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[Simon Belmont]

In the case of homicide you don't need a complainant in any jurisdiction I can think of.

In Canada it's usually the crown who decides to lay charges regardless of the wishes of the victim. Property crimes might be different, but violent crimes are always decided by the crown.

 

[cameron]

CBC News: "Alberta father convicted in son's meningitis death fears for other parents in 'dear jury' post"

A father found guilty of not providing his ailing toddler with medical care says he worries that others will be arrested if they don't "fall in line with parenting as seen fit by the government."

David Stephan wrote a "dear jury" letter on his Facebook page Wednesday, one day after he and his wife were convicted of failing to provide the necessaries of life to their son, Ezekiel, who died of meningitis.

David Stephan confirmed in an interview with The Canadian Press that he wrote the Facebook letter because he and his wife are disappointed with the court process.

"It was just definitely heartwrenching to see the direction that it went," he said. "There's the Crown's version of our story, then there's our story of us who actually lived it."

He said they are considering an appeal.

"Not so much for ourselves, but for the fact this sets a tremendous precedent for the Canadian populace. It would have been easier for us just to take a plea bargain a long time ago and just basically keep living our lives, but we didn't want this precedent being set. That's why we proceeded forward in the first place.

"I don't know yet whether we're going to throw in the towel."

The Facebook post:

Dear Jury,
I deeply Love each one of you and appreciate the tremendous sacrifice that you have made over the last 8 weeks. I only wish that you could've seen how you were being played by the crowns deception, drama and trickery that not only led to our key witnesses being muzzled, but has also now led to a dangerous precedent being set in Canada. The flood gates have now been opened and if we do not fall in line with parenting as seen fit by the government, we all stand in risk of criminal prosecution. Remember what the crown prosecutors closing remarks were to combat the fact that the ill equipped ambulance resulted in Ezekiel's brain death. She communicated that this was not about him dying, but rather about whether or not his life was endangered at any point due to our actions. How many parents have lost children for various reasons, all of which could be concluded that the child's life was endangered and that the parents should have been able to foresee it? How many parents have had close calls to losing a child, wherein it could be concluded that the child's life was endangered and the parents should have been able to foresee it? Whether medical attention is sought or not and your child lives, it is of no consequence. It is only about whether or not it can be proven that at some point your child's life was endangered, and if so you may find yourselves in the same boat as us.
The flood gates have now been opened and my main concern is no longer for Collet and I, but rather for Canadian's as a whole.
May Heaven help us all!

 

[gutter_trash]

The father sounded like a jackass on Tv.

He still doesn't get it that his naturopathy beliefs is what cost his son's life

He has to be made an example of to curb tge argument of "belief systems "

 

[Quixzlizx]

That guy hasn't learned shit so far, so it looks like he's going to need some "rehabilitation."

At least he'll get to revel in his martyrdom to his flock of morons.

 

[diaspora]

"parenting as seen fit by the government."

Parenting as seen fit by modern medicine you madcunt.

 

[gutter_trash]

That guy hasn't learned shit so far, so it looks like he's going to need some "rehabilitation."

At least he'll get to revel in his martyrdom to his flock of morons.

This is the main reason why I want him to go to jail.

He is still stubborn about his belief system moreso than being remorseful.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

CBC News: "Alberta father convicted in son's meningitis death fears for other parents in 'dear jury' post"



The Facebook post:

By all means flood gates, please do open.

 

[King_Moc]

This seems nuts. He knows he let his child die and still thinks he's in the right. How can someone be that dumb?

 

[Kinitari]

He blames the ambulance? His son was in his care for his last few conscious hours, his wife was at church - where he insisted she should go because the tincture they got from the naturopath was working wonders. His kid, when his wife came back, was having trouble breathing in his sleep - something she noticed right away. Noticing this, he didn't call the ambulance, he called his father. Who then recommended Thethey try natural stuff, then on the phone with his father, his son literally stops breathing and his wife has to perform cpr and -then- he thinks, oh maybe I should try an ambulance.

I want to know, if he really really didn't think real medicine would work, why did call an ambulance when his back was up against a wall? I can only think of 2 reasons:

1. He did think it could work, could save his son like none of the other stupid things he was doing could, he just didn't think it was serious enough until his child had to literally stop breathing. That he blames the ambulance for not being fully equipped implies that he thinks there was some equipment that could have saved his son.

2. He didn't think it could work, but felt that if his son died without him doing his due diligence, he'd be in legal trouble.

