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[Quixzlizx]

ANYWAY
surprise surprise someone can have different reactions to different things, one child dying as a result of the parents thinking they're doing the right thing =/= serial killing and genocide in my mind, maybe it does in yours.. but OKAY

OK, but you don't actually "personally find it a bit dumb to find someone criminally responsible when they thought they were doing the right thing." You find it a bit dumb to find these particular people criminally responsible when they thought they were doing the right thing.

Or, more generally, you're only going to apply this train of thought to people who are relatively close to your moral and cultural sensibilities. Which was what I was pointing out in my original response to you, if you want to ignore the intentionally extreme example I used.

 

[msv]

Ehhh I wouldn't say as flawed, it's quite a bit different from affluenza which strikes me as just a shield rich people like to use to get away with shit. I just personally find it a bit dumb to find someone criminally responsible when they thought they were doing the right thing, whether the law agrees is something else entirely.

It is the same. You're conveniently leaving out the fact that there is such a thing as common knowledge, and there is an expectancy of capability when you decide to take care of a baby.

You have to actively dismiss commonly accepted knowledge. It's impossible not to know that medical doctors are the one to go to with health issues. They chose to ignore or go counter to that. That is their decision. Putting this on 'ignorance' is absolutely, patently, ridiculous. The only way they should get any form of reduced or mitigated sentence is if they are found mentally impaired.

 

[darscot]

The parents were criminally negligent, but how is a court going to find them guilty when it represents a country that allows the existence of such pseudoscience?

The two are in no way connected. Its a free country you can believe whatever you like. We can't just say its illegal to pray for a cure or go see the Shaman if that is what you believe. If you feel the polar bear swim provides relief to your pains have it it. The line is drawn when you literally sit and watch a child die and refuse to take him to free medical services provided. This child suffered for weeks and the parents refused to act. A sentence to attempt to rehabilitate them would be ideal. Locking them up and throwing away the key is pointless. They should have their children removed and I would expect several years before we could deem them suitable again. No idea how this will turn out though

 

[pr0cs]

Surprised it wasn't in BC considering all the hippies etc.
Crazy people all over the place I suppose.

The couple have several children, kids born after the one that just died.
Wonder if there will be any push to determine the jeopardy of the surviving children

 

[Tempy]

If they still haven't realized their snake oil is useless compared to modern medicine, especially after the death of one of their children, then definitely take their other kids away from them.

 

[Brian Griffin]

This would be a horrible thing to happen to anyone, kid or adult, but since it was a toddler in this case it hits me a bit harder. I have a 3 year old and she is so sweet and trusting she would believe anything I told her and eat/drink anything I gave her if she was sick.

I guarantee that poor boy trusted his parents to make him better all the way to the end and never once thought they didn't love him. At least he never actually knew what monsters his parents actually are.

 

[SuperBowser]

The parents learnt nothing. It's flabbergasting they say they went "above and beyond" in providing care to their son when you read their account of what happened. They describe a consistently deteriorating child whom they neglected until it died. All I read is an idiot using Google. An idiot trying to perform a medical examination. An idiot that minimises/ignores symptoms that indicate deterioration. An idiot that ignored advice from a nurse. An idiot that sees natural remedies failing but sits on their hands and keeps giving them.

Even at the very end, the father says he let his son "sleep off" his breathing difficulties. Like. Come on. This is neglect.

 

[Kinitari]

So you'd be OK with not punishing someone who goes around killing Muslims because he truly believes they're all terrorists?

You need to be close enough to society's ethical consensus to not be dangerous.

I see where you're going, but what complicates this is that the societal wide consensus, and the legal requirements are vague here.

It's very clear that murdering people is illegal, the government isn't ambiguous about this. It's less clear that treating your child with fake medicine that you believe is real medicine is illegal.

 

[Quixzlizx]

I see where you're going, but what complicates this is that the societal wide consensus, and the legal requirements are vague here.

It's very clear that murdering people is illegal, the government isn't ambiguous about this. It's less clear that treating your child with fake medicine that you believe is real medicine is illegal.

I don't think it's the use of fake medicine, but that they let the child's condition deteriorate over a matter of weeks while knowing that their medical "knowledge" was in direct opposition to science and the vast majority of the country. You'd think if they cared about their child's life more than validating their beliefs, they'd at least get a second opinion after their treatments did nothing.

 

[gwarm01]

Homeopathic treatments should be pulled from the shelves and the practice of naturopathy banned. Any naturopath claiming to be a physican should be charged with prescribing medicine without a license.

What really makes me sick is that some states allow naturopaths to prescribe actual medicine too. So they get a woo woo "education" and when their herbal supplements don't work they can prescribe medicine that they are in no way qualified to handle. It's disgusting.

 

[Kinitari]

I don't think it's the use of fake medicine, but that they let the child's condition deteriorate over a matter of weeks while knowing that their medical "knowledge" was in direct opposition to science and the vast majority of the country. You'd think if they cared about their child's life more than validating their beliefs, they'd at least get a second opinion after their treatments did nothing.

They did, they went to what the believed to be the best doctor possible - a naturopathic doctor, who as far as I understand, has an MD in their name. He/she gave then some bullshit medicine, and in their near religious zeal to believe it's efficacy, saw improvements in their dying son.

It's only when he stopped breathing did they even for a second think that they were doing wrong. The most damming thing to me is that in all this, when they got real scared (which was too late) they went with the real medicine.

I don't think they are blameless, and I do think that taking their children away is probably for the best, but I also think that the government here is not without blame. It allows the legitimizing of bullshit medicine, it sells homeopathic medicine in pharmacies, it lends legitimacy to woo doctors by providing them certifications. It doesn't do enough to vocalize that the blog posts they get linked to on Facebook telling them about the 10 best times a naturopath cured cancer is not something you should take as legitimate medical advice... Although I might draw the line there, but still.

 

[Quixzlizx]

They did, they went to what the believed to be the best doctor possible - a naturopathic doctor, who as far as I understand, has an MD in their name. He/she gave then some bullshit medicine, and in their near religious zeal to believe it's efficacy, saw improvements in their dying son.

It's only when he stopped breathing did they even for a second think that they were doing wrong. The most damming thing to me is that in all this, when they got real scared (which was too late) they went with the real medicine.

I don't think they are blameless, and I do think that taking their children away is probably for the best, but I also think that the government here is not without blame. It allows the legitimizing of bullshit medicine, it sells homeopathic medicine in pharmacies, it lends legitimacy to woo doctors by providing them certifications. It doesn't do enough to vocalize that the blog posts they get linked to on Facebook telling them about the 10 best times a naturopath cured cancer is not something you should take as legitimate medical advice... Although I might draw the line there, but still.

I agree that our governments should gather some courage and declare that naturopathy is bullshit, both vocally and through regulation.

 

[Stinkles]

Reading the article and hearing them talk I can't help but feel like they 100% believed that what they were doing was helping their kid. The fathers family business is predicated on these beliefs. It's such an integral part of who they are, and is validated by things like health insurance coverage and official court rulings like the one mentioned in the article... How can we say they should have known better?

Which is why this stuff should be harshly and seriously regulated and in this case, outlawed.

 

[zedge]

Surprised it wasn't in BC considering all the hippies etc.
Crazy people all over the place I suppose.

The couple have several children, kids born after the one that just died.
Wonder if there will be any push to determine the jeopardy of the surviving children

No it's just us rednecks in Alberta didn't you know. :rolleyes

Really hate this country sometimes. So much regionalistic viritol and bullshit.

Anyway, these parents are idiots as are all anti vaxxers and homeopaths. The people pushing this stuff should be held accountable for spreading miss information and criminal negligence. As should the parents.

 

[zashga]

Believing you're doing the right thing isn't the same thing as actually doing the right thing; I don't see how honest belief in bullshit in any way absolves these parents of blame. They're privileged to live in a time and place where their child didn't have to die. Bare minimum, their other children need to be cared for by someone who takes that responsibility seriously.

It also bothers me in cases like this when people say something to the effect of "they lost their child, isn't that punishment enough?" That only makes any kind of sense to me if you think of the child as their property instead of its own person.

 

[Kinitari]

Believing you're doing the right thing isn't the same thing as actually doing the right thing; I don't see how honest belief in bullshit in any way absolves these parents of blame. They're privileged to live in a time and place where their child didn't have to die. Bare minimum, their other children need to be cared for by someone who takes that responsibility seriously.

It also bothers me in cases like this when people say something to the effect of "they lost their child, isn't that punishment enough?" That only makes any kind of sense to me if you think of the child as their property instead of its own person.

