BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Nintendo doesn't make games with 300M - 400M budgets.
Sony CFO Hiroki Totoki says PlayStation is reforming currently their gaming business
- Thread starter AW_CL
- Start date
Nintendo doesn't make games with 300M - 400M budgets.
nial
Member
Overbudgeting within Sony's first-party projects was criticism in itself, but ok? It seems like you're still butthurt you got proved wrong the other day.
Whatever you say, sausage boy.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
see? unable to follow the conversation
nial
Member
Do you want to keep the talk going or...? I was under the impression you were already done.
nial
Member
ChorizoPicozo
Meaningless, but if you're still resorting to not actually discussing, I'm wasting my time.Hypereides
Member
Over what exactly?
In recent a thread you went after Heimdall being critical of Hulst and pushed for a tag change. Maybe someone could grace you with an apt tag like "Hermen Hulst's personal fluffer" to even things out. That way you'll compliment one another like ying and yang.
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This is just utter nonsense. The biggest sales for exclusives come in the first 3 months at original price. After that it's downhill from there. Releasing games on PC after it's been on consoles only enhances sales regardless of the numbers it's additional revenue.
At the end I of the day Sony is a business they see more revenue they could give a fuck about Stan behaviour. There's still 65 million PlayStation users still buying games and now Pro users.
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nial
Member
Calling someone 'ungrateful' is not criticism, LMAO. It's weird and reeks of strange obsession.
I didn't? If anything, I told him that he shouldn't be wanting to be known as the obsessive Hulst guy as people previously laughed at his weird hatred for Jim Ryan.
A funny mod did that by himself.
This nigga.
LordOcidax
Member
Agree with you with the SP games, but games like Astrobot is not what PS users want. Just give more games like Uncharted, God of War, Last Of Us, Gran Turismo etc etc etc… Sony fanbase sees games like AB childish.
Killjoy-NL
Banned
Which would primarily be live service.
REDRZA MWS
Member
Agree whole heartedly about the nonsense DEI and insanity that is San Francisco. But Sony is in the business of making money and if selling their games on PC makes them profit, who cares?
Not everyone wants anything to do with a PC, then there are those who are enthusiasts and build PC's. There is a market there for So y and I believe they do it right by making said games PS exclusives for at least a year. After that? Why not make money?
Aguero9320
Member
I think it's clear that certainly Microsoft and Sony would both like to be releasing their games more widely now, with the only thing really holding them back being the backlash... But they really know that the people complaining will still buy their games, so they're just easing us into it.
Bring it on, I say. Get on with it. Everyone should release everything everywhere all at once, and let the players choose where to play. Nintendo will follow too. They'll make way more money, grow the marketplace significantly and everyone wins, except the people whose sense of self worth comes disproportionately from their choice of which console to support.
Bring it on, I say. Get on with it. Everyone should release everything everywhere all at once, and let the players choose where to play. Nintendo will follow too. They'll make way more money, grow the marketplace significantly and everyone wins, except the people whose sense of self worth comes disproportionately from their choice of which console to support.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Kvally
Member
And single player.
iamvin22
Industry Verified
I've been saying this. Curb the pc initiative and refocus on towards your platform. That's where they lost their lead towards providing high quality content. Chasing mobile/ pc trends shouldn't be their.main focus.
Also stop allowing outside companies to bully you into doing things. Lego, MLB and SBi fvck them.
KungFucius
King Snowflake
Why should they not sell games to PC gamers? Because it hurts you to see people without a PlayStation playing them?
And FFS what is with DEI whining? It comes up constantly.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Seems like that PC exclusivity window is going to shrink after Feb.
This is amazing news.
This is amazing news.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
In other words, GAAS and wokey people cuts coming.
Not sure what Portfolio Concept means. Maybe it's clumping certain franchises into Action, Shooter, Sports/Racing etc... They already know what is SP and GAAS classifications are as per those old 2022 business slides.
Not sure what Portfolio Concept means. Maybe it's clumping certain franchises into Action, Shooter, Sports/Racing etc... They already know what is SP and GAAS classifications are as per those old 2022 business slides.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Pretty much. The key reasons why gamers dont want PC:
1. It'll kill the ecosystem as PS gamers all go buy a PC rig and game there
2. Even if it doesn't hurt the PS brand, they dont want PC gamers playing their exclusive games. They care that much a random PC gamer half way around the world enjoys playing the same game
3. Despite #2 above, GAAS are ok day on PC though. lol
ChorizoPicozo
Member
classic strategy of someone who is unable to follow the conversation.
i will try one more time:
Sony's rate of success with their single player games has been insane...what does that tell you?
