SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).
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Dick Justice
Banned
Except he's characterised as a father to his men in MG1/2.
He tends to get sole credit. I think it's clear that a competent Metal Gear Solid game can be made without him (or, at least, written without his input).
He gets sole credit and that's not really true, take Fukushima for example. Every MGS game he was part of was received positively in story than the ones he wasn't part of and was completely written by Kojima.
As a game designer and director Kojima is legendary and unmatched but his writing needed help from others and as such he was not entirely responsible for it and it certainly was not entirely "his"
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
I'm not stripping away his game design skills which are obviously amazing.
At this point I think it's obvious his writing is worst than sub-par as evident of the past three games story and writing when compared to the first three.
Ether_Snake
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TheLostBigBoss
Banned
It's better still than most games
The writing?
No, I can't say that compared to most AAA games MGS has had better writing after MGS3.
I've been very open about how much I hate MGS4 and the story of Peace Walker. After MGSV I personally feel that Kojima alone can't write these stories, and when given free reign things just get bad.
Kinda like George Lucas in a way. Dude had a lot of restrictions and other people guiding him in the first three films, the last three prequels had nobody question him and he was given complete control.
In fact it's kinda staggering... Phantom Menace had Jar Jar as comedic relief and was supposed to be a major character and MGS4 had Johnny poppy pants become a main character...
oh my god
It's still better story-writing than most games
More complicated and interesting plot yes (sometimes even decent)...but not really better written story or storytelling.
MGS4 is an example of good plot affected by bad writing...PW and MGS5 are examples of average to bad plot and bad writing.
TLoU or Witcher 3 are for instance, examples of good plot with excellent writing and storytelling.
Post MGS3 games in the MGS series don't compare to games like these...MGS3 and the games before though, they were brilliant at this.
entremet
Member
Metal Gear Solid V's story synopsis:
LOL.
Given your avatar, I'd think you'd already be upset of at how Kojima has treated poor Otacon lol.
A genuinely good guy that keeps losing women he loves--Wolf, Emma, Naomi
LOL.
Given your avatar, I'd think you'd already be upset of at how Kojima has treated poor Otacon lol.
A genuinely good guy that keeps losing women he loves--Wolf, Emma, Naomi
It's tragic. But I think Sunny says that he's been lucky with women during MG: Rising?
entremet
Member
I don't remember, but at least he has Sunny now. I forgot about her and how he adopted her.
SkylineRKR
Member
Hal fucked his step mom and Naomi. He gets credit.
entremet
Member
Show me the receipts.
It was pretty cramped in that plane lol. Plus they had a kid on board.
In MGS4 it is pretty clear he fucked Naomi.
Love it! But I prefer the MGS4 version.
You can give more credit to the entire team. I'm all for that. In fact, I prefer that. But you don't have to take away from another to do it.
I'm not finger pointing at any one of you, btw.
The Silver
Member
She's dead, that's proof enough
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Venom keeps growing on me. I still wish we either A) went back to playing as BB after the big reveal or B) Got a game actually about BB, but there are a lot of things about Venom that I like.
While Venom is building Diamond Dogs, which later turns into Outer Heaven, he slowly adapts to Big Boss' leader persona while also maintaining his own unique personality. He's a stoic and reserved leader, and carries "Boss" charisma in his own way. And no, I don't mean his almost-silence in cutscenes, which is an asinine design decision no matter how you cut it. When he talks, he displays who he is very well. It's different from how BB is portrayed in MGS3, PW, and even Ground Zeroes. He's calmer, more gentle, and more prone to show sadness. The scene where Huey berates him after the outbreak and he says "You're right, it is my fault" doesn't seem like something the real Big Boss would admit to. But at the same time, he doesn't come across as weak. Ground Zeroes Snake and BB's "Ishmael" persona shows someone that's headstrong and bold. Even his manner of speaking is more concise than Venom's. It's an interesting juxtaposition between the two - the Boss and his phantom. The same character but very different at the same time, much like Boss' three genetic clones.
