Not trying to be contrary, but why is this the case?
Wii U Pro Controller announced - X360pad design, no screen, "for multiplatform games"
- Thread starter chubigans
- Start date
Not trying to be contrary, but why is this the case?
The PC plays many of the same games, so no - you can't just arbitrarily leave it out. If you want the best version of multiplatform titles, that's where they will be most of the time.
Yes you did. Any pointer-based controller will be better at playing games that use a pointer/cursor to function, such as FPS and TPS.
I'm not at all concerned about the mystical "they" and those opinions, I just want something that works well. The asymmetrical layout does.
AgentOtaku
Member
Ergonomics can be revised yes. Just keep those sticks w/ the current resistance they have.
This!
This just makes me happy overall. Now that there are regular controllers, I'm guessing less and less developers will even consider the Wiimote until it's almost completely phased out. Since the tablet basically has all the same functionality as a regular controller, but with a screen, devs only have to create an extra thing for the screen, instead of worrying about shoehorning in lame motion gimmicks, or creating two entirely seperate control types. There will be no split in userbases, as standard controls will likely be the only option in nearly all games again. Win-win-win.
Is that necessarily the case? I prefer the 360 layout because the left stick is in the primary position, as it should be since it is the primary input. I've wondered why I never saw FPS-specific controllers that also moved the right stick to a primary position instead, to replicate that effect. If a closer position benefits the left stick, why wouldn't it be the same for the right stick when it is being used almost as much?
The main problem I could come up with back then was that the bottom face button would be farther than the top one, and the lower button always has higher priority actions than the higher one in dual analog games. Obviously this wouldn't be a problem if that was the standard controller, since that would be reversed by default.
I would also guess that is one of the reasons why they kept the layout of the Pro controller consistent with the Gamepad.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
That's a slight "lose" for some of us. I want to see Skyward Sword successors. Not necessarily Zelda, but more in the "real motion games" department.
Dual Shock is worse for shooters because the sticks are loose and have a much bigger dead zone and the heads are convex and slippery. The fact that they're symmetrical has nothing to do with it. That is an absolutely bizarre leap in logic.
You prefer it that way because it's how it's always been on the Xbox, and the Xbox has pretty much dominated the console FPS since it came out, but there's nothing inherently superior about it. They didn't make the sticks asymmetrical because they decided that would be best for shooters. They made them asymmetrical because they thought the stick should be in the primary position for the left thumb and the buttons should be in the primary position for the right thumb.
Pro Pad has the stick above the buttons because the WiiPad has the stick above the buttons, and I imagine they want to keep the button layout the same across the brand. Stick is above the buttons on the WiiPad because you'd be likely to unintentionally bump it in the more vertically oriented layout if it were below.
WiiU Zelda is a single player exclusive, without a doubt it will be taking full advantage of the GamePad.
jts
...hate me...
Asymmetrical works because most games are asymmetrical most of the time (left analog + face buttons). But you can't have your cake and eat it too. For dual analog control, the Wii U controller seems to be better for it has both in the primary location. Just like the dualshock would be/is ideal for a dpad + face buttons type of game. It's a matter of compromises, and yes the Xbox controller has the most sensible compromise but it's not the be all and end-all layout for all types of games.
I still have yet to play SS, but I'm completely fine with my HD Zelda having regular controls. After playing Dark Souls, and other fighting games, I'm completely happy with those controls.
Quite entertaining to see people going nuts over button placements on a optional 360-like controller :lol
I think people are putting way too much weight on this issue. If you are a good player, you should be capable to get used to every new controller in at least 30 - 60 minutes in my opinion.
And don't forget: eyes will never tell you 100% what's comfortable or not; hands do.
I think people are putting way too much weight on this issue. If you are a good player, you should be capable to get used to every new controller in at least 30 - 60 minutes in my opinion.
And don't forget: eyes will never tell you 100% what's comfortable or not; hands do.
ShadowgeistX
Member
The shape of that controller almost reeks of a lawsuit. I do like the 360 controller so I don't mind this, I just hope the buttons won't be awkward to use in that position.
I'll be happy with a 360-like controller with Nintendo quality though. I don't think I've ever been let down by the build quality of a Nintendo controller, while most of my 360 controllers suffer from either broken sticks, or loose sticks that result in drifting movement while the sticks are in the neutral position.