 

[King_Moc]

1. He did think it could work, could save his son like none of the other stupid things he was doing could, he just didn't think it was serious enough until his child had to literally stop breathing. That he blames the ambulance for not being fully equipped implies that he thinks there was some equipment that could have saved his son.

Maybe the ambulance had the wrong coloured quartz crystals, or the paramedic didn't know how to check his chakra?

 

[Kyuur]

Yeah, if you don't fall in line with parenting as seen fit by the government and it causes the death of your child then you should be fucking prosecuted. That's not some sort of slippery slope, christ.

 

[crazygambit]

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/...itis-police-interview-toddler-death-1.3537887


In cases like this I have some difficulty appreciating who's at fault here, with the goal being to prevent this from happening again, I'm not sure the right path is to punish the parents and leave it at that, at least.

Except for this little nugget:

The father told Bulford he believed taking Ezekiel to a physician sooner would not have helped.

"She found out Monday afternoon that it was meningitis, not a whole lot they can do for that until they can discover what [type] it is, and to discover what it is, they have to do a spinal tap," he said.

"I don't think anyone would have caught that unless he was under 24-hour supervision of a doctor."

I couldn't finish reading the article when the child began deteriorating as I've recently become a parent myself, but needless to say it's pretty infuriating. I don't think they've learned their lesson at all and if the same happened to one of their other kids, they'd probably still stick with homeopathic treatments.

 

[gutter_trash]

his Facebook post is horrible, more concerned of covering his irresponsible ass than morning the loss of his son.

I have a bad feeling that he dominates his wife and drums his beliefs into her head.

 

[BigDug13]

This seems nuts. He knows he let his child die and still thinks he's in the right. How can someone be that dumb?

It was God's will. Medicine and government shouldn't interfere with God's will to subject his child to the easily treatable and painful death the child had to endure.

 

[D4Danger]

The flood gates have now been opened and if we do not fall in line with parenting as seen fit by the government, we all stand in risk of criminal prosecution.

Yes, you do, you fucking dick. This is why we have child protection services because of people like this.

 

[darscot]

I do not believe we as a society have the ability or the right to pass the judgement this man deserves. I wish we did, cause part of me believes this guy deserves to be walked out behind the barn like a dog that ravaged the chicken coup and be put down. I do believe education is the solution to issues like this, but on the other hand some people just can not be reached. They can't be reasoned with they can't be helped. I hope they have the power to take his children from him and I wish they took him from his Father. This cycle needs to be broken.

 

[Stinkles]

The flood gates have now been opened and if we do not fall in line with parenting as seen fit by the government, we all stand in risk of criminal prosecution.

Canadian government thinks murdering children is bad parenting.

 

[HStallion]

This seems nuts. He knows he let his child die and still thinks he's in the right. How can someone be that dumb?

Pride is one of the most dangerous things at times. People will keep doing things that they know full well won't work, especially in the long run, because their pride won't allow anything else. This is basically the GOP party in the US as they are constantly surprised that their outdated ideas and thoughts are losing ground all over the place, even among their own constituents, but keep doing what they're doing despite no one wanting it. They can't be wrong though, so let's just double down on what we've been doing.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

There's this too: (also CBC News)

Alberta to review naturopathic regulations in light of toddler death

 

[HeySeuss]

He blames the ambulance? His son was in his care for his last few conscious hours, his wife was at church - where he insisted she should go because the tincture they got from the naturopath was working wonders. His kid, when his wife came back, was having trouble breathing in his sleep - something she noticed right away. Noticing this, he didn't call the ambulance, he called his father. Who then recommended Thethey try natural stuff, then on the phone with his father, his son literally stops breathing and his wife has to perform cpr and -then- he thinks, oh maybe I should try an ambulance.

I want to know, if he really really didn't think real medicine would work, why did call an ambulance when his back was up against a wall? I can only think of 2 reasons:

1. He did think it could work, could save his son like none of the other stupid things he was doing could, he just didn't think it was serious enough until his child had to literally stop breathing. That he blames the ambulance for not being fully equipped implies that he thinks there was some equipment that could have saved his son.

2. He didn't think it could work, but felt that if his son died without him doing his due diligence, he'd be in legal trouble.

I gotta say man, you're one of the most articulate posters in presenting your position on any given topic and I always enjoy reading your posts. I share your view on most things I see you post about including here.

Personally, I think it's a little bit of both. I think he knew that proper medicine would work better than what he was giving his son but that his way was the healthier alternative and might have worked.

