Probably not. 9800X3D has 12x L3 cache and while Zen6 will be faster, it's likely not fast enough to offset the clock deficit of the c-variant (Zen6c maybe 3.5-4GHz vs 5.4GHz).
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[MLiD] PS6 & PSSR2 Dev Update
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
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Probably not. 9800X3D has 12x L3 cache and while Zen6 will be faster, it's likely not fast enough to offset the clock deficit of the c-variant (Zen6c maybe 3.5-4GHz vs 5.4GHz).
Games Bookstore
Member
If I am right it's entirely possible we will have similar issues to what Microsoft had this generation supporting there consoles.So, you telling me they're gonna Series S their next gen console and drag the whole industry to cater to the lowest common denominator just so it can play games for this fad? Nice, remember how for many years people were bitching (and rightfully so) about Series S? Don't tell me now will be "different" for some reason...
Guess the gap between consoles and PCMR is gonna get even bigger...
There are some differences this time around that could change that. Namely Machine Learning and the screen resolution of the portable. Let's also remember the jump from ps4 to ps5 wasn't huge either diminishing returns during next gen will definitely play a role.
If Valve and steam deck have taught us anything, supporting PC and a device that plays a large chunk of PC games portably is possible.
If Sony allows users to enable/disabled more taxing features and the base (PS6P) has minimal to none enabled due to hardware limitations, I don't see this as much of a limiting factor as Series S was to to Series X. Bare in mind Microsoft mandated feature parity between the 2 consoles as well (and subsequently walked back that mandate on a case by case basis with titles such as Balder's gate 3), perhaps Sony won't.
Guess depends. People like Bonjji should be mandatory in this forum. He just moleste and nothing more. Still continue to put laugh reaction in the other posts and continue to provocate even when you called him out, used the ignore list always fixates for the same argument. It's exaperating have to do with someone who obviously has a sort of psychological disturb which like harass so much.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
None.
Bojji
Gold Member
Zero chance, that Zen6C is close to 7700X according to MLiD.
Our discussions are always the same: I post stuff based on facts and sources (I add them) and you post based on your feelings (How DARE you post something negative about my favorite company!). My ignore list is empty.
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Felessan
Member
It a waste of silicon
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Whats a waste of silicone? a 9800X3D?
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dgrdsv
Member
Fully expect that "huge leap" to end up being +10% per clock with slightly higher clocks (another 10%). And that's me being generous. There will likely be some wins from a different CCD organization but that likely won't mean much for gaming.
Also no there is no chance for a Zen6c based console CPU to be as strong as the strongest gaming Zen5 PC part. If they'd wait for another couple of generations and used some Zen8 or 9 then maybe.
Felessan
Member
Yes
Consoles don't (shouldn't) need that powerfull CPU - it's a waste of silicon space
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
YOure probably right, considering the GPU they are gonna put in it.
What about a 7500X3D that would be nice
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kevboard
Member
they shouldn't... but sadly they do due to poor optimisation and UE5 being a dogshit engine that has issues which a high end CPU at least can mitigate a tiny bit.
with UE5 spreading like the plague, better CPUs sadly are needed.
I mean fuck... Hellblade 2, a fully linear game with barely any NPCs, almost zero interactivity and basically zero player freedom was fucking CPU limited and needed 1 year of additional CPU optimisations to get a 60fps mode.
Bojji
Gold Member
Was it confirmed to be CPU limited? I think they just didn't want to do it, I always suggested that using Series S settings would make SX run it in 60fps.
Anyway, game probably uses older version than 5.4. That version added ~40% CPU performance and recently 5.6 improved it further. UE 5.0 was like pre alpha, lol.
viveks86
Member
Also with 5.7, PS5 CPU performance is further up by 15% (according to Epic). They made some PS5 specific memory API redesign.
It's crazy how unoptimized UE came out of the gate
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kevboard
Member
according to PC tests it seemed like a CPU limit.
at least DF's test with the repurposed PS5 CPU board resulted in an unstable performance when trying to reach 60fps with the PC version.
and, they could be lying of course, but I think they officially stated that CPU optimisations were the reason it got a 60fps mode
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
EXACTLY!!! Don't make it mandatory.
ottlord_rex
Member
How exactly did you come to that conclusion? Consoles are just computers with a locked down OS and one (or two) very specific hardware configurations.
