TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Solidus wasn't a part of Les Enfant Terribles.
SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).
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Solidus wasn't a part of Les Enfant Terribles.
freikugeln
Member
If Solidus was Venom the dna test with Eli wouldn't be negative.
mgs2master2
Banned
Didnt know solidus was a full grown man who happened to be Big Boss's right hand man before his birth
Also when you look at MGS4, all three clones are not identical on the genetic level.
or might be. I really dont have a clue
minameissteve
Banned
I mean... it could also explain how they were able to give him Big Boss' face in under 48 hours. It wouldn't be a matter of giving him someone else's face, but rather giving him his old face back.
Maybe Solidus, being a clone, wants to become his own man, changing his face and joining MSF. Maybe he wanted to know more about the man he was cloned from? Maybe that's why he was angry at the end, because now he realizes he's back to being a phantom of Big Boss, despite Big Boss telling him he's now his "own man". This manipulation would also explain his hatred for Cipher, and give context for why he wanted to leave his mark on the world in MGS2.
Sorry. I'm just trying to find a reason not to hate this ending. I was just really holding out hope that if Venom wasn't actually Big Boss, he would really be Solidus. I still think it's a possibility, though.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Solidus is even younger than Eli and David.
I'm glad I hadn't watched the launch trailer, because it was a legit cool moment seeing it stand up.
sti4thewin
Member
TPP did have the best metal gear fight.
SkylineRKR
Member
MGSV contradicts. MGS4 was all about Liquid Ocelot testing DNA on the system. The first 2 failed, which were Liquid and Solid DNA. Only Solidus succeeded.
Which means that Eli and BB never matched to begin with. Which means the tape in V is irrelevant.
MDSVeritas
Member
Like some other people have mentioned, I see it as a sort of riff on Raiden in MGS2 as he relates to Snake, but with a different angle. It seems to be a meta commentary directed towards the player about their involvement in the series. What Big Boss, what any character in the series, has a accomplished, is both theirs and ours. Separate but inherently intertwined.
I kinda dig the twist personally, but it was certainly jarring and I'm still a little cool on certain elements of it.
I also find it intriguing that this sort of meta-narrative was placed in the first open-world MGS game as those are often the games with the most discussion about what we can make a character do or not do and what is our action as the player and their action as the character. We're inhabiting Big Boss; our choices are our own and the things we do are our own will, but the legend we're furthering, the story we're telling with those actions is not ours. I think that ends up applying to a lot of games at large too.
Like, I said, pretty high-concept, and it's hard to say how much of that Kojima was really intending, but it seems up his alley and I'm not opposed to some of the themes that may be threaded through the ending.
minameissteve
Banned
And yet he's an old man in MGS2 and nearing death (the same way Solid Snake was in MGS4).
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
metal gear solid v is an amazing stealth game with the metal gear name slapped on
The Silver
Member
MGS4 is about them being a 100% match.
MGSV is just seeing if Eli and Venom were related, all the clones would match up.
I think of it as a Far Cry / Splinter Cell hybrid wearing Metal Gear Solid's skin.
OverdriveOtaku
Member
So I beat the game 2 days ago and since then I've been doing side ops, but just now, the shrapnel piece in my head just got longer when I stopped by Mother Base. Like, permanently longer. What did I do to cause that?
Mexican Sting
Member
Of course Liquid and Big Boss would never "match." If paternity tests only looked for exact genetic matches, there'd be a lot of dudes on Maury with get out of jail free cards.
SkylineRKR
Member
makes sense.
Mr. Smiley
Member
You enjoy all the killing. That's why.
You have a lot of demon points, which are earned by alot of "deeds" that's not just killing people.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
they should match because, you know, they're clones, except MGS4 says that they're not exact
Big Boss would match with Solid and Liquid, but not 100% the same. Something like "closer than father and sons, but not exactly the same man".
Solidus on the other hand is 100% a clone of Big Boss. Absolutely zero differences.
I see what you are saying but it's so sophomoric and cliché at this point in "video games as art" being a thing. Why rehash an old concept and do it poorly? If this was Kojimas intention, he failed miserably.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
MGS2 is art
MGSV is just another game
MGSV is just another game
SkylineRKR
Member
This Twist biggest failure is that without it almost nothing would change. Ishmael could've been the Medic (it would actually explain him fighting like a noob against Quiet and using proper syringes and dislocation fixes.. and having no beard and 2 eyes?) and everything would pan out the same, BB starting Outer Heaven himself.
VS being oblivious and being teached again could be attributed to the fact hes been sleeping for almost a decade.
VS being oblivious and being teached again could be attributed to the fact hes been sleeping for almost a decade.
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
I wouldn't put it past Kojima. /facepalm
MGS2 is bad art. It says a lot of good things but presents them in the worst, most convoluted ways.
This is also true. It's a fun game that succeeds at being mediocre art; which is a lot more than most games could claim.
minameissteve
Banned
"The accelerated aging written into each clone's genes provided the fail-safe of a limited life-span, should Solidus's genetic data fall into enemy hands or he himself turn against the Patriots. Despite being preceded by his brothers, Solidus appeared more aged than the other two clones in his later life."
Yeah, I'm bringing up the Metal Gear wiki... Honestly, I believe it's fairly accurate. As for the DNA testing, I don't know. Do we know what they were looking for? Were they looking for an exact clone? Or just any similarity?
