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[noshten]

I'm not a bernie supporter, At all. Like not even a tiny amount.

Color me suprised

Sounds good! What could be better for American democracy than ensuring that only independently wealthy people can afford to run for office?

Hell if a wealthy person wants to take 5-10 years off and do a bit of public service - more power to them. Being wealthy isn't something inherently bad, being entirely money orientated is. There is more to life than money and power - this is something which clearly a lot of career politicians forget but most of them are so good lying they have become the lie.

 

[Maninthemirror]

It's not just me I think but Hillary is just not campaigning. She is hardly out there like sanders is she seems to be playing the waiting game. She hasn't even repeatedly attacked her opponents. Either a giant hornets nest is about to open and her campaign is going to come out guns blazing or they are confident enough to start late as she had only 1 realistic competitor who they are studying up on

 

[captainnapalm]

Don't forget "the only foreign policy issues that matter are the ones I can shit on Clinton about - pay no mind to Bernie's baby-like approach to free trade (and its impact on his immigration record)"

I think it's fair to say that Sanders isn't the ultimate answer to all problems. As a Democrat, he is still fundamentally part of the establishment. That article I quoted also mentions he wasn't really against the bombing of Libya either. He merely had some reservations due to the cost. Not exactly a moral crusader. He also apparently didn't oppose Israel's last excursion into Gaza, and we now how well that turned out for the people of Gaza.

He's certainly less of an establishment figure than Clinton, but he's not exactly V blowing up the houses of parliament with a Guy Fawkes mask on.

 

[eBay Huckster]

The fact that politicians end up in board rooms, just proves the system is badly designed. If you are holding public office you and your entire family should be barred from doing any business 5-10 years after you've retired, the IRS should be tracking every bit of income coming in. That's the only way to clear out corruption out of the current system.

Simply put: as currently and vaguely constructed, this will not have the effect that you intend it to and will in all likelihood do the exact opposite thing.

I think it's fair to say that Sanders isn't the ultimate answer to all problems. As a Democrat, he is still fundamentally part of the establishment. That article I quoted also mentions he wasn't really against the bombing of Libya either. He merely had some reservations due to the cost. Not exactly a moral crusader. He also apparently didn't oppose Israel's last excursion into Gaza, and we now how well that turned out for the people of Gaza.

He's certainly less of an establishment figure than Clinton, but he's not exactly V blowing up the houses of parliament with a Guy Fawkes mask on.

Those are fair points - and honestly, anyone currently in federally elected office is going to run into similar issues when it comes to being morally bankrupt on the subject of at least Middle Eastern policy.

 

[kirblar]

It's not just me I think but Hillary is just not campaigning. She is hardly out there like sanders is she seems to be playing the waiting game. She hasn't even repeatedly attacked her opponents. Either a giant hornets nest is about to open and her campaign is going to come out guns blazing or they are confident enough to start late as she had only 1 realistic competitor who they are studying up on

Letting the GOP circus have all the attention is not a bad move at all. Being conservative with money is important.

 

[DarkFlow]

Color me suprised

I know, shocking that people have different opinions!

 

[exmachina64]

I've heard of PACs/SuperPACs on The Good Wife. What are they, exactly?

Is this a serious question?

 

[Rubenov]

It's not just me I think but Hillary is just not campaigning. She is hardly out there like sanders is she seems to be playing the waiting game. She hasn't even repeatedly attacked her opponents. Either a giant hornets nest is about to open and her campaign is going to come out guns blazing or they are confident enough to start late as she had only 1 realistic competitor who they are studying up on

She underestimated Obama too, and didn't really push her campaign until it was too late. Since Obama or anyone like him is not showing up this time around, she can just chill in her elite bubble in New York

 

[gogosox82]

Is that a bad thing? Am I out of the club now? Also, who is "we"?

Your allowed to like or not like whoever you want but its painfully clear you don't like Bernie so I found it funny that you felt the need to point something so painfully obvious.

 

[noshten]

Simply put: as currently and vaguely constructed, this will not have the effect that you intend it to and will in all likelihood do the exact opposite thing.

Fill in the blanks for me, I might need it some day for my platform.

 

[DarkFlow]

Your allowed to like or not like whoever you want but its painfully clear you don't like Bernie so I found it funny that you felt the need to point something so painfully obvious.