Mate in your PC you have 2 cores almost full dedicated to load/decompress/move assets from disk to RAM and VRAM. PS5 have a dedicated chip for the same task. The same for the Audio for example, where most people have shitty integrated audio chip need the CPU for several tasks when consoles have dedicated hardware. Consoles have a fixed hardware with several advantages over the equivalent hardware on PC.
The wattage gap you highlight is real. But I dont think people that will be buying the portable expect the same visuals or performance as the main PS6(same game different visual requirements in practice). I think its going to be a 1080p 30fps device(lower internal res, reduced RT/effects, lower LOD) and if the leaks are accurate then it has sufficient memory and CPU for a portable device.
I would have been concerned if it was rumoured to have something like 16GB of total memory because that could bring about serious feature parity issues. Also I wouldnt discount hw accelerated AI upscaling for a device targeting 1080p 30fps output with lowered visual fidelity on a much smaller screen. If executed well(which Sony is good at) dont think consumers will have an issue.
Felessan
Member
It's PC guys fantasies. Usual delusions from people who know nothing besides names of technologies. Just because consoles uses similar architecture doesn't make them PC - hardware and more importantly software stacks are very different. And fixed spec helps a lot.
Like 99% PC games still use archaic S/HDD to RAM (via CPU copy/uncompress) to VRAM (via CPU copy), because PC has hell lot of configuration to support and even HDD is still a thing in PC gaming. Current gen consoles use much more efficient approach of NVME to VRAM (via GPU on xbox/dedicated chip on ps5). And having unified pool of memory simplify some stuff (and remove CPU work of moving data between pools of memory). The real problem of PC gaming is that it's a zoo of configurations and some of them really archaic compared to current-gen consoles. And devs tends to aim for lowest common denominator as it's the biggest crowd in PC space.
Most of the stuff that are "done" on CPU could be done on GPU as well. And if task is done on CPU it's just oversight of console architect and it'll be probably fixed in the next iteration. The real stuff CPU does is scheduling and waiting for tasks to finish, and you don't need 9800X3D for that.
Bojji
Gold Member
Most console games don't even use that I/O systems with hardware decompressions and such. You can blame PC for that but reality is, devs are too lazy to change what they used for decades. What is interesting is that games that load in seconds on consoles (like SM2, Ratchet) also do that on PC...
That's is also the reason why we can count games using mesh shaders on the fingers of one hand.
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winjer
Gold Member
It's not an illusion. Most of the hardware in modern day consoles are off the self stuff, with some customization.
The biggest difference are APIs. Something that PC is lagging well behind, greatly in due part to Microsoft's complete and utter incompetence.
A good example of this, is hat it took almost 15 years, for Microsoft to release a native NVME driver for Windows. And even this, is still only officially available for Windows servers.
Even the SSD controller of the PS5, is just a Tri-core ARM CPU with custom firmware running on it, to decompress data.
And this isn't even the biggest advantage, but rather the modern file system and IO APIs that the PS5 uses.
Moridianae
Member
Been considering a PS5 Pro for a time now, but it's a big financial move. Im interested to see just how much this new version of PSSR helps move the system forward before I decide.
I don't know. I feel like by the time I even get around to getting one, the PS6 will be out relatively soon. Isn't it rumored to be around 27? Or is it 28 now?
I don't know. I feel like by the time I even get around to getting one, the PS6 will be out relatively soon. Isn't it rumored to be around 27? Or is it 28 now?
viveks86
Member
Still 27 it seems. Hopefully the DRAM situation sorts itself out by then.
I know others will disagree but as someone who likes the latest tech and is no way bias towards tech (high spec PC, ps5 pro, switch 2, steam deck), the Pro is a big upgrade over the base if you care about IQ and framerate. I don't regret mine one bit.
Crayon
Member
I have a 9070xt (stock settings) and it can do cyberpunk "4k", 60fps, path tracing at ~260w. That is with really aggressive scaling that imo gets the iq a little lower than would be acceptable for a ps6 version. I'm doing that setting just because I want to do pt with one of the few games that support it right now. The ultra rt setting with less scaling would be a better balance if I wasn't playing it this way for the novelty.
