Fanboy sandbagging wars are sort of funny in a pathetic way. It leads to things like Shawshank Redemption (a film that barely anyone bothered watching until it was on TV) having twice as many user ratings a Star Wars on IMDB. That community has decided that Shawshank is their Ocarina of Time, and any attempts to dethrone it are met with waves of new 10/10 ratings.
Batman v. Superman RT Thread: like standing ovations in rain
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Fanboy sandbagging wars are sort of funny in a pathetic way. It leads to things like Shawshank Redemption (a film that barely anyone bothered watching until it was on TV) having twice as many user ratings a Star Wars on IMDB. That community has decided that Shawshank is their Ocarina of Time, and any attempts to dethrone it are met with waves of new 10/10 ratings.
I remember watching Superman IV in movie theaters when I was like eight. I remember my child self liking it, or at least not minding it lol.
I'll never remember liking BvS.
Superman IV > BvS
That's just the writer's weekend predictions. Mojo isn't even particularly great with their weekend predictions lately.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Was
she actually in there when it went off?
Lex says to keep his seat, which is empty immediately before it explodes
Lex says to keep his seat, which is empty immediately before it explodes
lol no
She dies in there, yes
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Hey, I have no clue. I found that a crazy idea because Star Wars is Star Wars. Thought the world had gone bonkers..
The critics and movie goers have me at odds. Critics are saying its the worst of all time, but audiences are saying its a relatively decent watch.
Is the backlash this time around even worse than it was for Man of Steel?
Edit: I was actually a fan of MoS, so no hate here. But I swear, if they butcher The Flash standalone..............
Is the backlash this time around even worse than it was for Man of Steel?
Edit: I was actually a fan of MoS, so no hate here. But I swear, if they butcher The Flash standalone..............
Primethius
Banned
I cannot agree with the line of thought that Marvel movies are safe and predictable as a means of propping BvS's "ambitions" up and the movie likewise. It's ambitious in the sense that it completley makes me loathe Supermans character and the first half generally amounts to nothing.
That's just trash movie making.
That's just trash movie making.
I'm pretty angry too.
I'm trying not to get angry at people who are getting defensive about the film too, because I seriously, SERIOUSLY hate this film, and I don't want to see a Justice League movie anymore, not in this universe or by these people, and so many comic fans are telling me "well, it may suck, but we should see it to make Justice League happen", or those that legitimately like it for all the reasons I hate it.
I don't know how to respond to a guy who tells me "Batman kills people and it's awesome! Finally, they got rid of that stupid no-kill code!"
Marvel films are pretty formulaic in their plot beats, but they often take risks with the concepts themselves. Cinematic DC has largely just been the Batman and Superman factory until now. Suicide Squad is their riskiest film in forever, and even with that they are making sure to really highlight the Joker's involvement (when I would be willing to bet his trailer time to screen time ratio is in the Inglorious Basterds Brad Pitt range).
It would be sort of sad if BvS' reception leads to WB backing off the rest of the DCU and doubling down on Batman again (Since he seems to be the film's standout performance in every review). Hopefully Suicide Squad is well received/profitable.
AuthenticM
Member
That aunt May scene made me cry. :'(
My brain was assaulted.
Ok, I am now convinced I will somewhat enjoy this movie because there is no way my expectations can be any lower, after reading through this thread.
For fun, I would like for you guys to gauge how I will find the movie, knowing my general sentiment on the following movies:
-Sucker Punch: one of the worst movies I have ever seen
-Man of Steel: okay
-Iron Man 1: good
-Iron Man 3: fantastic, possibly the best MCU film
-Thor 2: bad
-Avengers 1: okay
-Avengers 2: mediocre
-Amazing Spider-Man 2: good, and better than Raimi's SP1 and 3
FairFriend
Member
Ok, so here I go.
Firstly I'd like to point out that I haven't read many comic books. Obviously I am familiar with the characters, having watched movies like Tim Burton's Batman, Donner's Superman and so on. I've also read some of the most important stories, like The Killing Joke, The Dark Knight Returns, A Death in the Family and so on. But many references were probably lost on me.
Secondly the following text is spoiler free, nonetheless by reading it you will have a more precise idea of the atmosphere of the movie and the motivations of the characters, therefore if you want go in the heater completely blindfolded, do not read it.
With that said the movie is not bad as the reviews make it out to be. Certainly it is not a good movie, nonetheless I found it rather enjoyable.
Basically the are two movies in it: the first one is Batman v Superman, the other one is Dawn of Justice. The first one is a rather good movie, different in tone from many superhero movies, albeit a little bit too violent for my tasters. The second one is kind of a mess and shouldn't be there in the first place. I'll try to explain myself better.