Having been around people that swear by alternative medicine, the placebo effect that these things have is so strong that any level of relief is seen as a viable alternative. They are so anti-pharma that they believe it's an obligation to search out more natural ways of treating illnesses.

They want so badly to believe these treatments work that they suspend belief to ridiculous levels to justify their position. But at the end of the day as he finally realizes his son will die, he understands that there will be serious consequences if he doesn't explore other options.

 

[TimeEffect]

It's infuriating that they continue to be so stubborn and act like victims. These misguided people who learn things off the internet and think they outsmart some grand conspiracy are just the worst.

There are also a lot of people supporting them, which just encourages their righteousness.

 

[HeySeuss]

It's infuriating that they continue to be so stubborn and act like victims. These misguided people who learn things off the internet and think they outsmart some grand conspiracy are just the worst.

There are also a lot of people supporting them, which just encourages their righteousness.

If he stops acting like he's the victim in this, it makes him look more guilty than he already is. At this point it's more about his pride than anything. It's too late to admit he fucked up.

 

[Yaboosh]

It's infuriating that they continue to be so stubborn and act like victims. These misguided people who learn things off the internet and think they outsmart some grand conspiracy are just the worst.

There are also a lot of people supporting them, which just encourages their righteousness.

I mean, this is like a prime time for someone to go into full on denial mode.

Confronting the fact that you killed your own son can't be easy.

 

[Red]

Canadian government thinks murdering children is bad parenting.

And you know, that's really what it comes down to.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

It should also be noted that this wasn't their only child. They have other children. Who likely only got lucky that they managed to survive this long.

They also pleaded not guilty to the crime. This is very much a family that hasn't learned their lesson.

Ugh. Fuck these people.

Found guilty and rightfully so.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/c...dict-1.3552941

Good

Strange my Doctor just sent me for acupuncture at a medical clinic, shit was the bomb.

*eye-roll*
Betcha these parents thought these herbal medicines "worked for them", too.

Anecdotes are not data.

This is exactly why we need education, acupuncture has 100% legit medical usage.

The irony in this statement is pretty amusing. Acupuncture is 100% woo and that has been demonstrated time and time again. Educate yourself.

That's not to say something should be banned. If anyone wants to dig needles in their "meridian lines" for a placebo effect, then hey, whatever. Just don't call it medicine or prescribe it to treat anything. To help deal with vague, hard to place feelings of general pain and/or fatigue? Whatever, go for it.

CBC News: "Alberta father convicted in son's meningitis death fears for other parents in 'dear jury' post"
The Facebook post:

What an irresponsible piece of shit.

There's this too: (also CBC News)

Alberta to review naturopathic regulations in light of toddler death

Good. About time.

 

[TimeEffect]

I mean, this is like a prime time for someone to go into full on denial mode.

Confronting the fact that you killed your own son can't be easy.

Yeah, but they've been acting stupid way before their kid died. Now they are just doubling down on their stupidity.

 

[TheOMan]

Kids lose their brother, about to lose their father, and these people are still pedding their snake-oil. Just can't. Naturopathy needs to be put under the microscope (lol, science) and then the stuff deemed to be rubbish put right into the dumpster and set on fire.

Where are the people from the previous thread trying to tell us they learned their lesson and didn't still believe in this hogwash???

 

[darscot]

Originally Posted by darscot

Strange my Doctor just sent me for acupuncture at a medical clinic, shit was the bomb.
*eye-roll*
Betcha these parents thought these herbal medicines "worked for them", too.

Anecdotes are not data.

This is exactly why we need education, acupuncture has 100% legit medical usage.
The irony in this statement is pretty amusing. Acupuncture is 100% woo and that has been demonstrated time and time again. Educate yourself.

That's not to say something should be banned. If anyone wants to dig needles in their "meridian lines" for a placebo effect, then hey, whatever. Just don't call it medicine or prescribe it to treat anything. To help deal with vague, hard to place feelings of general pain and/or fatigue? Whatever, go for it.

Just like this idiot some people can not be reasoned with and not matter what you try and explain or do they will never change their mind. I'm fairly confident in the medical system here in Canada and I trust that a Medical Doctors have a series of checks and balances to insure they do not prescribe treatments that are not medically sound. At the same time placebo is 100% legit and medically proven. Seems like a great deal of effort and cost if this was placebo. Same as I have previously stated and posted links too I am referring to IMS.

 

[Dot Matrix]

Why don't they just rub the court papers with an onion and bury it under a full moon? They seem to think that kind of shit fixes everything else.