That they are pretty good at making this types of games.
What is sony's rate of success with GaaS.... fucking abismal.
the amount of budget only matters by the amount of revenue/profits you are able to generate.
would it be nice to make more profit by reducing the budget? Of course. But you're not going to magically slice $100M off the budget.
this why i gave you the Spider-Man example.
meaning: Their single player blockbusters games are going to still cost between 150-250M. Cost reduction will be around 10-30M at best.
Sony has spent closer to 5B on the GaaS initiative... and completely failed. CONSEQUENCES .
thus:
Killjoy-NL
Banned
Helldivers 2 sold 12M copies.
Astro Bot sold 1.5M copies.
Stellar Blade sold 1+M copies.
Rise of the Ronin sold ~1M copies?
Apparently, Wukong made up for a large part of Concord, so that's a non-argument.
Edit:
Concord is definitely a factor in this restructure.
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Tomofdahook17
Member
God please go back to having primary console exclusives that release on PC a year or two later, and shut down the GAAS shit. First Party single player and multiplayer shooter need to make a comeback especially.
HogIsland
Banned
Get rid of PC ports, and you can kiss current-gen game budgets from Playstation goodbye.
HogIsland
Banned
Dirk Benedict
Gold Member
They can start by polling users or anyone that has an account, on what we would like to see come out of PlayStation.
Hopefully the cost cutting means they are going to drain the DEI sludge from the company. I'd be happy if they switched HQ back to Japan, but if they ditch DEI, I'll take what I can get.
More games going Multi, I will wager. If they were smart they'd have Demon's Remake being prepared for PC. I want to play it.
Hopefully the cost cutting means they are going to drain the DEI sludge from the company. I'd be happy if they switched HQ back to Japan, but if they ditch DEI, I'll take what I can get.
More games going Multi, I will wager. If they were smart they'd have Demon's Remake being prepared for PC. I want to play it.
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This. Sony isn't in the position of Nintendo where everything is cheap. The more revenue Sony makes the better the budgets and more games you get. A lot of folks on here would have destroyed the brand if they were in charge because of brand loyalty and keeping exclusives on console. Sony has showed how they took an L doing this and people had to lose there jobs and shit over this.
proandrad
Member
When did they stop? We had at least 4 this year. More if you count console exclusive.
Lucifers Beard
Member
More to the point, I don't see why any video game would need a budget that massive. Indies have shown time and time again that you can make a great game on a low budget. Too many huge teams that require too much money. Scale it all back a bit is what I say.
Killjoy-NL
Banned
Yet we have people complaining for 4 years straight that 'next-gen' is a letdown.
HogIsland
Banned
James Cameron:
"Anybody can be a father or a husband. There are only five people in the world who can do what I do"
If Playstation tried to be an indie dev they would struggle to stand out among indie devs. There's only one publisher who can make The Last of Us.
Topher
Identifies as young
Cost cutting? I didn't know it was that bad over at Sony.
It isn't. This is what happens when you let accountants run the business.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Sony couldnt even get MP games right during the 350/PS3 gen when every company was churning out shooters and every big company stuck with at least one biggie. Even Splatoon which came out on Nintendo systems later on did well.
So why Sony keeps knocking on the door doesn't make sense. Just focus on what youre good at, and if you want to dabble with GAAS then do it slowly and test it out. instead they go ape shit on Bungie, Haven, Firewalk, numerous internally made ones which some are cancelled already, Deviation Games and anything else I missed. They got one homerun on console: Helldivers 2.
Their biggest GAAS success story which destroys almost all games on the market is actually that mobile game Grand Order Fate (whatever it's called). So if anything, they should amp up on more of those games as they got a good thing going and they know what they're doing there. But nope, they got lured into all the GAAS talk which other companies brag about at earnings time. So they probably felt like they were missing out on the party. Instead of taking it slow, they've dove in trying to crash the party 12 times.
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Humdinger
Gold Member
Well, good. I like the guy so far, although I only have first impressions. I know that his background as CFO means that he will make sure something like Concord never happens again.
