SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion
- Thread starter thomasmahler
- Start date
IIRC, in one of the voxaphones she mentions that she pulled him through a tear. I don't remember if she outright says that they are the same, but I think that's how they imply it.
pretty much...and some other instances throughout the narrative as well.
It's a very deep game that honestly warrants a thorough second playthrough for anyone who wants to the most out of this game. That's what i'm currently doing.
Ah good. I'm not going crazy then.
Just got to get my head around the cyclical nature of time. At first was getting a 12 Monkeys/Butterfly Effect vibe where no matter what was happening it was only going to play into fates hands. Everything happens for a reasons and so on. Though now not quite sure what to think.
Though there's a lot of H.G. Wells influences here and there.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
a man, a lighthouse, a... something.
who the guy murdered in the lighthouse was.
how time advanced 6 months in pursuing elizibeth.
how in one universe elizibeth aged to 70 and lit up new york (where was booker in that one?).
what old liz's note said.
if there was any significance to the pendants.
where some posters are deriving the colombia was delusion stuff and daisy fitzroy was liz's midwife.
letece in general.
why they could not have literally just gone to paris.
ill go see if i can find some interesting voxophones.
Remachinate
Member
There's a series of voxaphones that establish their contact and eventual meeting. In the first, she talks about communicating with him across universes by manipulating the quantum particles observable by both universes. There's another talking about developing tear technology using Comstock's money so she can bring him through. Finally, there's a voxaphone discussing his physical reaction to being brought across universes. I don't remember which one, but there's one in which she explicitly says the only thing separating them is the Y chromosome.
It's clear that he came from a tear yeah
"I should know, I lived it"
but it could be that he's a brother that only existed on another dimension or whatever, but that wouldnt explain why she'd just steal it from her other self, for example
I think they're the same person
At first I thought they were the same. But now that I think about it, didn't her brother have a different, albeit similar, field of study than she did? I remember that from one of those movie-things.
During banter near the end they mention how they finish each others sentences, and with good reason - something along those lines, at least.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
I didn't call the daughter thing, but I really had the Booker/Comstock thing nailed back in December. I thought the old Comstock looked suspiciously like Booker and had no idea why he underwent such a radical redesign other than they were trying to protect something about the character.
Original:
i would have preferred they kept this, would have made the ending more aha! since the age differential leads to more stuff having to be figured out.
Ah that's right, I remember this. This is probably the best indicator that they are the same person.
doesnt matter, it was there to scare him
in that universe Booker never came and she became the new comstock
it had the notes to control the song bird so she could destroy the tower and avoid becoming old elizabeth
lutece is the person who figures this whole thing out before everyone, allegedly by bringing another version of herself from another dimension, thus proving it works. They're just scientists that work for Comstock.
because everything's already set to repeat itself, choice doesnt matter
razgriz417
Member
My favorite posts from this thread so far, gonna start my 2nd time through tonight to catch all the things I missed the first time around, the feels of this game man...
N
Noray
Unconfirmed Member
Does anybody have a transcript of the log that says that Comstock aged more rapidly due to use of the tears? I don't think I have it and people keep saying that's the cause of it but I'm not sure.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Ken's JUST starting to write his now... :-/
monocle_wearing_hyrax
Neo Member
Could someone explain the "he doesn't row" line.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
At the end when they're discussing Booker constructing memories to cope with being in a different reality the male Lutece responds "I know, I've lived it". I think that could be down to him constructing memories around him being a long lost twin when he was actually living in the Columbia reality.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
ooohhh, link?
there's something about going into fantasy land for game endings that rubs me the wrong way, probably because it's becoming increasingly prevelant:
spec ops
metro 2033
far cry 3
and then you have elizibeth speaking very cryptically when in a more realistic scenario the person would clearly just be like "ok dude, heres the deal, in one universe you accepted the baptism and became a religious nut, in another you didnt, and became a badass motherfucker. im going to prevent all the bad universes but going back to that choice and drowning you, or we can just dip and go to paris."
razgriz417
Member
pretty sure its Lutece commenting about how Booker never helps row the boat, insinuiating that they done this many times before
tea_and_crumpets
Member
After reading through this thread (and thanks to DoctorWho's summary) I think I fully grasp the story. I don't think its nearly as compelling as the first Bioshocks - but the setting (Columbia) and Elizabeth herself pretty much compensate for this in my opinion.
