They haven't "settled". They will be adding more after the feature goes up for all XB1 owners.
MCV: PlayStation on Xbox backwards compatibility
- Thread starter TGO
- Start date
They haven't "settled". They will be adding more after the feature goes up for all XB1 owners.
100 titles by Holiday 2015. The library will be ever expanding.
itchyass86
Member
Not saying it's gonna be easy to achieve such a feat. Nope, I'm proposing that Sony commit some time and cash into researching their own code for the PS3 and Cell. Although the Cell was designed to be complex, I do believe that Sony knows more about Cell than any of us. I have every reason to believe that the folks who made the PS3 would be able to make a much better attempt at software emulation than the folks outside of Sony who have tried - and are still failing to crack it.
Also, the rhetoric in the OP's article seems to indicate that Sony is well-aware of how to implement BC onto the PS4 - be it software, hardware, or a combination of both. It's just that they have chosen to direct their resources and engineers towards PS Now.
Just to make it slightly easier though, I do hope that Sony would allow the production of a PS4 SKU with an added Cell Processor with modern lithography. I think the OG PS3 used 90nm lithography while the OG PS4 uses 28nm lithography. A modern PowerPC CPU uses 22nm lithography to reduce the cost of silicon while also reducing the thermal footprint. I would hope that both hardware and software-based efforts by Sony would be able to overcome the challenge of Backwards Compatibility.
Indeed, BC seems very hard to produce and hardware-based BC would make the PS4 even more expensive. Perhaps at this stage, if enough folks show demand for it, Sony could be willing to release a PS4 with a Cell inside of it.
If as you say - PS Now is meant for the 360 gamer who wishes to switch over to the PS4, then perhaps Sony should show the same support for the folks who've been playing on the Playstation since the original. I see that Sony spent 380 Million USD to acquire Gaikai, so perhaps Sony should spend that same amount (or perhaps a fraction of that) to restructure code for the Cell and perhaps work on implanting a modern cheaper Cell onto PS4 hardware itself for a new Premium SKU or some sort.
Just for curiosity's sake - I'm pretty curious about the numbers of subscribers/renters that PS Now is pulling in compared to the number of folks who would enjoy having BC added onto the PS4. I'm sure with the kind of rhetoric that Sony execs are speaking that they would have the kinds of numbers to support claims that BC would be an underutilized feature.
Hmm, what I take from your first sentence is that the infrastructure can only handle so much. If the service is unable accommodate the amount of bandwidth required to serve as many people it is currently providing service for - then shouldn't perhaps the service be scaled back until it is of reasonable quality? I do realize that scaling back would mean less subscribers/renters so that is why I phrased that question to demonstrate that efficacy of such a solution that is PS Now.
I do realize that MS is taking on the finances as a one-time expenditure to bolster support for its brand. However, PS Now is hardly a proven service that helps to promote the Playstation brand. The way it works right now just doesn't seem feasible for any long-time gamer, or heck - even a fickle person to enjoy. If Sony wants PS Now to be a viable Playstation-oriented brand then the service needs to be much better.
I do hope that PS Now gets good enough to use though. I'd hate to for Sony (or any company for that matter) to be wasting resources on a sub-par service.
If adding a hardware-based solution would only tack on 200 bucks to charge the consumer, then I'd be willing to pay that much. Sony wouldn't even have to change their current prices - the current SKU can continue to be built and become cheaper to produce while still charging the same price. Sony can continue to make money off of the PS4.
If another premium SKU with BC was offered, then it shouldn't hurt the bottom line. Only folks who want the BC feature would purchase that SKU while the folks who just want to play PS4 games can buy the current model.
Not only that, I like your idea of adding PS1 and PS2 emulation. I think both PS1 and PS2 emulation would be a whole lot easier to implement than PS3 emulation. Sony could probably implement emulation for these 2 generations without even changing the hardware.
BC for me is a feature that's nice to have, but it's not a system seller for me.