It's tiring and really transparent. Kojima obviously knows the buzzwords that fans want to hear like "Outer Heaven" and "missing link" and that's why they're all over the trailers. But when it comes to actually playing the games, they're nowhere to be found except for a few brief mentions of Outer Heaven by characters. No descent into madness and villainy by Big Boss. We never get to see the construction of Outer Heaven. For all the trailers for this game suggesting some dark places psychologically, all the teases by Kojima early in development for project Ogre and demons, what we end up getting is a game where the real Big Boss helps a medic who saved his life escape a hospital then he rides off on a motorcycle. The greatest soldier who ever lived runs and hides. Or is that the point, that the "legend" has surpassed the man's actual deeds and he no longer lives up to the hype? Is Big Boss just an idea now, an ideal that any soldier with the determination and ability can adopt, while John is the real, flawed man? At the end of Peace Walker Big Boss gives that speech about the whole world coming after them and that they'll be ready to fight. Guess he meant everyone except him.
SkylineRKR
Member
How did they become demons anyway? VS says it after like the first mission. He's just been awake and did nothing significant yet.
After 50 missions he still didn't do many significant things, except for saving kids and letting Huey live. Yeah he killed his own infected soldiers as they were already dead and some even asked for it. He saved the rest by doing it.
After 50 missions he still didn't do many significant things, except for saving kids and letting Huey live. Yeah he killed his own infected soldiers as they were already dead and some even asked for it. He saved the rest by doing it.
OverdriveOtaku
Member
Huh, interesting. Is there somewhere I can check my personal stats?
I wouldn't murderize everyone if they gave me my damn NL Assault Rifle suppressor already or durable suppressors for my Sniper Rifle.
Roufianos
Member
Yea Solidus aged faster but I doubt he was a fully grown medic when he was a year old at most.
That having been said, the idea of V being an accelerated clone of BB is infinitely more appealing than him being some random medic.
BETTER YET LET US PLAY AS BIG BOSS AS WE WERE PROMISED!!!!!!
That having been said, the idea of V being an accelerated clone of BB is infinitely more appealing than him being some random medic.
BETTER YET LET US PLAY AS BIG BOSS AS WE WERE PROMISED!!!!!!
When he got the Honey Bee weapon.
He became a demon for such little a weapon as that.
Presentation has always been the biggest problem with the series. The team has a lot of good ideas and lot of things to say but no idea how to say them.
But it's also kind of charming and one of the things I've loved about it
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
It's not fully destroyed right? It just disappeared after I took it down from the helicopter?
freikugeln
Member
Yes,even if he had the chance to direct a MGS6 with Big Boss he would still make up a new scenario in-between again.
This actually pisses me off a lot. Big Boss was ready to fight the entire world, WHOEVER dared to go against MSF, to the bitter end. To me, that particular speech sounded like a commander who was ready for anything, and was encouraging his men to fight alonside him against any enemy that may come.
"Fight alongside me. We will fight the whole world, the times, if necessary".
He was talking to his brothers in arms. His comrades. Not his "subordinates", but his fellow soldiers.
Then MGSV comes around, and Big Boss goes "Whoops! I better hide myself and let this other guy absorb all the gunfire! Good luck man! The whole world will be hunting YOU down!"
Just what the fuck happened? Did the Mother Base destruction transform Big Boss into a gigantic coward?
Yes and no. He hides but metal gear 1 and 2 still happen so he's definitely up to something. I doubt he's just sitting on a recliner in his bunker watching MASH or something
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Wait, how does it make sense that SF has to torture Paz to get Zero's location, but when he has it, he mails him a pin and Zero is like "Neat!" instead of "How did you get my address??".
You'll get your answers. Keep playing and avoid this thread!
I know what he's doing. He's building Zanzibar Land.
But what happened with the whole "let's fight together against our enemies"? Big Boss was not the type of character that would use his soldiers like that. Gene was that character. Gene was the type of commander that Big Boss was not, and that's the whole point.
Big Boss in MG2:SS cared about his soldiers He gave them a nation to live and fight willingly.
In MGSV, the same Big Boss not only fools them, but actually leaves them to fight under the command of a decoy, turning them into a gigantic target while he worked in the shadows.
So much bullshit.
minameissteve
Banned
I suppose you can make the argument that Big Boss really did descend into villainy. This is a man who raised nuclear weapons for practically no good reason, screwed up the life of some medic, getting countless innocent people killed in a hospital(seemingly with no regrets or guilt), putting an entire army in that medic's hands despite the likely psychological instabilities from the identity crisis, shrapnel injury, and hypnosis, stealing that man's identity, screwing over his friends and allies, all so he could selfishly hide and raise another army with nuclear weapons. The guy's a psycho.
SkylineRKR
Member
Lookalike could build an impressive army and mother base, despite being seen as BB and being hunted by the whole world.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
MGS3 should have been the snapping point for Big Boss, but I can accept that he split off and did other things in grief.
The realisation of rejection from the Boss in Peace Walker should have been the second breaking point, along with realising the world was against him and it wasn't worth hiding.
The killing of DD soldiers who contracted the parasite should have been NUCLEAR, even if the twist negates this.
It just never happens, there's a moment of sadness and anger, but nothing ever comes of it... Kojima is afraid to let Big Boss become truly evil and I can't understand why. The whole appeal of MGS3 was the fact you were seeing the makings the legendary soldier and why he turned his back on law and order.
The realisation of rejection from the Boss in Peace Walker should have been the second breaking point, along with realising the world was against him and it wasn't worth hiding.
The killing of DD soldiers who contracted the parasite should have been NUCLEAR, even if the twist negates this.
It just never happens, there's a moment of sadness and anger, but nothing ever comes of it... Kojima is afraid to let Big Boss become truly evil and I can't understand why. The whole appeal of MGS3 was the fact you were seeing the makings the legendary soldier and why he turned his back on law and order.
And he dares to wear a jacket with the Diamond Dogs logo on it.
Maybe he was, after the events of the original Metal Gear he might've said to himself "They killed my double? Well might as well come back now"
That's the year Full House ended, maybe he was fed up with TV.
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