I've been disgruntled with Playstation's direction for many years now, so I hope they make changes.
I've been disgruntled with Playstation's direction for many years now, so I hope they make changes.
hinch7
Member
Good. Way too much time spend on cinematic AAA experiences and live service tiles that take 5+ years to make over this generation and not much to show for it.
Astrobot proves that you can make quality games without spending crazy budget and time and find success. Great games made with passion and gamers loving it.
Astrobot proves that you can make quality games without spending crazy budget and time and find success. Great games made with passion and gamers loving it.
Lucifers Beard
Member
This is true, but not every single game released needs to have a huge budget. There is room for good AA games within their portfolio too.
iamvin22
Industry Verified
You really think pc ports is keeping playstation first party alive?
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
How did you get that from the post exactly?
SplunkyMunkey
Member
Games going muiltiplatform more money, if Sony does tend to buy studios or publishers or any sort i don't care atleast have some ips with it!. Why not buy that IPs publishers don't hardly use i mean Road Rash IP , command & Conquer IP , Medal of Honour IP , buy the black hawk down IP , Roguespear IP of ubisoft so many unused ips that Sony can look to buy a goldmine waiting. Get rid of live services
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Self_Destructive
Member
Good. "Optimization in investment in sales and marketing" is what I can only assume is putting that money to work better for their games.. which invariably means releasing PC versions of their games closer to day and date. 2 years later and none of that money is working towards the PC releases of their games. Shrink it down to 6 months and advertise them both at the same time and they've got a much better formula for the time being.. with day and date being the ultimate goal when they feel their player base can finally accept the reality of the gaming market.
HogIsland
Banned
i don't see how you got this from my post. i think Sony is pursuing a "synergy" with PC to "grow the first party"
Agree with this they need to make a shorter window to maximize PC sales. With Helldivers and Wukong I'm sure they have seen the potential.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
I'm 50/50 on this because we simply don't know what it really means. Like of course, I have my personal preferences of what a restructuring would look like and if so, that'd be a great thing. But they could just as easily go another way which would just accelerate what I feel could be a longer-term decline.
Let's take the PC ports for example: if this restructuring is going to be them slowing down on that, scaling back the number of non-GAAS ports to that platform (at least until they get their own launcher established and find a way to monetize presence on the storefront w/o a sub but in a way that's non-intrusive) and extending the window of ports on 3P storefronts (for the games that do go to a 3P storefront) to 4-6 years (or later) for the AAA games....then that's something I feel could work.
It'd be long enough to not devalue the value-add those games would have as exclusives within the ecosystem, and even if they're Day 1 on SIE's own launcher (or have a 6 month-1 year delay there), at least that launcher is still in their sphere of influence. It's their launcher, so it's their vested interest. If the launcher becomes very popular, then even if that leads to a soft drop in console sales, it's ultimately SIE still retaining their customers especially if they also corral 3P support to it. If the launcher's a dud, then SIE don't end up eating into their console's value proposition and people will still mainly stay there.
But what do I expect SIE to do on the front of PC ports? Simple: I expect them to shorten the window of ports to Steam even smaller (6 months - 1 year), and probably even do Day 1 for certain 1P AAA non-GAAS titles. Which I thought would've been Death Stranding 2 (I still feel like that's gonna be a Day 1 Steam release now since KojiPro owns the IP rights and SIE likely won't publish it on PC), but it could just as easily be another game. That's what I expect them to do, why? Because it's the much easier strategy, and nets an immediate boost to revenue and profits. But it's also (IMO) a short-term, short-sighted strategy, that will eventually create long-term degradation to brand appeal on the console hardware side, mainly among a pocket of hardcore/core enthusiasts, which could mainly soften early adoption of future PlayStation consoles (i.e PS6).
That's why I'm approaching any talk like this with trepidation: it could easily swing one way or the other, and long-term effects could change wildly as a result. What's more, I just don't have a clear read on SIE's or Sony Corp's thinking when it comes to PlayStation, so I can't even say they'll "for certain" do the change I feel would be better for them (e.g WRT the PC strategy) the way I would've a couple years ago.
If that's confined to pushing their own PC launcher and leveraging such a push there....fine. Maybe would still be too soon IMO, but at least they'd retain maximal vertical integration/sphere of influence in the ecosystem and fully synergize software across platforms. Plus, they'd be able to push for 3P support on their storefront and if Valve & Apple show anything, that's where most of the real money comes from with having your own storefronts.
