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[super-famicom]

Are gaming headsets frowned upon in this thread?

I've had my eye on the HyperX Cloud II lately and I'm wondering if anyone with experience on the original Cloud has anything to say about it.

I heard they sound pretty good, so I was just curious what people here think about them.

The only gaming headset I would consider buying is the Sennheiser HD360 Pro; otherwise I would stick with quality headphones + clip on mic. "Pro gaming" headsets feel like marketing buzz to me.

edit- Did a bit of research on the HyperX Cloud II; it looks like they are 7.1 surround headphones, which usually end up not sounding that great compared to stereo headphones at the same price point ($99). If you want directional audio, a good pair of stereo headphones will do just as great a job with positional audio.

 

[Gurthang]

Any good less than 30$ IEMs except for Piston II?

 

[HiResDes]

I picked up a pair of second hand Senn HD 25-1 which I'm pretty pleased with. I listen mostly to electronic and heavy rock and the 25's has got a nice peppy bassy sound that I like.

And now the question, I'm running the phones directly from my computer (an internal x-fi sound card) and I'm wondering about getting an usb dac/amp combo to complement them. If I get a usb dac it completely replaces the sound card for everything like media playing/streaming and games also?

Looking to spend at most £200 and narrowed it down to:

Meridian Explorer (The one I'm leaning towards, but also the most expensive)
ifi nano
HRT Microstreamer
Aune T1

I'm hoping to gain a bit more bass extension and open up the sound without turning the treble too harsh.

Any advice most welcome.

That's a waste for those headphones they're made to be quite efficient and run from most sources. They don't scale at all really.If you're soundcard is decent stick with that.

 

[HiResDes]

Any good less than 30$ IEMs except for Piston II?

Oh, check the OP.

 

[KimonoNoNo]

That's a waste for those headphones they're made to be quite efficient and run from most sources. They don't scale at all really.If you're soundcard is decent stick with that.

Thanks for saving me some dosh.

 

[Addnan]

Not sure if it is just because I have been forced to use the apple earpods for a week or what, but they are nowhere near as bad as I had imagined. Really for most people I think they are more than good enough. /possible blasphemy.

 

[opticalmace]

Des do you have a list of your complete setup somewhere? And what's your favourite pairing? Just curious.

My small collection:

Denon D2000
Klipsch S4 IEMs
Sony NWZ-A17 DAP
Headroom Micro DAC
Headroom Micro Amp
(old tattered) Grado SR-80

 

[Dynamite Ringo Matsuri]

Not sure if it is just because I have been forced to use the apple earpods for a week or what, but they are nowhere near as bad as I had imagined. Really for most people I think they are more than good enough. /possible blasphemy.

I've got a lot of very expensive phones and I use the EarPods all the time /shrug

 

[HiResDes]

Des do you have a list of your complete setup somewhere? And what's your favourite pairing? Just curious.

My small collection:

Denon D2000
Klipsch S4 IEMs
Sony NWZ-A17 DAP
Headroom Micro DAC
Headroom Micro Amp
(old tattered) Grado SR-80

My main pairing at home consists just of my Claro Halo plus and the X1... I've been selling everything to save space and prepare to move. I sold my Schiit stack, a few headphones, a record player, and passive speakers over the last few weeks. I've been tinkering with OPamps, but not hearing much of a difference to invest further on the soundcard.

 

[FoxSpirit]

I've done some testing, too, and I can never hear the difference using a pair of Fidelio X2s through a Dragonfly 1.2. Good, saves me some space and worrying about having the highest possible quality.

Also: I'm toying with the idea of returning my X2s. They sound fantastic but the highs are just too fatiguing for me.

I've listened to the sennheiser momentum over-ears a lot and they're the closest I've come to my ideal sound signature except the fact that they're closed and only have an okay soundstage (and get a bit uncomfortable after an hour). They just have this nice, slightly warm and thick sound that I find really pleasant and satisfying while also sounding fun and musical. Yet they never ever get harsh. If I could find an open, more comfortable version of that I'd be golden. So I'm looking for something with

- an open, airy sound with a good soundstage
- laid-back, non-fatiguing highs
- decent bass
- comfort (preferably over-ear)
- max $300

I tried the HD598s but they were too bright for my taste. Going to give the supposedly darker HD558 a try next. The HD650 is out of my range money-wise, and the HE300 is really hard to find here in Northern Europe.

