunk a game as obscure as Demon's Souls would have evolved into what it has? East, west, it doesn't matter. Lets see what everyone can do and go from there. This is the smart way to handle things.
 
Honestly, in my opinion I felt like last Gen a lot of the major games that came out of Japan focused so much on appealing to the west, that they lost their identities (Especially in the beginning, I'm looking at you Square-Enix). They isolated their userbase and we saw a dip in quality in a lot of the major Japanese games that were made for consoles.

This gen feels like a complete reversal.

It's noticeable. Last gen was in a lot of ways a wild, woolly, very greedy, very costly experiment to find out what as many people as possible wanted from HD, online-enabled gaming. After 8 years, graveyards of closed studios, the rise of Indie, and a dependable roster of bankable EA/Activision/Ubisoft franchises, we've got our answers. But that's not the whole picture, and a sizeable proportion of gamers representing those unknowing guinea pigs never quite got what they wanted, despite never leaving. We're starting to see some of the mechanics and genres that got kicked aside make a slight comeback as a result, and Sony courting Japanese developers is definitely symptomatic of that.
 
I'm happy but not surprised, Sony always does this. I'd be surprised if they funded more mid-tier Japanese games like Suikoden, Grandia, Lunar, and Shadow Hearts.
 
Even though Verendus hates Ken...

I love him all over again...

Tks for the updates man, and I hope to see SCEJ come back in a major way. Can you tell me if that studio had a hand in all of these games? It would basically solidify them as my favorite studio if true.

Gravity Rush
Primal
Ico
SotC
The Mark of Kri
Journey
Bushido Blade
Eiihendrez
Twisted Metal 2
The Legend of Dragoon
Dark Cloud 2
Ape escape
 
I'll be interested in what CC2 is cooking up.

In my mind's eye I imagine it looking like that original trailer for Lily Bergamo.

lillybergamo-3aakox.gif


I was so disappointed that Grasshopper cancelled Lily and turned into that awful looking Let It Die.
 
As much as I would love to see the return of the PS1/2 era back on PS4, this is a nice start considering the market is heavily leaning on smartphones.

PS1/2 was heaven for JRPG enthusiasts if memory serves me. I'd like Sony to secure some more surprise exclusives for it's console. Maybe they could fund the cancelled Mega Man Legends 3 if they're funding SFV... but I'm getting too ahead of myself.
 
Here's the last posts I remember making about the Sony RPGs. (That's a lie; I didn't remember, and just searched. It took a minute.) I've bolded what parts are relevant:

That's from mid-2013, and most of it is still true really. Nothing significant has changed since then. The big chunk of bold is relevant, because when the doors come off the first two JRPGs, and GG's project, I'll be able to explain a general idea to you of the ones beyond that by using them as a point of reference. It's going to be an interesting series of projects for that reason, because all the planned titles won't have a distinct medieval vibe, nor will they all have the very cartoony vibe you see from titles like Tales or Star Ocean. They'll all be different to an extent.

Obviously, the "WRPG" referenced in this post is the title everyone knows about now, and has nothing to do with the two JRPGs mentioned back then. You can ignore that, and you kind of have an idea of that one already to an extent. You can probably imagine what I mean now when I say "aesthetically striking, and imaginative" and trying to keep things unique.

That kind of philosophy is being applied in different ways in different places. Of course, depending on the projects and developers involved, the blend is different. The limitations are only because of the talent involved. But there's a strong variety, which is the main point.


This is what I found from late last year. The bold in this post basically tells you the rest of what you need to know. Obviously, SCE will want both these JRPGs to do well, but one in particular is all about the worldwide audience, because that's kind of how it was born. Bear in mind, no one is intending on taking five years to get a game out the door, nor is there any real expectation that the bigger of the two titles will manage to ship 6-7 million copies (that'd be great, don't get me wrong, but I'm sensible). It has good production values, and will impress, but it's not as big of a project as FFXV. FFXV has something like 400 people working on it, and will have taken about 5-6 years including pre-production when it's all said and done. It's better to take a title, set a more reasonable expectation, and then expand things beyond that depending on how successful it ends up.

Both JRPGs are scheduled to be announced this year, with one potentially falling into 2016 for its announcement. Two years was a long time ago, and we're not far from the unveilings now in comparison. Official reveals can do the rest for you.

Thanks for the update.

Love the idea of games (especially RPGs) with unique artstyles.
If Bloodborne and "Horizon" are only the beginning, in that sense, i can't wait to see the rest.
 
SCE achieving so many successful partnerships with the biggest Japanese pubs out there, all while there being no evident success of the PS4 (at the time these deals were made like you said), honestly baffles me. Maybe how it was done is too much to reveal though.

Looks like SCE has partnerships with every single Japanese publisher lol. SO4 was an atrocity but the gameplay was still solid. The series has give us great jrpgs before so I'll put faith into SO5.