Elizabeth has overtaken Alyx Vance as the most fully realised supporting character in a video game. Her animation and voice acting is fantastic and she never gets annoying or does stupid AI related things.
As for the story there are some major 'gaps' which I hope the DLC will fill in.
'Comstock Booker' meets the female Lutece (sp) twin and forms Columbia. Why does he do this? Sure I get he becomes a religious nut after he is baptised, but why a city in the sky etc etc? When do they meet and how? Basically I want to know more about the founding/early days of Columbia.
'Real Booker' - his wife dies in childbirth but there's barely any reference to her? This is Elizabeth's mother. Maybe would be good to know more about her.
How does Elizabeth get her powers (I dont think its her finger) - does anyone else have them? Sure the twins can access tears with science, but I would like more explanation to this whole part of the story.
Lady Comstock - is she at all connected to Elizabeth (I think the answer is basically no, she's just Comstocks wife, who Comstock kill's to prevent her revealing that Elizabeth came to Columbia via a portal)
Also share some people's opinions on the songbird - sure its a mechanical creation designed to protect Elizabeth, but I wanted to know more about it.
Elizabeth has overtaken Alyx Vance as the most fully realised supporting character in a video game. Her animation and voice acting is fantastic and she never gets annoying or does stupid AI related things.
As for the story there are some major 'gaps' which I hope the DLC will fill in.
'Comstock Booker' meets the female Lutece (sp) twin and forms Columbia. Why does he do this? Sure I get he becomes a religious nut after he is baptised, but why a city in the sky etc etc? When do they meet and how? Basically I want to know more about the founding/early days of Columbia.
'Real Booker' - his wife dies in childbirth but there's barely any reference to her? This is Elizabeth's mother. Maybe would be good to know more about her.
How does Elizabeth get her powers (I dont think its her finger) - does anyone else have them? Sure the twins can access tears with science, but I would like more explanation to this whole part of the story.
Lady Comstock - is she at all connected to Elizabeth (I think the answer is basically no, she's just Comstocks wife, who Comstock kill's to prevent her revealing that Elizabeth came to Columbia via a portal)
Also share some people's opinions on the songbird - sure its a mechanical creation designed to protect Elizabeth, but I wanted to know more about it.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
there's no button prompt to row.
that's basically it in the less whimisical sense, but the lutece twins know everything that will happen.
thing is, the one that reports the whole thing on the voxaphones is her, and she wouldnt grow memories since she's always been there
I mean, I think her mentioning him as her brother could be just a way to not let other people know the truth
that line does seal the fact that she realized the "bringing other people from tears" thing worked by bringing in that brother/version of her. It was the ultimate way to test it so Comstock could do the same with his daughter
It refers to the fact that choice is irrelevant. All the Bookers are always going to go to the lighthouse, always sitting in the back of the boat, and always not rowing.
The only way to end the infinite loop of Bookers doing this was by killing himself before going through with/rejecting the baptism.
Gotta be shittin' me
N
Noray
Unconfirmed Member
The Luteces are constantly fucking around with grammar and tenses, I think it's just a joke like that. As in, he doesn't row, it's a constant, not a variable. He could've said "he never rows", but that would've been too obvious from a narrative pov, didn't want to give it away at that point.
the one part where the story headed towards "uhhh" territory for me was the whole Lady Comstock thing
"I think she's her but also part of me because I created her from my hate towards her and it is actually a versionf of me and and and"
that whole thing felt weirdly unnecesary in the grand scheme of things
"I think she's her but also part of me because I created her from my hate towards her and it is actually a versionf of me and and and"
that whole thing felt weirdly unnecesary in the grand scheme of things
He doesnt row means that he just doesnt row. They've gone through this many times and he has never rowed, thus he doesnt row
Vire
Member
Agreed, what really was the point of Lady Comstock's Ghost?