Another option might be to keep the X2 and use an equalizer to take the edge of the treble. I mostly listen through spotify which doesn't have an equalizer, so I tried this app Boom on my mac, but it made everything sound strange and digital. I guess I could buy a FiiO E17 which has an equalizer, but seeing as I have the dragonfly it feels a bit unnecessary to have two dac/amps. Would love to hear some suggestions. I love almost everything about my X2s and it's frustrating as hell that the treble has to a dealbraker.

About that Dragonfly:
http://mustgeekout.blogspot.co.at/2013/09/geek-vs-others-v2.html
The highs are shrill because the Dragonfly is shrill. On any good phone. It's to be expected from AudioQuest and the good reviews are from people who have either warm headphones or no sensitivity to treble.

Seriously, a Sansa Clip+ trounces that thing. Plus those measurements are with no load, directly into the AP meter. How the DragonFly measures when you want actual juice from it I don't even wanna know. Oh, and the Clip+ just has the sound you like, a bit warm and full but still very resolved.

Also, I will admit: I am currently in hot love with Sony cans. The overall performance of the MDR-1A is just fantastic. And at that price point.
Plus the new MDR-Z7 is really, really good. And in contrast to the HD-800 power effective, a iPhone should drive it with ease. And 70 Ohm is just perfect and propably a result of the extra-large voice coil.

Sony's on a roll :-D

 

[threetri333]

If you were me getting the

• Sennheiser HD 650
• Bottlehead Crack with Speedball

What DAC would you need? I'm listening on my desktop. Would Modi 2 Uber or non Uber be sufficient?

 

[HiResDes]

The 598s definitely aren't all that bright so either he's extremely sensitive to treble or you're on to something. I'd go with the Sony MDR ma900 if I were him.

 

[HiResDes]

If you were me getting the

• Sennheiser HD 650
• Bottlehead Crack with Speedball

What DAC would you need? I'm listening on my desktop. Would Modi 2 Uber or non Uber be sufficient?

It doesn't really matter any entry level DAC or even a good soundcard will be sufficient.

 

[Phat Michael]

My main pairing at home consists just of my Claro Halo plus and the X1... I've been selling everything to save space and prepare to move. I sold my Schiit stack, a few headphones, a record player, and passive speakers over the last few weeks. I've been tinkering with OPamps, but not hearing much of a difference to invest further on the soundcard.

Are you changing apartments or something? Why the sell off?

im DYING to invest in a proper stereo setup - however i just dont have the space. Im looking to move out next year and i want dedicated space for my stereo setup.

 

[HiResDes]

Well I'm actually pretty poor, headphones are just one of my few Vices, but I'm cutting down because the space will be smaller and I'll have to accommodate a one year old fairly regularly.

 

[T-Matt]

Not sure if it is just because I have been forced to use the apple earpods for a week or what, but they are nowhere near as bad as I had imagined. Really for most people I think they are more than good enough. /possible blasphemy.

They are pretty good. I actually ran them through the laundry accidentally and they still work.

 

[yonder]

About that Dragonfly:
http://mustgeekout.blogspot.co.at/2013/09/geek-vs-others-v2.html
The highs are shrill because the Dragonfly is shrill. On any good phone. It's to be expected from AudioQuest and the good reviews are from people who have either warm headphones or no sensitivity to treble.

Seriously, a Sansa Clip+ trounces that thing. Plus those measurements are with no load, directly into the AP meter. How the DragonFly measures when you want actual juice from it I don't even wanna know. Oh, and the Clip+ just has the sound you like, a bit warm and full but still very resolved.

Yeah, I think this might be part of the problem. Switching back and forth, I noticed the sound with the df has some annoying glare to it as well as being more up-front and engaging which highlights the treble. Without it, the sound isn't as clear, full and lively, but it does make a difference with the treble. Sound quality is taken down a notch, though. So maybe the solution here would be to get rid of the df and get a warmer replacement. Any recommendations here for a warm dac/amp under $150? Looking at the schiit fulla, I found one guy on head.fi saying it's "warm and fun", but can't find much info on the sound signature elsewhere.

Appreciate the help, thanks.

Des, thanks for the suggestions you've provided, too. I know I'm a picky fucker, so I appreciate it.

Edit: the new FiiO E17K is supposedly warm sounding, and it has an equalizer too, so I might get one of those once I manage to sell my dragonfly.

 

[Phat Michael]

http://www.audiostream.com/content/breaking-news-not-everyone-loves-pono

"Drag fifty Budweiser guzzling guys and gals into sommelier school and let them test fine wines and let me know how definitive your results are. Take a hoard of new teenage drivers and let them review the latest super cars and let me know how definitive your results are. Ask a Timex wearer about the pros and cons of the latest Patek Philippe, or a Gap shopper about Dries Van Noten's latest line and see how informed their opinions are. The thing is, listening to music on a hi-fi can be a specialist endeavor and those of us involved in it are aware of nuance, subtlety, and shifts in performance that your non-audiophile could care less about. Which is all well and good unless one side of this coin tries to belittle the other which is obviously utter nonsense.

