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[linsivvi]

Are you gonna point to Kobe's All-Defensive Second Team selection this year to argue that he's still a good defender in this league today?

These are the same people that voted AI into the all-star game when he should've been on a flight to Turkey.

Good stuff.

Did you guys even attempt to read my post? I said I wasn't disputing his personal choice. What I called him out was when he claimed there's a clear cut consensus, thus everyone agreed while providing no such evidence.

It's a 3 headed race between Shaq, Kobe and Duncan, yet he just made up history and claimed everybody picked Duncan as the player of the generation.

 

[reilo]

Did you guys even attempt to read my post? I said I wasn't disputing his personal choice. What I called him out was when he claimed there's a clear cut consensus, thus everyone agreed while providing no such evidence.

It's a 3 headed race between Shaq, Kobe and Duncan, yet he just made up history and claimed everybody picked Duncan as the player of the generation.

I think pointing to the TNT crew is a bit... odd. They don't tend to go with the mainstream opinion of things as much as the rest of the media.

If you did that poll with the ESPN crew or any other mainstream outlet, Lebron would come in top 3 for the 2000s.

 

[Omega]

Man I wish I had wandered into Best-Gaf during those days.

Hey real question because I have wondered this forever.
You guys that actually really really dislike Kobe and not just because its fun riling other people up but you take pleasure in him personally failing does that come from any specific moment in his career?

I ask because the only people I personally know that don't like Kobe are guys that felt he was threatening MJ's legacy and they would go on immediate lock down talking about anything Kobe related.

Obviously I discount boston fans

I acknowledge Kobe's talents but I simply don't like him because of all his dickriding fans.

I live in New York and yet everyone in my Jr High and High School were Kobe dickriders. To this day they'll say he's better than Jordan and say who cares about accolades. When someone else says LeBron is better however, they run to the 5 rings and other accolades/accomplishments.

GOAT that only has one MVP, which he didn't even deserve but was given to him as a lifetime award? FOH. This has nothing to do with Michael either because I've always argued that Magic was the best player ever. (I'm biased towards PGs)

If Kobe fans weren't so hypocritical and annoying I might actually root for him. Still wouldn't change my mind about Timmy being the best player in the post-Jordan era though

 

[linsivvi]

I think pointing to the TNT crew is a bit... odd. They don't tend to go with the mainstream opinion of things as much as the rest of the media.

If you did that poll with the ESPN crew or any other mainstream outlet, Lebron would come in top 3 for the 2000s.

It was a fan voting poll thus you do see Lebron being #2 over Shaq and Duncan, which is ridiculous. My whole point was that it's pretty clear not "everyone" realized it was Duncan's generation, since the casuals don't watch the Spurs anyway.

 

[Emwitus]

I think pointing to the TNT crew is a bit... odd. They don't tend to go with the mainstream opinion of things as much as the rest of the media.

If you did that poll with the ESPN crew or any other mainstream outlet, Lebron would come in top 3 for the 2000s.

And that would be a horrible list.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I acknowledge Kobe's talents but I simply don't like him because of all his dickriding fans.

I live in New York and yet everyone in my Jr High and High School were Kobe dickriders. To this day they'll say he's better than Jordan and say who cares about accolades. When someone else says LeBron is better however, they run to the 5 rings and other accolades/accomplishments.

GOAT that only has one MVP, which he didn't even deserve but was given to him as a lifetime award? FOH. This has nothing to do with Michael either because I've always argued that Magic was the best player ever. (I'm biased towards PGs)

If Kobe fans weren't so hypocritical and annoying I might actually root for him. Still wouldn't change my mind about Timmy being the best player in the post-Jordan era though

Yeah but your going to find those kind of people everywhere.
I would argue that at this point the Lebron dickriders have achieved a whole new level riding nba dick that hasn't ever been seen. Lebron has brought in so many new oblivious fans that I have a hard time resenting the guy just for that.

As a actual basketball fan which a lot of people on these boards are how can people not appreciate what he does. Its amazing basketball. I loathe the Heat crew but even I was getting pretty amped during Lebrons last 40. KD's cold ass dagger was also great basketball. I can emotionally resent people but I also love great basketball.

I remember watching Iverson step of Lue and just laughing my ass off. What a absolute bad ass.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

I acknowledge Kobe's talents but I simply don't like him because of all his dickriding fans.