I would have been fucking furious.
Voice of Reason
Banned
I see what you're saying. So the only explanation of post-credits Booker is one of the Bookers that never went to the baptism in the first place, correct?
http://imgur.com/a/p3dVW
Note the differencing in the positioning, and the number 61.
61+61 = 122, the number of tallies on the black board and the code to enter Columbia.
Note the differencing in the positioning, and the number 61.
61+61 = 122, the number of tallies on the black board and the code to enter Columbia.
I took this as meaning that the loop started again. I'm of the opinion that the events at the end of the game were only for the player-slash-the-booker-the-player-was-playing-as's benefit. It's impossible to make any sense of the them otherwise. The only other explanation is that it's an accidental plot hole - which I doubt given the amount of work that went into this game.
The Booker you were was not the Booker that could have made the choice at the baptism, his shot at that choice had already been made. The whole ending has to be for his edification, it's Elizabeth filling in the blanks for him, showing him what he had done. Otherwise there should have been two Bookers in every instance of those events (the baptism, giving away Anna, chasing down Constock to try and get Anna back, etc.) The Booker you played as was completely out of the time loop for those events, he was from 20 years AFTER he had already given away Anna, those choices were just simply not his to make. It was a farce. Elizabeth loved him, but she also detested him for straight up selling and abandoning her (remember how violently she reacted when she thought her mother had done the same). She put down that version of him peacefully, like a puppy. Drowning that version of him made no difference to the timeline, it was just to bring closure to the story of her Booker. Don't forget at least a dozen of him (probably many more) had already been set on that path and failed before you got there as the player.
I'm pretty sure that's what it is, yes.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
thanks for the answers, for this one though, if they just warped away the song bird and they continued existing in that universe and went to paris, what would have happened?
Really? It's so obvious once the game starts going. I would have been able to piece it together fairly early on even if it wasn't ruined for me.
I never guessed HOW, though. Never saw the "Booker is Comstock" "Elizabeth makes herself disappear" "All worlds are connected through lighthouses" "BACK TO RAPTURE" twists coming.
oh man, people are gonna analyze all those chalkboards for clues I bet
What's the significance of the 16507 being backwards in the second picture?
EDIT: What's the significance of 61 in general? I'm having a major brainfart right now.
I would have been pissed after the media blackout I went on. Even out of context they always cause you to conjure up ideas of what might happen. I'm still trying to forget the untagged spoiler I saw for Ni no Kuni before I start that but it's so crucial to the plot it's going to be impossible to forget.
How is it obvious? I never got any hint throughout the game that Elizabeth would end up killing Booker. How do you come that that conclusion?
about the ending and post-credit: I think we still dont know if the pattern broke tho.
I mean it is implied that it did, in the sense that Booker has the memories of the whole thing because he goes "anna is that you?" as in realizing that he/she wasnt supposed to be there
because basically Booker always does this. It is implied that he's tried to do this who knows how many times, and every time he ends up building new memories every time he goes through, thus not knowing that he's been through all of this before
It was never a factor, it's impossible to know because one way or the other it would have never happened
I mean it is implied that it did, in the sense that Booker has the memories of the whole thing because he goes "anna is that you?" as in realizing that he/she wasnt supposed to be there
because basically Booker always does this. It is implied that he's tried to do this who knows how many times, and every time he ends up building new memories every time he goes through, thus not knowing that he's been through all of this before
It was never a factor, it's impossible to know because one way or the other it would have never happened
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
i think that was just booker having his daughter back now that comstock isnt around to take her.
My thought exactly
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