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[RexNovis]

You don't have to pay to get the gear.
The gear does not have exclusive perks. The title feels misleading.

Where did I say you had to buy the gear? Where did I say they had exclusive perks?
How is "Bungie is now selling armor sets via microtransactions" at all an inaccurate summation of what is described in the op?

The real problem here is that I said something negative about a game you don't like it. So rather than just disagree with my opinion on the matter you and others like you in this thread either start accusing me of being a "Destiny hater" or start spouting a load of crap that I've somehow lied. Everything in the title is accurate. Everything in the op is accurate. If all you have to say on the matter is that you don't think it is as bad as I do fine but calling me a liar when my statements and title are provably true is pathetic.

 

[Lothars]

I'm not surprised at the people overreacting. As long as they have a free way to get it in game than no big deal.

 

[Bear Force One]

Exactly. This is less than nothing with random perks that come on any other piece of gear. Wow.


No different than buying a car before you earn it. If you want to skip the RNG for another RNG go for it.

 

[HMD]

you can already grab dark zone keys with uplay points.....its going to happen eventually

I literally collected more than 30 keys in less than an hour.

 

[Bigboss242]

Just spoon feed micro transactions eventually they will except them-Bungie.

 

[LordofPwn]

It appears in the most recent information on the April update it was revealed that the new Taken Armor sets will be available for purchase via in game store. Basically you can purchase something called a "Sterling Treasure Chest" that has a chance (among various other things) to give you the new taken armor. Now they are changing the way infusion works in order to create a sort of loop hole that could classify this new armor as a cosmetic change. See the description below for details



Source

Can't say I'm a fan of this at all personally but an argument could be made for these being cosmetic only. The monetization still seems kinda sleazy to me.

What are your thoughts?

EDIT: to clarify the gear has its own PVE focused perks which is where this gets sketchy for me and becomes less "cosmetic" Please see below for example

Where did I say you had to buy the gear? Where did I say they had exclusive perks?
How is "Bungie is now selling armor sets via microtransactions" at all an inaccurate summation of what is described in the op?

the bolded are factually inaccurate.

you can not just purchase the armor set, the pieces are in a loot pool for an in-game item. this item can be obtained multiple times a week without paying extra money.

the gear itself does not have its own PVE perks, it has regular armor perks like every other piece of armor in the game.

i'm calling out your inaccuracies. not your opinion.

 

[psPainTrain]

obligatory <goodthingistoppedplayinglongago>-Post

 

[Takuan]

What really matters is how great the PvE perks are on purchased gear. It won't take a whole lot to buy these and infuse them to a usable light level, and if they have god rolls (I suspect not) then I can understand the gripes. If they're "ok" rolls, that's fine.

 

[Trickster]

What do you have to do to earn them ingame? If it's something trivial, I don't care that they also sell them. However, if something like completing a raid or doing something super hard, then fuck that, don't make the rewards of something hard into something that real money spenders can just skip by paying money.

 

[Raven117]

Too many other good games.

Its really this. When Destiny (Vanilla) came out, there was not much really going on and the generation was just getting going. Now, there are really good games out.

IMO, the true brilliance of Destiny was that it didn't have match making for end game activities. As irritating as it is (and it is), it forced people online to message boards and LFG. This created a community that was constantly interacting with each other. Look no further than DGaf here on NeoGaf.

Almost everyone on that thread ran out of stuff to do months ago, but continue to play because they enjoy playing with DGaf and most are online buddies now.

That and simply the shooting is buttery smooth.

 

[RealityPales]

I'll go back to the Division. Thanks though.

 

[E-flux]

I really feel like bungie is walking on a slippery slope, and i don't trust bungie to do it right. I wouldn't be surprised if soon the coolest looking armors would be found on the store.

 

[GhaleonEB]

This is one of those sets of changes that is multi-layered, and on the one hand might be entirely inobtrusive, but on the other is, IMO, decidedly alarming.

What's happening is multi-layered. The basics, as I understand them - please correct me if I got something wrong.

• A new type of shader called chroma, which adds glowing highlights to armor, and for the first time, also to weapons is added to Destiny. They are entirely cosmetic, but also really cool looking.
• A new line of other cosmetics, and Taken gear, are added to the game.
• Sterling Treasure Boxes - loot bags - are added. These are similar to what we've seen in past events, but are now a core part of the game. Everyone gets one for free every week. And then two more per week can be earned from activities (one PvE, one PvP), for a total of three. These same boxes are for sale for real money.
• The light level on the armor in the 3, basically the lowest it can get in the game and still have any value.
• Almost everything in the boxes can be earned outside of them. Almost.

