Iamwolfthing
Member
Dirk was absolutely one of the best if not the best player from 05 to 07.
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2013 Mar NBA Season lOT| Change This Face, Be Happy, Enjoy it!
- Thread starter reilo
- Start date
Dirk was absolutely one of the best if not the best player from 05 to 07.
Iamwolfthing
Member
I think he definitely was, but I'm not sure you guys would be super convinced by PER and win shares so...
bigboss370
Member
man, re-watching the end of the 4th quarter in that Lakers game, shit was nuts. Lakers still couldn't catch a break on defense and somehow they made it.
Toronto up by 5, having just made a 2, LA (Kobe) scores a 3. then Toronto scores a two, which LA(Kobe) responds to with another 3. Then Toronto scores again, and LA(Kobe) gets another 3 to tie the game! it was spectacular, a triple clutch eyegasm by Mamba
they made it by a hair, all through offense exclusively.
Toronto up by 5, having just made a 2, LA (Kobe) scores a 3. then Toronto scores a two, which LA(Kobe) responds to with another 3. Then Toronto scores again, and LA(Kobe) gets another 3 to tie the game! it was spectacular, a triple clutch eyegasm by Mamba
they made it by a hair, all through offense exclusively.
Jack Remington
Banned
Win shares... the formula that ranks Chauncey Billups in 05-06 ahead of Kobe Bryant in 05-06? You're right; no one would be super convinced.
bigboss370
Member
lol Pau looked like he was gonna faint when Kobe hit the 3 to tie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hl9aHEr27D8#t=187s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hl9aHEr27D8#t=187s
reggieandTFE
Member
Outside of Miami, the Lakers have received more coverage on ESPN than all the other teams combined. Please cut this bullshit out.
Iamwolfthing
Member
Yeah, win shares are really weird. PER is usually pretty accurate, though it has it's faults too.
Black Mamba
Member
Stuff like Win shares is good for putting players in brackets.
Like, Demar Derozan is not good. He has a well below average ws/48. Good players don't magically have bad win shares.
But trying to compare to elite level players with elite level WS/48 doesn't do much. The defensive win shares just divides team defense by 5, so Dirk gets to benefit from playing with better defenders than him while Kobe played with some bad ones those years (and Kobe has always been a much better defender).
I'm a pretty big Dirk fan as people here can attest (and argued he was the 2011 MVP). Don't think he was ever better than Kobe except for the 2011 postseason run (which Kobe was slowed badly by a bad knee and Dirk went god-tier) and '04-'05 where Kobe was hurt and missed a lot of time.
Dirk couldn't take a team playing massive minutes to Kwame, Smush, Walton, Cook, and George to the postseason in the West those years. Only other players that could have done that in the last 8 years were Lebron and Duncan (if you swap Odom for an equal guard).
edit: I should also say Dirk, as most bigs, benefit from players creating for them a lot more. Granted Dirk for himself creates a lot more than most bigs.
PER is dangerous. It overvalues shooting and ignores most defense.
There is no end-all statistic. You can look at others like APM and SPM, too.
Like, Demar Derozan is not good. He has a well below average ws/48. Good players don't magically have bad win shares.
But trying to compare to elite level players with elite level WS/48 doesn't do much. The defensive win shares just divides team defense by 5, so Dirk gets to benefit from playing with better defenders than him while Kobe played with some bad ones those years (and Kobe has always been a much better defender).
I'm a pretty big Dirk fan as people here can attest (and argued he was the 2011 MVP). Don't think he was ever better than Kobe except for the 2011 postseason run (which Kobe was slowed badly by a bad knee and Dirk went god-tier) and '04-'05 where Kobe was hurt and missed a lot of time.
Dirk couldn't take a team playing massive minutes to Kwame, Smush, Walton, Cook, and George to the postseason in the West those years. Only other players that could have done that in the last 8 years were Lebron and Duncan (if you swap Odom for an equal guard).
edit: I should also say Dirk, as most bigs, benefit from players creating for them a lot more. Granted Dirk for himself creates a lot more than most bigs.
PER is dangerous. It overvalues shooting and ignores most defense.
There is no end-all statistic. You can look at others like APM and SPM, too.
Psychological Intellect
Banned
oh damn kobr beasted last night
http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/...es-lakers-kobe-bryant-takes-even-higher-level
you're right jodie, we didn't have to fight for the eighth seed in march
you're right jodie, we didn't have to fight for the eighth seed in march
LegendofJoe
Member
While it's hilarious that the Lakers are fighting for the 8th seed you guys have to admit the prospect of another Lakers-Spurs series is freaking awesome. It will probably be the last time we get to see Duncan and Kobe competing against one another in the playoffs. I'm not a fan of either team, but it's impossible not to respect the fantastic rivalry they've had over the last 15 years. That shit is special, and I'd be pretty excited to see it go down one last time.
edit: just saw MKG's under and over one hand dunk against the Nets, shit was nasty.
edit: just saw MKG's under and over one hand dunk against the Nets, shit was nasty.
