HamsterExAstris
Member
Physical collector's edition is GameStop-exclusive. No GCU discount, alas.
Looks different to me.
Bungie apologizes for Taken King controversy, CE items to be sold separate
- Thread starter LiK
- Start date
The Sum of Zero
Member
Funny, I thought this thread was about Destiny. Maybe I misread the title?
burritosenior
Member
They value these aesthetic items the same as an entire DLC? If the Cookie Monster ate money, he would be here right now posing as Bungie/Activision.
burritosenior
Member
So what you're saying... is that what Bungie is doing is much, much worse than what Turtle Rock did with Evolve. That's what I'm getting out of that.
katsubento
Member
I've the feeling this will still change. Maybe they will get it right on their third announcement about TTK. HOW was a step in the right direction, and content wise, I'm fine with TTK, they just need to appease the day one people with something they feel is both rewarding to them and worth it.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Maybe you misread the post I was responding to, too.
MrGreencastle
Member
Do a nightfall or use a telemetry.
Gucci Messiah
Banned
$20 and Bungie can't even throw in some complimentary lube for this pounding? They sure love to gouge their customers, it's pretty sickening to see.
truestatic
Member
I don't get the outrage. It's basically an MMO. This is collector's edition in-game aesthetic shit, like WoW pets or mounts, right? Obviously you're not getting value for money in terms of content to dollar ratio, you're getting the... they're fucking TF2 hats. If the hat isn't worth the price, then don't buy the hat. Why balk at the price of unnecessary CE fluff in online games. It's given value as CE fluff because of its extravagance and rarity, and since they're willing to sell it online, it won't be rare as in 'limited in quantity'. This isn't even on par with the price bump you'd normally pay for the CE over the regular edition, nevermind the cost of some of the actually rare tradable cosmetic items we've seen over the years.
I think the issue is that 9 aesthetic items is the same price as previous expansions.
Mike Works
Member
Alright, since I'm seeing a lot of different points being attacked and regurgitated, I'm going to quick summarize why a lot of people are up in arms with this. I can't speak for everyone, but if you're confused as to why people are getting upset over cosmetic DLC, I think this is going to be fairly accurate.
1. The Promises of Destiny
Destiny was introduced with hope. Hope that the series would run for years, that it would equal and surpass the great shit Halo pulled off. Hope that the worlds would be huge, that "see those mountains, you can run over to those mountains" would, well, happen. And to Bungie's credit, Destiny pulled off a lot of what was promised. It attained things we were hoping for. Seemlessly moving from area to area with no loading (unless you got a super fast sparrow) worked. Going on a Raid was fun as hell. It did a lot right.
However, Destiny also got criticized for its lack of content. It turned out that no, you couldn't go over to those mountains you saw. The patrol areas were still very large, but missions and strikes repurposed them, not unlike that Simpsons episode where Marge kept repurposing that pink dress to make it seem new.
Basically, a lot of Destiny was repetitive. It was designed that way; the player wasn't meant to engage with the same mission story fifty times. They were meant to engage with the core gameplay, and the allure of upgrading and trying out new weapons and armor fifty times. It was alleged that there simply wasn't enough content in Vanilla Destiny. It's an arguable point, and one I can understand from both points of view.
2. Expansion Packs
Destiny is not an MMO. Or maybe it is. But it isn't. But is it? It's a question scientists and scholars will never debate because who gives a fuck. The bottom line is Destiny doesn't have microtransactions, and it doesn't have contemporary DLC. Instead, it has old-school expansion packs: The Dark Below and House of Wolves. Vanilla Destiny was released for the standard $60, and these expansion packs were subsequently sold for $20 each ($35 total if you bought them in a pack).
Like the initial release, there was both good and bad with the expansion packs. Some people felt that they too lacked content (again, they recycled patrol areas and retrofitted them for new missions). Some even felt that the two expansions had been carved out by Activision from the Vanilla release as a money grab. Is that true? Probably not, but Destiny's content issues were serious enough to make that possibility seem like, well, an actual possibility.