Throughout the first half of the movie we are lead to believe that the whole plot revolves around the upcoming fight between Batman and Superman. I think that the motivations of both the parties are sufficiently credible and well illustrated. Batman sees Superman as a possible threat to mankind, a ticking bomb if you will, and thus wants to eradicate him from existence. On the other hand Superman can't tolerate Batman's methods, as he became more and more ruthless after the events of Man Of Steel (I believe this is made clear by Alfred's speech, which you can also listen to in one of the trailers).
There are instances in this first half when the two superheroes act out of characters, so to say. As it's been said time and again, Batman apparently has no qualm killing people (even if indirectly, or by proxy as Snyder recently said), while Superman more than once appears to be almost inebriated by his power ( for example when
he rescues Lois Lane, smirking before crushing the general against the wall
he tells Batman not to show up again
Honestly I don't have any issue with these depictions of the two characters. I do realize that these are not the Batman and Superman people know, but their actions reflect the world they live in. Superman is still rather inexperienced and, being accused and incriminated left and right, cannot help but feel resentment for the people around him, the same people he keeps saving nonetheless. Batman, after having fought criminals for twenty years, is coming to the realization that his sacrifices and those of his friends (possibly Robin's) were all for naught, now that this unstoppable force has entered the scene. These two points of views are made very clear in the first half of the movie.
In the first half of the movie Snyder does what he's best at doing, namely giving life to comic book panels. There are several scenes taken straight out of The Dark Knight Returns, and those are visually really impressive. Other scenes have the same visual flair and the soundtrack does a good job at making them all the more dramatic and imposing. If you accept Batman's portray, the few action scenes scattered here and there are exciting.
Nonetheless not even this part of the movie, which is markedly the better, is devoid of problems. The first of which is Lex Luthor.
As I noticed I haven't read many comic books, but I've always been under the impression that Lex is a calculating villain, a rational man whose motivations, while not valid, are almost always comprehensible. In other words I've always found him, especially in the animated series incarnation, to be somewhat relatable. In this movie he is a fool, a schizophrenic, egocentric, megalomaniac individual who's incapable of coherently phrasing the reason he wants to kill Superman. The spectator has to go the extra mile to understand why he would do that and honestly I am still not convinced that I get it. Really, whatever Lex does in the movie can't be easily justified without appealing to his insanity.
Generally speaking the screenplay is plagued by easy shortcuts, the most hilarious of which is
placing Gotham and Metropolis side by side for the sake of having Superman sight the Bat Signal
Visually the movie is very appealing, but sometimes I found myself questioning whether the scene was taking place in Gotham or in Metropolis. The two cities definitely lack their own stylistic identity, a far cry from Furst's Gotham, something which I would have not expected from someone like Snyder, who has proved to have a keen eye for this kind of stuff.
In a certain way you could say that the movie is torn between being a direct sequel to Man of Steel and a straight Snyder flick. I believe that Man of Steel was a movie very much under the influence of Nolan. Given its success, I presume that Snyder was given more freedom for this one. The result is that the whole movie doesn't look as grounded as Man Of Steel and, of course, the Nolan trilogy did. It's a strange beast, trying to be as serious as the aforementioned movies, but also as graphic as a comic book straight out of the 90's. This discrepancy invest every aspect of the movie, from its aesthetics to the characterizations of its protagonists, as I have noticed.
In short, to summarize this first part, I'd say that the two greatest problems are: a) a lack of a compelling villain, which is a consequence of the unsatisfying portray of Lex Luthor. b) the direction of Snyder, who doesn't have a personal voice and simply replicate on screen the things he likes the most about the comic books.
Now, on to the second part. Well, honestly I'd rather not dwell too much on it. I think it is really difficult to do that without entering spoiler territory. I will say that it is comparatively short; it's not really half the movie, but rather a third. The problem is that there are few scenes here and there in the first part that set up the second. They kinda spoil what good the first part has to offer since you can see this giant mess coming from miles ahead.
The movie simply throws out of the window the whole conflict around which it is supposedly centred, without actually solving it in any meaningful way, for the sake of panning out the way to Just Another CGI Abomination which, predictably, destroys a good chunk of Metropolis (again!) before Batman has the idea of attracting it somewhere else. And yes, Wonder Woman is in it, but you could erase her from the plot and nothing would be lost in terms of narrative.
As as been said time and again, the second part is so obsessed about setting up this damned Justice League that it completely forgets its main job, which should be to give closure to the conflict presented in the first one.
