Eurogamer Opinion - Microsoft kills game ownership and expects us to smile
- Thread starter 8bit
- Start date
Theory has always been that gamers are the catalysts to mainstream success in the early years building an install base and getting friends interested in the console.
The vital question if Sony is drm free is are gamers actually going to follow through in not purchasing a product they dislike in sufficient numbers? Or will it be like 99% of the rest of gaming consumer activism and fail as soon as a shiny game is shown?
Cerebral Assassin
Member
Nope, I think more people will care about getting CoD DLC first than will care about restrictive DRM.
BRocknRolla
Member
There is zero reason to believe we benefit. Corporations might make more money, and it is a "might" since many people help fund new game purchases through trade ins that are now bound to plummet in price, but that doesn't fix bad management, over huge budgets, nor the continued averaging of content to appeal to the same audiences over and over.
DLC largely cut from the game isn't going away. Microtransctions aren't going away. $60, 4 hour experiences aren't going away. If these companies have found ways to control and nickel-and-dime you in the past, you can bet they'll keep those going even with this new system. People have to get real and be willing to stand up to it at some point, or this will only continue to get worse. I just wish I had faith that people were thinking enough about it to care. Alas, it's probably just going to be,"But I have to play the latest shooting-gallery!" and that will be where this conversation dies.
60_gig_PS3
Banned
Steam is different because you're not forced to use it. I can still buy retail PC games and not give a shit about what Valve is doing.
iNvid02
Member
you're right in that they will allow digital game reselling and the ability for a sub account to play at the same time, but the 24hr check in amongst other things is pretty crazy
overall its a clusterfuck
SamuelSupreme
Banned
It got everything I've been saying across fairly well
Microsoft could have said "no." If none of the platform makers agreed to this what would EA or Activision or anyone else would have done? Not made games for it? Their businesses would have shut down the moment that decision was made.
This is MS fault and Sony's if they follow suit for playing along with Publisher's greed.
KnightSlyder
Banned
The saddest thing is that, despite the public outcry, most will bend over and open wide 'cause it is the easiest course for them and thinking through it all is too tough for the average consumer! Hey that game looks fun...mmmm donuts.
Who here is surprised given the fact that Billy boy was one of the original proponents of the hardware only exists for software movement. In other words,Microsoft has always pushed an intangible element over a physical one...
Surprised? Really!?
Who here is surprised given the fact that Billy boy was one of the original proponents of the hardware only exists for software movement. In other words,Microsoft has always pushed an intangible element over a physical one...
Surprised? Really!?
fallingdove
Member
Eurogamer said:
This was really poignant for me. I am sure we all do this, but some days during game droughts, I look across my game collection and will often pick up some old PSX game that I haven't played in years and will dedicate a weekend to it. In this new world, retro weekends will no longer exist.
not only this but I can play steam offline for as long as I want, days, months, years...
Taking this in consideration even if valve goes bankrupt or closes or explodes I can still play forever
SpinkyMinky
Member
Is this sarcastic? If not, I'd like to introduce you to the WiiU.
Honestly, it did surprise me. It shouldn't but it did, although I did assume as soon as the rumours started last year that it would happen.
I really enjoyed the 360, my PS3 was relegated to purely exclusives. I had a ton of goodwill built up for the brand. Funny how things change.
boutrosinit
Street Fighter IV World Champion
Phone - You brought it into the argument, so that context was argued.
And yes, first sale doctrine has always been anti-consumer, pro-business.
It stuns me that you don't see that, but then you're arguing for a company's anti-consumer strategy for a games console, using a rationale based on it "being legal"...
Finally the media isn't kissing their ass anymore. Yassss
Writing about it isn't enough. I'd be more interested in this if the media out and out refused to write about them or cover their conferences etc etc. But I doubt that'll happen because they need to pay the bills and doing such a thing will hurt them.
This is nothing. A fart in the wind. Everything is a fart in the wind in the gaming industry. Everything we complain and bitch about get's wiped because of the next "thing". That's why these companies don't take us seriously. You bitch and moan yet we still buy their shit. This will be no different. We'll still buy the console, Eurogamer will still write about the console. The world keeps on spinning. Stop pretending to give a shit and they'll actually give a shit about your opinion. All they have to do is announce a FF7 remake exclusive to the ONE and everyone will instantly shut up and pay attention to that new "thing".
That's how fickle gamers are and MS knows it.
SpinkyMinky
Member
He made some salient points about gaming and ownership, but the fact that his article was singularly targeted at Microsoft undermined his entire post. Microsoft aren't initiating these measures in solitude - these are industry problems.
