Boombloxer
Member
5 > 3
5/7
5/9
This isn't hard. I said he and Magic are tied in my eyes.
More importantly, Kobe's never had a 3rd that was as good as Worthy.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
2012 NBA Playoffs |OT3| If he dies, he dies *wink*
- Thread starter reilo
- Start date
- Status
5 > 3
5/7
5/9
This isn't hard. I said he and Magic are tied in my eyes.
More importantly, Kobe's never had a 3rd that was as good as Worthy.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Call me biased but Magic is the greatest Laker.
You're comparing the individual stats of a number one option to those of a number 2. And not because of talent either. Jordan at 23 years old would be number 2 behind Shaq, so would T Mac. When Kobe became the number one option he was a better number one option than T Mac in individual performance.
If Kobe's number one option numbers were below T Mac's we could argue something, but they're not. So why are you disingenuously arguing number 1 options vs number 2 option numbers,
If T Mac was the better player it would have bore out over time. Why don't we argue that Bernard King was better than Jerry West while we're at it
Nah, All-Defensive selections are more important.
After all, Kobe is a better defender than Tim Duncan and Scottie Pippen, combined.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
While the Kobe homerism is laughable from some of you so is the hating. I mean wow.
Even the White Mamba has more...............
I like how you guys are trying to discredit rings and defense just because it ruins your argument. Next thing you'll tell us Shaq is better than Kobe because look at the blocks numbers!
You're wrong, get over it, move on
Boombloxer
Member
Did you not read where where I mentioned their G6 run?
And the sane ones blame #1, period, that's how it is. 2008, Kobe caught it for shooting like shit and blowing a 21-point lead. He responded with two rings, and avenged one of his Finals defeats, along with the Suns. Revenge Tour was a thing of beauty.
T-Mac? Not so much. And without their respective stars, both those LA and Orlando teams are terrible.
Again, we can drop it, because we aren't going to agree, and long-term, there is no comparison.
Actually, it's more parallel. Kobe and Magic have the same amount of rings, beat the Celtics, and set numerous records over the course of their careers.
That can be argued either way. Magic had his up and downs too, from Tragic Johnson to getting his coach fired.
But winning cures everything. I wish there was something I could say about the lolcats, but you have no hope anyway, and already shout this from the high heavens, so no point.
Cloving, I can see where you're coming from, and can roll with it, no biggie.
And the Celtics are going to win anyway, I'll watch only because it's on. The real Finals start tomorrow.
Kobe has made more All-Defensive teams than Scottie Pippen.
Is Kobe a better defender than Scottie was? Y/N
Kobe has made more All-Defensive teams than Tim Duncan.
Is Kobe a better defender than Duncan is? Y/N
Kobe made All-Defensive second team this year.
Was Kobe a better defender than Tim Duncan this season? Y/N
Rings matter when your grading great players........
Is dirk a top 20 player? Serious question.....
Irrelevant because Kobe was a better defender than Magic, Shaq, T-Mac. How much better Pippen was at defense doesn't help T Mac so why bring it up?
Stay on topic, Kobe is better than T Mac and Shaq. If you want to make an argument for if Duncan is better than Kobe, that's a better argument. But you're arguing Shaq as if 2004 - hasn't happened and Kobe hasn't passed Shaq in every imaginable category besides finals MVP's in less years.
Edit: Next you'll try to argue that Malone was better than Kobe because Malone used to sweep LA. Were not in 1998 or 2004...this is 2012 - adjust your rankings accordingly
Then T-mac is better than kobe!! Jokes aside tho, IMO, dallas' title run last year alone makes dirk a top 20 player......
That's hard to quantify. How about bynum? Healthy prime bynum who learns how to pass out of the post?
I prefer talking about players that actually exist.
Well, he existed this year. Missed only what? One game due to injury?
:lol
Nobody said Kobe was better overall than T-Mac you salty housewife. There was a point in time where T-Mac was good, really fucking good, before injuries did him in at that point in both of their careers. Allen Iverson, too! Why is that such a big contentious thing to you? Kobe is better overall than T-Mac ever was, and that's indisputable.
But better than Shaq? Shaq was the undisputed #1 fucking guy that brought you many many chips and even made a young Kobe's career.
Your accolade argument is such crap because we are talking nuances between those players now -- hence why I asked you whether you think Kobe is better defender than Scottie and Timmy based on ACCOLADES.
Kobe is Top 20. Deal with it. Be proud. Don't be salty. Let go of 2004.
Only Lakers-age can look at such accomplishments and be downright bitter about it. Let go of the hate against your own damn players. Shaq is not JR Rider or Bonzi Wells. Quit treating him as if he were.
obijkenobi
Member
Wtf happened in this thread? God damn. :/
Boombloxer
Member
You know how it is.
And besides, that's why it's fun. I expect people to start posting advanced stats any minute now.
I don't think Kobe was better until later, but they were equals.
The problem was that from 2001-onward or, after the summer of good livin', they were basically equal and that wasn't gonna fly long term.
Shaq was the prime option until crunch time, but the 23-1 run? The Sacramento and San Antonio runs? 50/50.