That's not to say the expansion packs were a disaster. The raid in the first expansion pack, connection issues aside, was good. Not as good as the first one (generally perceived), but still a solid raid. House of Wolves has been received even better. Is it still worth $20? Yes. No. Maybe. Subjective. Some people were pissed about a lack of Raid. Others are loving Prison of Elder (the battle arena that replaced the raid) and Trials of Osiris (a new high stakes PVP mode). Regardless of whether or not you feel the expansion packs were worth $20, the fact is they were each released for $20 (or $17.50 if you preordered them both). Which leads us to...
3. The Fustercluck
Destiny went through an interesting first year to say the least. Bungie and Activision kept a lot of promises and delivered a game that seemed to be inline with their initial vision. I've personally spoken to three different Bungie developers and heard some "fun" stories regarding development, but I said I wouldn't repeat them and I stand by that. It's been a divisive game (even before this thread!). It has a group of people that were burned so much that they still come into threads to trash it. It has an even louder and more passionate group of defenders. You may find the game boring, but the Destiny social experiment and experience can be described as anything but.
So here we are approaching "Year 2". Bungie and Activision are releasing a BIG expansion for $40. It's not as big as the Vanilla game, but not as small as the previous two expansions. So $40 seems like a reasonable middle ground. It'll be hard to assess that claim until the thing actually releases.
However, Bungie and Activision also announce a special collector's edition aimed at new buyers, which has all of the old content bundled, plus some special shaders and dance moves and pieces of neat armor.
As of a day or so ago, the only way people who had already purchased the original game and expansions could get these special items would be to re-buy the original game and expansions. Which made no sense. It was absurd. Worse still, Bungie's mouthpieces sidestepped any argument that this apparent purchase practice was ill-conceived. That's where Luke Smith's apology stems from.
Today, that got overturned in a sense. Now, people who want to buy the new upcoming expansion can also purchase those special items without having to re-buy the old content. This is a welcome and obvious change. It makes sense. So the original issue which people had has now been fixed.
Here's the new one, or at least one of the new ones: Bungie and Activision are asking fans to pay $20 for a handful of skins, dancing moves, and gear. Why does this suddenly seem to matter now?
Destiny is not an MMO. Or it is. Or it isn't.
But the one thing Destiny has never had is microtransactions and DLC, with the exception of the full-fledged expansions. There have been collector's editions and pre-order bonuses and other advertising tie-ins (exclusive E3 shaders, shaders you could get for pre-ordering other Activision games, etc).
But now, as a result of this bundling snafu, we're seeing a DLC pack of shaders, dancing moves, and gear.
And maybe that's not the worst thing in the world. There are tons of full-priced games that offer additional DLC and microtransactions.
The problem here is not one but many. Destiny has never had microtransactions and non-expansion DLC before. Now they do. Destiny has sold those previous expansions for $20. Now this paltry DLC is also $20. Destiny has arguably been starved for content in the past. Now they're making players pay extra for a small amount of trinkets.
So that's where all the piss and vinegar is stemming from. I didn't touch on the fact that people who are buying the Digital Collector's Edition are getting shafted compared to the Physical Collector's Edition buyers, because that's more of an industry-systemic issue.
Are there solutions to all this? Yes. Solutions that will appease everyone, Bungie and Activision included? Probably not.
But there's been a shitload of fuckery this past week, my friends. And unlike the Speaker, I did have time to explain why I had time to explain.
Or something. God damn Destiny's writing has some fucking problems.
1. The Promises of Destiny
Destiny was introduced with hope. Hope that the series would run for years, that it would equal and surpass the great shit Halo pulled off. Hope that the worlds would be huge, that "see those mountains, you can run over to those mountains" would, well, happen. And to Bungie's credit, Destiny pulled off a lot of what was promised. It attained things we were hoping for. Seemlessly moving from area to area with no loading (unless you got a super fast sparrow) worked. Going on a Raid was fun as hell. It did a lot right.
However, Destiny also got criticized for its lack of content. It turned out that no, you couldn't go over to those mountains you saw. The patrol areas were still very large, but missions and strikes repurposed them, not unlike that Simpsons episode where Marge kept repurposing that pink dress to make it seem new.
Basically, a lot of Destiny was repetitive. It was designed that way; the player wasn't meant to engage with the same mission story fifty times. They were meant to engage with the core gameplay, and the allure of upgrading and trying out new weapons and armor fifty times. It was alleged that there simply wasn't enough content in Vanilla Destiny. It's an arguable point, and one I can understand from both points of view.