Venom, after recovering his memories, doesn't seem at all upset about the ordeal (although one could argue the mirror punching scene a variety of ways). He goes on being Big Boss' #1 man. He's the model loyal soldier, the perfect representation of the belief people have in Big Boss and the lengths to which they will go to serve him and see his dreams realized.
I would find a lot less wrong with his character if he wasn't used for the series' sendoff entry. There's a lot of interesting stuff they can do with Venom in future installments, and even in a remake of Metal Gear.
TL;DR I found the plot twist really awkward at first but there are some good things about it.
While Venom is building Diamond Dogs, which later turns into Outer Heaven, he slowly adapts to Big Boss' leader persona while also maintaining his own unique personality. He's a stoic and reserved leader, and carries "Boss" charisma in his own way. And no, I don't mean his almost-silence in cutscenes, which is an asinine design decision no matter how you cut it. When he talks, he displays who he is very well. It's different from how BB is portrayed in MGS3, PW, and even Ground Zeroes. He's calmer, more gentle, and more prone to show sadness. The scene where Huey berates him after the outbreak and he says "You're right, it is my fault" doesn't seem like something the real Big Boss would admit to. But at the same time, he doesn't come across as weak. Ground Zeroes Snake and BB's "Ishmael" persona shows someone that's headstrong and bold. Even his manner of speaking is more concise than Venom's. It's an interesting juxtaposition between the two - the Boss and his phantom. The same character but very different at the same time, much like Boss' three genetic clones.
Venom, after recovering his memories, doesn't seem at all upset about the ordeal (although one could argue the mirror punching scene a variety of ways). He goes on being Big Boss' #1 man. He's the model loyal soldier, the perfect representation of the belief people have in Big Boss and the lengths to which they will go to serve him and see his dreams realized.
I would find a lot less wrong with his character if he wasn't used for the series' sendoff entry. There's a lot of interesting stuff they can do with Venom in future installments, and even in a remake of Metal Gear.
TL;DR I found the plot twist really awkward at first but there are some good things about it.
mgs2master2
Banned
apparently he snaps after that truth ending. When he looks into the mirror and sees the bloody monster he became, in "Outer Heaven" behind him. So i guess it is a time jump like others said (either that or symbolism of both Snakes forming to be a single big boss). Maybe he realized he became a demon because of a man.
Idk that ending has alot to interpret from. Hopefully one day we got proper epilogue DLC or some sort of explaination
Edit: that post above mine i agree with. I just feel there is more to it than that. I am satisfied though and It is kinda cool that it is left to our interpretation. I would rather get a proper ending though..
regardless being satisfied, game still feels incomplete and thats what kills me. I will remember that when I look at my Medic Snake's arm with my CE
SkylineRKR
Member
Didn't the leaked tape confirm that he came to terms with being BB's double? Even that piece was fucking cut. Best VA from Kiefer too.
In MGS4 it is pretty clear he fucked Naomi.
Love it! But I prefer the MGS4 version.
MAH MAN
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Leaked tape?
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
leaked as in data mined.
KOMANI
KOMANI
it would have been cool if we faced the real big boss as a last boss fight... And died .
Roufianos
Member
You know what else sucks? Venom was needed in the first place because "the whole world" wants Big Boss dead yet not one attempt is made on his life other than from Skull Face who was an already known threat. Also is it even fitting for a legendary soldier to go into hiding? He's no better than Zero hiding behind the system.
This is just like the Liquid twist in 4. It's a twist for the sake of it. It doesn't evoke awe or a sense of admiration. It's not good story telling. It just feels like a giant fuck you to the fans.
This is just like the Liquid twist in 4. It's a twist for the sake of it. It doesn't evoke awe or a sense of admiration. It's not good story telling. It just feels like a giant fuck you to the fans.
SkylineRKR
Member
Seriously? I think Morricone can't be touched. MGS4 version is too slow and over dramatic for my liking.