I live in New York and yet everyone in my Jr High and High School were Kobe dickriders. To this day they'll say he's better than Jordan and say who cares about accolades. When someone else says LeBron is better however, they run to the 5 rings and other accolades/accomplishments.

GOAT that only has one MVP, which he didn't even deserve but was given to him as a lifetime award? FOH. This has nothing to do with Michael either because I've always argued that Magic was the best player ever. (I'm biased towards PGs)

If Kobe fans weren't so hypocritical and annoying I might actually root for him. Still wouldn't change my mind about Timmy being the best player in the post-Jordan era though

My kinda guy.

Edit: BTW, I really am going to try harder to just enjoy watching the great players that we currently have in the league. Don't get me wrong, I am still as anti LeBron/Wade/etc., but looking back and seeing Kobe in his hay day, and missing it now, I don't want to do the same for the current greats. Gotta try to enjoy the greats while also hating them is difficult lol.

 

[Boombloxer]

Its just kinda funny when Lakers fans always run to Kobe's prime and say that he did all of that with Smush and Mihm and Kwame etc. There were still serviceable players on that team. It definitely doesn't compare to Gordan Giricek, Andrew DeClerq, Pat Garrity, Stacey Augmon, Steven Hunter.

By the time McGrady got to Houston, he was already dead imo.

Kobe was always better, and played in a tougher conference. The T-Mac comparisons are only good for a 3 year window, just like everyone else Kobe is compared to, save MJ for career, and LBJ for regular season stats.

Old Snake has no rivals, save the greats.

 

[DY_nasty]

Kobe was always better, and played in a tougher conference. The T-Mac comparisons are only good for a 3 year window, just like everyone else Kobe is compared to, save MJ for career, and LBJ for regular season stats.

Old Snake has no rivals, save the greats.

I'll address everything else once you remove Kobe's member and accept the fact that I and others were specifically talking about 2000-2004.

Old Snake has no rivals, except the people that were better than him. Derp

 

[Gigglepoo]

Ideally the very best players of all time both get rings and into the HOF. But since getting into the HOF doesn't require a ring, I am not going to remove "one of the greatest players of all time" label from guys like Reggie Miller, Barkely, or Ewing.

Those players are just on a lower level. They weren't good enough to win the title as The Man. There's no shame in that, but there's a clear seperation.

 

[Omega]

Yeah but your going to find those kind of people everywhere.
I would argue that at this point the Lebron dickriders have achieved a whole new level riding nba dick that hasn't ever been seen. Lebron has brought in so many new oblivious fans that I have a hard time resenting the guy just for that.

Definitely.

I'm not saying it's a legit reason to not like Kobe. In fact, I wouldn't even say I don't like him it's just more that I root for the Lakers to fail.

That poll someone posted before is disgusting. KG and Duncan get no respect and they're easily Top 5 players since the post Jordan era. KG getting less votes than Nash is disgusting..

da fuck is wrong with ppl

 

[DY_nasty]

Definitely.

I'm not saying it's a legit reason to not like Kobe. In fact, I wouldn't even say I don't like him it's just more that I root for the Lakers to fail.

That poll someone posted before is disgusting. KG and Duncan get no respect and they're easily Top 5 players since the post Jordan era. KG getting less votes than Nash is disgusting..

da fuck is wrong with ppl

Kobe is by far the sexiest player on that list.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Definitely.

I'm not saying it's a legit reason to not like Kobe. In fact, I wouldn't even say I don't like him it's just more that I root for the Lakers to fail.

That poll someone posted before is disgusting. KG and Duncan get no respect and they're easily Top 5 players since the post Jordan era. KG getting less votes than Nash is disgusting..

da fuck is wrong with ppl

Yeah that is unbelievable BS. Duncan just aint flashy enough in a marketable way for the league. Which is insane.

 

[jobber]

don't worry..i'm still here!

76ers win by 20 tonight.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Yeah that is unbelievable BS. Duncan just aint flashy enough in a marketable way for the league. Which is insane.

Pssh, you can't even think of one iconic Duncan dunk. Such a lame "superstar"

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

don't worry..i'm still here!

76ers win by 20 tonight.

I was getting worried.