Well I think a lot of it boils down to what model of criminal justice system we want - punitive or rehabilitative. I don't care for punitive measures for the sake of punishment, if it's someone that is a danger to society then absolutely, if it's someone who is no danger (and I use danger loosely, for example someone who steals cars a lot should be kept away until we can be relatively sure he/she'll stop) then the goal should be to correct the problem, and to understand why it happened and try to prevent it from happening again in the future.

I go back to my analogy of some button - if there is a button on a table and a bunch of people tell you that pressing it is good, and that it will help people, and some other people are saying dont press it, it's bad - it's really hard sometimes to understand who to trust - this is why we have governments who can come in and say "pressing that button is illegal". When it comes to the complexities of natural medicine, and how we as a society and further our government bodies fail to highlight the dangers, fail to prevent the proliferation for 'remedies' and allow for the validation of these treatments through government sanctioned licensing processes... we have a hand to play in the death of children.

It's like throwing someone in jail for painting their house with lead paint, but not disallowing the sale of lead paint - if it's their on the shelf, the assumption is the government is okay with it being there.

 

[Simon Belmont]

Found guilty and rightfully so.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/calgary/meningitis-trial-verdict-1.3552941

 

[Savitar]

Found guilty and rightfully so.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/calgary/meningitis-trial-verdict-1.3552941

Good.

They deserve to spend time in jail for this.

Disgusting what they did and did not do.

 

[Simon Belmont]

Good.

They deserve to spend time in jail for this.

Disgusting what they did and did not do.

Yep. More disgusting is them doubling down on their snake oil since this happened. These folks aren't fit to be parents, and that's not something I'd throw around casually.

 

[Kinitari]

I'm mostly happy, but I really hope this starts a conversation about what we, as a country, are doing about the peddling of fake medicine. I should look into this more.

 

[darscot]

I'm mostly happy, but I really hope this starts a conversation about what we, as a country, are doing about the peddling of fake medicine. I should look into this more.

I'm really surprised how so many blame the government/country because of fake medicine. I think the country/government does a decent job in this area. People love their herbal shit and if that's your thing I dont think its a crime. That being said 99.99% of people have the brains to go well this isn't working time to go to an actual Doctor. I don't see a reason to start a witch hunt on hippy shit because of these two morons.

 

[Kinitari]

I'm really surprised how so many blame the government/country because of fake medicine. I think the country/government does a decent job in this area. People love their herbal shit and if that's your thing I dont think its a crime. That being said 99.99% of people have the brains to go well this isn't working time to go to an actual Doctor. I don't see a reason to start a witch hunt on hippy shit because of these two morons.

Well, it hasn't just been these two morons, and there is seemingly a growing number of people who use 'alternative medicine' in canada.

A more personal anecdote is my girlfriends sister, diagnosed with chrons, and being very much into the Woo stuff. She tried to treat (what she didn't know was chrons, even though a doctor warned her it might be) with natural remedies, had to have serious surgery when she became extremely ill, got better... and shortly after went right back to the promise of Woo, and tries to find every excuse under the sun to justify it. She is going to send herself back to the hospital for an emergency, and I worry about it. She's been seeing an accupuncturist (among the usual naturopath/homepoaths she sees + crystals she buys) and he's apparently promised he can cure her.

This is so infuriating to me. There are a lot of problems we have with medicine that we still need to overcome in the country, and I think this is absolutely one of them.

 

[darscot]

Well, it hasn't just been these two morons, and there is seemingly a growing number of people who use 'alternative medicine' in canada.

A more personal anecdote is my girlfriends sister, diagnosed with chrons, and being very much into the Woo stuff. She tried to treat (what she didn't know was chrons, even though a doctor warned her it might be) with natural remedies, had to have serious surgery when she became extremely ill, got better... and shortly after went right back to the promise of Woo, and tries to find every excuse under the sun to justify it. She is going to send herself back to the hospital for an emergency, and I worry about it. She's been seeing an accupuncturist (among the usual naturopath/homepoaths she sees + crystals she buys) and he's apparently promised he can cure her.

This is so infuriating to me. There are a lot of problems we have with medicine that we still need to overcome in the country, and I think this is absolutely one of them.

That includes, chiropractor, message therapy and acupuncture those are all legit and hardle alternative medicine. I understand your concern but people do have a right to their own treatment. I would never go a herbalist or naturalist but I understand why people do. To me the solution is education not criminality. Even if its illegal people are still going to do it. That will just give them more fuel for the conspiracy.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

That includes, chiropractor, message therapy and acupuncture those are all legit and hardle alternative medicine.