What else do you find funny?

 

[Elfforkusu]

I would proudly vote for Bernie.

OTOH, I'll would hold my nose and vote for hillary, knowing she represents the best of the usual insider games and bs.

It's too bad we only have one viable political party right now.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Fill in the blanks for me, I might need it some day for my platform.

What are you including in "business"? Consulting? Lobbying? Anything with a salary above a certain level? If I'm a federal politician for 3-4 terms and then retire to work as a city planning lobbyist working to improve public transit in my hometown of Columbus, Ohio, do I have to submit to IRS audits? If not, why would I not have to and yet a different lobbyist would?

And furthermore, what does this do to stop corruption from actually affecting newly elected politicians?

 

[DarkFlow]

What are you including in "business"? Consulting? Lobbying? Anything with a salary above a certain level? If I'm a federal politician for 3-4 terms and then retire to work as a city planning lobbyist working to improve public transit in my hometown of Columbus, Ohio, do I have to submit to IRS audits?

I don't understand why he wants to punish people by not letting them get a job. "doing any business" is rather vague. Does he want them to be poor for 10 years?

 

[Abinash117]

She underestimated Obama too, and didn't really push her campaign until it was too late. Since Obama or anyone like him is not showing up this time around, she can just chill in her elite bubble in New York

That's true probably, but the thing is Sanders isn't Obama. Although, I wonder how long can she keep that going.

 

[Fenderputty]

Hell if a wealth person wants to take 5-10 years off and do a bit of public service - more power to them. Being wealthy isn't something inherently bad, being entirely money orientated is. There is more to life than money and power - this is something which clearly a lot of career politicians forget but most of them are so good lying they have become the lie.

Expected, but you missed his point entirely. Only the currently wealthy could run under your plan. Since they're not allowed to enter business after there's more incentive to stay career politicians as well

 

[gogosox82]

What else do you find funny?

Maybe you can post more interesting and insightful things like " a socialist can't win the presidency" and when you get called out on it you can say "hey, its just my opinion man, I don't even like Sanders."

 

[Aaron Strife]

I think we need to clarify that the "Well Hillary was inevitable in 2008!" is completely revisionist history. She had a lead in primary polling, yes, but not to the degree that she's been leading Sanders (even now) and Obama didn't come out of nowhere, he was well-known in political circles after his DNC speech in 2004. He was already a viable contender.

 

[DarkFlow]

Maybe you can post more interesting and insightful things like " a socialist can't win the presidency" and when you get called out on it you can say "hey, its just my opinion man, I don't even like Sanders."

okay. I find this funny.

 

[Damerman]

I think we need to clarify that the "Well Hillary was inevitable in 2008!" is completely revisionist history. She had a lead in primary polling, yes, but not to the degree that she's been leading Sanders (even now) and Obama didn't come out of nowhere, he was well-known in political circles after his DNC speech in 2004. He was already a viable contender.

You say you want to clear something up, but really it just sounds like you are making an argument for why hillary has a better chance this time. An argument i find weird because if obama was well known since 2004... Why wasn't it he that lead in the primaries if he ended up eventually winning primaries and general?

A lot of conjecture on my part, so if you could clear up that you dont have a bias for Clinton...

 

[noshten]

What are you including in "business"? Consulting? Lobbying? Anything with a salary above a certain level? If I'm a federal politician for 3-4 terms and then retire to work as a city planning lobbyist working to improve public transit in my hometown of Columbus, Ohio, do I have to submit to IRS audits? If not, why would I not have to and yet a different lobbyist would?

And furthermore, what does this do to stop corruption from actually affecting newly elected politicians?

You cannot work in any capacity within any major corporation
You cannot do lobbying/consultative services/private lectures with any major corporations or the government ANYWHERE. If you want to improve your hometown seek a position within your local counsel.
IRS watches all income within your family
While the NSA is tracking you with the same vigour they would track a potential terrorist target.

Once retired from politics - you are virtually retired for a period of time. During this time we strongly advice you to take up activities that benefit society. Any irregularity will be pinned down on you and the remaining of your life could be spend in jail.

Politicians/ex-politician are a threat to national security and thus only the most worthy are capable of holding office. Any convicted corruption case leads to arrests in both the lobbyist(unless he gives out who hired him) and the politician in question. Sentencing being 10 years minimum. Heavy fines are imposed on any corporation that has any links to such lobbyists and lobbying is outlawed completely.