But if instead it means them pushing for shorter (6 months, for example) windows between console & Steam, or even Day 1 going forward for most/all their big games to Steam....well, they'll have an Xbox Series moment with PS6 and then look clueless asking "what happened to our console sales!?" when they had a competitor show them years ago exactly what'd happen.
Like, I don't expect PS6 to have as bad a collapse in install base as XBS has had vs. XBO, but that's mainly because PS's ceiling is higher and so too is its floor. Provided they don't make ALL of the same screw-ups Microsoft did over the years (WRT their console, Day 1 Steam was just one of quite a few from MS), their floor would remain notably higher. But they're still gonna feel a drop, particularly among early adoption rates.
Which will have some knock-on effect (to varying degree) upon adoption rates later in the gen, especially so if pricing trends mirror what we've seen this generation.
Let's take the PC ports for example: if this restructuring is going to be them slowing down on that, scaling back the number of non-GAAS ports to that platform (at least until they get their own launcher established and find a way to monetize presence on the storefront w/o a sub but in a way that's non-intrusive) and extending the window of ports on 3P storefronts (for the games that do go to a 3P storefront) to 4-6 years (or later) for the AAA games....then that's something I feel could work.
It'd be long enough to not devalue the value-add those games would have as exclusives within the ecosystem, and even if they're Day 1 on SIE's own launcher (or have a 6 month-1 year delay there), at least that launcher is still in their sphere of influence. It's their launcher, so it's their vested interest. If the launcher becomes very popular, then even if that leads to a soft drop in console sales, it's ultimately SIE still retaining their customers especially if they also corral 3P support to it. If the launcher's a dud, then SIE don't end up eating into their console's value proposition and people will still mainly stay there.
But what do I expect SIE to do on the front of PC ports? Simple: I expect them to shorten the window of ports to Steam even smaller (6 months - 1 year), and probably even do Day 1 for certain 1P AAA non-GAAS titles. Which I thought would've been Death Stranding 2 (I still feel like that's gonna be a Day 1 Steam release now since KojiPro owns the IP rights and SIE likely won't publish it on PC), but it could just as easily be another game. That's what I expect them to do, why? Because it's the much easier strategy, and nets an immediate boost to revenue and profits. But it's also (IMO) a short-term, short-sighted strategy, that will eventually create long-term degradation to brand appeal on the console hardware side, mainly among a pocket of hardcore/core enthusiasts, which could mainly soften early adoption of future PlayStation consoles (i.e PS6).
That's why I'm approaching any talk like this with trepidation: it could easily swing one way or the other, and long-term effects could change wildly as a result. What's more, I just don't have a clear read on SIE's or Sony Corp's thinking when it comes to PlayStation, so I can't even say they'll "for certain" do the change I feel would be better for them (e.g WRT the PC strategy) the way I would've a couple years ago.
If that's confined to pushing their own PC launcher and leveraging such a push there....fine. Maybe would still be too soon IMO, but at least they'd retain maximal vertical integration/sphere of influence in the ecosystem and fully synergize software across platforms. Plus, they'd be able to push for 3P support on their storefront and if Valve & Apple show anything, that's where most of the real money comes from with having your own storefronts.
But if instead it means them pushing for shorter (6 months, for example) windows between console & Steam, or even Day 1 going forward for most/all their big games to Steam....well, they'll have an Xbox Series moment with PS6 and then look clueless asking "what happened to our console sales!?" when they had a competitor show them years ago exactly what'd happen.
Like, I don't expect PS6 to have as bad a collapse in install base as XBS has had vs. XBO, but that's mainly because PS's ceiling is higher and so too is its floor. Provided they don't make ALL of the same screw-ups Microsoft did over the years (WRT their console, Day 1 Steam was just one of quite a few from MS), their floor would remain notably higher. But they're still gonna feel a drop, particularly among early adoption rates.
Which will have some knock-on effect (to varying degree) upon adoption rates later in the gen, especially so if pricing trends mirror what we've seen this generation.
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MarkMe2525
Banned
I don't see how you could look at that tweet, and come to the conclusion that they are looking to lower their revenue. The console market isn't growing at the speed needed to make up for the rapid growth (in the past 5 years) of PC gaming.