 

[Messofanego]

There's this too: (also CBC News)

Alberta to review naturopathic regulations in light of toddler death

It's always deaths that lead to needed changes.

 

[Red]

Morrigan, even if acupuncture is ineffective, it is starting to be adopted by major medical networks in the US, which can be seen as endorsement. I work for a large hospital system which heavily advertises acupuncture and natural treatments at one of its satellite ERs and fitness centers. "Educate yourself" is difficult when major players start adopting such treatments.

Specialists within this network also frequently recommend homeopathic treatments.

I don't know enough about acupuncture to say much about it one way or the other, but I tend to lean toward, as you said, "woo." Afaik it doesn't work any better than placebo.

 

[jblank83]

I don't understand how people can think like this. Plus who's to say what's natural.

When I was in the Northwest I knew a girl who was into the "everything natural" mindset. She drank raw milk. She walked in the snow without shoes to "toughen her feet". She wouldn't take any pills, not even ibuprofen, because illnesses would strengthen her immune system. Eventually she got some kind of respiratory illness and proceeded to cough on everyone for 6 weeks. I can't remember the last time I was that sick. I barely had strength enough to crawl out of bed, lay on the floor of my living room, and hope I wasn't going to die.

My feelings towards her were less than compassionate.

Anyway, people seem to think that being exposed to illnesses will strengthen their immune system. Fact is, a lot of these microorganisms mutate at a very high rate, which means your immune system will never become resistant to something like influenza (winter flu). You can get 20 winter flus, suffer through every single one of them while infecting everyone around you, and you're still going to get flu number 21, 22, 23, and 24.

 

[Red]

Being exposed to illness does stengthen the immune system. Thats how vaccines work, for instance.

 

[Quixzlizx]

Being exposed to illness does stengthen the immune system. Thats how vaccines work, for instance.

Getting sick makes your immune system produce antibodies for that particular strain of that particular disease. It doesn't protect you from other diseases, only the one you were already infected by. So saying "Yeah, I'm strengthening my immune system by allowing myself to be infected by everything!" is technically true, but idiotic.

A vaccine does this in a controlled manner so you don't go through the full-blown illness while developing the antibodies.

 

[Red]

"Yeah, I'm strengthening my immune system by allowing myself to be infected by everything!" is technically true, but idiotic.

Well, sure.

 

[AuthenticM]

A father found guilty of not providing his ailing toddler with medical care says he worries that others will be arrested if they don't "fall in line with parenting as seen fit by the government."

Yes, yes that is exactly going to happen and it is a very good thing, you dumb asshole.

The flood gates have now been opened and my main concern is no longer for Collet and I, but rather for Canadian's as a whole.

Lock him up and throw away the key.

 

[Kinitari]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/naturopath-meningitis-trial-investigation-1.3554468

A letter to the CNDA, signed by 43 physicians and surgeons, raised a number of concerns with the conduct of Tracey Tannis, a naturopath consulted by the Stephans and who testified at their trial.

Kristen Tanaka, the college's complaints director, responded in a letter dated March 29 and obtained by CBC News. ​

"I have determined that your complaint will be investigated pursuant to section 55(2)(d) of the Health Professions Act," she wrote.

Tanaka said there will be an investigation and then a decision will be made to either dismiss the complaint or to refer the matter to a tribunal.

Naturopathy is a regulated health profession in Alberta, but the College of Naturopathic Doctors of Alberta — the body that regulates it — was not established until about five months after Ezekiel died in August 2012.

"By any objective measure of a health-care professional licensed to care for children Dr. Tannis did not meet the standard of care," reads the original complaint letter, dated March 28.

"According to what has been given as evidence in the Stephan trial, Dr. Tannis did not physically examine Ezekiel, who was so stiff from meningeal inflammation that he could not sit in his car seat when his parents took him to the Lethbridge Naturopathic Medical Clinic."

The doctors raise concerns that Tannis said she did not communicate with Collet, "yet two other people have given statements that Dr. Tannis did, in fact, discuss viral meningitis with Collet, and gave her echinacea anyway."

So it looks like the naturopath in this case will be investigated, as well as the current practices of naturopathy in Alberta, so steps in the right direction.

This opinion piece also talks about the culpability of bystanders, I don't know if I agree with this very much, if at all - but it does highlight another similar case that happened a few years ago:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/meningitis-trial-verdict-bystanders-opinion-1.3555457

In March 2013, seven year-old Ryan Alexander Lovett died in Calgary after contracting a strep infection that kept him bedridden for 10 days.

