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[Imtjnotu]

ill go out and give my predictions

8 core Ryzen 2nd gen CPU

15TF Navi GPU. cant calculate until i know the SIMD number or if navi uses any difference in the ALU's

24gb of system ram. not sure if they go with HBM2 or GDDR6 as both are expensive at the moment.

4GB of LPDDR4 for the system tasks and OS

UHD Drive

1TB of storage

 

[Louis Cyphre]

ill go out and give my predictions

8 core Ryzen 2nd gen CPU

15TF Navi GPU. cant calculate until i know the SIMD number or if navi uses any difference in the ALU's

24gb of system ram. not sure if they go with HBM2 or GDDR6 as both are expensive at the moment.

4GB of LPDDR4 for the system tasks and OS

UHD Drive

1TB of storage

24 GB of ram will set you back $300, that GPU is likely at least $300 as well. The CPU is going for $300. Cool, now let's see how many buildings Sony sells off next generation to counter all those losses to each PS5 sold.

 

[DeepEnigma]

24 GB of ram will set you back $300, that GPU is likely at least $300 as well. The CPU is going for $300. Cool, now let's see how many buildings Sony sells off next generation to counter all those losses to each PS5 sold.

Retail pricing maybe. Sony will not pay retail and would have contracts in place for bulk and future purchase order investments. Not to mention they are working with AMD on the custom SOC, so I am sure there are engineering R&D discounts.

GDDR5x is still not out of the question I would think, and is getting similar bandwidth yields as GDDR6 and HBM.

 

[Darius87]

24 GB of ram will set you back $300, that GPU is likely at least $300 as well. The CPU is going for $300. Cool, now let's see how many buildings Sony sells off next generation to counter all those losses to each PS5 sold.

It's a SoC so price will be one and ordering millions of SoC will reduce price, also 7nm reduce price even more because chip should be smaller in size also sony are partnering with AMD making Navi Gpus for them that's helps also, it will cost far less then consumer prices.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

So...Are there any insiders here heard any tidbits about next-gen? PS5 codename or specs for PS5/ Scarlet. Something....

 

[Imtjnotu]

24 GB of ram will set you back $300, that GPU is likely at least $300 as well. The CPU is going for $300. Cool, now let's see how many buildings Sony sells off next generation to counter all those losses to each PS5 sold.

I don't think you know how bulk ordering and direct order pricing goes.... But continue with your system wars fanboy talk

 

[Louis Cyphre]

I don't think you know how bulk ordering and direct order pricing goes.... But continue with your system wars fanboy talk

The PS4 Pro was a bit of an upgrade from the regular PS4 and it cost the same $400 and came out 3 years later. Are you trying to suggest we are going to have a much bigger jump in ram, a much more powerful GPU and and much better CPU in 3-4 years from the Pro to the PS5 and still be $400?

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Pricing depends entirely on how much the next Xbox costs.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

The PS4 Pro was a bit of an upgrade from the regular PS4 and it cost the same $400 and came out 3 years later. Are you trying to suggest we are going to have a much bigger jump in ram, a much more powerful GPU and and much better CPU in 3-4 years from the Pro to the PS5 and still be $400?

I'd imagine Sony are making a pretty sweet profit from Pro which they can cut or even do a small loss for PS5.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

ill go out and give my predictions

8 core Ryzen 2nd gen CPU

15TF Navi GPU. cant calculate until i know the SIMD number or if navi uses any difference in the ALU's

24gb of system ram. not sure if they go with HBM2 or GDDR6 as both are expensive at the moment.

4GB of LPDDR4 for the system tasks and OS

UHD Drive

1TB of storage

24GB of RAM is overkill for most PCs. I doubt the new consoles will need that much. 16GB is what I'm thinking; 4GB for operating system and 12GB for games.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

Pricing depends entirely on how much the next Xbox costs.

Most people seem to believe the PS5 will release before Next Xbox. If true, how will Sony set price of their console if the competition comes after?

 

[Imtjnotu]

24GB of RAM is overkill for most PCs. I doubt the new consoles will need that much. 16GB is what I'm thinking; 4GB for operating system and 12GB for games.

We're talking in terms of now tho. Consoles have to look ahead. Not in the now

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

They'll base it off the X

500 bucks

pft

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

My spec guess hasn't changed since last year.