2. Expansion Packs
Destiny is not an MMO. Or maybe it is. But it isn't. But is it? It's a question scientists and scholars will never debate because who gives a fuck. The bottom line is Destiny doesn't have microtransactions, and it doesn't have contemporary DLC. Instead, it has old-school expansion packs: The Dark Below and House of Wolves. Vanilla Destiny was released for the standard $60, and these expansion packs were subsequently sold for $20 each ($35 total if you bought them in a pack).
Like the initial release, there was both good and bad with the expansion packs. Some people felt that they too lacked content (again, they recycled patrol areas and retrofitted them for new missions). Some even felt that the two expansions had been carved out by Activision from the Vanilla release as a money grab. Is that true? Probably not, but Destiny's content issues were serious enough to make that possibility seem like, well, an actual possibility.
That's not to say the expansion packs were a disaster. The raid in the first expansion pack, connection issues aside, was good. Not as good as the first one (generally perceived), but still a solid raid. House of Wolves has been received even better. Is it still worth $20? Yes. No. Maybe. Subjective. Some people were pissed about a lack of Raid. Others are loving Prison of Elder (the battle arena that replaced the raid) and Trials of Osiris (a new high stakes PVP mode). Regardless of whether or not you feel the expansion packs were worth $20, the fact is they were each released for $20 (or $17.50 if you preordered them both). Which leads us to...
3. The Fustercluck
Destiny went through an interesting first year to say the least. Bungie and Activision kept a lot of promises and delivered a game that seemed to be inline with their initial vision. I've personally spoken to three different Bungie developers and heard some "fun" stories regarding development, but I said I wouldn't repeat them and I stand by that. It's been a divisive game (even before this thread!). It has a group of people that were burned so much that they still come into threads to trash it. It has an even louder and more passionate group of defenders. You may find the game boring, but the Destiny social experiment and experience can be described as anything but.
So here we are approaching "Year 2". Bungie and Activision are releasing a BIG expansion for $40. It's not as big as the Vanilla game, but not as small as the previous two expansions. So $40 seems like a reasonable middle ground. It'll be hard to assess that claim until the thing actually releases.
However, Bungie and Activision also announce a special collector's edition aimed at new buyers, which has all of the old content bundled, plus some special shaders and dance moves and pieces of neat armor.
As of a day or so ago, the only way people who had already purchased the original game and expansions could get these special items would be to re-buy the original game and expansions. Which made no sense. It was absurd. Worse still, Bungie's mouthpieces sidestepped any argument that this apparent purchase practice was ill-conceived. That's where Luke Smith's apology stems from.
Today, that got overturned in a sense. Now, people who want to buy the new upcoming expansion can also purchase those special items without having to re-buy the old content. This is a welcome and obvious change. It makes sense. So the original issue which people had has now been fixed.
Here's the new one, or at least one of the new ones: Bungie and Activision are asking fans to pay $20 for a handful of skins, dancing moves, and gear. Why does this suddenly seem to matter now?
Destiny is not an MMO. Or it is. Or it isn't.
But the one thing Destiny has never had is microtransactions and DLC, with the exception of the full-fledged expansions. There have been collector's editions and pre-order bonuses and other advertising tie-ins (exclusive E3 shaders, shaders you could get for pre-ordering other Activision games, etc).
But now, as a result of this bundling snafu, we're seeing a DLC pack of shaders, dancing moves, and gear.
And maybe that's not the worst thing in the world. There are tons of full-priced games that offer additional DLC and microtransactions.
The problem here is not one but many. Destiny has never had microtransactions and non-expansion DLC before. Now they do. Destiny has sold those previous expansions for $20. Now this paltry DLC is also $20. Destiny has arguably been starved for content in the past. Now they're making players pay extra for a small amount of trinkets.
So that's where all the piss and vinegar is stemming from. I didn't touch on the fact that people who are buying the Digital Collector's Edition are getting shafted compared to the Physical Collector's Edition buyers, because that's more of an industry-systemic issue.
Are there solutions to all this? Yes. Solutions that will appease everyone, Bungie and Activision included? Probably not.
But there's been a shitload of fuckery this past week, my friends. And unlike the Speaker, I did have time to explain why I had time to explain.