I didn't buy my Wii U for it's ability to play Wii games (this is my most used BC system though, since I elected not to take my Wii with me to Korea since the Wii U supports BC), nor did I buy my PS3 for it's ability to play PS1 and PS2 games (OG 20GB owner).
I didn't buy my Wii U for it's ability to play Wii games (this is my most used BC system though, since I elected not to take my Wii with me to Korea since the Wii U supports BC), nor did I buy my PS3 for it's ability to play PS1 and PS2 games (OG 20GB owner).
It's cool if they want to use PSNow for PS3 games (my internet service is with Comcast, so I have trouble with almost everything in PSNOW, so it's a useless service for me) but is there really an excuse as to why PS1 and PS2 games I've paid for on PSN aren't playable on my PS4? I really hope they don't do those on PSNow and actually just get all the games on PS4.
They are "starting" with 100 titles, more are coming.
Bias extends past the consoles wars. The word itself is probably ly from Latin or Greek or some other dead language.
it means you prefer something, and you're coming from a stand point where that preference is more important than the reality.
ex:
I live in boston. I am biased for public transportation. When I go somewhere, and there isn't adequate public transit, I say "it was hard to get around". I don't say "this place should have public transit".
It was only hard to get around because of the specific circumstance I was in, no license, no bike, no vacation, no geographical knowledge. For others they probably don't need transit.
but because my hometown is so engrained in trains and buses, and so many people here use them, I would be inclined to think that a transit authority better serves the public. In reality, it's not true.
I hope that clarifies things. Sometimes I tend to ramble.
Edit: to add to that, what I didn't mention is that the mbta ( boston transit) costs the taxpayers an obscene amount of money, is poorly run, and has generally unreliable service. For a city as compact and populous as boston, it works, but for others is probably a waste of money. On top of which, if the service is initially poor, misrepresentative, or fleeting, it could just end up as a debacle for the city. And I hope you now understand the complexity of the argument you're actually taking.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
At least be informed before you comment negatively on the feature. It's not 100 exactly it's 100 at least by Fall 2015 when the feature goes live for the public (likely alongside the new UI) They have mentioned that they will keep expanding it as much as possible. It's entirely based on the publishers allowance of this. Which unless they don't want to should be every 360 game you can think of.
barneystuta83
Member
Put yourself as a 360 owner who has yet to buy their gen console.
You are buying this holiday.
Come then, you can look at a stellar exclusive line up on Xbox One. Gears. Halo. Tomb Raider.
Many of your old games will work too.
If you are lucky, MS may have a trade in/upgrade option on the 360.
What do you choose?
Sony has already won many of the early adopters, taking share from MS.
For me personally, as An Xbox One owner, I am not interested in playing many 360 retail games. The odd few yes, anything I get free, sure.
But having my XBLA library accessible? Superb.
The IQ is excellent in what I have played so far. Also, the 360>Xbox One leap is not as big as a PS2>PS3. Just look at the screenshots of Mass Effect.
Sony backed PS Now. No doubt, MS thought about it too.
But MS nailed backwards compatability. If they can get a good chunk of the library on board, they have a superb USP up against their main competition.
You are buying this holiday.
Come then, you can look at a stellar exclusive line up on Xbox One. Gears. Halo. Tomb Raider.
Many of your old games will work too.
If you are lucky, MS may have a trade in/upgrade option on the 360.
What do you choose?
Sony has already won many of the early adopters, taking share from MS.
For me personally, as An Xbox One owner, I am not interested in playing many 360 retail games. The odd few yes, anything I get free, sure.
But having my XBLA library accessible? Superb.
The IQ is excellent in what I have played so far. Also, the 360>Xbox One leap is not as big as a PS2>PS3. Just look at the screenshots of Mass Effect.
Mass Effect
Sony backed PS Now. No doubt, MS thought about it too.
But MS nailed backwards compatability. If they can get a good chunk of the library on board, they have a superb USP up against their main competition.