Ryan's mother is expected to go on trial later this year after being charged with criminal negligence causing death and failing to provide the necessaries of life.

Police said that Ryan's mother did not take him to the doctor and chose to treat the bacterial infection with homeopathic medicine. News reports at the time claimed that, during those 10 days, the mother's friends were worried for the sick child's health and urged the mother to take her son to the doctor.

 

[AuthenticM]

Law experts say the "Dear Jury" letter David Stephan posted to Facebook after being convicted in the death of his son Ezekiel may come back to haunt him when he faces the court to be sentenced.

On Tuesday, a jury found David and his wife, Collet Stephan, guilty of failing to provide the necessaries of life to their toddler Ezekiel, who died from meningitis.

The next day, David posted a stinging rebuke of the way the case was handled, addressed directly to jurors.

The online message blasted what David described as the "deception, drama and trickery" of the Crown, which he said has led to "a dangerous precedent being set in Canada."

Criminal defence lawyer Adriano Iovinelli said publicly lashing out at the justice system can be risky for someone awaiting sentencing after a criminal conviction.

"This individual is still before the courts and is criticizing both the Crown prosecutor and essentially the trial process itself, and that never bodes well for someone who is appearing before the courts for sentencing," he said.

Peter Sankoff, who teaches in the Faculty of Law at the University of Alberta, said the Facebook post goes beyond "just expressing dismay with the verdict" and could have some impact on the sentence the judge ultimately hands down.

"It's sort of impugning the repute of both the Crown and the system," Sankoff said of Stephan's letter to jurors.

"So it's definitely possible the Crown would try to tender it in sentencing and to suggest that it's an aggravating feature that should be considered."

CBC

They killed their son, and not only have they not learned anything, but they show contempt towards the court.

I want them to get five years. A message needs to be sent that this shit is unacceptable and intolerable. Fuck these assholes.

 

[msdstc]

It's hard to fault the parents for being just that stupid. They genuine
Y believed they were doing right by the child. Yes its negligence given what we know about mesicine, but these people were brainwashed by the peddlers of this snake oil. It's hard to place blame on any one person here. If they police supplements and medicine more tightly, people will cry foul and team up against them such as the anti vaccine.

 

[Prologue]

meningitis is some serious shit, and a child too with an undeveloped immune system? How could you even reason that? I guess the rest of the world must be crazy then.

 

[TheOMan]

It's hard to fault the parents for being just that stupid. They genuine
Y believed they were doing right by the child. Yes its negligence given what we know about mesicine, but these people were brainwashed by the peddlers of this snake oil. It's hard to place blame on any one person here. If they police supplements and medicine more tightly, people will cry foul and team up against them such as the anti vaccine.

But...they are the peddlers of the snake oil...

 

[grumble]

Morrigan, even if acupuncture is ineffective, it is starting to be adopted by major medical networks in the US, which can be seen as endorsement. I work for a large hospital system which heavily advertises acupuncture and natural treatments at one of its satellite ERs and fitness centers. "Educate yourself" is difficult when major players start adopting such treatments.

Specialists within this network also frequently recommend homeopathic treatments.

I don't know enough about acupuncture to say much about it one way or the other, but I tend to lean toward, as you said, "woo." Afaik it doesn't work any better than placebo.

I know enough about it to know that it has been extensively studied and can be thrown pretty conclusively in the 'does nothing' junk pile. That the hospital system advertises this is due to patient pressure and financial gain, not being medically responsible.

To people in this thread: acupuncture DOES NOTHING that wouldn't be done by a placebo. Aka you are wasting your time and money and avoiding treatment that might actually help.

 

[Red]

I know enough about it to know that it has been extensively studied and can be thrown pretty conclusively in the 'does nothing' junk pile. That the hospital system advertises this is due to patient pressure and financial gain, not being medically responsible.

To people in this thread: acupuncture DOES NOTHING that wouldn't be done by a placebo. Aka you are wasting your time and money and avoiding treatment that might actually help.

I totally agree, but like I said, offering such treatments may be seen as endorsement by an authority, which can lead people to believe they are legitimate.

 

[Abstrusity]

For more snake oil garbage, my physical therapist tried to push cold laser therapy on me for 5 bucks a minute, minimum 10 minutes.

Now, I'm studying engineering, and I'm pretty sure lasers don't work that way, especially if they're diffused to a dim flashlight level. Most people there we re old people, and they were all about it, though. It's sickening.