Or something. God damn Destiny's writing has some fucking problems.
>-Baron-Spamedi-<
Member
Wow. Slimy.
No doubt the UK customers will have to pay around £20 due to Activision/Bungies morally bankrupt 'special conversion rate'.
So that'd be around £60 ($95) compared to the $60 it would cost in the US.
Well at least I've had some good Destiny news this week. I sold my copy for £12.
No doubt the UK customers will have to pay around £20 due to Activision/Bungies morally bankrupt 'special conversion rate'.
So that'd be around £60 ($95) compared to the $60 it would cost in the US.
Well at least I've had some good Destiny news this week. I sold my copy for £12.
Im sure someone else has already broken down this math, but just to make sure Im understanding this correctly.
The physical Collectors Edition with Taken King is $80. Taken King alone is $40. The digital goods (emotes, shaders, etc) that come with the CE are $20.
Unless we assume the physical goods are worth nothing at all, does this mean Activision/Bungie are suggesting that the amount of content in the base game and two DLC packs is less than a $20 value?
Because that's kind of what I'm getting here.
The physical Collectors Edition with Taken King is $80. Taken King alone is $40. The digital goods (emotes, shaders, etc) that come with the CE are $20.
Unless we assume the physical goods are worth nothing at all, does this mean Activision/Bungie are suggesting that the amount of content in the base game and two DLC packs is less than a $20 value?
Because that's kind of what I'm getting here.
MistaPropella
Member
Greedy Assholes
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
I'm lost. I don't know what they're all selling anymore in all these bundles and editions. I'll read again...
John Caboose
Member
I feel shame for those ponying up $20 for this <$2 bullshit.
truestatic
Member
Still not seeing the issue. That's just wanting the extravagant CE cosmetic shit without paying the extravagant CE price.
No, of course not. You pay a premium for a la carte.
Japanmanx3
Member
Anyone supporting this better never try to talk to me about Amiibo's and how they are terrible. This is purely disgusting...
At least I like the Amiibo's I purchase and can use them for al the games they work with if I do decide to purchase the game.
At least I like the Amiibo's I purchase and can use them for al the games they work with if I do decide to purchase the game.
Seth Enosh
Member
It's only about 1-3 hours of playtime right now to get a level 28 character to 30 or above (without using any of the DLC content - legendary armor is dropping plentifully and is easy to buy at the tower using marks from strikes or crucible, and exotics can come at +42 light if you buy a new one from Xur on the weekend). Not anywhere near on the same level as regrinding exotics after upgrading them through Xur in TDB.
truestatic
Member
wait a second, their solution is to charge $20 for a few dance animations and shades... really??....
so to get the whole "experience", we will be paying $40 for the DLC alone + $20 for the collectors edition bonuses, so essentially $60 for a piece of DLC + some emotes... wow...
being an active destiny player since day one, even to this day, playing daily, this is a little worrisome, I was happy with the first 2 DLCs, but now I'm starting to feel ripped off...
so to get the whole "experience", we will be paying $40 for the DLC alone + $20 for the collectors edition bonuses, so essentially $60 for a piece of DLC + some emotes... wow...
being an active destiny player since day one, even to this day, playing daily, this is a little worrisome, I was happy with the first 2 DLCs, but now I'm starting to feel ripped off...
So you pay a premium because you've already paid money.
Makes sense.
At this point it's smarter to buy the CE and then sell the disc content to someone else for $20. That way you get the digital and physical goods for the same price as this fantastic deal they're offering.
Although the truly smart choice is to stop playing Destiny.
Oh wow, really? Well that's just... ugh.
pixel monkey
Banned
Charming. Wait, before you leave the Tower one last time... you forgot to gurgle, grunt and scream "EMOTES AND SHADERS... $20! GRRRR!"
Man, you really have a problem with people having a problem with Destiny, don't you?
BarringGaffner
Member
I honestly can't believe that their solution to a PR nightmare was to sell for that much. It boggles the mind.
$5 would have been insulting. $20 is just a huge fuck you very much. How did they not just make it free for people who already have Destiny + expansions? How did this happen?
$5 would have been insulting. $20 is just a huge fuck you very much. How did they not just make it free for people who already have Destiny + expansions? How did this happen?
pixel monkey
Banned
I'd say for *just* about as many times as you (and others like you) continue to support these yearly endeavors and their captains of industry over there for the games you like... but condemn it over here for those that others support.
