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Monitoring the situation in Iran

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It wouldn't say it's lies. But there's a whole lot of truth stretching and hyperbole there. Just like every other administration since I can remember, since I was born. You only get their truth.
I don't watch US news channels to get a specific administrations truth. I'm sorry but claiming Iran had tomahawks and bombed itself was a complete lie not truth stretching or hyperbole. Same with his other lies like his past claims about inflation/prices, the unabomber story, etc. He just straight up lies sometimes, with a straight face. Some of them are trivial lies but some of them like his tomahawk story or inflation are not. Don't normalise these types of lies from government. They're not normal lies. Soon enough you'd be numb to them like the world seems to be to other things already.
 
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Our congress has been useless for decades. They gave up war powers to our executive branch for a reason. Much easier to heckle from the peanut gallery than actually do your fucking job. Much easier to do insider trading. This is both sides btw.
It might be the both sides but GOP is clinging more to "norms and traditions" than democrats.
 
I don't watch US news channels to get a specific administrations truth. I'm sorry but claiming Iran had tomahawks and bombed itself was a complete lie not truth stretching or hyperbole. Same with his other lies like his past claims about inflation/prices, the unabomber story, etc. He just straight up lies sometimes, with a straight face. Some of them are trivial lies but some of them like his tomahawk story or inflation are not. Don't normalise these types of lies from government. They're not normal. Soon enough you'd be numb to them like the world seems to be to other things already.

Just had to stop there. Not that it would've made a difference. Because both would've lied to fit their narrative.
 
This one's an excellent read. Here's a snippet.

Article:
The results of the U.S. intelligence analysis were shared the following day, Feb. 12, in another meeting for only American officials in the Situation Room. Before Mr. Trump arrived, two senior intelligence officials briefed the president's inner circle.

The intelligence officials had deep expertise in U.S. military capabilities, and they knew the Iranian system and its players inside out. They had broken down Mr. Netanyahu's presentation into four parts. First was decapitation — killing the ayatollah. Second was crippling Iran's capacity to project power and threaten its neighbors. Third was a popular uprising inside Iran. And fourth was regime change, with a secular leader installed to govern the country.

The U.S. officials assessed that the first two objectives were achievable with American intelligence and military power. They assessed that the third and fourth parts of Mr. Netanyahu's pitch, which included the possibility of the Kurds mounting a ground invasion of Iran, were detached from reality.

When Mr. Trump joined the meeting, Mr. Ratcliffe briefed him on the assessment. The C.I.A. director used one word to describe the Israeli prime minister's regime change scenarios: "farcical."

At that point, Mr. Rubio cut in. "In other words, it's bullshit," he said.

Mr. Ratcliffe added that given the unpredictability of events in any conflict, regime change could happen, but it should not be considered an achievable objective.

Several others jumped in, including Mr. Vance, just back from Azerbaijan, who also expressed strong skepticism about the prospect of regime change.

The president then turned to General Caine. "General, what do you think?"

General Caine replied: "Sir, this is, in my experience, standard operating procedure for the Israelis. They oversell, and their plans are not always well-developed. They know they need us, and that's why they're hard-selling."

Mr. Trump quickly weighed the assessment. Regime change, he said, would be "their problem." It was unclear whether he was referring to the Israelis or the Iranian people. But the bottom line was that his decision on whether to go to war against Iran would not hinge on whether Parts 3 and 4 of Mr. Netanyahu's presentation were achievable.

Mr. Trump appeared to remain very interested in accomplishing Parts 1 and 2: killing the ayatollah and Iran's top leaders and dismantling the Iranian military.

General Caine — the man Mr. Trump liked to refer to as "Razin' Caine" — had impressed the president years earlier by telling him the Islamic State could be defeated far more quickly than others had projected. Mr. Trump rewarded that confidence by elevating the general, who had been an Air Force fighter pilot, to be his top military adviser. General Caine was not a political loyalist, and he had serious concerns about a war with Iran. But he was very cautious in the way he presented his views to the president.

As the small team of advisers who were looped into the plans deliberated over the following days, General Caine shared with Mr. Trump and others the alarming military assessment that a major campaign against Iran would drastically deplete stockpiles of American weaponry, including missile interceptors, whose supply had been strained after years of support for Ukraine and Israel. General Caine saw no clear path to quickly replenishing these stockpiles.