Some of chiropractic is but to a very narrow extent. A DO or physical therapist will have better training.

Acupuncture is 100% placebo.

 

[Kinitari]

That includes, chiropractor, message therapy and acupuncture those are all legit and hardle alternative medicine. I understand your concern but people do have a right to their own treatment. I would never go a herbalist or naturalist but I understand why people do. To me the solution is education not criminality. Even if its illegal people are still going to do it. That will just give them more fuel for the conspiracy.

Well I didn't specify what numbers from that list I consider problematic - chiropractor stuff can be a bit dangerous, but mostly a waste of money. Acupuncture is absolute bullshit, with no scientific backing and like I mention, it promises cures to serious illnesses all the time. Even if 10% of Canadians use alt medicine, I think that's too much.

I also think making it illegal to use is not an option, but illegal to practice? Or illegal to describe themselves as health practitioners? Why not do that?

 

[darscot]

Well I didn't specify what numbers from that list I consider problematic - chiropractor stuff can be a bit dangerous, but mostly a waste of money. Acupuncture is absolute bullshit, with no scientific backing and like I mention, it promises cures to serious illnesses all the time. Even if 10% of Canadians use alt medicine, I think that's too much.

I also think making it illegal to use is not an option, but illegal to practice? Or illegal to describe themselves as health practitioners? Why not do that?

Strange my Doctor just sent me for acupuncture at a medical clinic, shit was the bomb. Feels weird when they screw those needles into your muscle but man they way they flex and stretch is killer, 30 minutes of that is like 2 hours of stretching, little heat after and it does wonders. This is exactly why we need education, acupuncture has 100% legit medical usage. You want to ban it because you not informed. Doctors do call it IMS, its not voodoo.

I'm not down with chiropractic but my wife swears by it, no reason she should not be allowed to use a treatment she feels works.

In case anyone in is interested in IMS
http://www.istop.org/ims.html

Also to be fair I assumed this is the kind of acupuncture people are referring too.

 

[freethoughtbubble]

Culpability comes down to whether the parents actually knew or had reason to know that their homeopathic bullshit was not working and that their child was in danger. One could imagine a situation where death is sudden, where the margin for error is small, and mistakes of judgment more pardonable. But you can also imagine a situation where one watches their child slowly deteriorate and suffer and one chooses to stay the course against all reason and feeling. That would indeed deserve punishment (or, if you prefer, require deterrence). I'm not sure which, if either, is applicable here. I guess we'll find out.

In any case, rest in peace poor child.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

Strange my Doctor just sent me for acupuncture at a medical clinic, shit was the bomb. Feels weird when they screw those needles into your muscle but man they way they flex and stretch is killer, 30 minutes of that is like 2 hours of stretching, little heat after and it does wonders. This is exactly why we need education, acupuncture has 100% legit medical usage. You want to ban it because you not informed. Doctors do call it IMS, its not voodoo.

I'm not down with chiropractic but my wife swears by it, no reason she should not be allowed to use a treatment she feels works.

In case anyone in is interested in IMS
http://www.istop.org/ims.html

Also to be fair I assumed this is the kind of acupuncture people are referring too.

Alt med lobbies the insurance companies just as hard as pharmaceutical companies.

Just because it's a referral doesn't mean it's not bullshit.

http://sciencebasedmedicine.org has a ton of articles on how much of a sham acupuncture is.

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

I had viral meningitis when I was like 13 and it was an awful experience. The vomiting, nausea, cold sweats, lethargy, and eventually I started having weird hallucinatory effects in my vision in addition to the sensitivity to light. I was scared shit-less. It was the first time my mom, a physician, looked worried and that scared me even more.

I cannot IMAGINE being a toddler who can't understand what's happening to him and experiencing not only meningitis but the worst form of it. Horrific. I feel so bad for that kid.

In cases like this I have some difficulty appreciating who's at fault here, with the goal being to prevent this from happening again, I'm not sure the right path is to punish the parents and leave it at that, at least.

If the idea is the parents should have known that natural remedies don't work, and not going to a real doctor is criminally negligent, then a mixed message is sent when we as a country allow naturopaths and homeopaths and woo peddlers to conduct their business unmolested, we need to be clearer.

I don't think that makes any less a case for punishing the parents, but, honestly, they sometimes sound borderline insane to me. They should both have psychological evaluations.