I'll be happy with a 360-like controller with Nintendo quality though. I don't think I've ever been let down by the build quality of a Nintendo controller, while most of my 360 controllers suffer from either broken sticks, or loose sticks that result in drifting movement while the sticks are in the neutral position.
elongation
Neo Member
Also looks like we'll finally get a rechargeable controller if that port at the top is any indication!
PuppetSlave
Member
Yet your argument for asymmetrical layout is empirical evidence. Sorry but thats still just personal opinion.
Anyway, if there is a market for it, some third party controllers is bound to turn up.
Exactly right. After a few games, you'll adjust to it as you've adjusted to every single controller you've ever used in your life.
I think you're jumping to conclusions here. You're assuming the reason that the Dual Shock was not ideal for you when playing FPS was because the layout was symmetrical. I'd wager that the real reason you didn't like it was because your thumbs were too close together.
What I think is going to suffer on this pro controller is all-digital controls (for the same reason as above). However, I do think this scenario will at least fair a bit better than the DS with FPS because at least you're thumbs don't need to move as much.
Well we'll find out for sure once we get our hands on some and try them out.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
And we won't really know until we use it if this layout feels better.
It could be a complete clusterfuck. It could be a revelation. It could be just a different design.
I can understand what you're talking about. I've been doing another Mass Effect run, and the asymmetrical design of the 360 pad has become very natural feeling. Sony's insistence on the symmetric design has made me interested in what it would feel like in the dominant position. We'll find out.
I ain't hedging bets as of yet.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Well it's not really about it being "fine". Yes, classic 3D Zelda controls "fine"... You are right. Just a regular videogame.
...but Skyward Sword did some amazing things with motion controls on the sword (among many other things), and it was a brand new experience. Really, it was the only hardcore motion control game on the Wii... the only real game to fulfill the original promise of the Wii, which tragically came at the end of the console's life.
It's a loss to gaming potential if developers ignore that Wiimote... But then again, I think we'll see a game or two that uses it on Wii U.
Not true, and if the materials weren't proprietary I would be happy to show you in-depth studies that say otherwise. Unfortunately, I didn't pay for 'em so I can't share 'em. I hope my word is good enough on these boards for you to accept that, and if not, so be it.
Bjoern the Smexy
Member
Exactly this.
We had excuses every generation since the N64.
"The cartridge format is stupid because of no space!"
"The Gamecube Controller's face buttons suck and there are not enough buttons and no clickety click sticks!"
"The Wiimote has not enough buttons!"
"The Wii has no graphics!"
And with the Wii U we already got excuses from "hardcore gamers" like:
"Why should I by a third party game on Wii U when the controls will be exactly the same?"
Whereas we have the EXACT OPPOSITE excuse for any game on the Wii right now.
People can be dumb and this makes me very, very, very sad, especially if these people are among the loudest in the crowd.
I'm guessing Nintendo games will still try to use the Wiimote, at least at first, earlier on, but I hope they also include regular controls, especially so I could play it on the tablet, or play it with the menu screen on the tablet.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Talking about Skyward Sword?
No idea about that one. No idea.
I'd call that someone who wasn't using the Wiimote properly (flailing wildly), or someone with a broken Wiimote.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
It would be foolish to throw PC into the mix. Let's do it anyway though, just for you.
"Why should I buy Skyrim on the WiiU when it runs like a fuckin' dream on PC, has hi-res textures and mods."
See, we really shouldn't compare the PC version to console versions because the difference is so great that the question even becomes pointless.
Also, the Wiimote is far from perfect as a pointing device, sunlight drives the pointer crazy. I have never played an FPS on the Wii but I have used the pointer for Zelda TP, it was ok but more hassle than it was worth. I didn't have to close the curtains when I was playing the Gamecube version of TP.
Talking about Skyward Sword?
No idea about that one. No idea.
I'd call that someone who wasn't using the Wiimote properly (flailing wildly), or someone with a broken Wiimote.
In my ~20 years of gaming I've never been told I wasn't using the controller properly until Skyward Sword.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I mean honestly I'd say the most likely issue people have is just how close together those sticks are. They've always felt fine to me except for that one detail. And isn't it the 360 sticks that have the large dead zones?
I know they are prone to severe drift.
I never liked that excuse either.
Is this a study based on many types of symmetrical controllers, or just the Dual Shock?