That's the nuts and bolts of it and on its face is not too obtrusive. But the some details really matter:

• The new chroma shader can only be acquired from the boxes, and they are one of many types of items in them, so they are not guaranteed.
• Chroma is a consumable applied to one item at a time, not an item you apply to whatever items you have equipped like a shader. You're going to need a lot of it.
• When changing colors with chroma, you re-roll to a different color, consuming chroma along the way. You don't pick what color you want, you burn the consumable until you get the color you want. This led to a funny moment on the reveal stream yesterday when someone wanted to show a different color on a gun and we hear him clicking over and over and OVER to roll to that color. [At least, this is how I think it works. They kind of glossed it over in the stream.]
• Since players are throttled to three boxes per week, this will be in short supply. Thus, the real money boxes.
• There is no direct way to either earn or purchase chroma. It's all RNG from the boxes.
• For the first time, armor is available for sale outside of a temporary event (they introduced this idea with the racing event). This is presumably softened by them being only light level 3. However...
• The infusion upgrade system is updated to be a 1:1 trade. So you can take a 300 item, infuse it into that leverl 3 armor you just got, and now it's level 300. That puts the lie to the notion that they might as well be cosmetic since they are so low level.

There's a lot in here that bothers me. The introduction of chroma is really cool - it genuinely looks great, and being able to customize guns is awesome. But it's limited to a random grab bag, with a chance to earn it, and it's throttled three per week, or you can buy more chances. And it's a consumable. And you can't pick your color, you burn it until you get the color you want. Without the F2P hooks, it just would have been a shader you apply, with a set color, to the weapons you have equipped. Done.

A lot of work went into getting this F2P hook into the game. So instead of a great new customization option, we now have a really awful, unfriendly series of mechanics to either limit what you can get, or have to spend money for a chance to get it. This is unquestionably intrusive to the game. Because while one box per week is free, and chroma itself is cosmetic, we can also earn them from PvE and PvP activities - and then have to deal with the other aspects of it which are there to encourage real money purchases (consumable, random rolls). This is F2P impacting the loot aspect of the game. That's not good.

You can hand wave this away as saying it's all cosmetic. And that's true. But cosmetic loot has been a big part of the game from day 1 - shaders, ships, emblems, even one set of armor over another with similar perks. So this is very much impacting a core part of the loot game.

It's great that the light level infusion system is now 1:1. It's disappointing that the only reason they did that is to make the Treasure Boxes have more appeal, so the low level armor can become useful instantly.

It's also very supportive of the slippery slope argument many have been making, which has had a lot of us hardcore Destiny fans very worried. The first entry into this space was purely cosmetic (the excellent and fun Festival of the Lost). Every update since then has moved the line, and now we're here. I have no confidence the line is going stay here.

the bolded are factually inaccurate.

you can not just purchase the armor set, the pieces are in a loot pool for an in-game item. this item can be obtained multiple times a week without paying extra money.

the gear itself does not have its own PVE perks, it has regular armor perks like every other piece of armor in the game.

i'm calling out your inaccuracies. not your opinion.

That makes it worse, not better, since you can't even buy them directly, if that's what you are after. They put up this random aspect of it so they can say they're not selling armor directly but...they are still selling armor.

 

[tebunker]

Honestly I wouldn't blame Bungie if everything was on dedicated servers.

That being said everything has a cost, and I've gotten a lot of play out of Destiny for the relatively small sums I've put in. They could have had a subscription fee to help fund further development but they are going this route. Honeslty I would just prefer they go full warframe going forward.

Eitherway as it currently stands it doesn't bother me. I won't spend extra money and reports have made it seem like people arent spending enough to keep up with costs as Bungie expected. Going forward I would prefer they abandon asking for up front money and just go F2P. Unfortunately this is a very real future for gaming and specifically these kind of always on, diablo esque, loot based multiplayer games.

 

[Jito]

Each update keeps upping the level of in game micro transactions. Destiny 2 will launch with a full in game shop for buying armor and guns, most of you will just shrug though.

 

[Arkeband]

Each update keeps upping the level of in game micro transactions. Destiny 2 will launch with a full in game shop for buying armor and guns, most of you will just shrug though.

It'll have its own Diablo 3 Auction house.

 

[Kor of Memory]

You know what it is about this image that tells me this gear is cosmetic only?

It has no stats.

Just like the SRL gear, this gear has no actual stat modifiers on it. No INT, DSC, or STR.

This means it'll never be used competitively, as abilities are super important in this game.

I admit the creep still makes me uncomfortable, but the fact is, this gear (even if it has PvE perks on it) will never be used over actual in-game acquired gear except for fun. Just like the SRL sets.

You can see here that SRL gear was exaclty the same:

It, too, could be infused up to max, had perks, but has zero stats modifiers to it.

The gear will always have a strong natural handicap to it.

 

[equil]

So you'd rather the gear have 0 perks and be completely useless? No one would even want the gear then or even care about getting the gear.
The racing gear had more of an advantage than these so called "PVE perks" that every random piece of gear could have.

I could waste my time and farm legendary marks to buy random legendary engrams and get the same effect of random rolls on gear as the packages. So why would they make these packages any different?

I can see your argument that they "could" be better than someone else's gear but as it is the perks have never been game changing.

 

[Nabbis]

Just let me buy the gear directly and not spend time on the pointless timesinks. Oh wait, there would be nothing to do in the game then.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

You know what it is about this image that tells me this gear is cosmetic only?

It has no stats.

Just like the SRL gear, this gear has no actual stat modifiers on it. No INT, DSC, or STR.

This means it'll never be used competitively, as abilities are super important in this game.

I admit the creep still makes me uncomfortable, but the fact is, this gear (even if it has PvE perks on it) will never be used over actual in-game acquired gear except for fun. Just like the SRL sets.