That's just how these things work. So while I applaud Neil Young's efforts to raise awareness for better sound quality when it comes to music reproduction, it's no surprise to me that it mainly falls on deaf ears. Music appreciation has become about cheap, free, loud and easy. In order to shift that tide it's going to take more than a few minutes A/B'ing between file resolutions."

 

[Waikis]

http://www.audiostream.com/content/breaking-news-not-everyone-loves-pono

"Drag fifty Budweiser guzzling guys and gals into sommelier school and let them test fine wines and let me know how definitive your results are. Take a hoard of new teenage drivers and let them review the latest super cars and let me know how definitive your results are. Ask a Timex wearer about the pros and cons of the latest Patek Philippe, or a Gap shopper about Dries Van Noten's latest line and see how informed their opinions are. The thing is, listening to music on a hi-fi can be a specialist endeavor and those of us involved in it are aware of nuance, subtlety, and shifts in performance that your non-audiophile could care less about. Which is all well and good unless one side of this coin tries to belittle the other which is obviously utter nonsense.

That's just how these things work. So while I applaud Neil Young's efforts to raise awareness for better sound quality when it comes to music reproduction, it's no surprise to me that it mainly falls on deaf ears. Music appreciation has become about cheap, free, loud and easy. In order to shift that tide it's going to take more than a few minutes A/B'ing between file resolutions."

Sounds like the usual bitter and elitist audiophile journo.

Just because someone doesn't believe that high res files are substantially better than Mp3s, they then assume that the person is not "interested in the sound quality of the music they listen to [or] are not all that interested in the sound quality of the music they listen to."?

Utter bullshit.

What's the point of posting this article?

 

[yonder]

I've had a chance to try both the HD 558 and 598 now, and I was pretty impressed. I owned the HD 595s for about seven years (they were my first more expensive headphone), and both the 558 and 598 are good improvements. Keep in mind I'm judging against the memory of the 595s, but I found the bass, especially on the 558, to be way better. I know the bass on the 598 and 558 get some shit, but I think it does the job well enough for general listeners who listen to a big variety of music. Hip hop makes up about a third of what I listen to, and to me the bass on the 558 was definitely adequate.

 

[SnakeXs]

Mike has started to post El-8 impressions at headfi. Even knowing who he is its hard to not get hyped.

 

[HiResDes]

I've had a chance to try both the HD 558 and 598 now, and I was pretty impressed. I owned the HD 595s for about seven years (they were my first more expensive headphone), and both the 558 and 598 are good improvements. Keep in mind I'm judging against the memory of the 595s, but I found the bass, especially on the 558, to be way better. I know the bass on the 598 and 558 get some shit, but I think it does the job well enough for general listeners who listen to a big variety of music. Hip hop makes up about a third of what I listen to, and to me the bass on the 558 was definitely adequate.

To each his own

 

[SteveO409]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B3QD94O/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Deal is 62% Claimed
Deal Price: $169.99

Not as good as the previous $150 but still nice

 

[Phat Michael]

Sounds like the usual bitter and elitist audiophile journo.

Just because someone doesn't believe that high res files are substantially better than Mp3s, they then assume that the person is not "interested in the sound quality of the music they listen to [or] are not all that interested in the sound quality of the music they listen to."?

Utter bullshit.

What's the point of posting this article?

Because it's correct. Did you read the whole Thing?

 

[andylsun]

Mike has started to post El-8 impressions at headfi. Even knowing who he is its hard to not get hyped.

Ooh! Probably going to get a pair once they are available. Want to try something that's not a dynamic driver, so either planar magnetic or electrostatic. Seriously thinking about Stax (307) or EL-8.

Do I need them? No.

Do I want them? Oh yes

 

[Phat Michael]

Ooh! Probably going to get a pair once they are available. Want to try something that's not a dynamic driver, so either planar magnetic or electrostatic. Seriously thinking about Stax (307) or EL-8.

Do I need them? No.

Do I want them? Oh yes

Do you have an amp for the electrostats?

You looking at closed or open backed EL-8?

 

[Dynamite Ringo Matsuri]

Ooh! Probably going to get a pair once they are available. Want to try something that's not a dynamic driver, so either planar magnetic or electrostatic. Seriously thinking about Stax (307) or EL-8.