Zeyphersan
Banned
Pretty much. At this point, I don't expect PS3 BC. That's fine. But give me the PS1 and PS2 Classics on the store.
intheinbetween
Member
I'm sure I'm not the only one who believes this kind of BC benefits publishers too, they can continue selling old games, they can keep making money from them, so it's a win-win situation for everyone
LOL I can't believe the rewriting of history here... PSNow not made for BC compatibility???
aygomyownroad
Member
i hope microsoft stay behind for most of this gen, not too far behind but just enough that they feel compelled to throw money at everything.
As an Xbox one owner I feel the same. Its great. They listen to the fans trying to make amends and if it means this and more new ips then brilliant!
But lets be serious here. How does ps now stream the games. I mean what is the servers like that the games come from? Is it a load of very high end pc architecture or do they need to use a load of cells stuck together?
I am happy because I can move my 360 to storage and put ps3 back in shelf rather than love it all about.
I was amazed when I found out ps3 Could play ps1 games, I even went out and bought all the wip3outs! It is a small thing but it means the games you have you can keep knowing they'll work.
I hope Sony finds a way to allow ps1 games. Would be cool but ps3 is too difficult
And DLC/Season Passes too. Also, it can be used as incentives to preorder/buy Xbox One versions of games. Buy Fallout 4 and you get Fallout 3 BC edition. Rainbow Six Siege comes with Rainbow Six Vegas 1 and 2 BC editions.
I think I will now go buy Modern Warfare 1 and 2 once they are added to the list. How is the community holding up in these games?
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
He's done a fantastic job to hide the salt there.
MrGreencastle
Member
Did you even read or watch anything about this? Have you even tried it? It's full BC. How is it not? The feature is in limited preview right now for testing, but you can expect a very large list of games to be supported unless a publisher specifically blocks it which will likely catch them a lot of flack considering how "easy" it is for Microsoft to get the stuff running at this point. The emulator is done. It works. They need an OK and a QA pass to get it out there. That's it.
Here is a pic I took this morning running Hexic HD on my Xbox One, with Twitch E3 snapped, and you can see the original Xbox 360 guide, with friends list, parties, all that jazz.
Zeyphersan
Banned
That's the entire point of a digital platform: long-term sales. Steam thrives off of selling content from every era. Old stuff keeps on selling
Some excellent points in your post. What's the attach rate of the 360 though? How many 360 owners have more than a handful of games (not gaf users btw). How many games have already been traded in? That then bring us to the point of someone with a console and a few games - will that person make a decision to upgrade because he can play those few games (maybe) that he/she has? I'm not sure. And will that new console owner look to buy last gen disc titles for that new console.
I'm not downplaying this in the least bit. It's good that MSFT did this because there will be users who benefit from this and that's a good thing.
Classic case of talking out of your ass.
GarthVaderUK
Banned
Maybe EA could add some 360 games to EA Access too, they're running out of Xbox One games as they've put so many of those in already (if you include Dragon Age Inquisition which was confirmed for the vault at E3, isn't it all of their games released so far except for Battlefield Hardline?).
Give War A Chance
Member
I was super impressed with this announcement and the implementation. Of course, only a VAST minority of the install base will actually make much, if any, use of the feature, but the option makes this pretty amazing.
I wonder if this means Microsoft's out of the HD remaster bidness after Gears Ultimate?
I wonder if this means Microsoft's out of the HD remaster bidness after Gears Ultimate?
Swass
Member
I love this feature.. seeing an addition 10+ titles pop up ready to download just adds value to the console. And with how cheap adding additional storage space the the Xbox One is.. it makes it that much more compelling to grab a bunch of older 360 titles digitally as they become available. Kudos to Microsoft.. and Sony knows this was Microsoft pulling an Ace from the deck.. it may not win them the generation, but I think America is in the bag now that they almost certainly guarantee 360 holdouts adoption.
a Master Ninja
Member
Not true. People were pissed enough that it made the news. Parents couldn't believe the system costed more and din't play the old games. This was back when people actually physically wrote angry letters and sent them through the mail.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I think you overestimate how much that type of late adopter consumer cares about old games.
gamechanger87
Member
Yep. I expect all games that are whitelisted will be available for purchase on the revamped XBO store. This will likely be announced at Gamescom.