You can see here that SRL gear was exaclty the same:


It, too, could be infused up to max, had perks, but has zero stats modifiers to it.

The gear will always have a strong natural handicap to it.

They showed on stream that it inherits the stats of the infused item.

After deej infused the piece from the box on stream, it had str/int

 

[~Cross~]

They showed on stream that it inherits the stats of the infused item.

After deej infused the piece from the box on stream, it had str/int

How is this different then from a glamour/transmog system in FFXIV/WoW?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

You know what it is about this image that tells me this gear is cosmetic only?

It has no stats.

Just like the SRL gear, this gear has no actual stat modifiers on it. No INT, DSC, or STR.

This means it'll never be used competitively, as abilities are super important in this game.

I admit the creep still makes me uncomfortable, but the fact is, this gear (even if it has PvE perks on it) will never be used over actual in-game acquired gear except for fun. Just like the SRL sets.

You can see here that SRL gear was exaclty the same:


It, too, could be infused up to max, had perks, but has zero stats modifiers to it.

The gear will always have a strong natural handicap to it.

Double post, but I hate how people have been saying 'oh it's just cosmetic' when it's anything but. It's loot being sold, full-stop.

Before infusion-

Post infusion-

As you can see, it actually gains the stats you said it didn't.

How is this different then from a glamour/transmog system in FFXIV/WoW?

Because in those systems, you layer the armor you want over your current armor. This can be done as many times as you want. I get a new head piece, I can use armor X to cover it. I replace that head piece, I can still use armor X to cover it. For this system, it's actually replacing the item itself instead of superficially covering it. IE I get a new head piece, I need to feed it into armor X and then wear that. If for some reason I want a different taken helmet, I need to feed another piece into it to get it up to level.

It's not buying power. But it is buying loot. In a game where there isn't many things to get, having that carrot on a stick be sold instead of being earned through merit(And no, getting it weekly isn't merit, it's a damn mobile game timer) is sad. It's just sad.

 

[Darth Smurf X]

You can farm the sterling treasure chests infinitely by playing the lower level PoE...
It's for ppl who want it the easy way I guess.

Plus, one every day (or was it weekly?) in the Postmaster FOR FREE and 1 every week through the Crucible. This is a non-issue.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Plus, one every day (or was it weekly?) in the Postmaster FOR FREE and 1 every week through the Crucible. This is a non-issue.

You can only get 3 a week. They misspoke when they said you can get as many chests as you want.

 

[Kor of Memory]

They showed on stream that it inherits the stats of the infused item.

After deej infused the piece from the box on stream, it had str/int

You're right. My apologies. Carry on.

 

[Herp Derpington]

You know what it is about this image that tells me this gear is cosmetic only?

It has no stats.

Just like the SRL gear, this gear has no actual stat modifiers on it. No INT, DSC, or STR.

This means it'll never be used competitively, as abilities are super important in this game.

I admit the creep still makes me uncomfortable, but the fact is, this gear (even if it has PvE perks on it) will never be used over actual in-game acquired gear except for fun. Just like the SRL sets.

You can see here that SRL gear was exaclty the same:


It, too, could be infused up to max, had perks, but has zero stats modifiers to it.

The gear will always have a strong natural handicap to it.

Incorrect. This shows my SRL helmet has Discipline and Strength.

 

[jennetics]

Keep going Bungie, all you're doing is making it more certain that I will skip Destiny 2.

That's coming from a guy that played the first game religiously for over a year.

Same here. Played all the way through HoW and fell off the map when TK was released. I got back on recently to help a co-worker through Vault of Glass and it was super fun but I couldn't help notice the amount of times they tried to get me to upgrade to TK. Kind of annoying (though, I'm sure it's like this for most MMO's) so I've again lost all interest. Not falling for your tricks again, Destiny 2!

 

[Anoregon]

Double post, but I hate how people have been saying 'oh it's just cosmetic' when it's anything but. It's loot being sold, full-stop.

Before infusion-


Post infusion-


As you can see, it actually gains the stats you said it didn't.



Because in those systems, you layer the armor you want over your current armor. This can be done as many times as you want. I get a new head piece, I can use armor X to cover it. I replace that head piece, I can still use armor X to cover it. For this system, it's actually replacing the item itself instead of superficially covering it. IE I get a new head piece, I need to feed it into armor X and then wear that. If for some reason I want a different taken helmet, I need to feed another piece into it to get it up to level.

It's not buying power. But it is buying loot. In a game where there isn't many things to get, having that carrot on a stick be sold instead of being earned through merit(And no, getting it weekly isn't merit, it's a damn mobile game timer) is sad. It's just sad.

Thank you. The whole "It's only Light level 3!" argument immediately struck me as painfully disingenuous due to the pending infusion buff. It may as well be sold at light level 280, because you're still immediately going to infuse a 290+ item into it if you want to use it. Would it not count as "selling gear" If it was sold at 280? The starting light level itself is utterly meaningless unless it's like 310+ due to how infusion works.

 

[kiguel182]

The micro-transactions would be much better if we saw regular content drops instead of one meaningful update 6 months after TTK.