Do I need them? No.

Do I want them? Oh yes

You should look into a Stax 2170 system. It's very affordable at about $600-ish but can legitimately go up against systems costing far, far more.

 

[Tommy DJ]

Because it's correct. Did you read the whole Thing?

He's still wrong. Even if we can tell the difference between a high resolution and a not high resolution format, it doesn't matter if the end result is bad. The problem is that the end result is frequently bad. No high resolution format is going to make Coldplay's discography anything more than a technical abomination.

Perhaps the whole Pono and Tidal doodads might encourage better mastering but high resolution formats will never save a terrible master. Like, the original Vertigo releases of Dire Straits' discography is better than their SACD variants. This is sadly a frequent occurrence.

 

[Phat Michael]

He's still wrong. Even if we can tell the difference between a high resolution and a not high resolution format, it doesn't matter if the end result is bad. The problem is that the end result is frequently bad. No high resolution format is going to make Coldplay's discography anything more than a technical abomination.

Perhaps the whole Pono and Tidal doodads might encourage better mastering but high resolution formats will never save a terrible master. Like, the original Vertigo releases of Dire Straits' discography is better than their SACD variants. This is sadly a frequent occurrence.

I agree on that point. A bad recording/mastering is bad no matter if hi res format or standard mp3.

I think he's pointing out that when people say "there is no difference between a hi res file and an Mp3" that is BS just because someone who is not use to listening to this music can't hear the difference. On that point I agree with him completely.

 

[Tommy DJ]

I agree on that point. A bad recording/mastering is bad no matter if hi res format or standard mp3.

I think he's pointing out that when people say "there is no difference between a hi res file and an Mp3" that is BS just because someone who is not use to listening to this music can't hear the difference. On that point I agree with him completely.

Its still a dumb point. Most people are ripping the Pono apart because its a functionally bad media player that doesn't make bad music, which Pono sells on their webstore, sound better.

I can't find it but someone took a quick look at Pono's music store. Basically they're putting heavy emphasis on bit depth and sample rate and not much else. Something he noticed was that where they could have used MFSL remasters, they chose not to. That's not to say MFSL is particularly consistent in quality but it seems like a huge missed opportunity for an audiophile webstore.

If you told me to tell you the difference between a high resolution version of a Mylo Xyloto, 320CBR and V0, I honestly wouldn't be able to nor would I care. This is likely the case with most people talking about the Pono. If the Pono was selling the public better quality music, I think most people would be far less cynical and far more receptive to it. But right now it feels like a old man yelling at the world that he couldn't listen to music for 15 years because it had insufficient resolution. Or something.

 

[EndlessSky]

So I read the OP and looked through the recommendations in my price range, but i still feel a little lost. I've never spent more than $20 on IEMs (or headphones for that matter) but in the last 6 months all my cheap $15 Best Buy IEMs have broken rather quickly, where they use to last a few months. So now I'm ready to spend a little more on some decent IEMs. I don't want to spend more than $60. I saw these Sony XBA-1 IEMs are on sale for $53 when they usually cost $78, so I'm inclined to get these as it seems like it's the most bang for my buck. Does anyone recommend them? The main things I'm looking for is great durability and good sound cancellation. Sound quality comes second, but it has to still be good.

Edit: I actually just noticed those in ears are offered for $15 refurbished Sony factory sealed with a 90 day warranty from an amazon seller. Should I jump on that, or should I stay away from refurbs?

Edit 2: Ended up buying the MOE SS01 since it had good reviews, and the above mentioned Sony one had reviews saying it was rather quiet and not great durability.

 

[Waikis]

Because it's correct. Did you read the whole Thing?

You don't think that the statement "the person is not interested in the sound quality of the music they listen to [or] are not all that interested in the sound quality of the music they listen to.?" is an over generalisation fallacy?

I don't believe that FLAC provides a substantially better experience than a properly encoded MP3. This is after A/Bing numerous samples with different DACs (e.g. Lampizator, Auralic, Metrum and AMR). After all these efforts, do you still think that I'm not interested in the SQ of the music I listen to?
Tyll from InnerFidelity also doesn't believe that there is a wide gap between FLAC and MP3, is he a person who doesn't care about SQ either?



and as for this statement from audiostream's article:

In addition to the NY Post and Gizmodo, Ars Technica has weighed in on Pono as has David Pogue of Yahoo. The verdict? People can't really tell the difference between high res files and lower resolutions,

Has the writer actually read the articles posted?
From NYPost with a quote from Lampizator's designer (one of the best high-end DAC in the market):

The benefits of hi-res files may be detectable on high-dollar stereo systems, but “the difference is so miniscule that it’s not even worth talking about,” according to Fikus.

