From that video of gaming tech looks like mostly old games. How about Sony TV set, does it have the same issue?
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Confirmed: PlayStation 5 and PS5 Pro Have VRR Stuttering Problems
- Thread starter OverHeat
- Start date
Arioco
Member
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Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
To be honest I didn't notice it myself but the issue seems very real (tested on multiple consoles and displays) so it needs fixing.
I love that some people are downplaying this without even watching the video. Why you are doing this? You want issues to not be fixed because even mentioning them makes Sony look bad?
I think this could be related to bullshit refresh rates invented for ntsc: 59.94/119.98Hz vs. 60/120Hz. What is funny is that even nvidia driver sets refresh rate to 119.98Hz and 120Hz option is only available via Windows settings.
PS5 is using those idiotic NTSC RR:
Horrible pictures, I know.
I don't think anyone is "downplaying" it. Rather better testing needs to be done to better understand if it is actually a source problem or not.
Has anyone turned off AMD Freesync and tested XBS?
I'm going to throw on TLOUP1 later today on my CX and see if I can replicate the issue.
kevboard
Member
To be honest I didn't notice it myself but the issue seems very real (tested on multiple consoles and displays) so it needs fixing.
I love that some people are downplaying this without even watching the video. Why you are doing this? You want issues to not be fixed because even mentioning them makes Sony look bad?
I think this could be related to bullshit refresh rates invented for ntsc: 59.94/119.98Hz vs. 60/120Hz. What is funny is that even nvidia driver sets refresh rate to 119.98Hz and 120Hz option is only available via Windows settings.
PS5 is using those idiotic NTSC RR:
Horrible pictures, I know.
the fact that the weird NTSC analog color TV refresh rates are still a thing in the digital age is kinda insane yeah. at this point any device should just run at an even 60 or 120 hz
it's weird that there even is a setting for 119.88hz in the first place... that's entirely unnecessary
the only reason NTSC color TV was 59.94hz in the first place is due to the additional color information that had to be added to the backwards compatible black and white transmission. NTSC was an even 60hz before color TV launched.
so there was never any technical reason for any console to run at 59.94hz, as that refresh only existed so that TV channels could cram color information into their existing allocated analog frequency band... a console isn't bound by that however... and TVs aren't either ever since digital TV replaced analog TV
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Jumping to that conclusion based on the information so far is premature.
If that's the case it should likely be happening on ALL TVs and ALL monitors...
kevboard
Member
it probably does happen on all TVs and monitors. the issue however is that most people who are tech savvy enough to test this stuff either own a Samsung or an LG, as these are by far the best gaming TVs, so getting info on other vendors is not easy unless people spread the word on the issue and maybe someone who owns a TCL, Panasonic or Sony sees it and is able to do testing (preferably with video evidence)
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Well hopefully its software issue and just need update or patch. Good thing not all games and mostly older games. Since Sony watched Df, I hope they also give attention to this issue. Not game breaking but its still a problem
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Just played Spider-Man Remastered on the PS5 Pro for about 40-45 minutes... not a single occurrence.
Edit: LG CX on latest firmware version 04.50.90
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Bojji
Member
They said that kingdom come 2 didn't have any issues with series x so that is not the display problem.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Did they disable AMD freesync before performing the test?
kevboard
Member
is spiderman even among the affected games? does that TV have a refresh counter?
Bojji
Member
They should (Xbox support plain vrr as well) but they didn't talk about it in details.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
It was listed as an effected game on their corresponding article. Yes it has a refresh counter.
Not talking about it in detail is as massive a problem as not testing it with it off. This is exactly what I mean when I say there is a lack of detail around the testing here and not enough information to conclude that the problem is with the PS5/Pro.