 

[Bastos]

It's just cosmetics. The perks are crap and even if they weren't, it wouldn't change anything unless these armors featured exclusive perks, which is not the case.

And you can also get all this gear by playing the game.

You ppl really like hate on Destiny. And all these knee-jerk reactions to the word "microtransactions" is ridiculous, at least try to understand about the game system before shit posting. Damn.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

It's just cosmetics. The perks are crap and even if they weren't, it wouldn't change anything unless these armors featured exclusive perks, which is not the case.

And you can also get all this gear by playing the game.

You ppl really like hate on Destiny. And all these knee-jerk reactions to the word "microtransactions" is ridiculous, at least try to understand about the game system before shit posting. Damn.

So it's cosmetic when sold, but when earned in game it's actually usable gear?

Because loot is loot in Destiny. This is no different. This isn't SRL gear which has no perks, it's actually usable. Saying 'Its perks suck' doesn't excuse the fact that Bungie is crossing a line by selling usable gear that isn't completely superficial.

If you take anything away from it, it's that Bungie is willing to sell loot. Trying to argue that it's cosmetic when it's not, or that it can be earned in game is disingenuous. The fact is, they are selling loot, and that they are on a slippery slope. That is and should be the grand take away.

When they sold emotes, people thought it would pay for future content drops.
When they sold hats from the first content drop, the Halloween thing, people still thought it would pay for future content drops.
SRL came and went, and they sold sparrows, horns, and armor for use in SRL. People started getting wary.
More emotes came, Crimson Doubles came, and that was underwhelming to say the least. If that was a preview of what's to come for the 'free' updates, personally I didn't want part of it.
And now the 'big' april update is shown to mostly be recycled content, and if we take yesterdays stream to heart, the majority of it will be microtransactions. Yesterdays stream was literally advertising these emotes and sterling box, and spending time on it.

By definition that is a slippery slope. They went from emotes, to selling gear, ships, and weapon skins. This opens up the avenue for them to continue selling things.

Saying 'But you can earn it in game' isn't a valid defense. Not when they limit how much you can get in game on weekly timers. That is some mobile ass f2p shit right there. "Your stamina bar is low, you can't earn anymore loot boxes this week! But if you pay right now, you can get however many you want!".

I can say without a doubt that the limitations to how many boxes you can earn was dictated by the fact that they're also selling these boxes for money. If there was no way to earn the boxes in game, I'm sure the uproar would be tremendous. It's literally locking away content behind a paywall or a weekly timer.

The worst of all, this is a bigger fuck you to Destiny players who have played it since the beginning. Those who stuck through with it since day 1. Many others and myself have spent what...$60 on the base game, $40 on the first two expansions, another $40 for TTK, we've spent atleast $140 on this game and this is the update we get? Destiny has mobile game sensibilities with a AAA price tag on it. And it's fucked up.

 

[Jito]

The micro-transactions would be much better if we saw regular content drops instead of one meaningful update 6 months after TTK.

Yeh all the updates are tied into a new micro transaction system as well. They've yet to release something without ramming a system that allows people to throw money at them.

Where's the actual content updates? Not just new cosmetic shit for Bungie to make money off.

 

[Nephix]

It's just cosmetics. The perks are crap and even if they weren't, it wouldn't change anything unless these armors featured exclusive perks, which is not the case.

And you can also get all this gear by playing the game.

You ppl really like hate on Destiny. And all these knee-jerk reactions to the word "microtransactions" is ridiculous, at least try to understand about the game system before shit posting. Damn.

Regardless of the perks being good or not, it's not a cosmetic item if there's perks on it. Period.

Honestly the thing could have an invincibility perk on it and you'd still defend it by saying "lol it's a low lvl gear, you can just earn it, no probs"

 

[bizzarewars]

I don't know, it doesn't really seem like that big of a deal to me at least. The first and last microtransaction (or MichaeltransJackson lmao) I bought through Destiny was the thriller dance emote for the Halloween event, and I have gotten a lot of mileage out of that let me tell you. Yeah, the gear has PVE perks but most people by now have better gear already plus you'll get plenty of chances to earn those chests without paying for them.

Btw I absolutely love how they're changing the infusion system, it's great.

 

[ThatsMytrunks]

The gear isn't locked behind the microtransaction since you can unlock them in PoE. It's a bummer, but it's not enough to dissuade me from playing.

I still really like Destiny, just waiting for some new playable content to bring me back.

 

[LordofPwn]

This is one of those sets of changes that is multi-layered, and on the one hand might be entirely inobtrusive, but on the other is, IMO, decidedly alarming.

What's happening is multi-layered. The basics, as I understand them - please correct me if I got something wrong.

• A new type of shader called chroma, which adds glowing highlights to armor, and for the first time, also to weapons is added to Destiny. They are entirely cosmetic, but also really cool looking.
• A new line of other cosmetics, and Taken gear, are added to the game.
• Sterling Treasure Boxes - loot bags - are added. These are similar to what we've seen in past events, but are now a core part of the game. Everyone gets one for free every week. And then two more per week can be earned from activities (one PvE, one PvP), for a total of three. These same boxes are for sale for real money.
• The light level on the armor in the 3, basically the lowest it can get in the game and still have any value.
• Almost everything in the boxes can be earned outside of them. Almost.