And Ars:

The bad

No amount of testing made 192kHz/24-bit FLAC audio sound noticeably better than high-quality MP3s.

There's a difference between NO difference and SLIGHT difference which is ultimately inconsequential for some people.


And the final quote:

Music appreciation has become about cheap, free, loud and easy. In order to shift that tide it's going to take more than a few minutes A/B'ing between file resolutions.

Yes let's ignore the all progress we've made in bringing high quality audio components to the mainstream market. Let's forget Schiit, GeekOut, the multitudes of mid-fi cans that didn't exist 10 years ago.


tldr: I don't mind a good discussion now and then on the merits of lossless vs lossy format. However, the writer of the article made a hasty generalisation with the statement that people who can't detect any difference can't have been invested in SQ.
I don't see any value in linking this article as it doesn't add anything to the discussion.

 

[Helmholtz]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00L510XIC/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Thanks for the recommendation (and thanks for those hip-hop roundup threads, found some good stuff from those).
Edit: Ordered those from amazon.ca

 

[Phat Michael]

tldr: I don't mind a good discussion now and then on the merits of lossless vs lossy format. However, the writer of the article made a hasty generalisation with the statement that people who can't detect any difference can't have been invested in SQ.
I don't see any value in linking this article as it doesn't add anything to the discussion.

I think the major crux of his argument and the message revolves around this:

The thing is, listening to music on a hi-fi can be a specialist endeavor and those of us involved in it are aware of nuance, subtlety, and shifts in performance that your non-audiophile could care less about. Which is all well and good unless one side of this coin tries to belittle the other which is obviously utter nonsense.

I agree with the bolded 100%. I have noticed this particular subforum incredibly condescending when it comes to anyone purchasing headphones or equipment above a certain price range, or when listening to hi def music.

It happened to me multiple times. I bought a new amp "Why does an amp need to be that big? Why spend so much you cant tell the difference anyway on a blind A to B Test"

I bought a new cable "LOL all signals are digital! who cares? just get a $5 USB cable no difference 9/10 blind testers cant tell the difference!"

I buy new headphones - the argument comes out that there is no reason to spend $2K on a set of Audeze when i could get something 90% of the way for $300.

The thing is - there is no point sharing information or purchases when the general consensus here is that anything above $300 is overpriced and unnecessary. Or that no one can tell the difference between DSD/Lossless/320kbps MP3.

I dont make fun of people for choosing headphones below a certain price range, but i notice that if someone buys something nice they are ridiculed for doing so - why is this? Why does it affect you?

That is the point of the article - just because you cant tell the difference in sound quality OR dont find it important - it doesnt mean that others cant either. If i'm not going around saying cheap headphones are crap, why are others saying that all expensive equipment is overpriced and has no value? who cares - instead of shitting on people for doing this, just enjoy what you are listening to but understand that other people have different budgets/priorities.

There is no need to be so condescending every time someone says they like a nice pair of headphones/amp/Dac/cables - just because you dont think it is important or worth the money.

 

[Tommy DJ]

Well no one has ever said that spending cash on expensive headphones is a waste of money. Most people have merely said that you don't get a whole lot spending much more. That and a lot of high end audiophile stuff is secretly extremely terrible. Both statements are true.

Audiophiles often face a fair bit of ridicule because many hold onto very erroneous beliefs and get extremely defensive when presented with conflicting information or opinions. Heck, just yesterday some bloke got ultra defensive when I explained to him why high output impedance amplifiers are terrible for low impedance headphones and IEMs. I don't see how an uncontrollable random EQ is anything but objectively terrible but apparently everything in audio is completely subjective. Sorry but you've bought a bad product. If it sounds good to you, that's fine but it doesn't change the fact it still bad.

This issue is especially apparent when you start questioning the quality of their equipment. When Purrin trashed the Meridian Explorer on Head-Fi, a good number of owners got extremely defensive and claimed he had hearing issues and had some secret agenda. Tyll from Inner Fidelity vindicated his opinion by measuring its astronomically high output impedance. The condensation, from both sides, come when both sides refuse to hear the other out and one side takes it a bit harder since they've invested thousands of dollars into equipment that is being questioned.

Serious speaking, I don't doubt that Oppo HA-1 sounds very nice. It is a extremely deep (dimension-wise) headphone amplifier, even you have to admit that, and to the majority of people it looks kind of comical on a desk. Even I was shocked at its size when you showed us images of it and you can't say that I've never seen high end equipment before. I remember that post and I don't think he was exactly trashing your choice in amplification.

