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2012-13 Dec NBA Season |OT|Runnin' in da mouf of Serg Abaka daily.
- Thread starter reilo
- Start date
Let's explore what happens when Kobe scores 30+ and LA loses
10pt loss @ Blazers. Kobe with 30/6/3 on 10-20 shooting. He had 7 turnovers. Blazers top performer was Batum with 26/6/1 and 3 stls on 9-16 shooting.
10pt loss vs. Clippers. Kobe with 40/6/1 + 2 stls on 14-23 shooting. He had 6 turnovers. Clippers top performer was Paul with 8/6/15 and 3 stls on 7-15 shooting.
16pt loss @ Kings. Kobe with 38/3/3 +2 steals on 11/20 shooting. He had 7 turnovers. Kings top performer was Thornton with 23/4/1 on 8-13 shooting.
8pt loss @ Memphis. Kobe with 30/3/4 +1 stl on 7/23 shooting. He had 2 turnovers. Grizzlies top performer was Conley with 19/6/1 and 4 steals on 8-14 shooting.
2pt loss vs. Pacers. Kobe with 40/10/3 + 3 stls on 12-28 shooting. He had 10 turnovers. Pacers top performer was West with 16/10/8 on 7-15 shooting. This was the first hack-a-dwight game and Lakers missed 20fts in a 2pt loss. The bench also scored a whopping 5 points.
10pt loss vs. Magic. Kobe with 34/7/5 + 1stl on 12-27 shooting. He had 2 turnovers. Magic top performer was Afflalo with 30/5/5 on 11-18 shooting. This was the second hack-a-dwight game. Lakers missed 14 fts.
2pt loss @ Rockets. Kobe with 39/6/2 + 2 stls. He had 3 turnovers. Rockets top performer was Smith with 21/9 on 7-8 shooting. This was the third hack-a-dwight game. Lakers missed 12fts in a 2pt loss.
6pt loss @ Thunder. Kobe with 35/3/7 with 2 blks and 3stls on 11-24 shooting. He had 5 turnovers. OKC top performer was Durant with 36/9/4 on 10-19 shooting.
7pt loss vs. Jazz. Kobe with 34/3 on + 1 stl on 9/24 shooting. He had 2 turnovers. Jazz top performer was Williams with 22/9/2 on 8-11 shooting.
Looking through these games, Kobe's turnovers are high (been lower since Duhon's been starting) but I only found two instances of us getting scored on badly by people he would have guarded at all.
When we weren't losing games on the FT line, we were getting destroyed at the PG, SF and PF positions. I only included one top performer for opposing teams but more often than not, it was those 3 positions in some combination.
I don't know what the answers are but Kobe's not nearly the biggest problem...
10pt loss @ Blazers. Kobe with 30/6/3 on 10-20 shooting. He had 7 turnovers. Blazers top performer was Batum with 26/6/1 and 3 stls on 9-16 shooting.
10pt loss vs. Clippers. Kobe with 40/6/1 + 2 stls on 14-23 shooting. He had 6 turnovers. Clippers top performer was Paul with 8/6/15 and 3 stls on 7-15 shooting.
16pt loss @ Kings. Kobe with 38/3/3 +2 steals on 11/20 shooting. He had 7 turnovers. Kings top performer was Thornton with 23/4/1 on 8-13 shooting.
8pt loss @ Memphis. Kobe with 30/3/4 +1 stl on 7/23 shooting. He had 2 turnovers. Grizzlies top performer was Conley with 19/6/1 and 4 steals on 8-14 shooting.
2pt loss vs. Pacers. Kobe with 40/10/3 + 3 stls on 12-28 shooting. He had 10 turnovers. Pacers top performer was West with 16/10/8 on 7-15 shooting. This was the first hack-a-dwight game and Lakers missed 20fts in a 2pt loss. The bench also scored a whopping 5 points.
10pt loss vs. Magic. Kobe with 34/7/5 + 1stl on 12-27 shooting. He had 2 turnovers. Magic top performer was Afflalo with 30/5/5 on 11-18 shooting. This was the second hack-a-dwight game. Lakers missed 14 fts.
2pt loss @ Rockets. Kobe with 39/6/2 + 2 stls. He had 3 turnovers. Rockets top performer was Smith with 21/9 on 7-8 shooting. This was the third hack-a-dwight game. Lakers missed 12fts in a 2pt loss.