That's the nuts and bolts of it and on its face is not too obtrusive. But the some details really matter:

• The new chroma shader can only be acquired from the boxes, and they are one of many types of items in them, so they are not guaranteed.
• Chroma is a consumable applied to one item at a time, not an item you apply to whatever items you have equipped like a shader. You're going to need a lot of it.
• When changing colors with chroma, you re-roll to a different color, consuming chroma along the way. You don't pick what color you want, you burn the consumable until you get the color you want. This led to a funny moment on the reveal stream yesterday when someone wanted to show a different color on a gun and we hear him clicking over and over and OVER to roll to that color. [At least, this is how I think it works. They kind of glossed it over in the stream.]
• Since players are throttled to three boxes per week, this will be in short supply. Thus, the real money boxes.
  [*]There is no direct way to either earn or purchase chroma. It's all RNG from the boxes.
• For the first time, armor is available for sale outside of a temporary event (they introduced this idea with the racing event). This is presumably softened by them being only light level 3. However...
• The infusion upgrade system is updated to be a 1:1 trade. So you can take a 300 item, infuse it into that leverl 3 armor you just got, and now it's level 300. That puts the lie to the notion that they might as well be cosmetic since they are so low level.

There's a lot in here that bothers me. The introduction of chroma is really cool - it genuinely looks great, and being able to customize guns is awesome. But it's limited to a random grab bag, with a chance to earn it, and it's throttled three per week, or you can buy more chances. And it's a consumable. And you can't pick your color, you burn it until you get the color you want. Without the F2P hooks, it just would have been a shader you apply, with a set color, to the weapons you have equipped. Done.

A lot of work went into getting this F2P hook into the game. So instead of a great new customization option, we now have a really awful, unfriendly series of mechanics to either limit what you can get, or have to spend money for a chance to get it. This is unquestionably intrusive to the game. Because while one box per week is free, and chroma itself is cosmetic, we can also earn them from PvE and PvP activities - and then have to deal with the other aspects of it which are there to encourage real money purchases (consumable, random rolls). This is F2P impacting the loot aspect of the game. That's not good.

You can hand wave this away as saying it's all cosmetic. And that's true. But cosmetic loot has been a big part of the game from day 1 - shaders, ships, emblems, even one set of armor over another with similar perks. So this is very much impacting a core part of the loot game.

It's great that the light level infusion system is now 1:1. It's disappointing that the only reason they did that is to make the Treasure Boxes have more appeal, so the low level armor can become useful instantly.

It's also very supportive of the slippery slope argument many have been making, which has had a lot of us hardcore Destiny fans very worried. The first entry into this space was purely cosmetic (the excellent and fun Festival of the Lost). Every update since then has moved the line, and now we're here. I have no confidence the line is going stay here.



That makes it worse, not better, since you can't even buy them directly, if that's what you are after. They put up this random aspect of it so they can say they're not selling armor directly but...they are still selling armor.

I was under the impression that dismantling gear that has a chroma enabled gives you a chroma, and that all new gear they are adding comes with a chroma (faction rep packages), they've also upped rep gain across the board so getting these packages will be faster.

And i was just stating facts, if you think that's worse, that's your opinion.

 

[Owari]

In news that should surprise no one, Activision has crummy business practices and their games have microtransactions that negate skill-based gameplay.

 

[sturgboski]

So it's cosmetic when sold, but when earned in game it's actually usable gear?

Because loot is loot in Destiny. This is no different. This isn't SRL gear which has no perks, it's actually usable. Saying 'Its perks suck' doesn't excuse the fact that Bungie is crossing a line by selling usable gear that isn't completely superficial.

If you take anything away from it, it's that Bungie is willing to sell loot. Trying to argue that it's cosmetic when it's not, or that it can be earned in game is disingenuous. The fact is, they are selling loot, and that they are on a slippery slope. That is and should be the grand take away.

When they sold emotes, people thought it would pay for future content drops.
When they sold hats from the first content drop, the Halloween thing, people still thought it would pay for future content drops.
SRL came and went, and they sold sparrows, horns, and armor for use in SRL. People started getting wary.
More emotes came, Crimson Doubles came, and that was underwhelming to say the least. If that was a preview of what's to come for the 'free' updates, personally I didn't want part of it.
And now the 'big' april update is shown to mostly be recycled content, and if we take yesterdays stream to heart, the majority of it will be microtransactions. Yesterdays stream was literally advertising these emotes and sterling box, and spending time on it.

By definition that is a slippery slope. They went from emotes, to selling gear, ships, and weapon skins. This opens up the avenue for them to continue selling things.

Saying 'But you can earn it in game' isn't a valid defense. Not when they limit how much you can get in game on weekly timers. That is some mobile ass f2p shit right there. "Your stamina bar is low, you can't earn anymore loot boxes this week! But if you pay right now, you can get however many you want!".

I can say without a doubt that the limitations to how many boxes you can earn was dictated by the fact that they're also selling these boxes for money. If there was no way to earn the boxes in game, I'm sure the uproar would be tremendous. It's literally locking away content behind a paywall or a weekly timer.