 

[DarkFlow]

You cannot work in any capacity within any major corporation

So your first point pretty much makes getting any job impossible.

 

[eBay Huckster]

You cannot work in any capacity within any major corporation
You cannot do lobbying/consultative services/private lectures with any major corporations or the government ANYWHERE.

e: god damn it Neo

 

[NeoXChaos]

You cannot work in any capacity within any major corporation
You cannot do lobbying/consultative services/private lectures with any major corporations or the government ANYWHERE.

 

[kirblar]

I think we need to clarify that the "Well Hillary was inevitable in 2008!" is completely revisionist history. She had a lead in primary polling, yes, but not to the degree that she's been leading Sanders (even now) and Obama didn't come out of nowhere, he was well-known in political circles after his DNC speech in 2004. He was already a viable contender.

A lot of people were uncomfortable with Clinton and were pushing for Obama to run.

Her Secretary of State tenure did a huge amount to allay internal concerns.

 

[Hazmat]

You cannot work in any capacity within any major corporation
You cannot do lobbying/consultative services/private lectures with any major corporations or the government ANYWHERE. If you want to improve your hometown seek a position within your local counsel.
IRS watches all income within your family
While the NSA is tracking you with the same vigour they would track a potential terrorist target.

Once retired from politics - you are virtually retired for a period of time. During this time we strongly advice you to take up activities that benefit society. Any irregularity will be pinned down on you and the remaining of your life could be spend in jail.

Politicians/ex-politician are a threat to national security and thus only the most worthy are capable of holding office. Any convicted corruption case leads to arrests in both the lobbyist(unless he gives out who hired him) and the politician in question. Sentencing being 10 years minimum. Heavy fines are imposed on any corporation that has any links to such lobbyists and lobbying is outlawed completely.

Do you actually think this is realistic? I can't tell if you have unreasonably lofty ideals or if you don't understand how the world works.

 

[noshten]

So it seems you guys share something other than your love for career politicians

Do you actually think this is realistic? I can't tell if you have unreasonably lofty ideals or if you don't understand how the world works.

Realistic This is something I typed out in a few minutes - it's idealistic and based on the question presented to me by the hive mind of the clintonites. They asked what I'd do to remove career politicians from the current system and this is my answer and I'm sticking with it.

 

[Aaron Strife]

You say you want to clear something up, but really it just sounds like you are making an argument for why hillary has a better chance this time. An argument i find weird because if obama was well known since 2004... Why wasn't it he that lead in the primaries if he ended up eventually winning primaries and general?

A lot of conjecture on my part, so if you could clear up that you dont have a bias for Clinton...

I'm just saying that Hillary, while starting out with a lead in 2008, was never nearly as dominant in polling as she is now, and Obama was always very close behind until he overtook her.

Look man I'm voting for Sanders but this "Well Obama did it in 2008!" stuff is kind of disingenuous. Sanders isn't Obama and Hillary is a stronger candidate now than she was in 08.

I don't expect Sanders to win and it's very concerning when liberals are like "Well if Hillary's the nominee I'm staying home/voting third party/voting Trump" because first of all I hated seeing that shit from Hillary supporters during the 08 season and second of all are you serious.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Poe's law? Because that's painful naivety to the point of parody.

 

[AngmarsKing701]

A whopping 358 people in this poll, eh? Most of us could do a more statistically significant poll using our FB, Instagram and/or Twitter followers.

Also, as has been pointed out, Bernie is strongest with young white male liberals... who just happen to make up about 30% of the Democratic party.

 

[eBay Huckster]

So it seems you guys share something other than your love for career politicians

A love for reaction GIFs, mostly.

Neo's voting for Bernie and I'm still undecided.

 

[Walpurgis]

Is this a serious question?

Yes and it's sort of been answered. A work around to spend on campaigns without limit. I just don't understand why there needs to be a "work around". There are spending caps on campaigns? How much?

 

[ivysaur12]

Realistic This is something I typed out in a few minutes - it's idealistic and based on the question presented to me by the hive mind of the clintonites. They asked what I'd do to remove career politicians from the current system and this is my answer and I'm sticking with it.

It's unbelievably dumb to the point of parody.