Love it! But I prefer the MGS4 version.
Never even realized it's in MGS4 too
Now I gotta go find it
There should have been hit squads sent after Big Boss in the field. Like you're doing a random side op and Cipher sent in teams after you.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
BB doesn't go into hiding, he just needs someone to take his face (and the world's attention) while he does his own thing. Which could be a number of things but involves rescuing Frank Jaegar and Naomi, doing stuff in Russia as Saladin, working with the US government as the leader of FOXHOUND to sabotage the sabotage of Outer Heaven (which didn't go so well, lol), etc.
Yes, it is a contrived twist, but not a totally nonsensical or unbelievable one.
KOMANI
KOMANI
The guy who asked for his pay to be reduced so that way they bring the original VA for Twin Snakes? Nah. Plus, there were never negotiations.
Wish we got to play that game.
It's the ending credits song. Check it out. Personally I like it a lot more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOVkYAxHvkk
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
This gives Venom so much character and only reinforces my growing affection for him. I really wonder why this was cut at all.
Me too, my friend, me too. I know it sounds like I'm defending everything MGSV did, but I'm not. I'm looking for the good in what is there, though, and while we could have had something else, what we got isn't all bad. In fact, the only reason the twist has bad elements to it is because it takes way from what could have been.
Ether_Snake
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Hey I just realized, when Ocelot gives BB the passport, it has the name of the player and his photo, but Ocelot tells him "that's your name as of today... you best change face too.". The photo is for BB to change his face to medic's. I mean, if they made a phantom for Big Boss, why would he keep his face?
So, presumably, he does? If so, can you imagine a future MG game that uses MGSV save, and Big Boss looks like your "avatar"?
So, presumably, he does? If so, can you imagine a future MG game that uses MGSV save, and Big Boss looks like your "avatar"?
SkylineRKR
Member
Yeah my name was on BB's passport. He's us in the classic MG games.
Wow that's.. Dramatically different lol. Not bad, but I gotta say I also prefer the original. Like SkylineRKR said, this version's a bit too over dramatic, maybe?
Hell, the original might be my second favorite credits song in video games, right after Faunts' M4pt2 in Mass Effect. I didn't really care about the story stuff in GZ, but Here's to you still managed to give me massive goosebumps when it played. Partly because of the hype for TPP, probably.
You're right, there are some good thing's. I don't actually think the ending is bad, but its the ending nobody wanted.
Ah, that's ok.
I think I prefer the MGS4 version because the tone fits with the scene that plays immediately before it (Which is Big Boss' dying over The Boss' grave while Solid Snake watches in silence).
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Is this in Phantom Pain?
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I don't really agree with this fully, but this is a hilarious analysis of MGS from the Youtube link above:
mgs2master2
Banned
YOOOoooo This is wonderful. This basically throws the whole Big Boss being mad at Venom Snake theory out the window. He accepts this destiny and is happy with it.
Also YOOOOO to the truth tapes after the truth mission. Alot of this is now making more sense.
CambriaRising
Member
Just finished it.
I liked it a lot. Not sure what all the rage is about. I watched the scene that was cut as well and, while its disappointing that it was cut, I am ultimately okay with the way the game ended. It seems pretty clear that this game was going to lead into MG1/2 remakes due to all the set up at the end but maybe that Kojima realized what was going to happen and it was too late to fix it.
I feel like that already happened in MGS4 and PW, so I don't really care.
I liked it a lot. Not sure what all the rage is about. I watched the scene that was cut as well and, while its disappointing that it was cut, I am ultimately okay with the way the game ended. It seems pretty clear that this game was going to lead into MG1/2 remakes due to all the set up at the end but maybe that Kojima realized what was going to happen and it was too late to fix it.
I feel like that already happened in MGS4 and PW, so I don't really care.
Hands of Stone
Member
It neuters Big Boss as a character is what hurts the most.
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