 

[reilo]

Pssh, you can't even think of one iconic Duncan dunk. Such a lame "superstar"

Duncan still had the better playoff 3pt bankshot over Kobe.

Sorry, Suns fans!

 

[DY_nasty]

Sixers need to do the right thing and lose.

Their fans have suffered enough.

#freemyloserbros

 

[darkside31337]

Sixers need to win tonight.

And then defeat the Heat.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Sixers need to win tonight.

And then defeat the Heat.

Sixers do need to win.

 

[Boombloxer]

I'll address everything else once you remove Kobe's member and accept the fact that I and others were specifically talking about 2000-2004.

Old Snake has no rivals, except the people that were better than him. Derp

Oh, I know, its just funny to hear these limited windows and what's ifs. Like what if Tmac actually got out of the first round in a pussy-ass conference.

Consistency counts, especially for wings. I consider Tmac great, but an underachiever.

You may continue to polish McGradys ballsack for four great years, like a college chick who peaks early. I'll take the one who keeps herself in shape.

 

[Mothman91]

Tonight is going to be funny.

76ers/Celticzzz.

Then UFC event of cans.

can't wait.

 

[DY_nasty]

Oh, I know, its just funny to hear these limited windows and what's ifs. Like what if Tmac actually got out of the first round in a pussy-ass conference.

Consistency counts, especially for wings. I consider Tmac great, but an underachiever.

You may continue to polish McGradys ballsack for four great years, like a college chick who peaks early. I'll take the one who keeps herself in shape.

How did he underachieve? He played one series with Yao and never had a bad playoff series. Hell, his last series in Houston, when he was essentially broken in half, he was playing one on five and flirted with a triple double nearly every game.

You put Kobe in Orlando and he's looking at the exact same situation. Run into the dirt.

Except, you know, without the outright quitting on his team in the third part.

 

[Gabyskra]

Oh, I know, its just funny to hear these limited windows and what's ifs.

Yeah it'd be funny if people were comparing careers, but nobody is.

Kobe dickriding fans should share their insight in the ongoing rape thread now

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Yeah it'd be funny if people were comparing careers, but nobody is.

Kobe dickriding fans should share their insight in the ongoing rape thread now

Who is this guy? Is this some alt account?

 

[twinturbo2]

What happened to Ninja Scooter?

 

[Nori Chan]

Who is this guy? Is this some alt account?

I don't know man. First he was a knicks fan, then a pacers fan, and I'm guessing he's going to be a celtics/6ers fan

 

[Mothman91]

What happened to Ninja Scooter?

Look back a page or two, someone linked his post.

 

[Vahagn]

Yeah it'd be funny if people were comparing careers, but nobody is.

Kobe dickriding fans should share their insight in the ongoing rape thread now

You said Kobe is a top 20 player, you may be so insulated as shit, but your opinions don't matter of that's your metric. They just don't. Someone calls Bird a top 20 player (same number of finals MVP's) then their opinion doesn't matter either.

Also, Kobe was elite in 2000, not 2002. He was all NBA First Team Defense and all NBA Second Team. At best, there were 10 players better than him in 2000. By 2001, he was a top 4 player.

You're blaming Kobe for not being Jordan status (because he was compared to him) when he was a teenager...at 21 he won his first chip, by 22 he was getting 28 points a game, by 23 he was finishing up his 3 peat, by 24 he had pushed Shaq along as the best player on the Lakers, only Shaq wasn't reedy to cede control.

Your views on Kobe don't mirror the accepted views, and quite frankly will be as respected as the racist views of Boston fans in arguing Bird>Magic. Kobe's a top 10 player no matter which way you slice it. There aren't 10 guys in league history with 2 finals MVP's let alone 5 rings, 5th in scoring, and the other collection of awards he has.

 

[Zep]

What happened to Ninja Scooter?

 

[DY_nasty]

Kobe being a top 20 is an insult?

goddamn

smh

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

What happened to Ninja Scooter?

Banner day for Ninja:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38175356&postcount=542

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38209262&postcount=20

 

[reilo]

Kobe being a top 20 is an insult?

goddamn

smh

Only Lakers-fans.

 

[DY_nasty]

Only Lakers-fans.

also

fuk shaq

 

[Vahagn]

Only Lakers-fans.