 

[DarkFlow]

Yes and it's sort of been answered. A work around to spend on campaigns without limit. I just don't understand why there needs to be a "work around". There are spending caps on campaigns? How much?

It's more for people donating to you. I can give unlimited amounts to a super pac, I can only give your official campaign a few grand.

 

[eBay Huckster]

It's unbelievably dumb to the point of parody.

Like, if it was something like Nassim Nicholas Taleb's proposal regarding regulation of the revolving door that'd be one thing, because that's at least workable.

This? This is comical. So you're just going to ban anyone in politics from working for basically anyone for 5-10 years after their retirement, forcing either 1) any existing non-wealthy politicians to stay in the game much longer than they want to, or 2) the elimination of any existing chance by anyone not already independently wealthy to run for public office, given that they will literally be barred from earning money in almost every vocation for 5-10 years afterward.

 

[NeoXChaos]

A love for reaction GIFs, mostly.

Neo's voting for Bernie and I'm still undecided.

I am voting for Hillary in the primary.

Any various OT Bernie thread you read will make it quite obvious lol.

 

[eBay Huckster]

I am voting for Hillary in the primary lol.

I could've sworn you said you'd be supporting Bernie in the PoliGAF thread a couple weeks back, my mistake

 

[Abinash117]

So pretty much all dems including Obama, Warren, and Berine are a threat to national security.

Sounds like someone wants to be a far left dictator.

 

[dramatis]

A whopping 358 people in this poll, eh? Most of us could do a more statistically significant poll using our FB, Instagram and/or Twitter followers.

Also, as has been pointed out, Bernie is strongest with young white male liberals... who just happen to make up about 30% of the Democratic party.

358 'liberals' (people who identify as Dems + lean Dem). The sample size overall was somewhat larger, because they were also collecting data on matchups between Ds and Rs.

 

[zou]

How much money did the goverment get back from TARP? 50 billion or so? Oh right, how much did the banks get? OVER 16 TRILLION WITHOUT INTEREST? And they are still doing what they did before the crash that got us into it, so that another crash is perfectly possible!?

wow, you're hilariously uninformed. the US debt and TARP have nothing in common.

also, dodd/franks forced the banks to change their business and a number of them disposed of their investment businesses.

 

[NeoXChaos]

I could've sworn you said you'd be supporting Bernie in the PoliGAF thread a couple weeks back, my mistake

I've been waiting 7 years to finally vote for Hillary. I can't wait!

 

[Mifune]

I think we need to clarify that the "Well Hillary was inevitable in 2008!" is completely revisionist history. She had a lead in primary polling, yes, but not to the degree that she's been leading Sanders (even now) and Obama didn't come out of nowhere, he was well-known in political circles after his DNC speech in 2004. He was already a viable contender.

She was being dubbed the inevitable candidate at the time. That's not revisionist history.

 

[eBay Huckster]

wow, you're hilariously uninformed. the US debt and TARP have nothing in common.

fwiw, they're TECHNICALLY not wrong - there *was* roughly $16 trillion worth of loan disbursements during and after the recession, partially as a result of TARP

the issue is that representing this as a lump sum, and solely because of TARP, is intellectually dishonest as hell

(there's also the fact that "zero interest" is also inaccurate, but, y'know, toplines.)

 

[noshten]

It's unbelievably dumb to the point of parody.

Where we are heading and what future generations will inherit is unbelievably dumb. With the knowledge we possess we have no excuses.
What is stopping the progress, what is causing us to lose sight of what is happening to the Earth, what is allowing publican opinion to be shaped by PR firms instead of scientific discoveries? Why aren't there protests after every knucklehead quote from the (R) about climate change, because we are deeply entrenched in the system that can barely see what is but a few feet away and has no interest what is beyond the horizon. The current World elite should be held accountable for not doing enough to stop total annihilation of millions upon millions of people. We actually have the means now to annihilate ourselves - unlike 100 years ago. And we are not doing anything to change our course because it might stop someone from getting even more wealthy. How long do you think this system is sustainable if the oceans rise a few meters in the space of a few years. The data is there catastrophic changes in the weather can occur in a short amount of time.

I'm just enjoying myself with life - which is wonder to even facilitate with thought. To me it's pretty obvious what will happen at this point and it's pretty inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. You have to be Zen and adapt in this life.

