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All The Last of Us 2 leaks/spoilers in here and nowhere else.

Jon Neu

Banned
people don't even know how it actually ends yet, lol.

Yes, we know.

It’s Maam brutalizes Ellie and Nostrilina, but at the last second, when she was about to murder a pregnant teen, her cuck trans boyfriend calls her and then, somehow, recovers some humanity when a second before was super happy to kill a pregnant teen. She then leaves the lesbians alive.

In the epilogue, Noselina has the baby but Ellie wants revenge so much she goes in search of It’s Maam, abandoning “her” family.
 
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Maybe this is a bit off topic, but how badly do you think Ellie and the other characters smell while they're journeying, considering that they go days without bathing?

5iOIIRA.jpg
 
Looks like the playstation store page is back.


Is this mention was there before?
A Complex and Emotional Story
Experience the escalating moral conflicts created by Ellie’s relentless pursuit of vengeance. The cycle of violence left in her wake will challenge your notions of right versus wrong, good versus evil, and hero versus villain.

"Complex"

:messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy:

What a terrible follow up to TLoU. A cycle of revenge really has nothing to do with the beats of the original. What Joel did was never out of revenge, but out of love. The revenge would be far more relevant if it started from Abby's perspective. Why the hell would you start it from Ellie? It just baffles my mind and just seem like it's just going for shock.
Only thing I can think of is them trying to use it as some weird contrast, but that falls back on the same problem, that it feels utterly disconnected from the first game. Giving Ellie a revenge story just feels like completely wasting the character.
 
No, you don't. A plot's overarching structure is a thing in itself. The scenes it consists of are irrelevant in that respect (but they are both relevant to the story and experience as a whole), and we certainly have that information.

And no, you don't need an entire plot to judge a plot structure. That's kinda the point. We know how the game is split up, thus we can judge the overarching structure. Perhaps the plot itself might be harder to judge, as the structure is but a part of it, but there is no need to "wait judgement" anyways, as you judge things on what's available, not on what might hypothetically later be known. We don't know about the plot's pacing or all the scenes, which is the only part where "30 hour game" is remotely relevant. That's without considering that it's a game and likely filled with a lot of gameplay in those 30 hours, which again is irrelevant to the plot.

To give you an example:

humanity discovers impending doom thanks to scientist
scientists builds a AI driven computer DNA hotel "louis" and an ark
deteriorating hotel 1
deteriorating hotel 2
louis malfunctioning
ark returns to earth after millions of years and saves the hotel and start bringing humanity back

It can even be used in the same format as we know from TLoU2:

humanity-doomed
2-solutions
hotel-built
humanity-dying
20000-ad
1200000-ad
louis-flashback
ark-returns

That's the overarching plot structure of the one shot manga "Hotel". Sure, the story is more than its structure, but that's not what's being judged. What's being judged is the structure of the plot and the plot beats connected to them. It's not about the depth, because Hotel has a lot of depths and interesting aspects and scenes that happens within that structure. That's also why I've said that TLoU2 might be better than its structure, just like TLoU1 was. The problem is that the structure of TLoU2 and the story beats connected to them are awful, especially in the context of its predecessor, unlike TLoU1 which was more typical or generic.

It tells us more than enough for us to judge something like a timeline or a structure. That's also how the whole field of history works, by analyzing pieces of history and making casual and analytical judgements of them. If you combine screenshots and videos into it as well, then suddenly you have a plethora of information to judge something based on. Then once the game comes out (ie. getting more information) you can reassess things, though something structural is unlikely to change much. So your defense here is pretty weak. It's not like it's a rumour, we have actual information about the structure of the game. Literary analysis focus on all of these different things, though that's usually in a descriptive way (basically picking apart every aspect of a story) and not prescriptive as I'm doing.

In TLoU2's case we know the basic overarching structure and we even know some of the important story beats. Thus we have lots of things to judge the plot on without having to experience it all. Sure, we can't judge the whole story, because the story as a whole is more than the plot, but we have enough to be able to say "that's bad". Introducing the daughter of a no-name surgeon from the first game and a revenge plot is also as a story beat, especially in the context of the first game, that just is awful. Then again, perhaps there's so magical missing link that somehow justifies the choice of structure and story beats. However, you're arguing too much in its favor, saying that because we don't know every single thing about the game, that somehow there's something there that'll make things better, when in fact the opposite might be true, that it might make things much worse. What we can judge is what we know and that should be what's the most important, not wishful thinking about what might be, which is akin to religious fanaticism.