Future PhaZe
Member
I'm so sorry IWMTB
What does anything you just said have anything to do with the LeBron fellatio ESPN was pulling over inferior stats over the same period for some arbitary bullshit like BRON IS THE FIRST MAN IN THE HISTORY OF THE NBA TO POST 60% FG SHOOTING AND 30+ PPG OVER A SIX GAME PERIOD.
fuck outta here
Its amazing how many people think giving this up= punting a title run. Eventually people will learn that this is a typical night.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Dirk came pretty close to Duncan, Kobe, and KG in terms of a peak (not totally there, but close), but the fact that those guys are all top 10 all-time in terms of longevity (KG was top 10 last year and both Duncan and Kobe are probably top 7 this year which is insane for their ages and minutes played) whereas Dirk has fallen off totally since winning a title hurts him a lot in comparison.
Dirk was really important and probably second only to KG in terms of importance in this/that era with how he changed the perception of European players and big men.
Dirk was really important and probably second only to KG in terms of importance in this/that era with how he changed the perception of European players and big men.
I'm so sorry IWMTB
What does anything you just said have anything to do with the LeBron fellatio ESPN was pulling over inferior stats over the same period for some arbitary bullshit like BRON IS THE FIRST MAN IN THE HISTORY OF THE NBA TO POST 60% FG SHOOTING AND 30+ PPG OVER A SIX GAME PERIOD.
fuck outta here
maybe you should either:
1) chill out
or visit
2) cbssports.com
3) msn.foxsports.com/
4) sports.yahoo.com/
Or had D'antoni as coach, pau out, nash out 24 games, dwight back injury/elbow out 6 games and not 100%. coaching change....etc etc.
fair enough, just depends on what he means by turmoil
The East is minor league though.
I bet he told them I foul lol
Dirk had a much longer peak as an alpha-dog than KG did.
I think Dirk is still great when healthy. The talent around him has fallen off way more than he has. Duncan and KG aren't better offensively, they just have way more help
Raptors D was novak-good on that play.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
There are two sides of the court though and Duncan and KG are still the best in the league defensively.
Dirk was never great at defense though so I'm not going to judge him on that too much at the end of his career. KG and Duncan are still great at defense but someone has to score and they have guys around them who can
I still feel like Dirk also had one of the greatest runs in nba history to the finals. I don't know if the number show it but dang, was he clutch. It felt like he couldn't miss a shot from start to finish all through the playoffs.
The heat also didn't have key guys missing for 20+ games.
It's better than you guys have our draft pick. We shouldn't be allowed to ruin more NBA player's careers by drafting them.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
Like fine wine.
Red Blaster
Member
the only solution is for the raptors to be contracted
what good do they provide aside from being a doormat for opposing teams and allowing crackpots like colangelo and dwane casey gain false credibility
what good do they provide aside from being a doormat for opposing teams and allowing crackpots like colangelo and dwane casey gain false credibility
Colonel Nasty
Member
Still can't believe we pulled it out last. Worst offensive performance in a while but Parsons and Asik saved us. Pretty nice homestand coming up, lets hope we solidify our spot.
ThisWreckage
Banned
Dirk is still averaging something like 16 points a game even though he's surrounded by players on one year contracts. He hasn't gotten an easy shot the whole year because of the clowns he has to play with. Not to mention that I don't think he's fully healthy. If the Mavs load up in free agency, he's going to get ultra easy looks at the basket.
Rodeo Clown
All aboard! The Love train!
This is hilarious.
Too bad the pick will probably be #10 at best. Maybe Presti will try to trade up from there.
Red Blaster
Member
tons of good college games today for scouting draft prospects
MCW vs Otto Porter @ Noon on ESPN
Patric Young vs WCS, Alex Poythress, Archie Goodwin @ Noon on CBS
Marcus Smart @ 1:30
Fat Kevin Martin @ 2 on CBS
Zo Brown, CJ Leslie, Scott Wood, Richard Howell @ 2 on ESPN2
Jamaal Franklin @ 3:30 on NBCS
Myck Kabongo @ 4
Ben McLemore vs Isaiah Austin @ 6 on ESPN
MCW vs Otto Porter @ Noon on ESPN
Patric Young vs WCS, Alex Poythress, Archie Goodwin @ Noon on CBS
Marcus Smart @ 1:30
Fat Kevin Martin @ 2 on CBS
Zo Brown, CJ Leslie, Scott Wood, Richard Howell @ 2 on ESPN2
Jamaal Franklin @ 3:30 on NBCS
Myck Kabongo @ 4
Ben McLemore vs Isaiah Austin @ 6 on ESPN
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
I hope that MCW doesn't suck as much today because the Jazz are starting to fall into his draft range...
He has been shit his entire career.
Only dumb asses like Antoni would play him over Pau Gasol.
Lmao
victreeb3l
Member
Without Melo?
We already got live/live JR this week. Without Melo and now Stat we gon get dat werk.
nah Knicks will win.
His teammates helped carry his ass through a pretty large portion of the finals
he shot .500 or over just twice and one of them was game 3 (loss)
everything before that was amazing though