02 was the same way, where it took Shaq 5 games to learn not to barrel over Vlade, and Kobe closed the Spurs out damn near every 4th quarter.
Finals were always a joke, because Shaq always had an advantage. Why make life hard?
When Bynum occasionally has a 30/15 game against a subpar opponent, Lakers-age explodes. That was what Shaq averaged during two years in the playoffs.
RedAssedApe
Banned
Black mamba ain't here yet.
If that was healthy prime Bynum then the Lakers need to start over yesterday.
Rodeo Clown
All aboard! The Love train!
The wait to game 7 sucks.
Lakers-age is angry that Kobe is "only a top-20 player". It's an insult. They gotta defend his honor and fall on the sword for him.
While I feel strongly about Shaq being the reason they three-peated, I'm going to have to say I agree with the idea that Kobe is better overall than Shaq.
Where me and Lakers-age don't agree, is entertaining the idea that Kobe is better than Magic. I don't give a shit if Magic says it himself. Almost everyone accept Jordan has said "this player is better than me" and it's more about being humble.
Magic has the same number of rings and more finals MVPs. What separates them in my opinion, is that Magic made everyone around him so much better.
A little while ago Lakers-age argued that Kareem and Wilt weren't held in the same pantheon because they weren't Lakers for life and joined the Lakers AFTER their prime.
Kind of unfair to also turn around and say "we'll he had Kareem!" even though he was 32. Kareem was a great player don't get me wrong, but I feel strongly that without Magic his career would not have been so successful over that long of a time period.
Again, maybe it's just my bias towards point guards. I have no problem with Kobe being second greatest Laker or Top 10. Dude is a beast and a freak of nature. He's still a Top 10 player in the game (maybe even Top 5) and he's in his 16th season.
Where me and Lakers-age don't agree, is entertaining the idea that Kobe is better than Magic. I don't give a shit if Magic says it himself. Almost everyone accept Jordan has said "this player is better than me" and it's more about being humble.
Magic has the same number of rings and more finals MVPs. What separates them in my opinion, is that Magic made everyone around him so much better.
A little while ago Lakers-age argued that Kareem and Wilt weren't held in the same pantheon because they weren't Lakers for life and joined the Lakers AFTER their prime.
Kind of unfair to also turn around and say "we'll he had Kareem!" even though he was 32. Kareem was a great player don't get me wrong, but I feel strongly that without Magic his career would not have been so successful over that long of a time period.
Again, maybe it's just my bias towards point guards. I have no problem with Kobe being second greatest Laker or Top 10. Dude is a beast and a freak of nature. He's still a Top 10 player in the game (maybe even Top 5) and he's in his 16th season.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Imo Magic made his teammates better than any other player in history.
Kobe is top 10. So is Shaq. Kobe's better than Shaq. That's not bitterness. You can act like an ass and shake your fist in the air all old man Cloving all you want. Your NBA world revolves around 2000-2004 - that's why every argument you're making is centered on a time before Kobe hit his prime. If we just looked at the 80's than Magic and Bird > Jordan
The 90's happened though, and so did 2004-2012. you're wrong, get over it and move on.
Edit: as for AI - I'm the one who recently posted that AI was a better player than any of today's golden generation of players at the PG position. But you need to get out of 2000-2004 and join us in 2012, I know Blazers have fallen off since 2000 - but it's ok...just get caught up to the present time it will all be ok...
Don't forget Cedric Ceballos and Nick Van Exel.
Don't forget Elgin Baylor!
Rodeo Clown
All aboard! The Love train!
I think you guys are forgetting Devean George.
Ash Sparrow
Banned
With the remaining teams there is no way not to get a good finals matchup!
Though thats probably been said
Though thats probably been said
The Frankman
Banned
I think someone is forgetting Sedale Threatt.
Boombloxer
Member
I thought we went over lumping everyone in one boat?
I agree with this, but he also had great teammates to work with.
The Showtime Lakers were stacked.
And Kobe and Magic are equal in my eyes.
I'm a troll? Motherfucking lol. You're not worth the 1s and 0s.
Why we even got more than one franchise anymore? Lakers already won.
I don't see anybody else trying to call him out from your camp, do you?
Call out someone for saying kobe is top 10? You crazy.
Boombloxer
Member
Because its fun to watch you two go at it.
Don't make me bring Abbott into this.
Chris Jackson ftw.
1. Magic
2. Jordan
3. Hakeem
4. Bird
5. Kareem
6. Duncan
7. Russell
8. Chamberlain
9. Kobe
10. Barkley
I don't give a shit if Barkley has no rings. Dude was a beast. One of my favorite games ever is when he dropped 56 against the Warriors in the playoffs.
I don't have West because he isn't as accomplished as Kobe and I wasn't leaving my boy Barkley off the list.
2. Jordan
3. Hakeem
4. Bird
5. Kareem
6. Duncan
7. Russell
8. Chamberlain
9. Kobe
10. Barkley
I don't give a shit if Barkley has no rings. Dude was a beast. One of my favorite games ever is when he dropped 56 against the Warriors in the playoffs.
I don't have West because he isn't as accomplished as Kobe and I wasn't leaving my boy Barkley off the list.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked