The move sensor on the Dual Shock seems to imply the eye toy will be packed in as well.
PS4 has 8 GB OF GDDR5 RAM
- Thread starter Log4Girlz
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The move sensor on the Dual Shock seems to imply the eye toy will be packed in as well.
Whiteshirt
Member
We're nerds posting on Neogaf. We're not the main consumer base unless you really want to argue semantics here.
They will see 8GB of RAM. They won't care about the GDDR5 just like how most consumers won't know or care about the Xbox 720's embedded DRAM.
Mass consumers don't give a shit about the type of RAM, they just want a system to do things. End performance and functionality is what they care about, which has nothing to do with the specsheet.
"The box has 8GB of GDDR5" != "Developers will have access to 8GB of GDDR5."
There's a good chance that a big chunk of that 8GB is devoted to system-level features... like, y'know, that "real-time HD video streaming to friends" stuff. (THAT said, there's a good chance Durango's supposed 8GB of DDR3 will have more than a bit used up by system features too...)
There's a good chance that a big chunk of that 8GB is devoted to system-level features... like, y'know, that "real-time HD video streaming to friends" stuff. (THAT said, there's a good chance Durango's supposed 8GB of DDR3 will have more than a bit used up by system features too...)
This will also make the PS4 pretty expensive as well right?
Ah, did that get confirmed? Can't find it here - can you link?
Except none of that is confirmed...
DDR3 is not slow it's just not as fast as GDDR5.
I like your avatar.
PS3 was a costlier venture and it didn't last a full 10 years without a successor.
nope
If you don't know, Sony has custom hardware to take care of the video streaming so as to not eat up memory.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
I think they broke even on the Vita, though. Or at least were close to doing that.
This is such a fucking crazy move by Sony. Great for gamers, possibly disastrous for the company.
It's unified RAM no matter what, part of that RAM is going to be used by the OS at all times.
mmm
Is it not a bandwith chart?
I feel it's clear at this point that Sony is only doing this because they feel they can absolutely include it without taking a huge bath. Otherwise they would've of just stuck with 4GB. They must be getting a great deal, either that or their other components are incredibly cheap.
Broder Salsa
Banned
Oh didn't even think of that, my mistake if it is.
Yes of course this is a marketing stunt... :lol
Just significantly less- like the Vita, I'm guessing?
mhayze
Member
High-end Xeon servers (and LGA 2011 desktops) have quad channel memory that can push <40GB/s. This is double the usual consumer desktop / laptop stuff. We heard 176GB/s, so > 4x the fastest PC system ram you can buy nowadays. PC GPUs, on the other hand, have this
level of speed today.
The PS4 has a single pool of memory, not split into system RAM / GPU RAM - it's all one big pool of RAM that runs at GPU RAM speeds.
GPUs do tend to have more complex memory controllers with higher RAM latencies, which is not an issue for GPUs because they are running a LOT of threads simultaneously, and the instruction queues are ridiculously deep, with not a lot of branches. There may be some hefty cache to mask these latencies for the general purpose computing side of things on the PS4, although cache memory can be very expensive to implement.
orientalNoodle
Banned
why would MS has to match the GDDR5? Their solution is solid. It is all about execution and price point of the system. Something Sony is not so good at. Just look at Vita.
What I'm hoping both Sony and Microsoft do is reserve a higher amount of RAM for the OS and let the console dynamically dip into the reserved RAM when it wants to.
That way in the future they aren't stuck with a small amount of RAM for the OS that limits the OS.
SimpleGamer
Member
Sony gives no fucks about the competition
unless they realised that they couldn't achieve what they wanted with 4gigs and have late in the day had to bet the house on 8!
Brad Grenz
Member
How much RAM do you think an iPhone uses to encode and save HD video with its camera? Thanks to the hardware encoding chip, very, very little. If a phone with only 512MB of RAM total can manages, there's no reason to believe it can't be accomplished in the reserved 512MB on PS4.
So I am sure this has been asked and explained, but it is just too big of a thread for me to hunt down the answers. How much would the high speed RAM cost Sony per a console today? And what is the major difference between what the slow RAM we are anticipating for the 720 and the fast RAM of the PS4? Give it to me in gaming terms instead of funky math terms. Does it mean more things on the screen, does it mean better image quality? I would like to see a thread discussing RAM unto itself, because I remember the old PC days where I bought like 4 megs for a ridiculous price. I have lost touch since then.
When did I say it couldn't all I said is that no matter what it will be using part of that RAM at all times to run the OS.
Have we been given a confirmation on the amount of RAM that is reserved for the OS on the PS4?
Also you can't compare a mobile OS with a console OS, let alone iOS against a Sony made OS.
Snapshot King
Member
The original is to scale. He added enough ram to make it 8 gigs of DDR3 on the left, Durangos rumoured ram, in order to compare it. The scale is most likely based off transfer rates for the memory.
They won't even see 8GB of RAM. Or at least, they won't process it for more than two seconds, probably thinking nothing more than "oh hey my PC also has that RAM stuff." What will sell the system for the most part are the features and the software. The underlying tech will be trivial to the majority of consumers relative to Sony simply trumpeting the console's hardware in more of a broad fashion ("it's state of the art!") and feeding people a barrage of shiny graphics.
Brad Grenz
Member
It means better performance, higher resolutions, more details, more variety and larger draw distances.
In terms of cost it is hard to say. Based on 3 year old figures you might assume it's in the $150 range for that much GDDR5, but given the introduction of higher density chips and general improvements in RAM prices over time, something around $100 is very possible.
In terms of cost it is hard to say. Based on 3 year old figures you might assume it's in the $150 range for that much GDDR5, but given the introduction of higher density chips and general improvements in RAM prices over time, something around $100 is very possible.
Why would this be needed? What gamers want are games that push the tech, not shitty Windows 8 on their gaming console.
Definitely not no. Remember XBox3 has 32MB of high bandwidth very low latency memory embedded into the GPU, that'll make a big difference. The gap is still significantly larger than 360 vs PS3 though overall (not just bandwidth but GPU performance and RAM amount). But nowhere near 1080p/60 vs 720p/60. Maybe not to far away from 1080p/60 vs 1080p/30, though the amount of RAM for games should also allow for even better textures than Xbox3.
Anyway, wasnt expecting this, they really aee insane. The sheer number of chips on the motherboard must be eye watering.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
PS3 had GDDR3, not DDR3. It was 256 GDDR3 + 256 XDR.
dragonflys545
Member
4 jobs give or take. lol
So would the benefits only exist if a game was installed on the system?
For one Windows 8 is not shitty by any means and two Windows 8 doesn't even use 1 GB let alone 2 GB.
It's needed if they want to allow you to have multiple Apps running at once on the operating systems.
All those social features that they showed off yesterday are ran by the OS and that uses RAM.
Same reason Tablets and Phones are pushing 1GB or more in RAM, the stock OS doesn't need that much to run but it makes it more versatile in running multiple apps at once.
Forget about "casual" gamer/consumers
I always feel like all this is wasted on people who will never even start to appreciate the level of technology between their hands :/
It is us who really matter, the people that DO understand what all that means and appreciate it all!
Thank you Sony,,,
Next-Gen, PS4!
Brad Grenz
Member
No, you just insinuated there would be a significant cost to downplay a percieved PS4 advantage.
Nope, just the same rumors and leaks that have thus far proven incredibly reliable.
Of course I can. There's nothing special about mobile OSes. iOS and Android are both Unix derivatives, just like the PS3 and Vita OS. It's also clear from the PS4 feature set it will be uses similar concepts and techniques for suspending applications and other features that are inspired directly by mobile OSes. And even if it wasn't, the fact that iOS is for mobile devices has no bearing on the technical requirements for real-time HD video capture and compression. To suggest otherwise is pure ignorance.
They doubled the RAM. We can get both, minus the shitty part.
mhayze
Member
I think it should be in the range of $120, but that's based on Taiwanese GPU card manufacturer prices recently. In the volumes that Sony would buy around launch time, with some time to ramp manufacturing, on a newer process node it could be half or even less.
I never insinuated it would be a huge cost I was merely saying that the OS is going to use part of the unified RAM at all times. I'm not even talking about video capture or compression I'm talking about the OS altogether.
iOS was built from the ground up as a phone OS and it's built to run Apps and play media. We do not know enough about the OS on PS4 or Xbox 720 to properly compare them to iOS or Android.
Higher reservation of RAM for the OS is not a bad thing as a low reservation of RAM clearly limited what the Xbox 360 and PS3 could do. There is no reason to think that games cannot dip into the reserved RAM while the game is running.
dafuq?
archnemesis
Member
It's pricey, but not super expensive. Take the numbers below with a grain of salt. Prices changes all the time and I'm sure Sony are getting a decent deal since they deal with larger volumes.
Has GDDR5 chip density actually changed recently though? Because it was nearly $200 for 8GB of GDDR5 a year or so ago. Also theres the added cost from motherboard complexity.
This is great for gamers who long for a high spec console. But it seems like yet another massive financial risk from Sony. Certainly makes things interesting though !
Brad Grenz
Member
iOS wasn't even built from the ground up. It was based on the OSX kernel. And it wasn't built to run Apps. The first few versions couldn't do that. And as anyone who has Jailbroken their iPhone knows, it's just unix underneath everything. There is no remarkable capacity it possesses to invalidate my point, that having a hardware h.264 encoder makes compressing and saving video a very low-overhead prospect.
Donnie said:
Yes, 4gb chips are just becoming available. It means you can do 8GB with 16 chips in clamshell mode where each chip is paired with a second on opposite sides of the motherboard.
dammit Sony!
It can't really be that much of an advantage... can it?
*desperately trying not to get too impressed*
It's such a shame that of all this advantages that the PS4 may end up having, the most important one IMO (AI) will never be fully realized outside first party games, since no third party dev. in the world will code more advanced AI mechanics for the PS4 version of it's multiplatform game.