10-12TF Navi plus secret sauce (e.g. RT)
8 core Zen/Zen2 mobile spec
16GB GDDR6 (probably 14gbps rather than 16gbps)
448GB/s bandwidth, 256 bit bus (RTX 2080 has just 8GB so a 12/4 or 13/3GB split for PS5 would be fine IMO)
1TB standard, 2TB option

Anything above this is a bonus for me.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I'd imagine Sony are making a pretty sweet profit from Pro which they can cut or even do a small loss for PS5.

They're also in a position now with their online services revenue where they can take a slight loss on hardware if they go that route, and have it made up for very quickly.

7nm is also going to cut major costs down in comparison to the current 16nm, for not only the PS5, but the PS4 family as well.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

They're also in a position now with their online services revenue where they can take a slight loss on hardware if they go that route, and have it made up for very quickly.

7nm is also going to cut major costs down in comparison to the current 16nm, for not only the PS5, but the PS4 family as well.

True about their online services. The income from these alone has paid for PS5 R&D!

I do have worries about the node design costs if true:

This could put paid to any shrinks for PS4/Pro/1X I think.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

We're talking in terms of now tho. Consoles have to look ahead. Not in the now

In 2013 most gaming dedicated PCs made due with 8-12GB of RAM, and both the PS4 and Xbox One launched with 8GB of RAM. Today in 2018, 16GB of RAM seems to be the standard for PC gaming. The next-gen consoles are currently in the prototype stages and I doubt they will have more RAM than even modern hardcore PC rigs have at their disposal.

 

[Airbus Jr]

The question is does PS5 will be good enough to handle ray tracing?

How will it perform against the new RTX?

 

[Salty Popsicle]

The question is does PS5 will be good enough to handle ray tracing?

How will it perform against the new RTX?

The PS5 and next Xbox will not be able to handle ray-tracing. If the $1200 GTX2080 can barely do RTX at 1080p resolution, then a $500 console releasing within 2 years definitely won't be able to.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

The question is does PS5 will be good enough to handle ray tracing?

How will it perform against the new RTX?

I have been giving this RT talk some thought the last few days and can't see how RT won't be in PS5/Scarlet.
We know Nvidia and devs have been (under NDA) working on RT for a long time and also know Mark Cerny visits dozens of these same devs
asking what features they would like in the next console....

I'd also imagine AMD knows full well that Nvidia working toward heavy emphasis on RT so should be working on their own solution with Navi. The silence around Navi must be Sony/console related!

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

The question is does PS5 will be good enough to handle ray tracing?

lol no

 

[bitbydeath]

The question is does PS5 will be good enough to handle ray tracing?

How will it perform against the new RTX?

Super Rub’A’Dub 2 RayTracing Edition.

Believe.

 

[DeepEnigma]

lol no

I would not be too worried either way, since there are less expensive ways of simulating RT right now, and they would have the power to at least do that. RT is still in it's infancy, and even with accelerated tech, it is expensive on not only the hardware end, but the development end as well.

 

[Type_Raver]

Real talk, ray-tracing is a pipe dream for the upcoming consoles. If ray-tracing is supported, it will be for the "Pro" and "X" versions of the next-gen machines.

I think based on what we know, it would seem to be less likely than probable. Thats the smart and conservative position.
However we have only had Nvidia show their hand in this tech, and demos of it so far show full resolution RT (ray traced) reflections, as seen in BFV.
So its possible that we could see half-res RT at a lower performance cost, improved noise reduction and other culling optimisations by the time tech is in its final stage.

Other advancements that I'd like to see are improved physics, collision detection, animations and AI.

Simply more of the same will become stale quick.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Ps9 will have ray tracing right before the bombs hit I'm sure.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Ps9 will have ray tracing right before the bombs hit I'm sure.

More like Brain Tracing!

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

More like Brain Tracing!

They should sue those polish chaps at Red

 

[30yearsofhurt]

24GB of RAM is overkill for most PCs. I doubt the new consoles will need that much. 16GB is what I'm thinking; 4GB for operating system and 12GB for games.

I think it'll be something like 16 to 20 but the RAM here isn't just system memory, it's GPU memory as well. It's quite common to have 16GB system and 8GB GPU RAM on PCs nowadays.

 

[Killer751]

So is the PS4 on the way out or what?

 

[onQ123]

So is the PS4 on the way out or what?