I never expected PS3 BC. The architecture (cell + rsx) just makes it unfeasible. But I totally expect PSX and PS2 BC. I keep expecting an announcement at every major event and am always left disappointed. I seriously hope these comments are in reference to PS3 BC and not BC as a whole. Classics BC is the only other major feature I feel the console is missing at this point and it would be a damn shame for that to never happen.
dancrane212
Member
But with digital sales Microsoft and other publishers, once this work is done, will be able to sell all their 360 games without having to do a lick of work. There is incentive on Microsoft's part to get as many games working on XB1 where previous backwards compatibility became useless to them once new Xbox games stopped being produced.
Folk will buy/play old games digitally. Virtual console, Steam, or PS1/PSP digital games are proof of that.
If anything, I think it would mean that remasters would have to get better now. No more simple ports in 1080p; Companies have to actually remaster their games.
Same here, hope they are able to implement PS1 & PS2 soon.
Ugggh...
Omnistalgic
Member
Although b/c is being overstated on how important it is, its definitely a nice fan service and good thing overall. Sony really needs better software UI and OS guys. Customization with regards to UI, avatars, background, folders, all better on Xbox. And now with a quick side panel and Cortana integration, better media playback, its getting more lopsided. Granted these are features I care about maybe 10% of the time and it doesn't make me want an xbone because well, the games just aren't there for me. Still it would be nice if Sony had a better update system in place.
Emulation for at least ps1 and ps2 should be in the works.
Emulation for at least ps1 and ps2 should be in the works.
This is also true. Imagine trying to emulate the PS3 architecture via software. Would take a massive investment, and then they'd have to offer it for free like the Xbox One.
ArchedThunder
Banned
PS4 could so easily do PSOne, PS2, PSP and probably even Vita "classics", it's super weird that Sony hasn't announced anything, they're basically leaving money on the table.
Come on Sony, let me throw money at you!
Zeyphersan
Banned
In some sense, it doesn't matter. It's about getting the most content on your storefront as possible to increase purchases, and adding BC does just that. Come holiday there will instantly be 100+ more titles on the Xbox One store, and those are going to sell
No one complains about old games on Steam, or that they're not going to sell as well as new ones
Swass
Member
I think we were coming to the close of the remaster season.. there are finally getting to be enough new titles that we no longer need the remaster filler and I think Microsoft adding backward compatibility will only insure this is the case.
Yep. Cell is Kutaragi's Pearl Harbor. Without it, we might not even have an Xbox. Gates approached Sony about doing the software while Sony handled the hardware. Kutaragi essentially told them to pound sand. Now, Sony has to deal with Nintendo and the 800lb gorilla that is MS.
Pathfinder
Member
As much as I hope you both are right, as I much prefer native BC, I still fear Sony will find a way to work these into PS Now...
Swass
Member
I think PS4 is a guarantee.. wouldn't surprise me if the PS5 is the same architecture just with beefed up specs.
Hockeymac18
Member
Yes. Phil Spencer explained it in the Giant Bomb interview. None of the code is touched since as far as the game is concerned it's running on "the 360". And the Xbox One just thinks it's a game called "Xbox 360".
They might make changes to the overall emulator based on something they find out due to one specific game (during their QA testing), but that won't be a code-level change for the game itself - rather it's change to the overall 360 emulator.
This is nothing like what was done for OG Xbox games on the 360, where each game had to really be reworked in order to work on the 360. In theory, every game outside of multi-disc games (which they're still working on figuring out how to address) and Kinect games should work. The main limitations at this point for the vast majority of games seem to be licensing and publisher approval.
There no way they are switching from the x86 after the disaster that was cell.