I can't stand or understand this thoughtless Microsoft-bashing bile from people who are either unable or unwilling to see the bigger picture - this is gaming's future, gaming's problems. Furthermore, these kind of protectionism measures are practiced by all entertainment industry titans like Apple and Google, who are bigger competitors to the future of Microsoft and Sony than a 2-company console war. If it this was a Microsoft problem, there would be no issue, as they could simply be avoided.
The writer has either completely missed the point, or there is an insidious agenda at work. Shit article.
I can't stand or understand this thoughtless Microsoft-bashing bile from people who are either unable or unwilling to see the bigger picture - this is gaming's future, gaming's problems. Furthermore, these kind of protectionism measures are practiced by all entertainment industry titans like Apple and Google, who are bigger competitors to the future of Microsoft and Sony than a 2-company console war. If it this was a Microsoft problem, there would be no issue, as they could simply be avoided.
The writer has either completely missed the point, or there is an insidious agenda at work. Shit article.
KnightSlyder
Banned
On the bright side of things, this is only a test! If it backfires MS will backpedal (they stated the policy could change). If it suceeds other companies (and mediums such as books/music/movies) will follow suit.
Rest assured that gaming will never die. If corporations overstep their bounds then things will once again implode before a new paradigm is created.
Rest assured that gaming will never die. If corporations overstep their bounds then things will once again implode before a new paradigm is created.
Latvian Hitman
Member
Globally? I think this gen is an easy win for them either way, provided their price point is reasonable.
In North America? No DRM + aggressive pricing gives them a real shot.
EatinOlives
Member
So I'm pretty glad that I'm not even considering an X1 at this point, but what truly worries me is that most all of these ideas can very easily be implemented by 3rd parties for the PS4 as well. So far the only information we've heard from Sony regarding this is that they're not going to do anything themselves, but will instead leave any online passes or used game restrictions up to publishers.
Well, there's really nothing stopping publishers from implementing every single restriction on the X1 on the PS4. All of these are software restrictions that can easily be put in anywhere. They won't have Sony's stamp of approval or have those restrictions built into the console itself, but do they really need to?
I don't care if X1 has this shit because I'm never going to buy one, but I'm worried this terrible policy is going to spread to other platforms.
Well, there's really nothing stopping publishers from implementing every single restriction on the X1 on the PS4. All of these are software restrictions that can easily be put in anywhere. They won't have Sony's stamp of approval or have those restrictions built into the console itself, but do they really need to?
I don't care if X1 has this shit because I'm never going to buy one, but I'm worried this terrible policy is going to spread to other platforms.
Jacksonlee
Member
WHY ARE PEOPLE BENDING THEIR ASSES AND SAYIING THEY'RE OKAY WITH THIS?
jesus christ. are you guys so centered around your own worlds in your 1st-world countries and your short-term comforts that you miss the motherfucking message that MS and their Publishers are giving to us?
the limitations - coming from small waves at first with onlinepass, DLC, pre-order bulshit - now has full fledged into giant dildo that'll fuck you everytime you conform to this bullshit.
but i guess you're okay now. but i hope you guys NOT LOSE YOUR JOBS/LIFESTYLES/LIFE COMFORTS ANYTIME SOON.
it'll be too late.
jesus christ. are you guys so centered around your own worlds in your 1st-world countries and your short-term comforts that you miss the motherfucking message that MS and their Publishers are giving to us?
the limitations - coming from small waves at first with onlinepass, DLC, pre-order bulshit - now has full fledged into giant dildo that'll fuck you everytime you conform to this bullshit.
but i guess you're okay now. but i hope you guys NOT LOSE YOUR JOBS/LIFESTYLES/LIFE COMFORTS ANYTIME SOON.
it'll be too late.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Steam = iOS
Xbone = Windows 8
It's easier to launch a platform with a new sales dynamic than it is to crowbar one platform dynamic into another.
Xbone = Windows 8
It's easier to launch a platform with a new sales dynamic than it is to crowbar one platform dynamic into another.
SteveWinwood
Member
I don't undestand how there are so many people who still don't understand the basics of steam.
Pay attention, maybe do some research?
Pay attention, maybe do some research?
LOL my ribs they hurt.
CosmicQueso
Member
I can just see the white board of a PR VP in Redmond...
"1) DEFLECT CONVERSATION - Push narrative to Steam!"
ilikesanta
Member
I just bought Dark Souls last week for $10. Just saying.
But Sony is doing the same thing!!,
Angel Abaddon
Member
And once again for all those yelling about it being the same as Steam: Steam arrived in a very different market. PC gaming at the time was rapidly declining,older well known developers were either shutting down or getting eaten up by console publishers, and the resale market was non existent, and regardless of what people say there was a huge piracy problem at the time so horrendous DRM setups were in effect (remember StarForce?).