If a tech brought me this level of testing, I would kick it back to them for more testing. To not test a single device (in the same state) let alone multiple devices (sources) makes this pretty weak analysis.
kevboard
Member
film it and share the info then. because if you're right this could be valuable info for fixing this.
run the game for 30+ minutes without switching inputs or graphics modes, run it in an unlocked mode with VRR, and then film the refresh counter of the TV.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
I just did all of that, what would filming it prove to you that me telling you I did it doesn't? If you trust me enough to believe that it's been on for 30+ minutes or that I didn't change inputs, why aren't you able to trust that I literally just did exactly that. I specifically picked a game off of their list too.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
And if it were a display problem, it would probably happen on all the tested games, not just some of them.
Seems like DF are on the money.
btw which TCL do you have?
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kevboard
Member
you're right, without filming for a full 30min it wouldn't be evidence. but I generally don't trust anyone online without evidence lol
also I thought in the DF video they said that Spiderman was a game where they weren't sure it had the issue due to how extremely unstable the game is by default...
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
What game would you like me to test then? Or is there any point since you're default is not believing anyone.
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kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
It could be a problem linked to games that got a PS5 Pro/PSSR update and were compiled using the same SDK version.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
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Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
This is a good theory but God of War Ragnarok was updated for PS5 Pro and thus on a newer SDK and is not on the list of affected games.
What specific model of TVs did you test against?
That's not what he said...
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kevboard
Member
elden ring in quality mode should be a good one I guess. also use the VRR refresh display by quickly tapping the green button multiple times, don't use the laggy gaming overlay LGs often have. the refresh overlay is updating basically in real time, while the gaming overlay only updates every half a second or so.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Elden Ring does not have Pro upgrades, nor does it have PSSR. Neither does Spider-Man Remastered. Or Metaphor Refantazio.
It is not tied to Pro upgrades, patches.
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Mr Moose
Gold Member
Why quality mode? That's a shit fps, probably below the VRR window.
Edit: Oh they are using the Pro in the video on Quality mode. I could only test it with OG PS5, but I don't really want to wait 30 minutes.
Maybe an update around Pro launch.
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Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Like I said there are holes in his theory, but he didn't say anything about it not happening on PS5, he was focused on updated games running on a recent SDK.
- I don't have Elden Ring
- The LG CX doesn't have the overlay, it only has the green button stat monitor, which is what I used
- Hogwarts Legacy
- TLOU P1
- TLOU P2
- Marvel's Spider-Man Remastered
- Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart
ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
CX has a service mode from a special remote (wich I have for deep pixel refresh), but I'm not payed enough to perform a thorough testing. Unlike DF.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
OK ?
The issue is happening on games in multiple types of displays, that's the key takeaway.
They say they tested base PS5's as well and the problems happen there too.
Many will probably not notice this issue as it happens in games with wildly fluctuating frame rates or games that let you unlock FPS, it doesn't effect all games anyway.
We could even jot it down to a simple case of placebo like how many PC players state that they don't notice any stuttering in their game even though there's places like DF etc that put out videos of PC versions of said games having stutter problems.
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Mr Moose
Gold Member
Elden Ring on Quality Mode on OG PS5?
Disgusting.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Mr Moose
Gold Member
I remember trying it, it was horrible, well below VRR range (like 35fps or some shite).If you wanna see a notable variance in frame rates, that is *the* game to go
kevboard
Member
huh, I didn't know the CX didn't have that gaming overlay yet. I thought LG had this since they started adding gaming centric features like VRR, gsync and the like. but good to know that it does have the green button refresh monitor already.
TLOU 1 seems to have a pretty stable framerate, I guess that one would be the best to test it on.
I'm going to test it later on my Samsung S95B, just to see. I have seen people test the 95C and the QLED models, but not the S95B.
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Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
And I'm telling you, that isn't enough information to say that this is a problem with PS5/Pro rather than some implementation issue with specific tv models. It could be either, and none of the testing that has been done from DF (or others) is sufficient to say otherwise.
If it was a PS5/Pro issue, it should be impacting ALL displays. That it isn't suggest that there is a discrepancy SOMEWHERE, whether it be with the PS5/Pro or whether it be with the affected displays.