I don't know how a 9070xt will compare to a conservatively designed ps6, but you know, just my example for what it's worth.
I don't know how a 9070xt will compare to a conservatively designed ps6, but you know, just my example for what it's worth.
In Path Tracing PS6 will be faster than 9070 XT.
winjer
Gold Member
On a side note, considering the PS6 should use Zen6.
AMD Zen 6 Architecture Surfaces With 8-Wide Dispatch and 512-Bit Vector Support
Felessan
Member
Yeah, yeah, some PC crowd coping - "No difference because I choose not to see it"
Most do though, console optimized games are night and day different from PC-first ones where 1 min loading is a norm
It's not off-the-shelf. You are fucking brainless if you believe so. Sony spend billions on R&D - it's just customization of silicon is kinda expensive.
Technology is mature so you can deviate only so much from mainline path (and mainline path is an average of all industry efforts, consoles included, not just PC as PCMR bros believes) before costs baloons over the top, it's not 90's or early 00's. Still doesn't make it "off-the-shelf" - Sony do a lot of customization and pour a lot of money into it.
Microsoft introduced Direct Storage years ago. Practically no one use it.
It's SO CONVINIENT to blame MS, but in practice it's developers who opt not to go Doom path with "NVME mandatory" (as it cut out most of PC playerbase)
The reason why common tech is lagging behind (not API, API is often fine, just not widely used) - is that PC is like 10% quite good PC spec and 90% is shitty entry level cheap stuff. Games opt for latter and that cheap stuff just not compatible with all that fancy new tech stuff and APIs.
Because what, like 1% of PC users have nvme?
Go check PC games requirements - most, like completely dominant most have "SSD (not nvme, good ol' shitty speed SSD) ~recommended~"
Who will put efforts into things that only matters for 1% - it waste of time and resources
PCMR is nerds in this regards - they thinks they matter but in reality they left to rot in a dark corner and mass market is just vast pile of shit configurations everyone make games to. Sometimes this corner get a bone, but it's always something that are easy to sell, i.e. a super fancy picture scaled off GPU (and Nvidia often pays for this).
Felessan
Member
PS5 cut some of vector support
PS6 should do it too. It's just pointless if you have properly designed hardware - GPU do vector operations hundred times better.
winjer
Gold Member
If you compare the worst optimized games on a platform, to the best on another platform, of course the second one will always win.
Regardless, there are plenty of well optimized games on Pc and on consoles. And plenty of turds to pick from.
It is off the shelf. It's basically IP blocks that AMD has for their CPUs and GPUs, and Sony picks what they want.
Yes, Sony requests a few custom blocks here and there. But over 90% are blocks that can be found on PC hardware.
The real differentiator is the software. That is where Sony's efforts truly shine.
So you don't even understand what the native NVME driver is and what it does. Otherwise, you would not even bring up Direct Storage, because although these techs are related, they are not the same.
Just for your consideration, Linux has had a native NVME driver for 15 years. That is how much Microsoft is lagging behind.
And you can bet that the PS5 also has a native NVME driver. All the while, Microsoft is using a SCSI driver stack, as if it's the 90's.
Yes, most modern PCs have NVME's. From laptops to desktops, they are extremely common. So no, it's not just 1%. It's probably over 70%.
And yet, they are all working as if they are juiced up Sata drives, because Microsoft can' be bothered to make a driver stack that is native for NVME's.
Dude, you missed the important part: 8-wide dispatch.
I even quoted that part from the article, specifically because it is bound to be the most impactful for Zen6.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
The front end is really strong there, max bandwidth of instructions from the Op cache before macro-op fusion is quite high and I really really like how they added a lot more performance counters and debug probes for devs to see how the core performs and bottlenecks in their code running on one of the HW threads in each core.On a side note, considering the PS6 should use Zen6.