He also flagged the enormous difficulty of securing the Strait of Hormuz and the risks of Iran blocking it. Mr. Trump had dismissed that possibility on the assumption that the regime would capitulate before it came to that. The president appeared to think it would be a very quick war — an impression that had been reinforced by the tepid response to the U.S. bombing of Iran's nuclear facilities in June.

General Caine's role in the lead-up to the war captured a classic tension between military counsel and presidential decision-making. So persistent was the chairman in not taking a stand — repeating that it was not his role to tell the president what to do, but rather to present options along with potential risks and possible second- and third-order consequences — that he could appear to some of those listening to be arguing all sides of an issue simultaneously.

He would constantly ask, "And then what?" But Mr. Trump would often seem to hear only what he wanted to hear.

General Caine differed in almost every way from a prior chairman, Gen. Mark A. Milley, who had argued vociferously with Mr. Trump during his first administration and who saw his role as stopping the president from taking dangerous or reckless actions.

One person familiar with their interactions noted that Mr. Trump had a habit of confusing tactical advice from General Caine with strategic counsel. In practice, that meant the general might warn in one breath about the difficulties of one aspect of the operation, then in the next note that the United States had an essentially unlimited supply of cheap, precision-guided bombs and could strike Iran for weeks once it achieved air superiority.

To the chairman, these were separate observations. But Mr. Trump appeared to think that the second most likely canceled out the first.

At no point during the deliberations did the chairman directly tell the president that war with Iran was a terrible idea — though some of General Caine's colleagues believed that was exactly what he thought.

Much more to read, but this was the section that was most interesting to me.

Maduro capture got all over their heads for sure.

They clearly didn't plan out past initial bombings.
 
USA (or any other country) didn't do shit for Ukraine in the first days of war, they were on their own.

If Putin was right, this war would have ended in February 2022. You may be right that USA could take Greenland (duh) and maybe even Canada by force, but I don't think it would be as easy as some people think.

There are many examples where super mighty and powerful countries lost to small enemies, like Vietnam for USA, Afghanistan (for Soviet Union, British Empire and USA) or Arab countries vs. Israel.

Right now "weak" Ukraine is holding back against "mighty" Russia. Wars are much more complicated than some people think, just looking at numbers of military equipment and soldiers is not enough.

The Ukraine War and this Iran War is surely making China think twice before attacking Taiwan - that's for sure.
 
One interesting thing with the whole Iran situation is that the troops haven't left and still coming. You don't move the troops unless you plan to use them.

 
New Schizo post just dropped:

NATO WASN'T THERE WHEN WE NEEDED THEM, AND THEY WON'T BE THERE IF WE NEED THEM AGAIN. REMEMBER GREENLAND, THAT BIG, POORLY RUN, PIECE OF ICE!!! President DJT
 
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Maduro capture got all over their heads for sure.

They clearly didn't plan out past initial bombings.
I'll say this much. I have a more positive perspective on Vance than I did before. Seems the majority of the administration's staff were against doing strikes, with Hegseth being the only notable one who was all-in. It's also interesting that Tucker Carlson directly warned Trump that a war with Iran would destroy his Presidency.
 
War will flare up again? Why yes it will. I'm not a complete fan of this as it is. This regime(or w/e that's left) has no intentions of following through.
 
Give me a break. The closure of the strait was a direct result of the United States and Israel preemptively attacking Iran without so much as notifying any of their European Allies. Why should Europe suddenly be obligated to clean up the mess the United States and Israel makes? NATO is a defensive alliance, no single member nation can start a war and then drag NATO along for the ride simply because they're part of NATO. That's never been how it works.

Because threatening to destroy merchant ships under international flag is technically an act of war.
The reasons why they chose that action was/is immaterial.

They expanded the conflict, and their aggression should have been reciprocated.

The fact that the EU is telling Trump to piss off is the exact opposite of weakness.

Most Europeans are telling the EU to piss off. As an institution its popularity is at a historic low across the bloc. Right wing populist, and typically highly nationalist, parties are knocking at the doors of power all across Europe and the UK. And their disposition to Trump's policies is very different to those of the Eurocrats.