Yep. Exactly that many more times.
Yes, keep defending Destiny by saying there is shittier practices that exists. Good job, Destiny! You're not literally the worst game ever!
You quit? Good. Glad they aren't rewarding quitters.
Is this a conversation about an exchange of time and money in return for goods and services or are we discussing little league softball?
Orochinagis
Member
The Expansion will cost $40, fine, give at least two planets with several zones, a main story line, several chain quests outside the main storyline,new enemies, a raid and PVP maps.
But no, we are in the dark again with the expansion information
pixel monkey
Banned
I find the hypocrisy quite humorous actually. If one were to read some of the venom and vitriol being hurled in here without background on the situation, you might think Bungie had not only announced that the collector's content purchase had already been charged to stored credit cards, but that they were also randomly deleting level 34 characters for shits and giggles.
All this anger over optional DLC, which includes three exotic class items that are conveniently left out of the rants, seems more than a bit silly.
MrGreencastle
Member
So wait. That's what I'm doing. I'll probably buy it come launch, but I'm not spending money on it until I know what's in it.
You're missing pretty much nothing by not buying the cosmetics. And it might just end up making them enough money to dedicate a larger team to supporting the game more often in year 2. Maybe. We'll see. There will probably be other exotic class items in TTK as well that you don't have to pay extra for, based on the language in DeeJ's update.
People "like me" are against practices which rip off gamers.
Not Destiny itself.
You're the one that seems to think we're all solely hating on this game while actively buying COD skins every year.
The ONLY reason it is an optional purchase is because of forums like these.
But their solution of charging day 1 users $20 instead of $40 is still laughable.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
AHA-Lambda
Member
This is what people wanted? :/
But no one is forcing you to buy it right now. Just wait till the last week when all the information is out. Even as a die hard and knowing I will buy it no matter what, I'm going to wait and see.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
ehnhnh, not exactly.
We know for sure there's a raid. We know there is a new campaign. We know that if you buy Red Bull, you get what sounds like a single additional mission. It says "multi-stage," but that's probably just "you go fight in this room, then you go fight in that room."
We know that they're still working out the details, but hoping to add abilities to all class items.
We know that they apparently have no idea how to handle old and new weapons, despite the obvious answer being "just upgrade stuff like you did last time."
We know there are three new subclasses.
The number of strikes iirc was gonna be 4. I think they were adding 6 MP maps.
A bungie video said we'd have "new patrols," but most people are expecting just one patrol. A leak indicated at least one mission on Saturn, which probably means not-actually-saturn, while the previews indicated one on either Phobos or Deimos.
Vesta Dynasty still hasn't been added to the game, frustratingly. Not sure if the Fate of All Fools can be looted or not.
The new enemy types, the Taken, feature the same silhouettes as previous Destiny characters but behave differently (that's... not good game design, imo).
The missions MAY all take place in discrete locations. They appear to function like short versions of Halo missions, based on previews.
There's a new playstation-exclusive gun. It's a scout rifle called the Jade Rabbit. Also: exclusive PS armor sets, exclusive strike (echo chamber, recycled sekrion strike), exclusive MP map (Sector 618, Earth, set inside the wall).
No word on what happened to the multiplayer map. I think it was called Black Shield. Was in a leak from a while ago. Looked like it was coming with Widow's Court but didn't.
There's a lot we know.
I'm not sure if the Dreadnaught is the new patrol or if it's just the new raid location.
Orochinagis
Member
The price will be the same regardless of content
Mike Works
Member
Not quite. This is a multiple-issue problem.
At first, Bungie said that the only way existing users could get this bonus content would be to re-buy the games they already own, which would cost $40. Existing users were angry.
Now Bungie is saying that existing users no longer will have to re-buy the old content, and can buy the bonus stuff separately. This is good, in practice.
The problem now (or one of them) is that the bonus content costs $20 and you do not get $20 worth of content.
The right move (or one of many right moves) would've been to just price the DLC at $5. Maybe even $10.
There's no way a few shaders, emotes, and gear are worth $20 when the previous expansions were each worth $20.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
How can anyone who is not bat-shit insane or likes to just argue, argue this?