One last word about the actors' performances. I think the same thing could be said of everyone, Affleck included. They did the best with what they were given, not much in terms of characterization in the first part, absolutely nothing in the second.
The movie is not an abomination. It's Man Of Steel, just with a lot more Snyder.
kitschbeam
Member
I hate BvS Lex Luthor with a passion. Easily the worst thing about this goddamn movie.
It's a movie. It's not that serious.
The Thomas Wayne version of Batman wasn't above killing, so for me it's not a stretch that a new interpretation of Batman can't do the same. Besides it's not like the guy is out there with the specific intent to kill anyone. If it happens accidentally as a result of battle, it's not like Batman is going to sit there and have a mental breakdown. The years have been rough, and Batfleck has adapted to that.
Just my two cents. Not saying it's right and you're wrong, but it's just another take on the matter.
Primethius
Banned
He's awful. Not even remotely intimidating.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Other than bad editing Lex is the only thing I think is legitimately bad-awful with the movie.
Can Crusher
Banned
What the fuck
Lights and Waves
Member
Yeah. I didn't understand why he was trying to be Heath Ledger's Joker. I prefer the sophisticated businessman Lex from the DC cartoons.
friskykillface
Banned
this, a day later and I still hate that dummy being cast as Lex
shortsFortallPeople
Banned
he was working with what they gave him after all. Eisenburg can be and has been good in other roles, i can't put this shit on him.
But before the movie was released that were 120k review on RT from users.....
SO yep... clearly cant trust that...
Druckmann continues to terrorize the DC universe!
lollllllll
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
I love it.
Druckmann continues to terrorize the DC universe!
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Haha! Yeah, I've never understood the Shawshank love.
superdeluxe
Member
Honestly not surprised, I never thought all these bad reviews etc would hurt its opening weekend. What I want to see are the following weekends. How front loaded is this movie? How is the WOM?
That will tell us much more TBH.
But that wide range man. Way to go out on a limb there mojo.
ScreenSplitter
Member
Comparing Shawshank Redemption to this Snyder travesty is, as a non-DC fan, the most upsetting thing in this thread for me. Get a reality check
Imperfected
Member
Well, you're apparently coming in with a great deal of built-in tolerance for a narrative where scenes are stitched together largely without rhyme or reason at the expense of any sense of pacing of cohesion, so that won't be a problem.
You also seem to have some tolerance for... less than absolutely faithful interpretations of the characters, so that shouldn't be an issue.
The fact you didn't like Spider-Man 3 more than ASM2 may mean that you don't have a great deal of tolerance for movies where there are too many major active subplots happening at once, though, which is another problem that BvS grapples with.
Geez, typing this is making me realize BvS is basically a Frankenstein's monster of all the complaints I've ever heard about every bad comic book movie made. It's even got the bog-standard "it felt too long and too busy" problems baked in.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Shawshank Redemption has been brought up somehow? What the fuck is going on in here!?!
ScreenSplitter
Member
Bargaining. Denial.
Pedants proudly stating that 'I found it OKAY guys. I thought it was just OKAY. So there.'
And then somehow equating fans piling on BVS as equivalent with believing one of the most emotional, cathartic cinema experiences of the 20th century is overrated.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Exactly. You'd have to be a nutcase to think that a movie with Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman wasn't going to make a killing on opening weekend. The real question is will people like it enough to spread the "must see" word..
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Comparing Shawshank Redemption to this Snyder travesty is, as a non-DC fan, the most upsetting thing in this thread for me. Get a reality check
By all accounts, they aren't all that different. BvS involves a slow crawl through a river of shit too.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
He seems dejected
PhoncipleBone
Banned
By all accounts, they aren't all that different. BvS involves a slow crawl through a river of shit too.
Except no one comes out clean on the other side in BvS.
We were just talking about fanboy user review sandbag wars. Not comparative movie quality.
shortsFortallPeople
Banned
and WB might not even come out with any money from it, either
PhoncipleBone
Banned
So, in that respect, it will be just like Shawshank?
The Michael Bay of comic book movies.
There really is no difference between the two. They both love destroying shit. They don't know anything else.
Strangelove77
Member
Is someone talking shit about Shawshank now? Is that what we've reduced ourselves to? Cus I won't fucking stand for it. Not up in here!
a critically praised movie which is actually pretty shit and boring, shown as proof that the ratings for movies are extremely inaccurate, and the critics are a joke.
That's what Im getting from those shawhank posts anyways
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Killing me with this Shawshank shit..lol.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
I remember when Return of the King came out the great fanboy wars of half the forum voting 1 for it and half the forum voting 10. Some people would spend all night voting over and over.
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