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[NoblesseOblige]

Because it's not uncommon for primary voters to defect to the opposing party if their primary candidate loses? 1/10 is not much in the grand scheme of things.

Then you should probably supply more stats than just the two to establish that as fact.

 

[TAJ]

Guy who's known for throwing tantrums was put into office by people who were throwing tantrums.
It's like poetry.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

These people never wanted Sanders' message, only an outsider to stick it to...whoever.

 

[Fenderputty]

uh

So probably like something in the middle then.

"Every vote counts in a swing state"

 

[water_wendi]

uh

”For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin."

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4632402/every-blue-collar-democrat

How did that strategy work out and why is Chuck Schumer still in a position of leadership?

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Hahaha, oh man...

"Death by Purity Tests"

That's what will be on the tombstone of the Democratic Party.

 

[kirblar]

No one is doing that yet a large portion of vocal Clinton voters on this site still refer to us as "Bernie Bros" so I have to assume some do that.

Jamelle Bouie voted Sanders in the primary. Do you think people are referring to him when they invoke the term?

 

[water_wendi]

Hahaha, oh man...

"Death by Purity Tests"

That's what will be on the tombstone of the Democratic Party.

How about death by numbskulledness? They courted Republican voters in those states and they knew it would be at the expense of Democratic voters and still did it.

 

[norm9]

They probably got influenced by TYT.

Or it was baby's first election and their savior didn't win.

Maybe a combo of both.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Part of the 90%. Well, nearly half of the MA primary voted for Bernie, but still swung hard for Clinton.

 

[Polk]

Trump and Bernie were both viewed as rebels, not mainstream politicians. Its why a lot of people say Bernie would have won the general even though he lost (fairly) the primary. I certainly heard over and over again that the main appeal of Trump was that "he's not a politician". A lot of people knew Trump was evil, they just felt that the status quo was worse.

How can person who is almost 30 years in Congress can be viewed as rebel and not mainstream politician is beyond my comprehention of US politics.

 

[kirblar]

How about death by numbskulledness? They courted Republican voters in those states and they knew it would be at the expense of Democratic voters and still did it.

The central question here: Why do you think we lost Democratic votes in those places?

I suspect we have very different answers.

 

[shawnbuddy]

As a point of order, now that we know the numbers the Bernie supporters have to stop claiming that "99 percent" of them voted for Hillary. It was 88 percent.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I'm moderately surprised it wasn't higher. Sanders did a good job of bringing a populist campaign behind an elitist candidate.

 

[norm9]

How can person who is almost 30 years in Congress can be viewed as rebel and not mainstream politician is beyond my comprehention of US politics.

Got that Killer Mike endorsement.

 

[Rockandrollclown]

How can person who is almost 30 years in Congress can be viewed as rebel and not mainstream politician is beyond my comprehention of US politics.

Its all perception. Your average person never heard of Bernie before the primaries. They've been hearing (mostly bad things) about Hillary for like 25 years.

 

[Valhelm]

Not too surprising, this happens in elections. People sometimes pick good candidates for bad reasons, and some people never get over primary woes.

Substantially more Hillary voters went for McCain in 2008.

 

[Kthulhu]

Thanks, guys!

Guess we can't just blame them, since enough others voted Trump. But going from Sanders to Trump seems like such a strange leap.

They were never really progressive. They were always just populists.

 

[RinsFury]

Fucking idiots. Figured there'd be even more.

 

[Liha]

How about death by numbskulledness? They courted Republican voters in those states and they knew it would be at the expense of Democratic voters and still did it.

Democrats are just incapable of learning from continued losses, they would get crushed without the two-party system.

 

[water_wendi]

The central question here: Why do you think we lost Democratic votes in those places?

I suspect we have very different answers.

Because instead of going after Democratic voters they went with courting Republicans. Remember how the entire USA would be blue? Its not like they even just thought they had no place to go and would vote D anyway. Those in charge KNEW they would lose Democratic voters in those states.. they counted on it because they would pick up double in Republican votes or so they believed.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4632402/every-blue-collar-democrat

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

I guess they were still under the spell of "he is just campaigning, he won't be that bad".

Well as we all found out...Trump WAS that bad, and really, worse then we ever thought he would be.

 

[Lesath]

And those people were foolish as well, but these people are fucking STUPID given how much greater the disparity in ideology is between Sanders and Trump compared to Clinton and McCain. For as much as I dislike McCain he is nowhere near the pile of shit Trump is.