The worst of all, this is a bigger fuck you to Destiny players who have played it since the beginning. Those who stuck through with it since day 1. Many others and myself have spent what...$60 on the base game, $40 on the first two expansions, another $40 for TTK, we've spent atleast $140 on this game and this is the update we get? Destiny has mobile game sensibilities with a AAA price tag on it. And it's fucked up.

Personally I think this was a better approach than what came when Eververse first showed up. The whole sell was that microtransactions would fund new content. My guess is the emotes didn't bring in anywhere close to what they hoped to fund content which is why we got festival of the lost and crimson doubles which didn't add much if at all. SRL and this drop have books into the microtransactions and I'm guessing do better for covering the costs of those content patches. I'm thinking these types of f2p esque microtransactions (can earn rewards but capped OR purchase to exceed cap) to continue going forward. I just hope we get more content to compensate, though I am wary due to the crappy tools (from everything I have read). Sort of like the req packs for Halo.

I do think the chromas only dropping in these boxes and being consumables is scummy. Hopefully chroma are also in the loot table for faction packs as well.

 

[Nephix]

The gear isn't locked behind the microtransaction since you can unlock them in PoE. It's a bummer, but it's not enough to dissuade me from playing.

I still really like Destiny, just waiting for some new playable content to bring me back.

Well it sure isn't making me eager to pick it back up, no matter how much I enjoyed my 100+ hours with it.
Legit confused who these microtransactions are aimed at. Current players probably have better gear and new players will earn better gear soon enough.
Doesn't really do anything for those of us who put the game down because we've been through all the content multiple times either.

I guess they're just adding stuff and gauging reactions to see what level of microtransactions they can safely add to Destiny 2.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Personally I think this was a better approach than what came when Eververse first showed up. The whole sell was that microtransactions would fund new content. My guess is the emotes didn't bring in anywhere close to what they hoped to fund content which is why we got festival of the lost and crimson doubles which didn't add much if at all. SRL and this drop have books into the microtransactions and I'm guessing do better for covering the costs of those content patches. I'm thinking these types of f2p esque microtransactions (can earn rewards but capped OR purchase to exceed cap) to continue going forward. I just hope we get more content to compensate, though I am wary due to the crappy tools (from everything I have read). Sort of like the req packs for Halo.

I do think the chromas only dropping in these boxes and being consumables is scummy. Hopefully chroma are also in the loot table for faction packs as well.

It's confirmed chroma is exclusive to the boxes.

To repost what I just said over in the Destiny OT:

Let's take a scenario where the monetization is not a part of Destiny at all. And Bungie is adding in chroma, the new highlight shader for weapons and armor.

It would probably work much like the current shaders - they show up as drops for activities or in reward packages, via RNG. You might get a blue one, or the white one. You apply it and it works on whatever gun you have equipped, just as armor shaders do. Simple addition to the loot pool and an implementation that is similar to the other shader in the game.

Here's what they are actually doing.

Chroma is exclusive to a grab bag that has it as one of many possible items, and players are throttled to three grab bags per week. After that, they have to buy them. If you get chroma in one, it's not a universal shader, but rather a consumable item applied to one specific weapon. And you don't get to pick your color - you have to re-roll it over and over and hope it lands on the color you want (one of four), consuming chroma along the way.

So if you want to check out how a gun looks with all four colors, you're going to burn a lot of it. If you want to apply it to multiple guns, you're going to burn a lot of it. If you want to change the colors on a full set of armor to fit in with a new shader you got, you're going to burn a shitload of it. So it will take a ton of chroma to really make use of, there's no way to directly earn it, and if you want a chance of getting more you can pay real money.

There's no way to argue the monetization is off to the side of the game now. Yes, it's cosmetic. But cosmetic loot has always been a part of the game - ships, shaders, emblems. If the only way you could get chroma, a shader you apply like a regular shader, was money, I'd actually be fine with it. Buy once, use it like a regular shader, love it. But it's got F2P hooks riddled up and down the implementation and its spilled out of Eververse and into one of the key rewards for the PvP and PvE activities. That's crossing a big, bright line, IMO.

 

[Gurnlei]

This is when MMO players usually jump ship.

This kind of stuff only belongs in F2Ps IMO.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

So much for never selling gear. I mean, I get it. It's a shortcut through the RNG, but so much of what was hoped to come out of the April Update just seems to be having the opposite effect of revitalizing the game in the meanwhile of whatever it is they are working on.

Maybe I'll still jump back in and give it a fair shake, but the next big update will likely be that point if it comes.

 

[ReignofSparrows]

[*]Since players are throttled to three boxes per week, this will be in short supply. Thus, the real money boxes.
[*]There is no direct way to either earn or purchase chroma. It's all RNG from the boxes.

My understanding of it was that you could theoretically grind chroma through faction packages. The new faction armor comes with a chroma node, and I believe dismantling armor with a chroma node available, even if not activated, gives a random chroma in return. I'm operating with imperfect information as we all are, but if that is indeed how it works, chroma wouldn't be in short supply if someone wanted to grind. Even as it currently stands, faction rep can be gained at about 1 rank per hour farming Draksis, and there is also strange coin/mote conversion. Presumably the faction rep changes in April would further reduce that grind.