6pt loss @ Thunder. Kobe with 35/3/7 with 2 blks and 3stls on 11-24 shooting. He had 5 turnovers. OKC top performer was Durant with 36/9/4 on 10-19 shooting.
7pt loss vs. Jazz. Kobe with 34/3 on + 1 stl on 9/24 shooting. He had 2 turnovers. Jazz top performer was Williams with 22/9/2 on 8-11 shooting.
Looking through these games, Kobe's turnovers are high (been lower since Duhon's been starting) but I only found two instances of us getting scored on badly by people he would have guarded at all.
When we weren't losing games on the FT line, we were getting destroyed at the PG, SF and PF positions. I only included one top performer for opposing teams but more often than not, it was those 3 positions in some combination.
I don't know what the answers are but Kobe's not nearly the biggest problem...
sf2fanatic
Member
West All stars consists of guards and small forwards from now on
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
It's been pretty bad across the board, but it looks like mostly injuries and LMA not giving a fuck because his supporting cast sucks so I'm not sure how big of a deal it is. Love, Millsap and Griffin are coming back around and Davis, Dirk, and Pau should be back from injury soon.
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
Ryan Anderson cannot be denied out of his all star bid this time around!
Herpes Reasons
Banned
-kobe's not the biggest problem, but he's still a problem.
with his stupid hero complex jacking up shots and stagnating the offense which direct affects players chemistry and interaction with other players.
-turnovers. part of it is that he sucks as a pg as well as attributed with his hero complex of forcing shots where he doesn't need to.
-defense. what defense? he sags off shooters on any given opportunity. i haven't seen kobe play defense since mike brown came in last year. im not joking. he hardly rotates on defense and hardly boxes out.
StickSoldier
Member
mayo has been a better pick up than either dwight or dwill would have been.
Kobe's defense is a problem.
The rest of the stuff you're just reaching on. I'm so tired of the Kobe forces shots so it affects player chemistry bullshit. This is a professional league, teams have clearly defined roles, and Kobe's role is to be a shooting guard and score 27-30 on 20-22 shots a game. Most of the time when he is forcing shots, we're down 8-10 in the final 6 min of the fourth quarter. We don't lose that game because he misses a couple shots late, we lose that game because we go down 8-10 with 6 minutes left in the fourth. Chances of winning at that point are well under 50%. Not to mention, as of the last 5 games, our second best 4th quarter option gets fouled anytime he gets into scoring position and can't produce nearly as effectively as Kobe can.
While it's frustrating to see Kobe keep coming up short trying to take over a game where we're down 8-10 in the fourth when just a few years ago, that was routine for him to bring us all the way back and put us over the top. It's also not his fault were in that stage. When we're up 8-10 with 6 minutes left we'll win a lot more games. and the games we lose are D-Howards fault at the line.
Edit: Also, anytime you or anyone else mentions "hero complex" you give your cards away. The vast majority of championships have been won by teams with guys that can take over close games and win chips by dominating the ball late. Not by equal ball distribution the whole way through. I get people who like the Suns circa 2005-2009 style of play...but it's a preference of style not results.
The Jazz had an all time great PG who got everyone involved. The Bulls had a past his prime SG who shot 35 shots in game 6 and shot under 45%. Guess who won the game and the series...twice.
Herpes Reasons
Banned
michael jordan wasn't forcing shots the way kobe is.
that's the difference between kobe and michael.
michael was a high intelligent player that was smart enough not to force shots.
kobe on the other hand doesn't trust his teammates to make shots, he thinks in his head that forcing a shot with 4 defenders around him is better than passing to an open shooter.
now, im not saying kobe never passes to an open shooter, but he does force enough shots to warrant him being called out on his kome moments *
(disclaimer)
*fuck you for making me put michael in a good light. i feel dirty as hell.
now i need an ocho dunk to baptize me righteous again.
No it is. Unfortunately...due to age, Kobe can't play consistent hard pressed defense every play and still be what he is offensively through a 100 game season+playoffs. Consequently he camps in the lane and takes defensive plays off. Lebron and Durant both put more consistent effort on the defensive side of the ball at this point in their careers. Kobe's defensive greatness has been under-appreciated from 98-2009 but his team defense has been atrocious since.