Seriously; McCain is an asshole but please tell me how voting for a guy who defended Obama from the "secret Muslim" remarks versus the guy who spread birtherism is somehow equivalent.

 

[theWB27]

Are you a democrat or leftist if your second pick is Donald Trump?

 

[TAJ]

As a point of order, now that we know the numbers the Bernie supports have to stop claiming that "99 percent" of them voted for Hillary. It was 88 percent.

I don't see a figure for that in the article.
You're saying that no Bernie primary voters voted for Comrade Jill or abstained in the general?

 

[Kthulhu]

They probably got influenced by TYT.

Or it was baby's first election and their savior didn't win.

Maybe a combo of both.

Did anyone outside of Jimmy Dore want Trump to win at TYT?

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Trump and Bernie were both viewed as rebels, not mainstream politicians. Its why a lot of people say Bernie would have won the general even though he lost (fairly) the primary. I certainly heard over and over again that the main appeal of Trump was that "he's not a politician". A lot of people knew Trump was evil, they just felt that the status quo was worse.

I wonder how those people feel now that we're being dicked down by the status quo, PLUS ULTRA.

Are you a democrat or leftist if your second pick is Donald Trump?

"Bernie or Trump" voters who thought Trump would clash with the Republican party didn't put much thought into what issues they'd actually have disagreements on. I'd describe them more of "voters of passion" than belonging to any logical political party.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Did anyone outside of Jimmy Dore want Trump to win at TYT?

No, I believe they all voted Hillary besides Dore, who voted Stein.

 

[norm9]

And those people were foolish as well, but these people are fucking STUPID given how much greater the disparity in ideology is between Sanders and Trump compared to Clinton and McCain. For as much as I dislike McCain he is nowhere near the pile of shit Trump is.

The fear of the old man dying and having president palin in charge was a scary nightmare.

Did anyone outside of Jimmy Dore want Trump to win at TYT?

Their nonstop pro Bernie anti Hillary stance polluted many new and young voters I'm guessing.

 

[Valhelm]

Are you a democrat or leftist if your second pick is Donald Trump?

No.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Seriously; McCain is an asshole but please tell me how voting for a guy who defended Obama from the "secret Muslim" remarks versus the guy who spread birtherism is somehow equivalent.

He isn't an equivalent, but one can't forget that Sarah "Obama's palling around with terrorists" Palin was his vice presidential candidate.

 

[Koomaster]

Bernie -> Trump supporters should be whipped in the streets. But all Bernie supporters were complicit in carrying on for so long and whipping the rest of the Bernie or Busters up into a frenzy.

But now we can definitely point to Bernie as the reason Clinton lost.

 

[xxracerxx]

But now we can definitely point to Bernie as the reason Clinton lost.

No.

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

But now we can definitely point to Bernie as the reason Clinton lost.

How about you start blaming the DNC for pushing a shitty candidate and conspiring against one who had the most enthusiasm I've ever seen for a politician in my lifetime?

 

[Zoe]

I suspect they were probably never going to vote for Clinton. Meh

Pretty much:

Party seems to have had something to do with it — Sanders-Trump voters were much less likely than Sanders-Clinton or Sanders-third-party voters to have been Democrats.

 

[sphagnum]

I don't even understand the thought process behind this. "The candidate that shares my views didn't win so I'm going to vote for the complete opposite"

You wanted filet mignon but your mom made you choose between rib eye or taco bell steak and you chose the latter

Some Bernie voters, especially in the South, were conservative Dems voting against Hillary for being Hillary.

Some Bernie voters were conspiracy theorists whose primary concern was globalism.

Some Bernie voters were people who truly believed in being anti-establishment as their sole criteria, and the drain the swamp rhetoric appealed to them.

Some Bernie voters were probably pro-Russia and/or viewed Hillary as being more of a hawk.

There's plenty of reasons for crossover appeal. The vast majority of Bernie voters however did not fall for these.

 

[TAJ]

How about you start blaming the DNC for pushing a shitty candidate?

Bernie -> Trump voter, right?

 

[kirblar]

Because instead of going after Democratic voters they went with courting Republicans. Remember how the entire USA would be blue? Its not like they even just thought they had no place to go and would vote D anyway. Those in charge KNEW they would lose Democratic voters in those states.. they counted on it because they would pick up double in Republican votes or so they believed.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4632402/every-blue-collar-democrat

On what issue is this turning them off? You're speaking in generalities here and dodging the issue. These people flipped. Why did they flip?