[*]When changing colors with chroma, you re-roll to a different color, consuming chroma along the way.

I don't believe that's the case based on Deej's inventory during the stream, but it's such a convoluted system, I could be wrong. When Deej cycled through the colors of the helmet on stream, he did not activate the chroma node after the first time, and the reroll node did not list any requirement other than glimmer. The issue I see here is that there didn't appear to be any preview option short of actually using the chroma. That would be pretty awful if true, but the actual reroll system seems to be much more forgiving than you've described.

It's great that the light level infusion system is now 1:1. It's disappointing that the only reason they did that is to make the Treasure Boxes have more appeal, so the low level armor can become useful instantly.

The idea that this would somehow be more palatable if the infusion system remained the same therefore significantly increasing the grind on all fronts, including the grind for the new 3 defense armor is is quite a reach. The infusion change is a significant positive that is now being spun into a negative to prop up a pretty poor argument. If the new legendary armor draws from the standard, bland perk pool, I don't think it's unfair to categorize it as cosmetic, and how fast you get to make that choice (immediately with a piece of high level gear as opposed to incrementally) doesn't really move the needle.

 

[Theorry]

The way they framed the system makes them essentially cosmetic. I'm gonna assume people aren't going to read the op anyway though

This.

 

[Live Free or Die]

It's just cosmetics. The perks are crap and even if they weren't, it wouldn't change anything unless these armors featured exclusive perks, which is not the case.

And you can also get all this gear by playing the game.

You ppl really like hate on Destiny. And all these knee-jerk reactions to the word "microtransactions" is ridiculous, at least try to understand about the game system before shit posting. Damn.

Agreed. The hate Destiny gets on this site is just mind boggling. I don't see what the fuss is all about. There is nothing special about any of those perks. Those perks are on all the armor we have already. No one is forcing you to buy them. If you want to grind for them you can. No one is taking that away from you. The more choices the better.

Deej did say if you dismantle a piece of gear that has chroma, you will get a random chroma after you dismantle it.

 

[Darth Smurf X]

Regardless of the perks being good or not, it's not a cosmetic item if there's perks on it. Period.

Honestly the thing could have an invincibility perk on it and you'd still defend it by saying "lol it's a low lvl gear, you can just earn it, no probs"

Why am I in this topic? I guess I'm bored, so... here we go.

You still have to grind out the gear to infuse into these items. I barely have any gear over level 300. So even if I get the gear I want from these packages, I still have to play many, many strikes/raids/etc in order to get that gear above what I currently have. And that's only IF the perks on that gear are better than the things I've been using for months.

You can buy the gear, sure. But it's cometic junk until you have spent time finding a piece of gear with WORSE perks, but high light. And if you infuse a piece of gear with BETTER perks and high light, then you have just created a high light cosmetic item. Because you had a better option, but scrapped it for something that looked cool.

Yeah, yeah, slippery slope. I do agree with that part of these arguments. But, to be honest, I'll probably be onto a different game by the time pay-to-win happens to Destiny. As it is now, I barely play, but plan to dive back into it since the infusion has been fixed.

 

[Movalpolos]

It actually seems strange to me that they would release this sort of microtransaction in the midst of a content drought with the game. I mean wouldn't it make more sense (business-wise) to do this after the next major expansion when there is a healthier playerbase?

It's not really doing them any favors, with many former dedicated players seeing stuff like this, without any incentive to go back to the game right now.

 

[RexNovis]

Updated the OP with Ghaleon's breakdown:

This is one of those sets of changes that is multi-layered, and on the one hand might be entirely inobtrusive, but on the other is, IMO, decidedly alarming.

What's happening is multi-layered. The basics, as I understand them - please correct me if I got something wrong.

• A new type of shader called chroma, which adds glowing highlights to armor, and for the first time, also to weapons is added to Destiny. They are entirely cosmetic, but also really cool looking.
• A new line of other cosmetics, and Taken gear, are added to the game.
• Sterling Treasure Boxes - loot bags - are added. These are similar to what we've seen in past events, but are now a core part of the game. Everyone gets one for free every week. And then two more per week can be earned from activities (one PvE, one PvP), for a total of three. These same boxes are for sale for real money.
• The light level on the armor in the 3, basically the lowest it can get in the game and still have any value.
• Almost everything in the boxes can be earned outside of them. Almost.

That's the nuts and bolts of it and on its face is not too obtrusive. But the some details really matter:

• The new chroma shader can only be acquired from the boxes, and they are one of many types of items in them, so they are not guaranteed.
• Chroma is a consumable applied to one item at a time, not an item you apply to whatever items you have equipped like a shader. You're going to need a lot of it.
• When changing colors with chroma, you re-roll to a different color, consuming chroma along the way. You don't pick what color you want, you burn the consumable until you get the color you want. This led to a funny moment on the reveal stream yesterday when someone wanted to show a different color on a gun and we hear him clicking over and over and OVER to roll to that color. [At least, this is how I think it works. They kind of glossed it over in the stream.]
• Since players are throttled to three boxes per week, this will be in short supply. Thus, the real money boxes.
• There is no direct way to either earn or purchase chroma. It's all RNG from the boxes.
• For the first time, armor is available for sale outside of a temporary event (they introduced this idea with the racing event). This is presumably softened by them being only light level 3. However...
• The infusion upgrade system is updated to be a 1:1 trade. So you can take a 300 item, infuse it into that leverl 3 armor you just got, and now it's level 300. That puts the lie to the notion that they might as well be cosmetic since they are so low level.