 

[darscot]

Culpability comes down to whether the parents actually knew or had reason to know that their homeopathic bullshit was not working and that their child was in danger. One could imagine a situation where death is sudden, where the margin for error is small, and mistakes of judgment more pardonable. But you can also imagine a situation where one watches their child slowly deteriorate and suffer and one chooses to stay the course against all reason and feeling. That would indeed deserve punishment (or, if you prefer, require deterrence). I'm not sure which, if either, is applicable here. I guess we'll find out.

In any case, rest in peace poor child.

Here is the later, this went on for weeks. In the end the child's nervous system was so broken down his entire body locked to the point that they could not bend him enough to put him in a car seat so they just laid him in the back of the car. Days without eating just writhing in pain with blazing fever. It was horrific and they stood by until he took his last breath.

 

[darscot]

Alt med lobbies the insurance companies just as hard as pharmaceutical companies.

Just because it's a referral doesn't mean it's not bullshit.

http://sciencebasedmedicine.org has a ton of articles on how much of a sham acupuncture is.

Its not all bullshit, yes acupuncture to improve your love life is bullshit. For muscle pain and injury its 100% real and scientifically proven. Its really good for top athletes because its drug free and it provides real results.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

Its not all bullshit, yes acupuncture to improve your love life is bullshit. For muscle pain and injury its 100% real and scientifically proven. Its really good for top athletes because its drug free and it provides real results.

https://www.painscience.com/articles/acupuncture-for-pain.php

http://www.anesthesia-analgesia.org/content/116/6/1360

 

[freethoughtbubble]

Here is the later, this went on for weeks. In the end the child's nervous system was so broken down his entire body locked to the point that they could not bend him enough to put him in a car seat so they just laid him in the back of the car. Days without eating just writhing in pain with blazing fever. It was horrific and they stood by until he took his last breath.

I don't care what their sincere beliefs were, they deserve to be put away and their surviving children deserve better. Christ.

 

[darscot]

https://www.painscience.com/articles/acupuncture-for-pain.php

Dude, we can post alternative stories all day. When the surgeon that operated on my wife spine sent her to get IMS I just took his word for it. I hurt my back and a completely unrelated Doctor sent me for it. Both of us felt it was very beneficial, mainly because of how quickly and directly it can be administered. I'm not talking about acupuncture in back of the local chinese laundromat.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

Dude, we can post alternative stories all day. When the surgeon that operated on my wife spine sent her to get IMS I just took his word for it. I hurt my back and a completely unrelated Doctor sent me for it. Both of us felt it was very beneficial, mainly because of how quickly and directly it can be administered. I'm not talking about acupuncture in back of the local chinese laundromat.

Anecdotes aren't data. This is the danger of alternative medicine.

 

[JinjoUnchained]

The parents are fucking idiots but something also has to be done about all the snake oil salesmen pushing their bullshit natural and homeopathic nonsense. They take advantage of all the naive, stupid, and desperate people out there and have some liability in this kind of shit as well. As do people like Oprah and sites like huffpo that give these con artists a platform.

In America, at least, there are laws that you can't advertise that your naturopathic treatment will cure cancer or depression or other serious conditions. That's not to doubt the validity of all naturopathic remedies, but they can't be presented as a direct substitute for medical care.

 

[darscot]

Anecdotes aren't data. This is the danger of alternative medicine.

The data is in the fact that our medical system supports it. I dunno where your from but in Canada medical treatment is only free when its real. They will not pay for anything that does not have scientific data behind it. This form of acupuncture is completely legit, medical and scientific. Just google it. What's take to be considered not alternative? When a Medical Doctor performs the procedure in a hospital with the full backing and support of the medical system. Is it still alternative?

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

The data is in the fact that our medical system supports it. I dunno where your from but in Canada medical treatment is only free when its real. They will not pay for anything that does not have scientific data behind it. This form of acupuncture is completely legit, medical and scientific. Just google it. What's take to be considered not alternative? When a Medical Doctor performs the procedure in a hospital with the full backing and support of the medical system. Is it still alternative?

Yes, it's still nonsense because it's not supported by systematic review.

A pharmacological based of my point would be cough medications.

 

[Calamari41]

Maybe if these two are convicted, people will see it, "know better," and realize that what they did is murder their child.