It's just really bad over a 48 minute game. He's smart so he knows how to minimize his mistakes and still shut his guys out usually by playing the %'s. but he's horrible at team defensive principles. Rotating over, closing out on shooters, getting back in transition, crashing the board for rebounds when he's the SF out there to name a few areas where he puts little to no effort. When he gets picked off he never fights through the screen. He's not lazy, cuz he's sweating like crazy every game - he just can't do it all anymore so his defense has taken a huge hit.
He hasn't been a good defender for years now, it has nothing to do with roaming or strategy, he simply doesn't put in the effort
Herpes Reasons
Banned
bold face lie.
3pt shot maybe. but michael shot confidently anywhere within the 3pt line.
what does this even mean?
this statement only drives my point that kobe's idiotic forced bad shots shouldn't even be though of to begin with.
why some of laker-age refusal to criticize kobe for his faults is beyond me.
dude, Jordon was proclaimed a ball hog from the moment he stepped on the floor until he left the game. Don't start that nonsense with me. Dude was a pure ball-hog with a bigger hero complex than anyone who's ever played the game. His greater FG% is almost exclusively due to the fact that he shot some 3,300 less 3's than Kobe has in his career because back then, everyone shot a lot less 3's.
The greater point still stands. Hero-Ball isn't inherently bad. It's ugly and unattractive to a lot of people, but "sharing the load equally offensively" hasn't been much more successful in NBA history.
Kobe goes into hero mode when we're down by 8-10 or more in the fourth quarter. Those are essentially lost games. Call me when, this season, Kobe goes into hero mode up 8-10 with 4 minutes left and LA loses the game. But down 8-10...sure, Kobe go ahead and try to win the game cuz it's a 70% chance it's a lost game anyway with our team FT shooting outside of him being so abysmal.
The script has been the same for a couple years now. LA is down double digits in the fourth with only 5 minutes or so remaining. Lakers have to be near perfect offensively and defensively to win. Kobe does just enough to bring us to a one possession game. A mistake happens in the final minute or two, the other team stops playing like ass and converts at the line or from the field a couple times. Game over. I was pissed off at Kobe for the final 2 minutes of OKC-LA Game 2 last year. And the final 6 minutes of OKC-LA game 4. That's where LA was up, he made huge mistakes, LA Lost.
But in a game like last night, or OKC Friday night, where LA is down by double digits with less than half a quarter to go, whatever he does is all gravy to me.
Herpes Reasons
Banned
duh, but he wasn't jacking up retarded shots the way kobe is.
2-7 with Kyrie
2-8 without Kyrie
tank is gonna keep going strong, just wait until Varejao gets traded/"injured"
Adam Blade
WWKC
Aren't you happy, Knux?
iamshadowlark
Banned
Meh. They just have physical advantages over most players they face. It's also easier to give more consistent effort when you're younger..
I think lebron has alot better defensive instinct and timing than Kobe has ever had, which isn't saying much, but still.
Meh. They just have physical advantages over most players they face. It's also easier to give more consistent effort when you're younger..
Yea, that's why my first sentence said "due to age". As I said Kobe's not lazy, but he's still a team defensive liability compared to what he was, and compared to what Bron/Durant are, and quite frankly, compared to what we need from him to win a chip.
Artest still gives consistent effort, Kobe's gotta find a way. Hopefully with Nash quarterbacking more, he can save more energy on offense, and apply it to team defense - rotating, closing out, hustling back on D, crashing the defensive glass, etc.
how old are you? no really
I don't know why you even bother with kobe apologists. Someone who still believes kobe would carry our team offensively to a ring in 2013 is delusional imo. Pretty much every single contender has someone that can shut him down(Who's always a scrub). I'd rather he have fewer attempts and we lose than him having it in his head that his the only one that can carry us. If we don't distribute our offense especially in the fourth we probably won't even make the playoffs at this rate. I'm tired of kome's ass.
Dominican Power
Member
He started watching basketball games when LeBron became a Heat.
theignoramus
Member
choosing not to jack up an out of rhythm trey with a defender in your face is smart basketball and nothing less than that...
iamshadowlark
Banned
Kobe was a great defender earlier on in his career. Better than durant by far....lebron is debatable.