AMD Zen 6 Architecture Surfaces With 8-Wide Dispatch and 512-Bit Vector Support
I do expect that Zen6c and Sony's customisation requests will simplify the vector / FP execution like they did for PS5's Zen 2 custom cores, although I think some of the AI oriented processing might make sense on the CPU / NPU for latency sensitive system level AI workloads while the GPU uses it for upscaling, RT denoising, decompression, etc…
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BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
1%?
What year are your talking points from? NVMEs are cheap and more widely available than old SSDs.
LordOfChaos
Member
So taking it that the PS Portable takes "low power mode" PS5 base power to go
The base PS5 itself seems like it may well be supported for longer than even the PS4, and that continued to get most exclusives, if something is made to support the Portable the PS5 is right there and a bit better in full power mode
So long as we keep getting mostly 60fps versions, idk if I'm going to be in that much of a rush to move to PS6. I don't even know why I rushed to PS5 with less than 1000 hours on it, but the 60fps is nice and many PS4 versions being 30 is hard to go back to, so worth it enough I guess.
Unless the PS6 just dramatically changes how games work with giant NPUs being near mandatory for game changing AI, but we'll see.
The base PS5 itself seems like it may well be supported for longer than even the PS4, and that continued to get most exclusives, if something is made to support the Portable the PS5 is right there and a bit better in full power mode
So long as we keep getting mostly 60fps versions, idk if I'm going to be in that much of a rush to move to PS6. I don't even know why I rushed to PS5 with less than 1000 hours on it, but the 60fps is nice and many PS4 versions being 30 is hard to go back to, so worth it enough I guess.
Unless the PS6 just dramatically changes how games work with giant NPUs being near mandatory for game changing AI, but we'll see.
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Zathalus
Member
lol. Lmao even. I can't decide what is funnier, 1% of PC users use NVMe while in reality NVMe has outsold regular SSD for half a decade now, 75%-90% of drives sold this year for the consumer PC market are NVMe and regular SSDs are actually being discontinued in the consumer PC space from some manufactures, or that you think that only 10% of gaming PCs are "quite good" when almost 50% of the Steam survey is PS5 level or better (or the fact that Nvidia and AMD litterally ship tens of millions of dedicated graphics cards per year for the home consumer market alone). CPUs are even more lopsided, probably 70%+ is better than PS5 spec there, considering a sub $200 CPU from almost 7 years ago is the equivalent. Nah, the funniest is probably the claim that PC-first games have one minute loading times as the norm, which is so utterly easy to disprove.
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Zen5 was already 8-wide dispatch and 512-bit Vectors are supported since Zen4On a side note, considering the PS6 should use Zen6.
AMD Zen 6 Architecture Surfaces With 8-Wide Dispatch and 512-Bit Vector Support
The actual changes that were confirmed is the new distributed integer scheduler and support for FP16 and BMM
Bojji
Gold Member
Even not talking about PC first games, SM2 was optimized for PS5 I/O, hardware decompression, API etc. yet is loads quick as fuck on PC:
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memoryman3
Member
This seamless loading on PC came at a cost. Spiderman 2 was brutal on the CPU and GPU when it first launched.
Zathalus
Member
He says PC-first games, so I'd assume that doesn't count. The thing is games that are PC exclusive, or PC-first like Where Winds Meet, Alan Wake 2, or Counter-Strike 2 are all well under ten seconds. Some games like MS Flight Simulator have long load times, but that is on every platform and has got bugger all to do with the SSD or I/O.
Yeah, but the game got 10 patches to improve everything because it launched in an extremely sorry state. It's still quite demanding, but nowhere near as bad as that video.
Bojji
Gold Member
But SM1 and Ratchet were the same. SM2 port was quite bad but they released tons of patches and it's decent now.