In 2 months it will be 5 years old so it's time for a new gen really the masses isn't really dying for a new generation of consoles yet so PS5 is going to have to do something special to really have a impact

 

[bitbydeath]

In 2 months it will be 5 years old so it's time for a new gen really the masses isn't really dying for a new generation of consoles yet so PS5 is going to have to do something special to really have a impact

Yep, which could be a reason to push it back to 2020 by driving demand through a quiet year.

 

[llien]

The PS4 Pro was a bit of an upgrade from the regular PS4

It more than doubled GPU power of PS4 (2.3 times more flops) and increased CPU power by 30%, so, not ab it?

There is nothing unrealistic in expecting PS5 to be 2-3 times faster than PS4 Pro.

 

[SonGoku]

No you're wrong do the math:
PS3-0.4Tflop PS4-1.84Tflop That's 4.6x increase
1.84*4.6=8.46Tflop that's threshold anything above that would be better jump then PS3<PS4, it's clearly that PS5 will be bigger jump then PS3 to PS4. 13tf would be 7.06x increase, 16gb to 20gb of ram is what it will have.

You are mixing cell flops. The RSX is 192 GFLOPS and Xenos 240GFLOPS

 

[SonGoku]

24GB of RAM is overkill for most PCs. I doubt the new consoles will need that much. 16GB is what I'm thinking; 4GB for operating system and 12GB for games.

People think this much ram is overkill and insane near the star of every new gen, but PC only uses X amount! All you will ever need is 128kb!
New gen, new games, new engines, new techniques a new gen brings a paradigm shift

 

[John Peter]

PS5 will be a monster!

 

[onQ123]

PS5 will be a monster!

Nope! more like a Unicorn

 

[LordOfChaos]

Guys, frames per tflops measurement is as meaningful as GHZ was as measurement of CPU speed, back in P4 Prescott vs Athlon 64 times.
You need to realize that "perf per square mm of silicon" is the only valid metric, together with, perhaps, power consumption.

AMD crams more shaders into the same silicon area, if they would "perform the same" AMD would wipe the floor with nVidia cards.
It is also misconception that AMD's shaders "do less", as "flops" is a quite strict measurement of the number of floating point operations card can perform.
But graphic cards are more than shaders, and that "other stuff" normally has no "flops" like simple figure assigned to it.

If AMD doubles or tripples PS4 performance, it is all that matters, which number of tflops it will have with that, is minor details with no gaming performance impact.

Eh. I get what you're getting at, but when responding to how much increased work per gflop one can expect given set paper Gflop expectations for the PS5, work done per Gflop is an entirely meaningful metric.

I wasn't saying one design philosophy is better or worse, I've said they're just different ways of doing things many times. We're comparing AMD to AMD here, and I just said I don't expect the design philosophy to change so drastically that work/Gflop shifts to Nvidia-like metrics.

In your example it would be like saying "if we can guess Prescott's successor runs at 3GHz, how much higher instructions per clock are we also expecting?" - and then such discussion isn't in ignorance of the fact that GHz or Gflops aren't performance - they're entirely cognizant of it.

 

[mckmas8808]

Is this enough for a nxt gen leap?

Yes it is. A PS5 with 12 TFs of power and 24 GBs of RAM is more than enough.

Might try and hold out for the PS5 Pro then if that happens. I didn't buy my PS4 until 2 years in anyways.

No way you hold out. Once you see what games made for a console with 16-20 GBs of video"game" RAM can do, no way you hold out for another 3 years after that.

 

[bhunachicken]

(some crap, made up maths here)

16GB RAM minus 4GB for the OS leaves us with 12GB. Dev allocating 8GB to the GPU would leave 4GB for the game.

4GB just for the game is actually quite a lot at the end of the day. But maybe they'd do an even 50/50 split for 6GB each.

When you think about what they've done in with a PS4 with ~5GB (the OS takes up about 3GB..?) split between the game and the GPU, it's rather amazing. Look at God of War, Spider-Man, and Zero Dawn, and consider those games might be running with 2.5GB RAM each on the CPU and GPU ... Gosh.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

(some crap, made up maths here)

16GB RAM minus 4GB for the OS leaves us with 12GB. Dev allocating 8GB to the GPU would leave 4GB for the game.

4GB just for the game is actually quite a lot at the end of the day. But maybe they'd do an even 50/50 split for 6GB each.