Whats most significant is that these parties/coalitions are hanging onto power by a thread, and further economic pain is just pushing them further underwater as it exposes the catastrophic failure of policies like net zero and rapid deindustrialization.

The key point you are failing to grasp is that the expectation for the US to solve a problem, and not their sovereign governments, demonstrates that they are bit-part players on the world stage. That they are weak and dependent - which plays into the rhetoric of the same right-wing populists and further empowers them.
 
War will flare up again? Why yes it will. I'm not a complete fan of this as it is. This regime(or w/e that's left) has no intentions of following through.
I think too that it will start again but it won't be the same this time. There is just too much equipment in the region for nothing to happen.
 
Dear God, we didn't need NATO. IF that tweet is true. Which is sad to say, what is true and isn't.

Sadly it is true.

DqSOzsD.png


He's beyond unhinged lately
 
I think too that it will start again but it won't be the same this time. There is just too much equipment in the region for nothing to happen.

Hopefully, we have more equipment this time. A 1/3 of our shit was in maintenance. That 1/3rd was our combat ships. If the world can't do it, we'll have to.
 
Well, my quote turned on its ass like that quote, I guess. If all that's true, then we need to start the 25th. If it's true. IF
 
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Because threatening to destroy merchant ships under international flag is technically an act of war.
The reasons why they chose that action was/is immaterial.

They expanded the conflict, and their aggression should have been reciprocated.



Most Europeans are telling the EU to piss off. As an institution its popularity is at a historic low across the bloc. Right wing populist, and typically highly nationalist, parties are knocking at the doors of power all across Europe and the UK. And their disposition to Trump's policies is very different to those of the Eurocrats.

Whats most significant is that these parties/coalitions are hanging onto power by a thread, and further economic pain is just pushing them further underwater as it exposes the catastrophic failure of policies like net zero and rapid deindustrialization.

The key point you are failing to grasp is that the expectation for the US to solve a problem, and not their sovereign governments, demonstrates that they are bit-part players on the world stage. That they are weak and dependent - which plays into the rhetoric of the same right-wing populists and further empowers them.

The Trump admin is the antidote that mainstream centre-right and centre-left leaning governments in Europe need for right wing populism.
 
Just had to stop there. Not that it would've made a difference. Because both would've lied to fit their narrative.
The point is that you're making this about party politics when I couldn't care less about that at all. I'm not influenced by US media.

It's the fact that you're trying to make your government straight up lying to you seem normal. Just "hyperbole" or "truth stretching". "I did not have sexual relations" is a straight up lie, "we think Iran bombed its own school with a tomahawk" another straight up lie. I don't care what political party they're from, but stop trying to gaslight people into thinking this is normal or somehow considered just run of the mill hyperbole. It's not.
 
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Well, to be fair MAGA is populism. Unless I misunderstood your quote.
The point is that MAGA is so toxic overseas that any political movement seen to be aligned with it is going to be fighting an uphill battle. We saw it in Canada with the collapse of the Conservative vote after the Trump election, and similar stories will play out in the rest of the world. Victor Orban is likely gone in Hungary fairly soon, for example.
 
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The point is that you're making this about party politics when I couldn't care less about that at all. I'm not influenced by US media.

It's the fact that you're trying to make your government straight up lying to you seem normal. Just "hyperbole" or "truth stretching". "I did not have sexual relations" is a straight up lie, "we think Iran bombed its own school with a tomahawk" another straight up lie. I don't care what political party they're from, but stop trying to gaslight people into thinking this is normal or somehow considered just run of the mill hyperbole. It's not.

I'm not influenced by American media or non American media. As far your diabrebe against our government? Well, I agree. More Americans hate our government than Europeans. As hard as that is to believe.
 
The point is that MAGA is so toxic overseas that any political movement seen to be aligned with it is going to be fighting an uphill battle. We saw it in Canada with the collapse of the Conservative vote after the Trump election, and similar stories will play out in the rest of the world. Victor Orban is likely gone in Hungary fairly soon, for example.

Honestly, I couldn't give a rat's ass how toxic it is overseas. If it becomes this toxic, then at half of the problem is with y'all, not us.
 
