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[Ozriel]

After we have seen for the last months, what value does a confirmatiion holds ?! Ill repeat for the third time: If this MS strategy double crosses Rockstar stragegy, I WONT be surprised that a xseries GTA VI is postponed or even cancelled. It's a matter of money, pure and simple. Im noy saying GTA VI is a PS5 exclusive... but given the money involved and the potential double dip money... i won't be surprised if that is the case.

How does this 'double cross' Rockstar's strategy when it would simply be playing the Series X version of the game?

How did this make sense to you?

And how is Microsoft going to make up that loss revenue and profit? Why don't you guys think some of these things true, before you believe them? At least make a case as to "HOW" MS will drop the multiplayer paywall, before believing the story.

I'm only saying this to some of yall to help you going forward, since some of yall can't see that you're being YoYo'ed again through Xbox Executive backstage marketing.

Do you know the mental leaps you have to go through to accept that MS would allow you play your Steam games on the next console, while believing they'd charge you money to play your Steam games online?

FFS, man.

The point is, Sarah Bond has already said that the model is from the Rog Ally, which doesn't have a retrofit.

...That was with respect to integrating multiple stores in the UI

That is, if it's not a paper launch.

They make 500,000 units, and that's it. When they sell out, it's over. Anyone who wants more should wait for OEMs to order APUs from MS to build their versions, IF they exist.

For those who are buying, I recommend having the money set aside now and pre-ordering as soon as possible.

This reads like wishful thinking on your part, tbh.

 

[GHG]

Kacho have a watch of the video posted in this thread from the timestamp:

Thread 'Digital Foundry crew bash Windows for 18 minutes straight'

Yesterday at 7:47 PM

Three of the torchbearers of PC gaming (Battaglia, Leadbetter and Linneman) start gang banging on Windows and the thing keeps on going for minutes and minutes. I find that curious since some people told me that PC gaming was a breeze nowadays.
Timestamped.

• Radical_3d

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Alex summarises what I was explaining regarding the windows store differences well.

 

[viveks86]

BC being as grey as it is, I expect some devs will exercise their right to opt-out.

If they are able to limit BC to just the Magnus "console" via some hardware/software DRM, I don't see why that would bother publishers. Legally, it would only work on this one class of device, so the license won't be transferable to another regular PC. If a user owns a Magnus and Xbox Ally X, they would still need to double dip to get a non-play anywhere title to work on both. So as far as the publisher is concerned, it's status quo. If BC somehow becomes available to all RDNA 5 (and above) PCs, that's a whole different matter. I doubt that's happening.

 

[KeplerL2]

I used to be team console, but over time, I've become team confused. I'm still inclined to believe @HeisenbergFX4 more than Jez as Jez's sourcing on MS has been super unreliable lately.

But @SneakersSO backed up these claims already as well, so... I don't know.

May be they are all just interpreting the same thing differently? It will certainly be marketed as a console and would look like one... with the lines being blurred so much, it's almost like it is whatever you want to call it.

Jez is confusing "Xbox console" and "Xbox PC" as if they are the same thing

AMD making a GPU as powerful as a top-tier nVidia card is unheard of. I would temper that expectation and fully expect AI driven tech to make this thing reach 4K.

AT2 isn't even half the performance of their next-gen flagship

 

[GHG]

AT2 isn't even half the performance of their next-gen flagship

Now this excites me.

 

[nial]

Jez is confusing "Xbox console" and "Xbox PC" as if they are the same thing

 

[viveks86]

Jez is confusing "Xbox console" and "Xbox PC" as if they are the same thing

Geez. If true, I just wasted a LOT of time speculating how this will play out...

 

[bitbydeath]

Jez is confusing "Xbox console" and "Xbox PC" as if they are the same thing

I'd say the only reason why we've only seen one spec leak is because there is only one spec.

 

[BattleScar]

AT2 isn't even half the performance of their next-gen flagship

Now now, lets not get carried away.

You of all people should know better than to talk about performance targets for unreleased products.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

"It's just four games" Why are we acting like jiz has a clue?

 

[bitbydeath]

"It's just four games" Why are we acting like jiz has a clue?

He's a Xbox marketing mouthpiece.

 

[Zacfoldor]

If all this is true it still isn't any better for Xbox and it is what most of us expected all along.

No way this thing moves numbers.