 

[HiResDes]

I've started checking out various OPamps on my Claro Halo and I suspect that either the stock JRC chip that's in it is vastly underrated or people's opinions are quite biased against budget chips. The LM456 is the only chip so far that's really any more detailed sounding and that can be purchased for a mere $3. I think soundcards and amps are so optimized for whatever chip is in them that it mostly doesn't make any sense to fiddle with it, unless you can find something extremely similar to the stock chip.

 

[Phat Michael]

Well no one has ever said that spending cash on expensive headphones is a waste of money. Most people have merely said that you don't get a whole lot spending much more. That and a lot of high end audiophile stuff is secretly extremely terrible. Both statements are true.

Audiophiles often face a fair bit of ridicule because many hold onto very erroneous beliefs and get extremely defensive when presented with conflicting information or opinions. Heck, just yesterday some bloke got ultra defensive when I explained to him why high output impedance amplifiers are terrible for low impedance headphones and IEMs. I don't see how an uncontrollable random EQ is anything but objectively terrible but apparently everything in audio is completely subjective. Sorry but you've bought a bad product. If it sounds good to you, that's fine but it doesn't change the fact it still bad.

This issue is especially apparent when you start questioning the quality of their equipment. When Purrin trashed the Meridian Explorer on Head-Fi, a good number of owners got extremely defensive and claimed he had hearing issues and had some secret agenda. Tyll from Inner Fidelity vindicated his opinion by measuring its astronomically high output impedance. The condensation, from both sides, come when both sides refuse to hear the other out and one side takes it a bit harder since they've invested thousands of dollars into equipment that is being questioned.

Serious speaking, I don't doubt that Oppo HA-1 sounds very nice. It is a extremely deep (dimension-wise) headphone amplifier, even you have to admit that, and to the majority of people it looks kind of comical on a desk. Even I was shocked at its size when you showed us images of it and you can't say that I've never seen high end equipment before. I remember that post and I don't think he was exactly trashing your choice in amplification.

Diminishing returns affects everything. You have to spend a hell of a lot of money to get that extra 5-10% in clarity whatever else you are looking for. I dont know what you mean by "secretly terrible" - it may not be worth the money...but "terrible" is a pretty subjective opinion.

I also think expensive is relative. i got my HD800s for $999 - some may think that is expensive but i think that is such good value for what is often considered one of the top 3 sets on the planet.

I often notice that people question equipment that they have never actually heard. That i think is really stupid.

I dont mind people questioning or asking me why i bought something - but the attitude is never appreciated, particularly when it is so condescending. It's amazing how far people will go out of their way to push their viewpoint across that something doesnt matter (Cables/DACs etc) - if someone has purchased the product and likes it, then why waste your time researching quotes from random people which highlights how one person couldnt tell the difference?

Audio is very subjective (although what you said about a high output amplifier and IEMs is true and factual) - for every article you cite about cables being a waste of time, you can find one about how someone installing a Nordost Heimdall 2 completely changed the way someones system sounded. Is that person a liar, maybe, or maybe the cable does sound different and they are happy with it?

I will be getting my new cables for my LCD3s and HD800s in the next week or so. Im going to post a review before and after on Head-fi - i thought of doing the same thing here but the culture is so toxic about this kind of thing that i really dont see the point.

I can predict the responses already:

- Cables dont make a difference
- what a waste of money
- they just look good, what a waste.
- typical "audiophile" - just wasting money for no good reason.

So in a forum meant to discuss headphones, i cant actually do this because there will be 4-5 people ready to jump down my throat because I appreciate something that they dont.

 

[Waikis]

I think the major crux of his argument and the message revolves around this:



I agree with the bolded 100%. I have noticed this particular subforum incredibly condescending when it comes to anyone purchasing headphones or equipment above a certain price range, or when listening to hi def music.

I can only comment on the article since I don't follow this thread that closely. TommyDJ has covered most of the points anyway and I also feel that no one has ever said that buying an expensive Headphone/Amp/Dac wouldn't provide you with a better experience (aside from that one random dude who came in once and shitted on everyone).

Which is all well and good unless one side of this coin tries to belittle the other which is obviously utter nonsense.

On the topic of High res files, I agree that most newcomers should be more open-minded and accept the possibility that Lossless may provide a substantially better experience.

However, in dealing with those who rejects this notion, the solution can't be to then make a hasty generalisation which boils down to "if you don't think that FLAC/DSD is much better than MP3 then you are probably using beats from an Iphone" because what you are doing is just as bad. High res files and cables are divisive topics even among industry veterans. To make such over sweeping statement is foolish and disrespectful.