 

[Nydius]

Bernie -> Trump supporters should be whipped in the streets. But all Bernie supporters were complicit in carrying on for so long and whipping the rest of the Bernie or Busters up into a frenzy.

But now we can definitely point to Bernie as the reason Clinton lost.

Haven't been reading the thread, I see. The primary to general defectors for Bernie to Trump is low compared to past primary defections.

 

[Foffy]

I mentioned this in another thread about Japan and populism.

People want something different than what we have, as it's not working. This alone should be cause for grave concern, because this means so long as a molotov cocktail can be tossed "because it's different than the order of things" people will in fact lean to this side. The idea of change and an upheaval to things as they are is of great desire to people who feel the society they have is not working for them. Ideally, these people should be leaning to sides and people who can specify the problem. Sanders was close, with rentierism, economic inequality, and an issue where the elite have the world and the masses have ashes. I imagine the people who went from Sanders to Trump at the very least still felt populism was better than the status quo, even if it entirely was based upon ghosts, lies, and ignoring deeper issues that are about to get several degrees worse for people.

Populism in general spawned from precarity and the deconstruction of sustainability for many, many Americans. Don't be shocked when given a choice, however bad it is to the status quo, people will pick it. Mix this with racism and "othering" of others, and it's not hard to see why even Trump had an audience. I imagine those who went from sanity to insanity here really didn't believe their lives got better under Barack Obama, and while many of us can say we have, many can also say they have not, and its level of truth is something to examine depending upon the reasons.

We should be alarmed that anybody, for any reason, would support the Orange Con Man. This speaks to a toxicity and danger that can't even be put into words.

 

[Battersea Power Station]

But going from Sanders to Trump seems like such a strange leap.

Of course it's a strange leap. But until Dems realize that Americans largely vote for personality and not policy, they'll keep losing. And unfortunately the people that will lose the most are the ones that are already in the margins.

 

[MeatGrinder]

Can we just stop the blame game?

Almost half of the eligible votes this go around were dumb as hell, we can all agree on that.

The question I'm interested in is, why did Bernie's message work on these dumb people, but Hillary's didn't? What made Trump's words work on them? Were there differences in optics? Was it sexism at work? Did Hillary fail to talk about issues people cared about? I think the fact they changed is evidence enough these voters can be convinced to vote against Trump next time around.

This whole vilian-izing of Bernie voters misses that entirely and is just a waste of time. What are you going to do? Physically stop them from going to the polls? You either depress them or convince them. Pick one.

Great post.

 

[pigeon]

I guess they were still under the spell of "he is just campaigning, he won't be that bad".

Some people will say or do anything to absolve others of their support for white supremacy, I guess.

 

[theWB27]

How about you start blaming the DNC for pushing a shitty candidate and conspiring against one who had the most enthusiasm I've ever seen for a politician in my lifetime?

Horseshit...we are witnessing first hand what a shitty candidate that wins looks like. You're delusional at best if you think this is how that candidate that the DNC pushed administration would go.

 

[IrishNinja]

And then there's race. Nearly half of Sanders-Trump voters disagree with the idea that "white people have advantages."

in my experience, i really thought this # would be higher - the amount of bernie folks bemoaning "identity politics" and on about how its class, not race type shit seemed high

I wonder how many sanders supporters ran 3rd party...

i'd be interested in seeing how many fell for stein's shit too, yeah
i know one of em locally that went for the libertarian candidate, here in our swing state too...sighhhh

 

[Swig_]

How about you start blaming the DNC for pushing a shitty candidate and conspiring against one who had the most enthusiasm I've ever seen for a politician in my lifetime?

It's amazing what kind of mental gymnastics Hildog supporters go through to put the blame any anyone or anything else.

 

[xxracerxx]

How about you start blaming the DNC for pushing a shitty candidate and conspiring against one who had the most enthusiasm I've ever seen for a politician in my lifetime?

Jesus Christ.

 

[kirblar]

How about you start blaming the DNC for pushing a shitty candidate and conspiring against one who had the most enthusiasm I've ever seen for a politician in my lifetime?

You were born after 2008?

 

[SolidSnakex]

in my experience, i really thought this # would be higher - the amount of bernie folks bemoaning "identity politics" and on about how its class, not race type shit seemed high

There was a poll that showed that of all the presidential candidates, Sanders supporters were least likely to view black people negatively.

 

[KojiKnight]

Holy shit, some people are talking as if the majority of Bernie supporters were somehow satan... 12% is a very small portion.