KidA Seven
Member
Frobe defense > any lebron defense
Knux-Future
Banned
Doug is just setting him up for the fall.
iamshadowlark
Banned
So about the same number of years as Knicks playoff wins in like what, a decade?
LegendofJoe
Member
Damn you!
Also, I came across this picture on realgm and thought I'd share it:
About how much do you think it would cost to fix a grill that bad? 10k?
Future PhaZe
Member
lol o shit
Yea, I like Kobe but he might as well be done with how badly he impacts games with his negatives. He's literally one of the worst defenders in the league and he has absolute joke turnovers.
His percentages this seaon make up for it, but once those drop down to his average it won't be enough to make up for the literal dozen or so of bad plays he makes a game.
There's a million things I can say and videos I can show about Kobe's defensive ability and instinct. But I'll just show you this.
Who have you ever seen that has been able to do This to Lebron
And Wade Too
iamshadowlark
Banned
I love narrative and what not but one play doesn't mean shit. It's not like Bryant had routinely locked down either of those guys past there first like 3 years.
That being said, I never said Kobe was a bad defender. Just not that great and that Lebron is better.
To a 10 time ALL NBA Defensive First Team Selection? Really? Next you'll come with "I never said Jordan was a bad finisher around the rim, just not that Great. and that Lebron is better"
Lebron's better than Kobe on defense in one respect, his ability, due to his size, to play 4 positions defensively. But that doesn't make him better. Just like Magic's ability to play 5 positions in a Finals Game and jump ball at Center doesn't make him better than MJ.
Lebron may end up as a better defender than Prime Kobe, but he ain't there yet.
Also, and this must be said. Lebron has never been able to stop Wade either. Wade, Carmelo they routinely would torch Lebron. Melo still does. And Lebron joined Wade so the abuse would stop.
Future PhaZe
Member
Vahagn you do realize Kobe hasn't played defense since like 08 tho rite
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Raymond is shooting 41% from three on nearly five attempts per game a year after he shot 30% on wide open threes because teams would rather have him wide open from three than have LMA go 1-1 in the post.
Jason Kidd is shooting 51% from three after two years of 35% from three.
Carmelo Anthony is shooting 43% from three despite being a 33% career three point shooter
Ronnie Brewer is shooting 38% from three after never being guarded outside of three feet in his career.
Either the Knicks have the greatest shooting coaches in the history of basketball or this team is a supreme fluke.
Jason Kidd is shooting 51% from three after two years of 35% from three.
Carmelo Anthony is shooting 43% from three despite being a 33% career three point shooter
Ronnie Brewer is shooting 38% from three after never being guarded outside of three feet in his career.
Either the Knicks have the greatest shooting coaches in the history of basketball or this team is a supreme fluke.
Herpes Reasons
Banned
kobe shut down top tier offensive players in his heyday.
whats' the best lebron has done besides the "science of the lebron block"?
Did someone drop you on your head recently? Jordan had years where he shot 50% from mid range. I don't think you have enough knowledge to talk about Jordan if you think Jordan didn't trust his jumper. No one else in the history of the game hit isolation jumpers with the efficiency that Michael did.
So does Derrick Rose in the playoffs not count
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
The Laker teams with prime Kobe were mostly bad defensively whereas all of LeBron's teams (other than this year) have been awesome defensively. That has to count for a good bit.
Herpes Reasons
Banned
oh shit, that Customers Called 'Fat' on Restaurant Bill thread is a graveyard.
you've been warned.
you've been warned.
ok what the hell, isn't that exactly the opposite of what evilore has been saying?
hyper-sensative
Gaf mods are like NBA refs, they'll allow someone to be mugged at the rim but then call a foul for a little bump out on the perimeter.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
so is he a lock right now for MIP?
Herpes Reasons
Banned
im not even going to discuss the merits of insulting people of different creed, lifestyle, beliefs, politics, etc on this forum. you just dont do it mang.
victreeb3l
Member
might watch the SAS / HOU game tonight. nothing else to do on a monday night bah
its closed again. first page graveyard is crazy. i dont think ive ever seen so many gone down so fast. best to just not talk about it at all however.
its closed again. first page graveyard is crazy. i dont think ive ever seen so many gone down so fast. best to just not talk about it at all however.
lol yes you do.
insult the shit out of anything or anyone Christian or Conservative.
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