 

[Bloodember]

Hmm, I actually agree with almost everything Phat Michael posted in his last two posts, which is odd. Good job, nice to see people stick up for what they believe.

I'd like to see those reviews when your done with them, Phat Michael.

 

[Phat Michael]

Hmm, I actually agree with almost everything Phat Michael posted in his last two posts, which is odd. Good job, nice to see people stick up for what they believe.

I'd like to see those reviews when your done with them, Phat Michael.

Cheers mate. Im not trying to cause problems but i also think we need to let people post their opinions and express themselves without shitting on everything they say. It gets really annoying and it is why i find the community at headfi a lot more positive, welcoming and less snarky.

These cables are really good and are relatively less expensive than some of the big name brand. The ones im getting are the Norne Draug 2 terminated in XLR Balanced ends for both the HD800s and LCD3.

 

[Bloodember]

Cheers mate. Im not trying to cause problems but i also think we need to let people post their opinions and express themselves without shitting on everything they say. It gets really annoying and it is why i find the community at headfi a lot more positive, welcoming and less snarky.

These cables are really good and are relatively less expensive than some of the big name brand. The ones im getting are the Norne Draug 2 terminated in XLR Balanced ends for both the HD800s and LCD3.

I hear ya, that's the main reason I don't post in here that often, I've seen the criticism and got it for what I bought also. I use Shure headphones, the srh550DJ and the srh1840, they have the sound signature I'm looking for and I'm happy with them, I've noticed that many in this thread don't like Shure, for some reason.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Well no one has ever said that spending cash on expensive headphones is a waste of money.

Demonstrably untrue.

 

[NotBacon]

Diminishing returns affects everything. You have to spend a hell of a lot of money to get that extra 5-10% in clarity whatever else you are looking for. I dont know what you mean by "secretly terrible" - it may not be worth the money...but "terrible" is a pretty subjective opinion.

I also think expensive is relative. i got my HD800s for $999 - some may think that is expensive but i think that is such good value for what is often considered one of the top 3 sets on the planet.

I often notice that people question equipment that they have never actually heard. That i think is really stupid.

I dont mind people questioning or asking me why i bought something - but the attitude is never appreciated, particularly when it is so condescending. It's amazing how far people will go out of their way to push their viewpoint across that something doesnt matter (Cables/DACs etc) - if someone has purchased the product and likes it, then why waste your time researching quotes from random people which highlights how one person couldnt tell the difference?

Audio is very subjective (although what you said about a high output amplifier and IEMs is true and factual) - for every article you cite about cables being a waste of time, you can find one about how someone installing a Nordost Heimdall 2 completely changed the way someones system sounded. Is that person a liar, maybe, or maybe the cable does sound different and they are happy with it?

I will be getting my new cables for my LCD3s and HD800s in the next week or so. Im going to post a review before and after on Head-fi - i thought of doing the same thing here but the culture is so toxic about this kind of thing that i really dont see the point.

I can predict the responses already:

- Cables dont make a difference
- what a waste of money
- they just look good, what a waste.
- typical "audiophile" - just wasting money for no good reason.

So in a forum meant to discuss headphones, i cant actually do this because there will be 4-5 people ready to jump down my throat because I appreciate something that they dont.

Everything is cool man. It's your choice if you want to spend the extra money to get a 5% gain here, a 10% gain there. Headphone cables can even make a difference, I've noticed this myself going between the cable from my HE-400 and HE-560 on my 560. And you do have to be careful once you get up in those price ranges because, like Tommy DJ said, you can come across products that are truly terrible and aimed towards those that just want to spend the most money possible.

Side notes:
- Oppo HA-1 still looks funny
- Digital cables are still the worst 'snake oil' offender. Something that is properly shielded and ensures the 1's and 0's get across intact (~$20) is as good as it gets. Higher quality materials aren't going to make a 1 or 0 sound better.

 

[HiResDes]

I can only comment on the article since I don't follow this thread that closely. TommyDJ has covered most of the points anyway and I also feel that no one has ever said that buying an expensive Headphone/Amp/Dac wouldn't provide you with a better experience (aside from that one random dude who came in once and shitted on everyone).



On the topic of High res files, I agree that most newcomers should be more open-minded and accept the possibility that Lossless may provide a substantially better experience.