When you think about what they've done in with a PS4 with ~5GB (the OS takes up about 3GB..?) split between the game and the GPU, it's rather amazing. Look at God of War, Spider-Man, and Zero Dawn, and consider those games might be running with 2.5GB RAM each on the CPU and GPU ... Gosh.

Just for reference Killzone: SF RAM split was:

1.5GB-System- CPU
3GB-Video- GPU
128MB Shared CPU+GPU

I would love to know the figures for more recent games.

 

[SonGoku]

Guys, frames per tflops measurement is as meaningful as GHZ was as measurement of CPU speed, back in P4 Prescott vs Athlon 64 times.
You need to realize that "perf per square mm of silicon" is the only valid metric, together with, perhaps, power consumption.

What he meant is that he hopes PS5 GPU ends up being the equivalent performance wise of a modern 10tf pascal/touring card, since a lot of people are guesstimating 10tf. Because if its equivalent to the performance you get from a current 10tf amd card is gonna be weak for a next gen jump

Tflops alone don't tell the whole story, but once you have parameters set for comparison it helps you pinpoint the performance target barring any extra optimizations you get on a console

 

[Frank Spencer]

Yes! Maybe we'll see a bigger jump than PS3 to PS4. But the problem in this case is something called 4k resolution that consumes a lot of hardware resources. So I don't think we'll see a big diference in terms of graphics. Maybe something related to 4k 60fps in 60% or 70% of the games. Just some kind of special triple A would be made to run at 4k 30fps because of the advanced graphics. But anyways... We should be proud of what we can play in termos of games and graphics today. We don't need more than this. We just need to hit native 4k and 60fps.

Yes it is. A PS5 with 12 TFs of power and 24 GBs of RAM is more than enough.



No way you hold out. Once you see what games made for a console with 16-20 GBs of video"game" RAM can do, no way you hold out for another 3 years after that.

Only GTA next could possibly tempt me. As I said I got my PS4 late 2015. Pretty confident I can hold out.

 

[llien]

What he meant is that he hopes PS5 GPU ends up being the equivalent performance wise of a modern 10tf pascal/touring card, since a lot of people are guesstimating 10tf. Because if its equivalent to the performance you get from a current 10tf amd card is gonna be weak for a next gen jump

I see, that's basically wishing an even faster GPU.

 

[Ar¢tos]

I just hope they go for BD-XL discs, games are already 60-80GB, keeping the 50GB limit would be ridiculous (and it would force everybody to download 20-30GB of "patches").
They will obviously use a UHD BD drive, but there is no guarantee that it will be used for more than 4k bluray movies, after all they kept Vita game cards limited to 4GB when there were games much bigger that forced everyone to download the rest, like Borderlands (even though they promised 8GB game cards when the Vita was released, but never went past 4GB).

 

[UnwrittenZero]

Next gen games will prob be 100 gigs plus. Look at Xbox one x game sizes with 4K textures.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Next gen games will prob be 100 gigs plus. Look at Xbox one x game sizes with 4K textures.

4 layer BD-XL discs hold 128GB, so it should be enough. How much the discs cost to produce vs regular 2x layer blurays might be the deciding factor.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Just for reference Killzone: SF RAM split was:

1.5GB-System- CPU
3GB-Video- GPU
128MB Shared CPU+GPU

I would love to know the figures for more recent games.

Wasn't SF also made when everyone assumed the PS4 would have 4GB, thus those totals just budging past 4GB in the end?

 

[Darius87]

Wasn't SF also made when everyone assumed the PS4 would have 4GB, thus those totals just budging past 4GB in the end?

Probably it was lauch titlle afterall, i still think 16gb will be more then enough.

 

[mckmas8808]

4 layer BD-XL discs hold 128GB, so it should be enough. How much the discs cost to produce vs regular 2x layer blurays might be the deciding factor.

I hope so! I'd hate for Sony to force devs to make games with only 50 GBs in mind. Imagine a dev having 100 GBs to worth with at the beginning when they are designing a game. Those games can fundamentally be made differently than if they had to keep a 50 GB disc in mind.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Wasn't SF also made when everyone assumed the PS4 would have 4GB, thus those totals just budging past 4GB in the end?

IMO it means 8GB was known/decided by Sony well over a year in advance and they just rode the PR! Chipworks even did a die shot of the RAM chips and they are stamped 2012 just like the APU and there was no "last minute" talk about that.

Was the confirmation of RAM amount later than the norm for console development? May well have been. Did it mean an actual nail biting will it/won't it? No, IMO.