Yeah with the PS6 portable I think PS5 will be able to run most games for most of the next gen. But surely the PS6 with RT and AI upscaling will provide a distinctive improvement
kevboard
Member
the low power mode is there to give the handheld a way to be backwards compatible, because it doesn't have enough raw power to actually run PS5 games normally.
like how the Xbox Series S isn't powerful enough to run Xbox One X versions of games, so it runs base Xbox One versions.
it will have more modern hardware that outclasses the PS5 in some ways. like better RT hardware, ML Acceleration, mesh shaders etc.
so actually optimised games on it that are true native apps and not back compatible apps, will get more out of the hardware than those low power modes.
but it will indeed keep the lower end target low enough for the PS5 to be pretty easy to port to for a very long time.
which is why I predict that the next cross gen period is gonna be essentially endless. the PS5 will be the Xbox Series S of the PS6 in a way.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Let's hope, if that is the case, that this is The generation where RT can be considered default and we get as baseline for PS6 and PS6Portable lighting solutions like DOOM: The Dark Ages and Indiana Jones and the Great Circle which are easier to scale upwards where you have much faster RT capabilities (PS5 handles base RT lighting, PS6 goes for a path traced solution taking advantage of AI for scaling, ray reconstruction, etc…).
FalconPunch
Member
Which pc? What are it's specs? There are lots of pcs where that load time is not possible.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Surely any PC built in 2020 for $500
.Insomniac did say though that the problem for them was the way their games and engines were built, they went from not enough I/O bandwidth and low latency to more than they could handle. Still that was the point of the console, to remove a bottleneck and make both very low initial loading times as well as plenty on demand data streaming possible on cheap HW.
On top of the HW being cheaper than PCs, when people compare consoles to PCs they seldom use similar CPUs (with the same allocation 6-6.5 lower power Zen 2 cores dedicated to the game vs Zen 4 / Zen 5 cores in their X3D variant maybe. The point of the I/O processor complex and its HW is also to lower main RAM requirements (less buffering of future data) and reduce CPU overhead. Not sure why people have a hard on against this, but often it is the same group of people that lives in 5080 + X3D processors as default for most gamers lala land.
Zathalus
Member
I tested on my MSI Claw 8 AI+, great handheld but probably less powerful than 90% of the PCs on Steam. Loads in ~6 seconds.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
32 GB of RAM, newer architecture overall compared to Zen 2 (peak frequency close to 4.8 GHz), and a fast Gen4 SSD… less powerful than 90% of PCs on Steam
?!? Mmmh…
Zathalus
Member
32GB of shared RAM and the CPU is nowhere near 4.8Ghz, even at max TDP. It averages around 1.8-2Ghz. The CPU is also 4 high performance cores and 4 efficiency cores that are slower. No multithreading either. It only has 136.5GB/s of memory bandwidth shared again by the CPU and GPU. The GPU maxes out at 4 TF.32 GB of RAM, newer architecture overall compared to Zen 2 (peak frequency close to 4.8 GHz), and a fast Gen4 SSD… less powerful than 90% of PCs on Steam
So yes, 90% of PCs on Steam would be more powerful.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
This is comparing the CPU in that PC handheld with a Zen 2 CPU with a similar frequency as the PS5 SoC (a bit higher but close enough).
Still, I would want to see benchmarks using resolutions that make sense for each device before taking your faster than 90% Steam PC comment to heart without many pinches of salt.
Steam HW survey 2025: https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam (it would be fairer to PS5's design to check the 90% specs "group" in 2020/2021 though to judge the customisations in PS5's HW as far as their effectiveness goes).
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Zathalus
Member
Yes, the CPU is nice and powerful as long as you don't stress the GPU. You can dedicate most of that power budget to the CPU. Allowing it to clock 4Ghz+. This is not what happens during gaming. The TDP needs to be balanced between the GPU and CPU requirements of the SoC. Hence during demanding games the CPU drops under 2Ghz. So cut those scores in half, if not more.
This is comparing the CPU in that PC handheld with a Zen 2 CPU with a similar frequency as the PS5 SoC (a bit higher but close enough).
Zathalus
Member
It's pretty obvious, isn't it? An 8 core (no HT) CPU with half of those cores being efficiency ones, clocked at ~2Ghz would be slower than even a 3600, or hell a 2700x. Not to mention the rather anemic memory bandwidth and a GPU that is beaten by the almost 10-year-old Radeon RX 470. Just looking at the survey, 90% was maybe a touch too high, the real number is 88% (just looking at GPUs). Round it down to 85% if you must, that is still the vast majority of PC players. And I doubt somebody with a 750ti from over a decade ago is playing Spider-Man 2 on PC.
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