I think there was enough evidence of PS4 being successful from the success of the PS3 since it basically tied with XB1 and how badly Japanese games do on XB1 even outside of Japan. I don't think anyone was expecting PS4 to be as successful as it is, but it would have had a decent sized audience, and the XB1's comparative lack of success was all MS's fault. The point is that if you are a Japanese company, it doesn't make sense to make XB1 games unless it is a franchise associated with the Xbox like Dead Rising or a really big name like Final Fantasy, Tekken, or Resident Evil, so it makes sense to just go defacto PlayStation exclusive.

As for why Xbox owners refuse to buy Japanese games, that's all down to audience. The Xbox audience wants shooters and buys Xbox for shooters, much like how the Nintendo audience wants platformers and buys Nintendo for platformers.
 
I'd like to see them fund Sega and GameArts

Valkyria Chronicles really deserves more, or at least fund SOME RPG from Wow, Skies of Arcadia or new IP would be fine too
 
Right now the majority of gamers on Xbox could care less.
That's good because the feeling seems to be mutual from Japanese developers, not surprising since most Japanese games underperform on Xbox.

The Japanese devs are way behind on the tech front and are losing revelance as time goes by.
I think we will see them have a bit of a resurgence this generation, the PS3 was hard to program for, unlike the PS4. And besides being technically inferior doesn't mean they still can't be fun does it? Is that salt I taste?
 
Right now the majority of gamers on Xbox could care less. The Japanese devs are way behind on the tech front and are losing revelance as time goes by.

Technical flair doesn't make a good game. Persona 5 is crossgen but its asthestic and gameplay systems will be infinitely more appealing this year than many AAA western titles that have come out. If that's your idea of "loosing relevance", i don't know what to say.

I'll be interested in what CC2 is cooking up.

In my mind's eye I imagine it looking like that original trailer for Lily Bergamo.

lillybergamo-3aakox.gif


I was so disappointed that Grasshopper cancelled Lily and turned into that awful looking Let It Die.

The current 'let it die' is what happens when Japanese devs get convinced by focus groups that they have to make their games for a 'western audience'. No thanks. Keep your aesthetics and your pride.
 
I think we will see them have a bit of a resurgence this generation, the PS3 was hard to program for, unlike the PS4. And besides being technically inferior doesn't mean they still can't be fun does it? Is that salt I taste?

Pretty much. At the moment he two highest rated games of the current gen are Japanese developed (Bloodborne and 3D World). Both also sold well. So it's not like Japan forgot how to make games or people stopped buying them.
 
NA and EU devs are all going to be multiplat this gen, so it makes sense for Sony to lock up the JP devs to get the extra exclusivity edge.

Also it never hurts to lock down your home territory, if Al Gore had bothered to win his home state of Tennessee in 2000 the Presidency of GWB would never have happened.
 
I think there was enough evidence of PS4 being successful from the success of the PS3 since it basically tied with XB1 and how badly Japanese games do on XB1 even outside of Japan. I don't think anyone was expecting PS4 to be as successful as it is, but it would have had a decent sized audience, and the XB1's comparative lack of success was all MS's fault. The point is that if you are a Japanese company, it doesn't make sense to make XB1 games unless it is a franchise associated with the Xbox like Dead Rising or a really big name like Final Fantasy, Tekken, or Resident Evil, so it makes sense to just go defacto PlayStation exclusive.

As for why Xbox owners refuse to buy Japanese games, that's all down to audience. The Xbox audience wants shooters and buys Xbox for shooters, much like how the Nintendo audience wants platformers and buys Nintendo for platformers.

I agree and about the xbox thing.....I don't see it as no one there wants to buy jrpgs, I see the situation more like everyone who is into jrpgs knows to get a PS4, hence the enormous skew.
 
I agree and about the xbox thing.....I don't see it as no one there wants to buy jrpgs, I see the situation more like everyone who is into jrpgs knows to get a PS4, hence the enormous skew.

So what you're saying is the PlayStation audience wants JRPGs and buys PlayStation for JRPGs.
 
Sony knows they need the big guns to have a successful console in Japan and the japanese publishers know Sony is their best bet if they want to see a healthy console market again.

I am more surprised they all ignore the Vita although it is selling ok-ish in Japan.
Well, at least on the publishers side because it doesn't surprise me that Shu is snubbing the Vita.
 
I see Sony in large swathes this gen basically as a re-run of what MS did right last-gen (and MS the converse). MS bought and paid for a shitload of Japanese games to come to the X360 that otherwise were assumed to come to PS3 as multi or exclusive. So I'm not terribly surprised.
 
I see Sony in large swathes this gen basically as a re-run of what MS did right last-gen (and MS the converse). MS bought and paid for a shitload of Japanese games to come to the X360 that otherwise were assumed to come to PS3 as multi or exclusive. So I'm not terribly surprised.
Except it's much more likely to work for Sony.
 
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