However, in dealing with those who rejects this notion, the solution can't be to then make a hasty generalisation which boils down to "if you don't think that FLAC/DSD is much better than MP3 then you are probably using beats from an Iphone" because what you are doing is just as bad. High res files and cables are divisive topics even among industry veterans. To make such over sweeping statement is foolish and disrespectful.

I'm with Tommy. The average person won't be able to tell the difference between a well encoded MP3 and FLAC...To think otherwise is factually incorrect, as there are few that can hear the frequencies lost in the transition and be able to pick out the lossless tracks when played at the same volume on the same source in a blind test. I think a lot of people that sink money truly believe that there are seeing exponentially better results or getting true bang for the buck in terms in terms of the quality of sound that comes with better equipment, but these differences will appear to be quite diminishing returns for the average person. Great headphone equipment doesn't have to cost thousands of dollars to build. Lossless files while nice and flexible, simply aren't a necessity. No one here is giving anybody shit for buying expensive stuff to try and get to that extra five or ten percent point, but I think it's equally important to note that the point of entry isn't really that high to get some quality. There's a lot of newcomers coming into this thread, and I'd hate for them to waste money on something they don't need to....

I hear ya, that's the main reason I don't post in here that often, I've seen the criticism and got it for what I bought also. I use Shure headphones, the srh550DJ and the srh1840, they have the sound signature I'm looking for and I'm happy with them, I've noticed that many in this thread don't like Shure, for some reason.

I've never seen you post, so I don't even know how you received criticism when you're a ghost. I think Shure's lower end offerings just don't have the value it used to, and many of there offerings are a bit too treble happy for many . people.

 

[Phat Michael]

Everything is cool man. It's your choice if you want to spend the extra money to get a 5% gain here, a 10% gain there. Headphone cables can even make a difference, I've noticed this myself going between the cable from my HE-400 and HE-560 on my 560. And you do have to be careful once you get up in those price ranges because, like Tommy DJ said, you can come across products that are truly terrible and aimed towards those that just want to spend the most money possible.

Side notes:
- Oppo HA-1 still looks funny
- Digital cables are still the worst 'snake oil' offender. Something that is properly shielded and ensures the 1's and 0's get across intact (~$20) is as good as it gets. Higher quality materials aren't going to make a 1 or 0 sound better.

lol cmon man the HA-1 is gorgeous! i know is big but the fit and finish is REALLY good.

As if that's not pretty!

Are you using an amp for your HE's? Post some pics of your setup.

What do you think of the new Hifiman amp and HE-1000's? I posted a few pics earlier and i think they look amazing...

 

[Phat Michael]

I'm with Tommy. The average person won't be able to tell the difference between a well encoded MP3 and FLAC...To think otherwise is factually incorrect, as there are few that can hear the frequencies lost in the transition and be able to pick out the lossless tracks when played at the same volume on the same source in a blind test. I think a lot of people that sink money truly believe that there are seeing exponentially better results or getting true bang for the buck in terms in terms of the quality of sound that comes with better equipment, but these differences will appear to be quite diminishing returns for the average person. Great headphone equipment doesn't have to cost thousands of dollars to build. Lossless files while nice and flexible, simply aren't a necessity.

That's fine and i agree with you - all im saying is that if someone does decide to do an upgrade or purchase you dont agree with, then dont jump down their throat because of it or ridicule them for doing so.

Also, that is what the article is saying, the average person CANT tell the difference between MP3/FLAC/DSD - however someone who is into audio and studies it WILL be able to - that is entirely what the article is about.

 

[HiResDes]

Oh for sure. There are some that can, many audiophiles have great ears, but I don't think it's an ability that's necessarily able to be learned. If you've done damage to your ears or realize you can't hear anything above 20hz it's very likely that you never will, no matter what or how you're listening to music.

 

[Jay Sosa]

Hi, since my Klipsch S4's cables broke I'm looking for new IEs...and I remember there being a huge ass list with basically all IEs on the market right now with some short summary and sorted by price. Unfortunately I can't find it to save my life, anyone got an idea? Pretty sure I saw it posted on GAF a couple of times.. Thanks in advance!

EDIT: Thanks man!

 

[HiResDes]

Hi, since my Klipsch S4's cables broke I'm looking for new IEs...and I remember there being a huge ass list with basically all IEs on the market right now with some short summary and sorted by price. Unfortunately I can't find it to save my life, anyone got an idea? Pretty sure I saw it posted on GAF a couple of times.. Thanks in advance!

http://theheadphonelist.com/headphone-list/

 

[Jay Sosa]

Btw... any recommendations for:

IE up to 80$ with decent to good sound (in that price range obviously), great isolation(that's most important to me), minimal microphonics and if possible tangle free cables?