Steam entered the market with a setup that mad concessions on both sides, corporate and consumer (namely cheaper prices and great sales for reduction of ownership, but PC gamers were used to not being able to resell stuff anyway), but was enough that everyone could be happy.
From there they've focused on providing excellent customer service and adding free features to the client and building up the PC market from crappy, buggy console ports and a few PC exclusives, to it being on par (and in some cases ahead) of consoles in the space of 10 years.
Steam entered the market with a setup that mad concessions on both sides, corporate and consumer (namely cheaper prices and great sales for reduction of ownership, but PC gamers were used to not being able to resell stuff anyway), but was enough that everyone could be happy.
From there they've focused on providing excellent customer service and adding free features to the client and building up the PC market from crappy, buggy console ports and a few PC exclusives, to it being on par (and in some cases ahead) of consoles in the space of 10 years.
reddwarf42
Member
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
I needed a good laugh.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
KnightSlyder
Banned
Espionage, embargos, entitled publishers...what a mess it has all become. Unfortunate.
I take less risks on Steam, that's for sure... and generally on Steam I'm buying games that cost between $1 and $10 on average. The most I've paid for a game on Steam is $22.
For me, no resale = less risk and lower max price I'll spend.
agreed. I'll be stopping by their site more frequently now.
More places need to call out MS B.S.
Oppo
Member
No, actually, to be frank, I do think this system was essentially invented whole cloth by Microsoft. It looks to be the case at this point. We don't have all the details yet, especially what Sony is doing, but I attribute this whole new DRM system pretty much solely to them.
Some publishers may have asked for it, but Microsoft went forward with it. I don't think it's an industry-wide push by any means. It's just par for the course for MS.
SMT
this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
I highly doubt the people using the Steam argument are consumers (probably pirates, paid journalists, or devs), lest they would use odd logic like that. You get AAA games for 7-10 dollars shortly after their release on Steam, compared to $70 on a console.
From a consumer's standpoint, STEAM is a gaming heaven.
Plus, the PC version is superior, has mods, while the console version is bought out of practicality for your family room.
Congratulations Eurogamer for posting a stellar article like this, let people know!
Of All Trades
Member
Most big publishers are getting increased profits by leveraging their IP onto high-growth platforms that don't allow resale, don't allow sharing, have sole or effectively sole marketplaces, and do allow massive quantities of DLC including consumable DLC. The most common counterargument when Steam is brought up as a comparison is that consumer rights are utterly and totally for sale so long as the price is right.
How much did you pay for the privilege to buy the game on sale?
Sorry if already mentioned, but the comparison with Steam in this case is entirely valid, because EG is attacking the games as licence model, which is exactly the same for Steam. Sure, Steam has a few pros, which is mostly due to them having to compete with piracy, but the theory behind it is just as heinous.
I guess I make a distinction between digital and physical. I buy physical because I want to take it somewhere and use it as I please, or give it away as I like. I buy digital because I don't want to do these things. I know I can't share it. So I don't see the comparison as accurate since MS is now telling me what I can do with the disc I bought.
SMT
this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
Obvious troll is obvious.
It was unexpectedly hilarious though, I didn't see it coming.
I would never have expected someone to joke about Steam.
Says the dev.
Steam is digital only. Nobody is complaining about XBL. We're talking about physical disks here. Steam also has tonnes of competitors on the same platform.
Comparison invalid.
Are XBL games licences that could expire or can you hook up your 360 years later and still play them, provided they're still on the disk?
I'm really tired of this argument. There are differences and (at the very least) there are consumer-friendly options that Steam offer.
For one, you can install your purchased games on any of your computers and regardless of platform. Your account is continuous and persistent...That copy of Half-Life 2 that's yous can be played on your PC, Mac, or Linux (if supported) machine.
Free-Online...never pay for online gaming. It's one thing for MS to insist on paying at the start but now it's just stupid. Multiple outlets offer free online...why are they immune?
Persistent ownership...You want to play that that online shooter you bought back in 2002? Go ahead. Want to play Halo 2? Good fucking luck with that.
Major Sales...this can't be overstated enough. On a closed system like the LIVE, MS/Sony have no competition...there are no competing sales to deal with so they have very little reason to offer discounts. Meanwhile, over the course of the last 4 years, my Steam account has grown by leaps and bounds and a fraction of what I would get from the platform holders.
thefoxtrot
Member
It sucks, but I don't think the disk were ever considered anything but a license under the EULA or whatever docs accompany the systems and the games. It's always probably been a license, even with the disc. Sure, we own the physical disk. But, the disk has probably been considered a license for quite some time. That being said, I won't buy into a system that treats consumers this way.