The point is that MAGA is so toxic overseas that any political movement seen to be aligned with it is going to be fighting an uphill battle. We saw it in Canada with the collapse of the Conservative vote after the Trump election, and similar stories will play out in the rest of the world. Victor Orban is likely gone in Hungary fairly soon, for example.
Issue with Orban is that EU has invested too much into that another candidate (it is going to be like Romainian election) but also he overstayed his welcome being in power far too long. EU wants to consolidate power as much as possible right now.

The problem with the west is that even the right wing parties are at best Romney GOP that wants to feel important but won't achieve much in reality when gaining power. We saw it with Meloni for example where the right wing rhetoric led to nowhere. Canadian right wing would not be no different from Carney where it would exactly the same tune. Canadian right wing are probably also closer to Paul Ryan or Pence GOP. Like for example LePen in France while being right wing and arrested by Macron's government, started to cry about the international law regarding Iran. These people are like GOP - they want to be part of the big pants club.
 
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Issue with Orban is that EU has invested too much into that another candidate (it is going to be like Romainian election) but also he overstayed his welcome being in power far too long. EU wants to consolidate power as much as possible right now.

The problem with the west is that even the right wing parties are at best Romney GOP that wants to feel important but won't achieve much in reality when gaining power. We saw it with Meloni for example where the right wing rhetoric led to nowhere.
Meloni is a let down. Nothing but hot air.

Talks tough on immigration but done zero. Heard it for 14 years of conservatives in the UK and they quadrupled the immigration.
 
Meloni is a let down. Nothing but hot air.

Talks tough on immigration but done zero. Heard it for 14 years of conservatives in the UK and they quadrupled the immigration.
I remember in Italy there was another guy who was considering right wing and he achieved nothing. Tories in UK are a disaster - they are basically RINOs.
 
Issue with Orban is that EU has invested too much into that another candidate

And that Orban is Putin's puppet, or rather his 'mouse'.


Orbán offered his support to Putin, likening his assistance to that of a mouse helping a lion in a well-known Hungarian fable, according to a phone conversation transcript obtained by news agency Bloomberg.


"Yesterday, our friendship reached such heights that I am willing to help in any way I can," Orbán reportedly said, adding: "I am at your disposal for any matter where I can help."
 
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Issue with Orban is that EU has invested too much into that another candidate (it is going to be like Romainian election) but also he overstayed his welcome being in power far too long. EU wants to consolidate power as much as possible right now.

The problem with the west is that even the right wing parties are at best Romney GOP that wants to feel important but won't achieve much in reality when gaining power. We saw it with Meloni for example where the right wing rhetoric led to nowhere. Canadian right wing would not be no different from Carney where it would exactly the same tune. Canadian right wing are probably also closer to Paul Ryan or Pence GOP. Like for example LePen in France while being right wing and arrested by Macron's government, started to cry about the international law regarding Iran. These people are like GOP - they want to be part of the big pants club.
The Canadian right wing actually applauded the Iran invasion. As far as the Europeans go, the understand what sells domestically and being aligned with MAGA is no bueno. Orban is an idiot for having Vance stump for him.

But you fucking quoted mine. If a mistake? Fine.
Only to clarify your misunderstanding. The original post you quoted was in response to the other guy.
 
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And that Orban is Putin's puppet, or rather his 'mouse'.

Orban is buying a lot of Russian gas and with constant pressure from EU he has to side with Russia. Hungary is a bit like fiefdom in Europe, old club. Berlusconi was pro-Russia, Schroder was pro-Russia, Sarcozy was too. It is all the same club.

As far as the Europeans go, the understand what sells domestically and being aligned with MAGA is no bueno
Because there is a fundamentally mental disconnect between MAGA and right winger in Europe. Like these groups do not understand each other on a fundamental level. Plus in Europe there is a chronic issue being attached to their past glory.
 
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Orban is buying a lot of Russian gas and with constant pressure from EU he has to side with Russia. Hungary is a bit like fiefdom in Europe, old club. Berlusconi was pro-Russia, Schroder was pro-Russia, Sarcozy was too. It is all the same club.


Because there is a fundamentally mental disconnect between MAGA and right winger in Europe. Like these groups do not understand each other on a fundamental level. Plus in Europe there is a chronic issue being attached to their past glory.