I suspect that we will also be unifying console and PC gamepass when this launches.

I reckon that the price of PC gamepass will increase.

Gamepass is now at odds with the price of the hardware. If gamepass is a way to play cheaply, a 1000 dollar PC is not who I would think that audience would be. Gamepass itself is also not cheap and will get more expensive. So Xbox will be the worst deal in gaming. It's a prebuilt that runs off a subscription service. It is the scummiest of the scum and you literally have to hide gamers from people to keep them from recommending against this. I get that enthusiasts would buy anything but honestly who would ever recommend one of these to a new gamer? All the worst parts of a prebuilt and a console along with the worst parts of PC gaming. The full power of Windows. It's hilarious. 7m max lifetime, tops. Probably lower. I mean, at the very basic level, a prebuilt? Really? With full windows, but you are hocking it as a console because of beta version of big picture mode? The bait and switch with this thing will be incredible. The regret will be at levels yet unplumbed. These dudes went full bandit money grabber didn't they?

 

[MisterXDTV]

Jez is confusing "Xbox console" and "Xbox PC" as if they are the same thing

AT2 isn't even half the performance of their next-gen flagship

So are they releasing 2 different hardware setups again??

LOL

 

[nial]

So are they releasing 2 different hardware setups again??

LOL

Xbox PCs are third-party manufactured OEMs.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Xbox PCs are third-party manufactured OEMs.

OK, but the specs are the same for "first party" and OEMs?

 

[nial]

OK, but the specs are the same for "first party" and OEMs?

Not sure if that would be relevant if those OEMs just run Windows software, anyway.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Not sure if that would be relevant if those OEMs just run Windows software, anyway.

I mean, are we still still talking that "Magnus" thing for both products?

 

[nial]

I mean, are we still still talking that "Magnus" thing for both products?

Ah, sure. But again, not like it matters much.

 

[memoryman3]

Jez is confusing "Xbox console" and "Xbox PC" as if they are the same thing

He was pretty clear about this.

Xbox Console: Backwards compatible chip.

Xbox PC: OEMs that do not use the Magnus chip and aren't natively backwards compatible.

He also claimed that the first "Xbox PC" OEM products coming next year would be part of the latter group.

 

[mckmas8808]

If Sony wants to grow their Mau then they will have to ensure ps6 or portable is inexpensive. That delay in releasing day1 on pc will be examined if there is no growth.

They shouldn't want to grow their MAUs, if it means the money they get per person is less. Meaning what does it mean to grow you "MAUs" if people stop buying on the PS consoles and move to PC with other accounts?

 

[mdkirby]

Beyond my amazing new innovative idea, I call it the 'wheel'

 

[mckmas8808]

I want to understand the economics of getting rid of the billions of dollars of revenue from paid online play.
How are they gonna work that into their new margin targets?

Nobody wants to have that conversation because Jez makes them happy tossing out his wishlist.

 

[IntentionalPun]

What I've been saying from the start is what this is all really about is taking another pass at making Windows Store relevant for gaming. I really hope it doesn't work, and hope 3rd parties just keep releasing on Steam and ignore the Windows Store (renamed Xbox store of course.)

 

[memoryman3]

What I've been saying from the start is what this is all really about is taking another pass at making Windows Store relevant for gaming. I really hope it doesn't work, and hope 3rd parties just keep releasing on Steam and ignore the Windows Store (renamed Xbox store of course.)

Why would you want a Steam monopoly, where Valve does almost nothing aside from taking 30% royalties from smaller developers?

 

[bigdad2007]

This also means essentially the end of GamePass. I can almost 100% guarantee a ton of the current basic plans are just people paying to play stuff like Minecraft online.

So essentially this is all marketing speak for the future of Xbox is an optional launcher for Windows and branding Asus puts on some hardware.

It's dead Jim.

 

[mckmas8808]

If free MP is indeed happening, I don't see them offering 2 interfaces. It seems like a needlessly convoluted half measure that has inconsistent and confusing end user experience on the same device that connects to the same store.

This sounds to me like they plan to fully merge their PC and console eco system into one. Whatever losses they incur as a result, they probably have decided to absorb it.

Have yall not been paying attention to anything MS has done or said over the last 3 months? Why do you think they will "absorb losses" at this point or any point with Next Gen?

 

[Fafalada]

Remember the sticker shock for the fat PS3 having onboard BC chip?