That DF said they tested the Xbox with the same games, but did not confirm turning off AMD FreeSync is a massive mistake in testing. That they didn't try VRR via any other device that uses HDMI Forum Standard VRR is another glaring mistake.
For all we know it could be the cables used in conjunction with HDMI VRR 2.1.
I work in IT and solve problems like this for a living. I'm telling you that the amount of testing here is an absolute joke. You want to test constants and variables to better ascertain what is going on BEFORE coming to a conclusion.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
I'll test it later today and let everyone know.
The LGs have had the green button refresh monitor dating back to at least the LG C8 which I also have but wouldn't test given that it does not support 4K120.
Arioco
Member
A C805/C755 miniled.
Unlike DF I couldn't find the issue in Horizon:FW or Spiderman Remastered, but I haven't tested long enough and some people say the stuttering can take up to 20 minutes to appear. It's pretty obvious in TLOU2 Remastered though to the point I disabled VRR and played the game at locked 60 fps instead, it felt way smoother.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I think it would be the opposite. If the *display* were the problem, why would the issue skip some games and only happen in others? The unifying factor, the display, is the same across the board in that case.
To me it pretty easily looks like a console-end issue, something in the way the console handles VRR is not working properly. To a lesser extent, it could be a software side issue too.
Do you happen to have an Xbox Series console too? That TV only does HDMI forum VRR, doesn't support Freesync, so it would be a good place to test if Xbox also has that issue in the absence of Freesync.
kevboard
Member
do you have an Xbox? because since you have an LG it could also be interesting to test Xbox games by forcing HDMI VRR. Sadly on Samsung you can't individually disable freesync as they tied all the VRR settings into a single one (which kinda makes sense tbh).
LG, as far as I know, only ties Gsync and HDMI VRR into one setting, while freesync is a separate one that can be disabled.
so if you set your CX to Freesnyc off and Gsync on, the Xbox will be forec into HDMI VRR mode.
but not sure which game would he good to test there as on xbox every single game supports 120hz with system level LFC, so it's hard to tell if this would even really show up in 120hz mode unless the game actually has a built in 120hz/unlocked 60+fps mode.
so you'd probably need to run at 60hz and in a game with an unstable framerate that can be forced to run somewhat stable between 48 and 60 fps.
games that do have unlocked native 120hz modes would be Kingdom Come 2 of course. not sure what else tho.
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Traxtech
Member
On my G1, the only game I've noticed it on personally has been the last of us part 2 remastered with unlocked fps and vrr engaged and I had to turn off unlocked frame rate because of how jarring it is.
Every other game with both unlocked fps/vrr I've tried I haven't had the issue, and I am very prone to stutter.
Every other game with both unlocked fps/vrr I've tried I haven't had the issue, and I am very prone to stutter.
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Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
It very well could be the console. What I'm saying is that there isn't enough evidence to prove that at this point. The same question can be asked, if it isn't happening on my LG CX, why isn't it?
I don't have an Xbox. I absolutely would have tested without Freesync if I did though. It would have been the first thing I tested, which is again kind of wild that DF omitted any mention of it.
If I had a problem with a vendor like this and came to them with this level of testing they would laugh in my face.
That they've kicked off this whirlwind with limited testing kind of goes to my point about DF in general. At the end of the day, they could be totally right and this could be a PS5 issue and there could be a reason why it isn't impacting my LG CX or maybe I'll try another game and it will be impacted.
But from an IT perspective I would tell you, I would test the following
Multiple different models of TVs from different manufacturers running different firmware/different year models
Multiple different HDMI 2.1 cables from leading brands
Multiple different source devices running specifically in HDMI 2.1 VRR mode
As it relates to the PS5, I would also test with force VRR on and off and honestly that's just the start. I would have done all of this BEFORE writing a scathing article blaming Sony.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Hey, I have a cx and a service remote. What's the option for a deep pixel refresh, pls dude.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
With your CX, you could probably test the XSX with Freesync disabled and tell us if you notice anything
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
What games are you testing? Do you have the tools to measure those stutters? There's people on Era etc saying they can confirm the issues on their LG C1's etc too after someone told them how to bring up the FPS Counter on the TV end.