Oni Link 666
Member
Who is conducting these studies? Scientists? EA? Microsoft?
nckillthegrimace
Member
The dualshock's and 360's right sticks are in the same place. I don't understand what you're trying to say. Do your thumbs hit each other or something? I guess that could be a problem if you have very big hands or hold the controller strangely. It's true that I don't play every FPS that comes out, but I've played a bunch. I play pretty much every third person shooter, though, and I've never had that problem on either controller.
Fake Edit: People have already said what I just said, but it would be rude not to respond.
I was talking about now, you're talking about later. Miscommunication.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Because it's a BS excuse.
It's not like it's rocket surgery. I'd wager the issue comes in the form of rechargeable batteries. As time goes on they lose charge, you'd be using a consistent charge to use M+. Therefore faulty scientific explanation.
Eh, who cares. We can argue or say stuff, but we really don't have any idea what's going to happen with controls. All I can safely say is that I feel a lot better in the fact that I expect to Nintendo to go back to regular controls. The signs seem to be pointing that way right now, but then again that could change.
Also I love the design of the controller, and I know Nintendo is going to give me something that's comfortable as fuck.
Also I love the design of the controller, and I know Nintendo is going to give me something that's comfortable as fuck.
Glaring oversight on my part.
I must admit though that I essentially grew up with Sony consoles (and Gameboys and an old Genesis) so other controllers with swapped analog positions feel extremely awkward for me.
That's what I thought. I remember seeing that mentioned in some argument about which controller is better awhile back on this forum.
Oni Link 666
Member
They did show a black Gamepad and console in the zombie video.
More than the DS, and that's the extent of the detail I'm going to go into.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I'm speaking from experience on that one.
Charlie M. Shepherd is currently running in circles as I type.
That's right, which leaves the console then.
Thanks, that's all I wanted to know.
StoppedInTracks
Member
Just saw the news.... man.
Isn't this like admitting a triple defeat by Nintendo?
1) they admit Wii U tablet is not ergonomical, not comfortable for long sessions of gameplay (too bulky, too heavy etc.)
2) they admit Wiimote was - pardon the word - a fad (PS Move confirmed that, sadly)
3) they admit 3rd parties won't give a shit about the Wii U tablet and just port games to the Wii U not using any of the tablet's unique functionalities
I'm sorry but 5 minutes after reading the news this is how I see them. Did not read the whole 1000+ posts thread yet!
Isn't this like admitting a triple defeat by Nintendo?
1) they admit Wii U tablet is not ergonomical, not comfortable for long sessions of gameplay (too bulky, too heavy etc.)
2) they admit Wiimote was - pardon the word - a fad (PS Move confirmed that, sadly)
3) they admit 3rd parties won't give a shit about the Wii U tablet and just port games to the Wii U not using any of the tablet's unique functionalities
I'm sorry but 5 minutes after reading the news this is how I see them. Did not read the whole 1000+ posts thread yet!
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Yeah, I know you're not going to, but don't get yourself into legal issues because some of us have insatiable appetites for info.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
You might be right about that early games prediction.
Although Skyward Sword, for example, wouldn't work on a traditional gamepad. All of the enemies and puzzles are designed around the way you move your arms. If it had a traditional control mode, that would be two games in one, not just a toggle of the same game.
I'd call it the same thing as mashing on the analog stick in a general direction and then complaining because you keep falling into pits, unlike a classic d-pad. There's a precision there.. maybe you didn't use it.
If you move your arm directly left, the sword goes directly left.
If you're telling me that the sword didn't go directly left when you did, then you had a broken Wiimote or radio interference or something.
If you're saying you didn't want to move your arm directly left, then that's a different story.
If it didn't work for you, I understand why you wouldn't want it again... but for someone who had no problems... It really sucks for me if they start catering to that!
Dual Shock's issue isn't symmetrical sticks. The Dual Shock's issue, aside from that actual quality of the sticks, is that both analog sticks are located on the most uncomfortable part of the game pad: the bottom half.
Having both analogue sticks on the top half is great. Better than the 360 pad's set up. But the 360 also has the edge in that both your thumbs never both have to go to the bottom half and that'll be an issue when you decide to play a fighting game or 2d platformer on the Wii U.
Having both analogue sticks on the top half is great. Better than the 360 pad's set up. But the 360 also has the edge in that both your thumbs never both have to go to the bottom half and that'll be an issue when you decide to play a fighting game or 2d platformer on the Wii U.