Launch Fat PS3 had 36MB of extra RAM, and other extra chips. The total added BOM exceeded 50$, but at the time, even without it 599$ was unavoidable.

Anyway this thing reads more like it will have some authetication hw to allow it to run XBox binaries, I just don't see they'd run some massive cost on it.
And it's not like Series has BC chips on-board, and everything older than X1 is already emulated. It would also jive with the whole 'OEMs can build their own Box' that is alluded to, allowing MS to put hardware on the side properly. I mean a 3DO/MSX still sounds better than a Pippin.

 

[mayham2199]

I want to understand the economics of getting rid of the billions of dollars of revenue from paid online play.
How are they gonna work that into their new margin targets?

My only guess is the expect it to sell so little that it wont make a difference. They wont be removing paid online from their Xbox One\series users so they'll keep the revenue going.

 

[Jinxed]

So another useless thing MS will throw money at and fail. It's like they do it on purpose

 

[Mister Wolf]

Have yall not been paying attention to anything MS has done or said over the last 3 months? Why do you think they will "absorb losses" at this point or any point with Next Gen?

Them days are over.

 

[Kacho]

Why would you want a Steam monopoly, where Valve does almost nothing aside from taking 30% royalties from smaller developers?

Steam isn't a monopoly. There are plenty of alternatives and people will choose the best one. Steam offers the best features and has the most robust games catalog because they nurtured PC gaming for the past 20 years.

 

[viveks86]

I mean, are we still still talking that "Magnus" thing for both products?

Magnus is just the SoC. Given the chiplet design, for simplicity's sake, think of it as the CPU part of the die. That will remain the same. The GPU part (called GMD in this case) could be lower or higher variants. There was talk about AT1 to AT5 as being potential variants with AT2 being the Xbox "Console".

So technically, the OEMs could have much higher end variants for their own prebuilt PCs. I believe there is one lower end variant possible as well. Though no actual specs are known/confirmed for these variants.

At least that's my novice level understanding based on rumors.

 

[damidu]

worst selling xbox ever, and their last ditch desperate attempt, before sizzling out of hw completely.
quote me on that.
its collapse will also coincide with conveniently timed retirement of spencer.

 

[bitbydeath]

So are they releasing 2 different hardware setups again??

LOL

No.
Ask yourself, what would be the point?
Spending money just to say a console exists does not make any sense.

It'll be a PC, only a PC.

 

[GHG]

Why would you want a Steam monopoly, where Valve does almost nothing aside from taking 30% royalties from smaller developers?

The "monopoly":

PC Games on Sale 🎮 PC Game Discounts

Check PC game prices from over 50 stores in one place! You'll easily find the best Steam deals and offers from other DRMs.

gg.deals

 

[IntentionalPun]

Why would you want a Steam monopoly, where Valve does almost nothing aside from taking 30% royalties from smaller developers?

Hi I'm Gabe, where should I start?

 

[Humdinger]

If I understand Microsoft's naming conventions correctly, they'll call it "Xbox Windows And Native Kernel", which will be shortened to XWANK. They will use this nomenclature unironically.

That would be glorious.

 

[bender]

What I've been saying from the start is what this is all really about is taking another pass at making Windows Store relevant for gaming. I really hope it doesn't work, and hope 3rd parties just keep releasing on Steam and ignore the Windows Store (renamed Xbox store of course.)

Phil said losing the PS4 generation was catastrophic for the Xbox brand because of the emergence of digital libraries on console and that entrenching users into ecosystems. Steam is obviously much more established with a userbase that is far more entrenched, so much so that I don't think any Microsoft executive is delusional enough to think they can make a dent in it.

 

[bitbydeath]

Why would you want a Steam monopoly, where Valve does almost nothing aside from taking 30% royalties from smaller developers?

Microsoft are not the competitors you want, they would try turn all games into running on the cloud because they own and have invested a lot into that space.

 

[mckmas8808]

Do you know the mental leaps you have to go through to accept that MS would allow you play your Steam games on the next console, while believing they'd charge you money to play your Steam games online?

FFS, man.

You really are being ignorant about reading people's posts lately it seems. I'm not saying MS will charge for online play in this new "machine". I'm saying if they do completely get rid of the online paywall, they'd LITERALLY (yes I mean literally) will be giving up a minimum of $2 BILLION dollars per year if they don't change the current pricing of GamePass. You and I both know they aren't going to give up that type of money.