So pretty much all dems including Obama, Warren, and Berine are a threat to national security.

Sounds like someone wants to be a far left dictator.

Potential Threat

 

[zou]

fwiw, they're TECHNICALLY not wrong - there *was* roughly $16 trillion worth of loan disbursements during and after the recession, partially as a result of TARP

the issue is that representing this as a lump sum, and solely because of TARP, is intellectually dishonest as hell

(there's also the fact that "zero interest" is also inaccurate, but, y'know, toplines.)

oh lol, that's even more pathetic. seriously, on monetary/fed issues sanders and his supporters come across as ron paul lunatics.

 

[pigeon]

So it seems you guys share something other than your love for career politicians



Realistic This is something I typed out in a few minutes - it's idealistic and based on the question presented to me by the hive mind of the clintonites. They asked what I'd do to remove career politicians from the current system and this is my answer and I'm sticking with it.

Yeah, it kind of reads that way -- like you kept adding new things to the bottom as you realized the stuff you'd written was unworkable until you eventually arrived at the logical conclusion of just declaring all political activity illegal. Which is fine, I understand the Soviet Union had a similar policy and it all seems to have worked out okay in the end, so, you do you.

 

[dramatis]

Yes and it's sort of been answered. A work around to spend on campaigns without limit. I just don't understand why there needs to be a "work around". There are spending caps on campaigns? How much?

By campaign law, the limit one individual can donate to an official campaign (I think it's also separated into 'primary' and 'general election' periods) is $2700. PACs are also limited by campaign contribution rules, so they have a hard limit on how much they can contribute to a campaign too. It's easy to find via Google, because it's all public knowledge.

SuperPACs differ from PACs in the sense that the way they spend money is different from how PACs spend money. In the 2010 case Citizens United vs. FEC (commonly known as Citizens United) did some complicated shit, but the general idea of the decision in the case is that SuperPACs can take unlimited contributions. So SuperPACs allow rich individuals and corporations to circumvent campaign law and donate to their candidate of choice as much as they desire, as long as it is to a 'SuperPAC'.

The downsides are that the SuperPAC cannot coordinate with an official campaign (lol like that's difficult) and that generally, advertising rates for official campaigns have to be lower and more favorable, so a SuperPAC would have to spend more money on the same amount of TV time, or other advertising venues.

Campaign finance laws make it so that 'work arounds' are what rich individuals and corporations would want to give their cause or candidate more aid.

 

[danwarb]

Don't forget "the only foreign policy issues that matter are the ones I can shit on Clinton about - pay no mind to Bernie's baby-like approach to free trade (and its impact on his immigration record)"

Does free trade mean something else in the US? I don't see the connection. Being a good socialist he no doubt has protectionist leanings. Free trade deals haven't done US industry and its communities much good.

Destructive foreign policy and the drug war will impact immigration.

 

[noshten]

Yeah, it kind of reads that way -- like you kept adding new things to the bottom as you realized the stuff you'd written was unworkable until you eventually arrived at the logical conclusion of just declaring all political activity illegal. Which is fine, I understand the Soviet Union had a similar policy and it all seems to have worked out okay in the end, so, you do you.

Soviet Union had no such policy, the policy was to remove whoever was inconvenient to the Politburo including members of their own party. The Politburo itself wasn't elected since there was no democracy there.

My idea isn't the greatest but we were strictly talking about one part of a different system than the one there is in place. Everyone should have their own ideal system different than the one we have in place, since it's obviously not ideal to have billions of dollars deciding elections, big business deciding agendas while Wars are used to stimulate the economy and win important leverages on a Global front. Perhaps through thinking about solutions instead of just shutting them down we might find a much better alternative.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Does free trade mean something else in the US? I don't see the connection. Being a good socialist he no doubt has protectionist leanings. Free trade deals haven't done US industry and its communities much good.

1) It's precisely because of those leanings that I take him less seriously, because...
2) ...free trade by itself didn't lose the US all of those jobs (and I'm not sure how many it lost or gained, period, because all I ever see in opposition are worthless platitudes from people pandering to a specific sector), and going in the exact opposite direction isn't going to bring them back.

Destructive foreign policy and the drug war will impact immigration.

Destructive foreign policy and the drug war have close to nothing to do with my issues with Bernie's immigration stance.