I know your franchise doesn't have a top 20 player, I'm sorry - but we shouldnt feel "grateful" that a top 10 player is considered top 20 by someone.

 

[reilo]

I know your franchise doesn't have a top 20 player, I'm sorry - but we shouldnt feel "grateful" that a top 10 player is considered top 20 by someone.

Uhuh, when called out, change subject!

Kobe's the 4th best Laker anyhow.

Unless you want to argue that 4 Lakers should be in the Top 10, go ahead, and let us laugh.

 

[Mothman91]

lol.

we all know Hakeem is at the top of that list.

 

[Boombloxer]

How did he underachieve? He played one series with Yao and never had a bad playoff series. Hell, his last series in Houston, when he was essentially broken in half, he was playing one on five and flirted with a triple double nearly every game.

You put Kobe in Orlando and he's looking at the exact same situation. Run into the dirt.

Except, you know, without the outright quitting on his team in the third part.

By not getting there in the first place. He gets slightly more of a pass during the Houston years.

And again, a lotta of what ifs. Only fact is that he never got out of the first round in a much weaker conference, even though he talked about how great it was to finally move out of the first round.

And he failed to set the tone in G7 that year against Dallas, and blown out by 40. This was after running off a 19-0 end to G6. I remember watching that game and rooting for him, hoping that a 2-0 lead was enough. Silly me.

So yes, short run for a few years, but that's it. Underachiever.

Uhuh, when called out, change subject!

Kobe's the 4th best Laker anyhow.

Tied with Magic for 2nd in my book, but no one can really take Kareem's spot. Soft spot for Worthy & West, Shaq's 5th.
Laker-only rankings.

 

[Omega]

You said Kobe is a top 20 player, you may be so insulated as shit, but your opinions don't matter of that's your metric. They just don't. Someone calls Bird a top 20 player (same number of finals MVP's) then their opinion doesn't matter either.

Also, Kobe was elite in 2000, not 2002. He was all NBA First Team Defense and all NBA Second Team. At best, there were 10 players better than him in 2000. By 2001, he was a top 4 player.

You're blaming Kobe for not being Jordan status (because he was compared to him) when he was a teenager...at 21 he won his first chip, by 22 he was getting 28 points a game, by 23 he was finishing up his 3 peat, by 24 he had pushed Shaq along as the best player on the Lakers, only Shaq wasn't reedy to cede control.

Your views on Kobe don't mirror the accepted views, and quite frankly will be as respected as the racist views of Boston fans in arguing Bird>Magic. Kobe's a top 10 player no matter which way you slice it. There aren't 10 guys in league history with 2 finals MVP's let alone 5 rings, 5th in scoring, and the other collection of awards he has.

'

If Bird wasn't so injury plagued, he might have been the best player ever.

He was just as talented but had known knee issues really early in his career if I'm not mistaken as well as back issues.

 

[GremlinFool]

From 2000-2004, Kobe and TMac were virtually indistinguishable, except one had ravishing post-season success with numerous indelible playoff moments, with three rings and four finals appearances and the other seemed to have wretched luck in the post-season. Performance-wise, they were basically on the same level, and any other interpretation is revisionist history.

And from 2004-2012, it's a rout in Kobe's favor. What a ridiculous argument.

 

[Vahagn]

Uhuh, when called out, change subject!

Kobe's the 4th best Laker anyhow.

Unless you want to argue that 4 Lakers should be in the Top 10, go ahead, and let us laugh.

He's actually not, and my opinion is expressed by practically everyone who follows the game. But let's ignore that for a second and suggest I thought of Kobe being top 10, magic and Kareem are ahead of him, and that's it.

Kobe has more all nba teams than Shaq, more points, more rings, as many MVP's, more scoring titles, more all nba defense teams. The only thing Shaq has over Kobe is one more finals MVP. And Shaq is top 10 too

Jordan, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird are the only players better than Kobe and even that's debatable. West isn't, Shaq isn't, Oscar isn't, Elgin isn't, Hakeem isn't, Duncan isn't.

 

[reilo]

Lakers-fans have such a short memory.

Is this the part where I point out how ridiculous the Magic/Kareem Lakers were?

Nine Finals appearances from 1980-91.

But no, please, let me hear why Kobe is GOAT.