The "right wing" in Europe is pretty far left in America. They're not the proggies, cause they even further left, than the current leftist in Europe. But Overton's window is def shifted when it comes to both of us. I mean AFD in Germany is considered "far right" and they're socialist.
 
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The "right wing" in Europe is pretty far left in America. They're not the proggies, cause they even further left, than the current leftist in Europe. But Overton's window is def shifted when it comes to both of us. I mean AFD in Germany is considered "far right" and they're socialist.
They are not really far left. Maybe closer to Schumer? Because left parties in Europe are basically AOC and co. AfD will be probably closer to american groypers maybe? MAGA would fit nicely with countries who want to be "unapologetically something".
 
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This story is getting wilder by the hour, lol.

Now Trump is proposing a JOINT toll venture for the Strait of Hormuz between the US and Iran.


Trump proposes US-Iran 'joint venture' to charge Hormuz tolls amid 'fragile' ceasefire: 'A beautiful thing'

Trump's remarks mark a significant shift in approach, suggesting potential cooperation with Iran over one of the world's most sensitive maritime chokepoints.
US President Donald Trump on Wednesday said Washington is considering a "joint venture" with Iran to impose tolls on ships passing through the Strait of Hormuz, a critical global energy corridor, following the announcement of a two-week ceasefire between the two countries.

Speaking to ABC News journalist Jonathan Karl, Trump signalled openness to a coordinated arrangement with Tehran. "We're thinking of doing it as a joint venture. It's a way of securing it - also securing it from lots of oth...


 
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This story is getting wilder by the hour, lol.

Now Trump is proposing a JOINT toll venture for the Strait of Hormuz between the US and Iran.






I don't understand why people treat any of these like some facts. It has always been some strange issue with Trump where everything he say is treated like a fact. He is just proposing various ideas and opinions. Like "it would be cool to do that". Did not work out? "Oh well whatever".
 
They are not really far left. Maybe closer to Schumer? Because left parties in Europe are basically AOC and co. AfD will be probably closer to american groypers maybe?

Socialist are far left. Obviously not as far as commies, but not far off on the economic scale. AOC is a socialist, for sure, she's probably around the scale as AFD as far economy goes. Of course, the libertarian and authoritarian scale are different.
 
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This story is getting wilder by the hour, lol.

Now Trump is proposing a JOINT toll venture for the Strait of Hormuz between the US and Iran.







Need to see what this leads to in the end. I think Trump just wants an off-ramp to something he couldn't do. If you're not willing to do it, then don't threaten it. Trump's redline might be more worthless than Obama's. Neither should've threatened it. But here we are.
 
I'm not influenced by American media or non American media. As far your diabrebe against our government? Well, I agree. More Americans hate our government than Europeans. As hard as that is to believe.
I don't have anthing against American government at all, though I do think a lot of the good structure and laws it had is being torn apart from the inside currently. That's not where I'm going with this though. I simply thought you mentioning "all administrations" and "You only get their truth" was alluding to the idea that I'm being influenced by specific ones and pointed out I don't even listen to US media to be influenced by specific parties.

I will call a spade a spade regardless of party or continent. when a government figure tells such a brazen lie I'm not going to be saying "its just hyperbole. That's normal and everybody does it". I agree there are times when its hyperbole but there has been some pretty obvious lies too. That's not normal. That would be a scandal in the past. People are becoming numb to it now though as it's become a weird clown show. Reminds me of that Black Mirror episode "The Waldo Moment".
 
I don't have anthing against American government at all, though I do think a lot of the good structure and laws it had is being torn apart from the inside currently. That's not where I'm going with this though. I simply thought you mentioning "all administrations" and "You only get their truth" was alluding to the idea that I'm being influenced by specific ones and pointed out I don't even listen to US media to be influenced by specific parties.

I will call a spade a spade regardless of party or continent. when a government figure tells such a brazen lie I'm not going to be saying "its just hyperbole. That's normal and everybody does it". I agree there are times when its hyperbole but there has been some pretty obvious lies too. That's not normal. That would be a scandal in the past. People are becoming numb to it now though as it's become a weird clown show. Reminds me of that Black Mirror episode "The Waldo Moment".
Their truth isn't the same as the truth. I'll let the rest of that go.
 
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