There's a lot in here that bothers me. The introduction of chroma is really cool - it genuinely looks great, and being able to customize guns is awesome. But it's limited to a random grab bag, with a chance to earn it, and it's throttled three per week, or you can buy more chances. And it's a consumable. And you can't pick your color, you burn it until you get the color you want. Without the F2P hooks, it just would have been a shader you apply, with a set color, to the weapons you have equipped. Done.

A lot of work went into getting this F2P hook into the game. So instead of a great new customization option, we now have a really awful, unfriendly series of mechanics to either limit what you can get, or have to spend money for a chance to get it. This is unquestionably intrusive to the game. Because while one box per week is free, and chroma itself is cosmetic, we can also earn them from PvE and PvP activities - and then have to deal with the other aspects of it which are there to encourage real money purchases (consumable, random rolls). This is F2P impacting the loot aspect of the game. That's not good.

You can hand wave this away as saying it's all cosmetic. And that's true. But cosmetic loot has been a big part of the game from day 1 - shaders, ships, emblems, even one set of armor over another with similar perks. So this is very much impacting a core part of the loot game.

It's great that the light level infusion system is now 1:1. It's disappointing that the only reason they did that is to make the Treasure Boxes have more appeal, so the low level armor can become useful instantly.

It's also very supportive of the slippery slope argument many have been making, which has had a lot of us hardcore Destiny fans very worried. The first entry into this space was purely cosmetic (the excellent and fun Festival of the Lost). Every update since then has moved the line, and now we're here. I have no confidence the line is going stay here.

That makes it worse, not better, since you can't even buy them directly, if that's what you are after. They put up this random aspect of it so they can say they're not selling armor directly but...they are still selling armor.

Excellent breakdown of the new microtransactions. Thank you for this. Lots of stuff I wasn't aware of about the chroma implementation.

the bolded are factually inaccurate.

you can not just purchase the armor set, the pieces are in a loot pool for an in-game item.

You pay money and can receive said armor for that money. You are being purposefully obtuse. The fact that they introduce randomness to the purchase does not change the fact that people can pay money and receive armor from a new armor set.

this item can be obtained multiple times a week without paying extra money.

Nowhere did I say that you HAD to pay money to buy the set. Getting the item free multiple times a week has nothing to do with the fact that they are selling the item for cash and that the item contains new pieces of armor from a new armor set.

the gear itself does not have its own PVE perks, it has regular armor perks like every other piece of armor in the game.

It has perks. I never said or implied it had unique perks. The lack of unique perks has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

i'm calling out your inaccuracies. not your opinion.

No you are calling out the fact that I didnt say things that arent happening which is fucking absurd. The fact that I didnt include information that you want me to does not make my statements inaccurate no matter how many times you say it does.

 

[Deku Tree]

Bungie has already massively crossed the line IMHO. They are doubling down on the MT approach. In year 2 we got horrible content and lots of Microtransactions.

I care about the future of this game, but the current direction of the game is not something that I can support.

So I got 1486h of fun out of this game and now I'm gonna put my money where my mouth is and not play anymore. Hopefully other people do the same because if they don't then the game is going to keep going further and further down the road to being a paid full price game with all the F2P mobile garbage time gated psychological triggers custom designed using all the latest science to be predatory and to motivate people to spend lots of extra money.

I want to buy a game and play it, I don't want to be a part of all of this F2P garbage in my full priced games.

 

[LordofPwn]

Updated the OP with Ghaleon's breakdown:

His breakdown isn't completely accurate. If you watch the stream Bungie clearly says that you can get chroma by breaking down chroma enabled gear, gear you get from faction rank up packages for instance that don't cost money.

It appears around the 20min mark on the youtube upload of the stream.

I'm on mobile right now and can update this with a link later.

And to your other points saying something "has its own perks" implies unique/exclusive. Vague phrasing doesn't help discussion and a more accurate statement would be that the armor pieces have regular armor perks.

I agree with Ghaleon in that it would be better to just sell the full set so that people that want it can just have it. The difference between these armor pieces and other destiny armor pieces is literally just it's looks though. I think it would be better for destiny to have a Transmog system and just sell skins for armor, because it would achieve the same thing but would have less stigma attached.

You don't like micro transactions in destiny, is what I'm gathering, and that's fine. It's your opinion.
I'm letting you know that microtransactions haven't hindered or put me at a disadvantage in the over 1500 hours I've put into the game and this new stuff doesn't change that at all.

So my question is, if this stuff can be obtained for free, does not have exclusive anything, does not make the game easier or put a player without it at a disadvantage, what is there to be upset or dislike about this specifically other than the fact that you can spend money on stuff inside of destiny?

I fully understand why people don't like that there are microtransactions inside of destiny and that's been in-game for months now. I even understand being concerned about them crossing over into pay-to-win type stuff. But there is nothing that has been announced that moves the line any closer to pay-to-win.