So, this all comes at a financial cost that MS will want to make back up plus more; because the financials currently aren't working out for Xbox. Just wake up and at least come to reality.

 

[viveks86]

Have yall not been paying attention to anything MS has done or said over the last 3 months? Why do you think they will "absorb losses" at this point or any point with Next Gen?

Fair point. I was just trying to reconcile what Jez said with what we already know about their unifying strategy around Windows and Game Pass.

But now K KeplerL2 thinks Jez may be mistakenly conflating Xbox PC with the Xbox console. So pretend I said nothing on the topic. Lol

 

[MisterXDTV]

Magnus is just the SoC. Given the chiplet design, for simplicity's sake, think of it as the CPU part of the die. That will remain the same. The GPU part (called GMD in this case) could be lower or higher variants. There was talk about AT1 to AT5 as being potential variants with AT2 being the Xbox "Console".

So technically, the OEMs could have much higher end variants for their own prebuilt PCs. I believe there is one lower end variant possible as well. Though no actual specs are known/confirmed for these variants.

At least that's my novice level understanding based on rumors.

OK, so AT2 would be like the "official" MS version of these mini-PCs based on Magnus

Still sounds like a complete mess to me....

LOL

 

[tusharngf]

If it runs steam and epic store ..count me in. I got tones of xbox360 digital games as well.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

With all their capital Is it so difficult for management and staff there to produce a traditional console and be successful?

Games
Hardware at a fair price
Cool new and improved features that compliment the experience

Do well in those three, games above all else and you have something exciting

Is that so difficult for people being paid millions a year to pull off?

They make everything so unnecessarily complicated or underwhelming.

 

[bitbydeath]

You really are being ignorant about reading people's posts lately it seems. I'm not saying MS will charge for online play in this new "machine". I'm saying if they do completely get rid of the online paywall, they'd LITERALLY (yes I mean literally) will be giving up a minimum of $2 BILLION dollars per year if they don't change the current pricing of GamePass. You and I both know they aren't going to give up that type of money.

So, this all comes at a financial cost that MS will want to make back up plus more; because the financials currently aren't working out for Xbox. Just wake up and at least come to reality.

There's rumours of BC needing a cloud handshake to ensure you are licensed to play your old games, meaning a GamePass tier 1 sub would be required to access your old games.

That would serve as the replacement.

 

[Warnen]

 

[mckmas8808]

There's rumours of BC needing a cloud handshake to ensure you are licensed to play your old games, meaning a GamePass tier 1 sub would be required to access your old games.

That would serve as the replacement.

Holy smokes LOL!!! That would be sneaky and a slap to the face of all Xbox hardcore gamers world wide.

Magnus is just the SoC. Given the chiplet design, for simplicity's sake, think of it as the CPU part of the die. That will remain the same. The GPU part (called GMD in this case) could be lower or higher variants. There was talk about AT1 to AT5 as being potential variants with AT2 being the Xbox "Console".

So technically, the OEMs could have much higher end variants for their own prebuilt PCs. I believe there is one lower end variant possible as well. Though no actual specs are known/confirmed for these variants.

At least that's my novice level understanding based on rumors.

Are you sure AT2 is the Xbox Console? That can't be right, can it?......

 

[viveks86]

Are you sure AT2 is the Xbox Console? That can't be right, can it?......

 

[ZehDon]

With all their capital Is it so difficult for management and staff there to produce a traditional console and be successful?

Games
Hardware at a fair price
Cool new and improved features that compliment the experience...

I'd argue that the Series X is a rock-solid piece of kit, and it has plenty of great features like Quick Resume that are game changers. This generation at least, I feel Microsoft delivered on the hardware front. Where they fall down the stairs and then out the window is the bolded: games. It's a game console without games to actually sell it. Microsoft is not a creative company. They do not hire, retain, or train up creative people. They cannot tell the difference between a good game and a bad game. And it shows in their output, which has been so poor that it's effectively killed their platform.

 

[Plague Doctor]

coincide with conveniently timed retirement of spencer.

Can I tell you how much I look forward to so many fucking people do a 180 on Phil Spencer the day he is out?

Oh... it will be fucking glorious to see the whiplash, immediate shit talking so many will have.

The "let's be honest about Phil..." posts.