 

[SamuelSupreme]

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/...itis-police-interview-toddler-death-1.3537887



More at the link. This was a story a while ago, but now you can access audio clips for the trial, where the parents are interviewed, and the article summarizes the events. In cases like this I have some difficulty appreciating who's at fault here, with the goal being to prevent this from happening again, I'm not sure the right path is to punish the parents and leave it at that, at least.

If the idea is the parents should have known that natural remedies don't work, and not going to a real doctor is criminally negligent, then a mixed message is sent when we as a country allow naturopaths and homeopaths and woo peddlers to conduct their business unmolested, we need to be clearer.

That's an incredible point. And a perspective we shohld all be looking at this at.

 

[AuthenticM]

The sentence is in.

Four months of jail for the father, three months of house arrest for the mother.

A father has been sentenced to four months in jail and his wife to three months of house arrest after being found guilty of failing to provide the necessaries of life for their 19-month-old son, who died from bacterial meningitis.

David Stephan, 33, and his wife Collet, 36, were convicted by a Lethbridge jury in April after their trial was told they used naturopathic remedies rather than seeking medical treatment for the boy, Ezekiel.

Justice Rodney Jerke said the Stephans were caring parents and neither intended to put the boy's life at risk.

But at the same time the judge noted the Stephans made a conscious decision not to see a doctor for well over a day​ before he was rushed to hospital.

"Any reasonable and prudent person would have taken action," he said, as Collet sobbed quietly.

The prosecution had asked for a sentence in the range of three to 4½ years in prison, while the defence had argued for a suspended or conditional sentence with no time behind bars.

Jerke said the Crown's request was "far too harsh."

Fuck Justice Rodney. Limp-dick chicken-shit motherfucker.

The Crown should have gotten what it wanted. One of the objectives of sentencing is the deterrence of committing the crime in question. This was clearly a case of a message needing to be sent, especially after the father posted that shit letter on facebook.

Fuck this shit.

One day, I will be prosecutor, and if I come across such a case and it lands on my pile, you can bet your ass that I will ask for the maximum sentence, and that I will appeal it to fuck and back if I get denied.


EDIT:

Extract of the Criminal Code of Canada, section 718 and 718.01. Take note of subsections 718 (a), (b) and (f), along with 718.01 in its entirety.

Purpose and Principles of Sentencing

Marginal noteurpose

718 The fundamental purpose of sentencing is to protect society and to contribute, along with crime prevention initiatives, to respect for the law and the maintenance of a just, peaceful and safe society by imposing just sanctions that have one or more of the following objectives:

(a) to denounce unlawful conduct and the harm done to victims or to the community that is caused by unlawful conduct;

(b) to deter the offender and other persons from committing offences;

(c) to separate offenders from society, where necessary;

(d) to assist in rehabilitating offenders;

(e) to provide reparations for harm done to victims or to the community; and

(f) to promote a sense of responsibility in offenders, and acknowledgment of the harm done to victims or to the community.


718.01 When a court imposes a sentence for an offence that involved the abuse of a person under the age of eighteen years, it shall give primary consideration to the objectives of denunciation and deterrence of such conduct.

 

[Madness]

Parents lose child thinking they will save him and then go on trial and people out for blood and yet nothing happens to the shitload of traditional chinese medicine snake oil peddlers, homeopaths and naturopaths in the country who con parents and people like this. Oh well. Eventually we will get over the hocus pocus spirituality crap that has no basis in real life one day.

 

[Divvy]

Parents lose child thinking they will save him and then go on trial and people out for blood and yet nothing happens to the shitload of traditional chinese medicine snake oil peddlers, homeopaths and naturopaths in the country who con parents and people like this.

What is the point in charging them, spending thousands on a trial, sending them to jail for what? And I am someone who hates the anti vaxxers and I am very pro punishment as a deterrence but this will do nothing. They lost their kid. They are being punished enough.

Normally I would agree, but these two do not seem to have learned anything, having blamed everyone but themselves.

 

[AuthenticM]

Parents lose child thinking they will save him and then go on trial and people out for blood and yet nothing happens to the shitload of traditional chinese medicine snake oil peddlers, homeopaths and naturopaths in the country who con parents and people like this.

What is the point in charging them, spending thousands on a trial, sending them to jail for what? And I am someone who hates the anti vaxxers and I am very pro punishment as a deterrence but this will do nothing. They lost their kid. They are being punished enough.

Get out with your whataboutisms.

You don't know what you are talking about.

 

[TheBaldEmperor]

Unbelievable...