Have you tested with it and not noticed any FPS jumps?
=
From Era
Press the green several times button to show the FPS counter if you have an LG OLED.
Exact same scene (note the FPS in the 1st and 2nd). 2nd screen shot shows the jump in the FPS to 118 every 8 seconds or so.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
I'm using the exact same counter on the LG CX.
I've tested Spider-Man Remastered and I previously played Hogwarts Legacy and did not experience this.
I'll test either TLOUP1 or P2 later today.
ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
OLED Panel Care
├── Pixel Cleaning
Service menu basically enables more agressive algorithm and I perform it once a year along with. You can also disable GSR and TPC. It will remove an annoying agressive dimming algorithm (though I turn them back up when don't use CX as a PC monitor)
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Started The Last of Us Part 1 on PS5 Pro in Pro Mode Unlocked Framerate at 9:40 Eastern Standard Time.
Edit: I am indeed observing it in TLOUP1 after 19 minutes.
Edit: I am indeed observing it in TLOUP1 after 19 minutes.
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Arioco
Member
As far as I know that TV supports Freesync, it's Gsync what's not supported. At least that's what TCL says o their website.
https://www.tcl.com/es/es/tvs/65-c805
Unfortunately I don't have a Series S/X so I can't test it myself, but I looked up on YouTube and I found some people playing on Series X and I noticed that on XBOX the game bar says "Freesync Premium" if you enable VRR. That's not the case when using my PS5, the game bar just says "VRR: Activado" (enabled), no mention of Freesync whatsoever. So yes, all indicates the TV supports both forms of VRR.
XBOX:
PS5:
Physiognomonics
Member
Sony's VRR really suck on PS5. It was not there at launch, then the window is too small then this.
Problem is that they are so slow with the updates (how many years to get partially useable freaking folders?) that this could takes years before fixing. But the main problem for me about VRR is the small window and lack of LFC by default.
Also I still don't understand why the window should be so limited. When I first read the specs of VRR many years ago the window was 9fps-60fps. What happened?
Problem is that they are so slow with the updates (how many years to get partially useable freaking folders?) that this could takes years before fixing. But the main problem for me about VRR is the small window and lack of LFC by default.
Also I still don't understand why the window should be so limited. When I first read the specs of VRR many years ago the window was 9fps-60fps. What happened?
kevboard
Member
As far as I know that TV supports Freesync, it's Gsync what's not supported. At least that's what TCL says o their website.
https://www.tcl.com/es/es/tvs/65-c805
Unfortunately I don't have a Series S/X so I can't test it myself, but I looked up on YouTube and I found some people playing on Series X and I noticed that on XBOX the game bar says "Freesync Premium" if you enable VRR. That's not the case when using my PS5, the game bar just says "VRR: Activado" (enabled), no mention of Freesync whatsoever. So yes, all indicates the TV supports both forms of VRR.
XBOX:
PS5:
most Freesync Premium screens also support Gsync, it might just not be verified by Nvidia
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
There you go, thanks for checking first hand.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
You fundamentally don't understand any of this.
PS5 uses the HDMI FORUM VRR Standard. This is why the window is limited.
I have significant questions as to why Sony didn't implement AMD Freesync, but we don't know the answer to that. I have my theory which is that Sony TVs don't support Freesync and PS5 supporting Freesync when Sony TVs don't could create a PR issue and PlayStation still owes the TV division for keeping Sony above water during the PS3 era, so they're willing to eat a shit sandwich for the next few years but my guess is that Sony TVs will have to support freesync by 2028 when the PS6 releases.