EDIT: Lol yup. Kobe > Shaq. Stay salty, Lakers-age. 2004 was such a long time ago.

 

[Owzers]

*imagines the Heat going through the Knicks' corpse, pacers, and 76ers to get to the finals*

Let's get rid of the Eastern Conference please.

 

[Vahagn]

Every argument against Kobe you guys make is centered on What if's....when you have actual accomplishments you stop playing that game. We just measure accomplishments where Kobe's standing.


If we played that game, we could go "Jordan, Magic, Bird, Russell didn't have to go through a full rebuild in their primes, if Kobe's team had the HoF caliber quality that those stars had in their prime, Kobe could have 7 rings instead of five...Kobe's the best!"


But Laker fans don't make that argument, although its as valid as the what if arguments you all make.

 

[DY_nasty]

What about "no one even discussed" what ifs on this page is so hard to understand? 2000-2004. omg

By not getting there in the first place. He gets slightly more of a pass during the Houston years.

And again, a lotta of what ifs. Only fact is that he never got out of the first round in a much weaker conference, even though he talked about how great it was to finally move out of the first round.

And he failed to set the tone in G7 that year against Dallas, and blown out by 40. This was after running off a 19-0 end to G6. I remember watching that game and rooting for him, hoping that a 2-0 lead was enough. Silly me.

So yes, short run for a few years, but that's it. Underachiever.

Those Orlando teams without Mac are significantly worse than the worst team of all-time Charlotte Bobcats.

Again, we're talking individual performance - not what ifs, and his individual performances, especially between 2000 and 2004 were, on another level.

And if you're going to pin game 7 on Dallas on him, then give him credit for it even being a series in the first place.

Its crazy how Lakers fans love playing the "blame the #1 guy!" game only when Kobe isn't involved.

 

[Vahagn]

Lakers-fans have such a short memory.

Is this the part where I point out how ridiculous the Magic/Kareem Lakers were?

Nine Finals appearances from 1980-91.

But no, please, let me hear why Kobe is GOAT.

EDIT: Lol yup. Kobe > Shaq. Stay salty, Lakers-age. 2004 was such a long time ago.

You're the salty one. 5-9 isn't as good as 5-7. Also magic played no defense. And no one is saying Kobe is for sure better than Magic, except other Laker greats ironically. What were saying is, he doesn't have to be to still be top 10. You're literally obsessing over 4 years of dominance from Shaq and not realizing that he underachieved the rest of his career so bad that Kobe's passed him in every accolade in less seasons.

But no, in Reilo's world all that matters is 2000-2004 the NBA stopped after that

 

[reilo]

"Hey you there, you're like one of the best 20 players to ever play. From like a selection of tens-of-thousands that even made it into this league, out of hundreds of thousands of wannabes, you're top 20. I know, insulting, isn't it?"

How is Lakers-age more salty towards Shaq than other teams' fans? Ridiculous.

 

[Mxrz]

Before editing, you said "Jordan worship by the younger crowd". I don't get that feeling at all. It's more the contrary. When Kobe came into the league, he was overrated as fuck by pre-teens for example. Young blood tends to like the flavor the week, the younger generation. The Heat bandwagon is a good example of how the immature crowd rides LeBJ's dick.

Yeah. Trying to dial down my own condescending bits.

You could pretty much swap Jordan with Kobe or LeBron there at one point, yeah. But with so many people growing up amid or finding the game during the high point of Jordan mania, he does seem like the only player to take on that untouchable status. LeBron and Kobe sure haven't come close, despite the NBA desperately hyping them so hard. I've always seen more hate for them outside of LA, Cleveland & Miami.

Actually, I'd love to have seen what would've happen if Shaq hadn't imploded on the Lakers. He had the fans, the hype, the movies, and the ability if he could've just kept it up.

 

[Sanjuro]

Hey, what's going on in here?

 

[DY_nasty]

"Hey you there, you're like one of the best 20 players to ever play. From like a selection of tens-of-thousands that even made it into this league, out of hundreds of thousands of wannabes, you're top 20. I know, insulting, isn't it?"

How is Lakers-age more salty towards Shaq than other teams' fans? Ridiculous.

FUCK YOU

KOBE IS THE GREATEST PERSON IN MY LIFE