 

[cameron]

Found guilty and rightfully so.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/calgary/meningitis-trial-verdict-1.3552941

The Stephans will not be held in custody at this time, but will have to return to court on June 13 when the date for sentencing will be set.

The maximum penalty for failing to provide the necessaries of life is five years in prison.

Shannon Prithipaul, the past president of the Criminal Trial Lawyers Association, thinks it would be unlikely for the couple to receive "something close to the maximum."

I don't expect a harsh sentence.

Here's hoping Alberta and other provinces implement stricter regulations for naturopaths and their nonsense. They shouldn't be able to prescribe anything and their products should be categorized as something similar to confectionery.

 

[Amon37]

5 years maximum? Smh. I don't know Canada's system but hopefully they see some jail time.

 

[Switch Back 9]

5 years maximum? Smh. I don't know Canada's system but hopefully they see some jail time.

A guy drove drunk and killed an entire family and only got ten years, so I doubt these morons will get much, if any actual jail time.

 

[lord pie]

Sadly it is all too easy for people to fall for these types of 'remedies'. It's natural, therefore it must be good! I don't trust drug companies! Vaccines cause Austrian, Etc. People don't like being told they are wrong when something feels like it should be right, when they were sold on promises not facts - when they are already emotionally invested like theses parents clearly were.

Does this make them negligent, certainly.. Criminal? Not so sure.

...

I've seen homeopathic medications on sale boldly claiming in their packaging to be more effective than other brands ('scientifically proven!' too!).

And I also remember as a child/teen having really bad medical anxiety problems... But don't worry, just take some 'rescue remedy!' It'll clear that right up.
It never seemed to work for me. 'You probably aren't taking it right'. Etc. How was I to know better? I was an idiot. They told me it was the best treatment for anxiety, especially for children.

Well now I know why. Turns out it is simply water and ~ 40% hard liquor (the 'preservative' part). No wonder huh?

Had I been properly diagnosed my life would be quite different I imagine.

...

I like to think that if homeopathy was really true, that water 'remembers' the molecules after dilution, then it should also remember going through sewerage treatment too.

 

[whitehawk]

Yes, the patents should be punished. Not locked for life, but fuck. It's 2016. There also needs to be a crackdown on these "natural healers".

 

[BudokaiMR2]

I can't fucking imagine being so goddamn set in your beliefs to look at your own son writhing in excruciating pain and not at least give modern medicine a chance to save his life. What in the fuck. What in the fucking fuck.
This is literally Idiocracy levels of stupidity. ELECTROLYTES ARE WHAT SPINAL MEMBRANES CRAVE!

Throw the fucking book at them. No excuses.

 

[HazySaiyan]

I'm glad that they're finally standing trial for what they've done, but it should never have gotten to this point in the first place. We as a society need to make a more hardline against pseudoscientific 'medicine', anybody who peddles this crap should be held responsible too.

 

[siddx]

In America, at least, there are laws that you can't advertise that your naturopathic treatment will cure cancer or depression or other serious conditions. That's not to doubt the validity of all naturopathic remedies, but they can't be presented as a direct substitute for medical care.

Except it's not hard to work around those laws to present your bullshit as a cure. Using vague wording, tiny and brief disclaimers, not specifically mentioning a disease. Plus the internet has made it way too easy for these people to shill their nonsense. All they have to do is use buzzwords, demonize gmos and big pharma and greedy doctors and play on peoples fears and insecurities.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

If anything, criminal charges should also be filed against the father for running a business that markets and distributes homeopathic "medicine". Obviously this won't happen since it's not illegal in Alberta, but in my opinion that's the more severe criminal negligence in this case and had such activity been regulated to begin with we wouldn't be in this situation now. Who knows how many additional lives were impacted by this business?

 

[iamblades]

Who filed the complaint against the parents and to whom? I'm unfamiliar with the legal process in Canada.

In the case of homicide you don't need a complainant in any jurisdiction I can think of.

 

[D4Danger]

That includes, chiropractor, message therapy and acupuncture those are all legit and hardle alternative medicine. I understand your concern but people do have a right to their own treatment. I would never go a herbalist or naturalist but I understand why people do. To me the solution is education not criminality. Even if its illegal people are still going to do it. That will just give them more fuel for the conspiracy.

People can do whatever they want but I guarantee no matter what you believe if the pain go so bad you'd eventually go to a hospital.

Unfortunately a child doesn't have that ability and in the end he was tortured and killed by his parents. Evil bastards.