Man this is a really long post that doesn't amount to much. Even the footage we've seen can't be confirmed to be in the final product because we don't know at what stage of development it's taken from. We only "know" the plot structure if we take the leaks at face value. All the video leaks combined do not create a "plot structure" at all, some of them aren't even plot significant. Keep in mind games have launched with trailer footage that doesn't end up in the final product, never mind leaks from God knows who from we don't know what stage of development, things that could have been changed over time.

But let's go with what you're saying and say that we know enough to say...

TLOU II plot is:

Things going well for Ellie
Cult shows up
Ellie goes after cult and runs into daughter of person Joel killed, Abby
Joel is killed by Abby for revenge
Ellie kills a bunch of their people and escapes to continue her quest against the cult
Abby now pursues Ellie to get more revenge for her killing her people
It ends with Ellie dying to Abby's hands? Or it doesn't? Not clear

So, now even if all of this is exactly true and there aren't significant plot events missing from it... what's inherently wrong with the structure that can't be salvaged by other elements being great like story, character development, etc. ?
 
Maybe this is a bit off topic, but how badly do you think Ellie and the other characters smell while they're journeying, considering that they go days without bathing?

For some reason I'm surprised that Kojima hasn't made a MGS game where you have to fart, pee and shit. The whole "when do they shower/change clothes/go to the bathroom" is always a kind of thing that's acceptable to ignore in fiction. Still surprised that Kojima hasn't included it with his hilarious inclusions at times. He did include a pooping horse though.
 
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Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Welp... there it is. I can't believe they're doing a "but both sides" story as a follow up to The Last of Us. Seems like such a step down from the original.

There still could be a lot in the execution to make this an interesting game, so I'll wait for more post-launch impressions, but man, this is a huge disappointment.

Its pretty standard for all post-apocalyptic stories to eventually turn into Westerns, and this is the route they've taken.

As we all know, when a character sets out on a path of vengeance, it rarely ends well for anyone. This at least seems to be shaking things up a bit with 2 characters on intersecting vendettas.

As always though, these stories are never about the destination, its about the journey and how it changes the characters along the way. So passing judgement based on the literal start and end-point is always going to come across as underwehelming because what happens between those events is what gives it meaning and context.

Its all really obvious stuff, and nothing to be alarmed by (you could reduce the original TLOU in exactly the same way and it'd hard undersell that narrative), its just being blown out of all proportion by a fuckwitted contingent hell-bent on taking the game, ND, and probably Sony down.
 

Saber

Member
The only thing I can imagine with the summary is that Ellie gonna do real questionable shit in her pursuit of vengeance. And to be the point of questioning the player...this might be not good news at all.
 

davitpr

Member
Looks like the playstation store page is back.


Is this mention was there before?
A Complex and Emotional Story
Experience the escalating moral conflicts created by Ellie’s relentless pursuit of vengeance. The cycle of violence left in her wake will challenge your notions of right versus wrong, good versus evil, and hero versus villain.

LOL the damage control has started. Sweet lord this game is going to flop HARD. I guess now we understand why the game cover is so damn cringy and went full "Ellie rage face". THey are so progressive and revolutionary! Ellie is now the "bad guy" LOL
 
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M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
I just read the script or rather what is story about and my mind is in big WHAT THE FUCK mode. Can't support this.
 
This doesn't mean anything until we see numbers.

It's #1 selling game on the biggest console this generation right now but we need hard numbers? Uh... pretty sure it's doing okay, man. I mean specific numbers could maybe give you information like that pre-orders are less than the first or less than UC 4 or something but they aren't going to tell you it's flopping hard when it's #1 even after this controversy.
 

Jayjayhd34

Gold Member
LOL the damage control has started. Sweet lord this game is going to flop HARD. I guess now we understand why the game cover is so damn cringy and went full "Ellie rage face". THey are so progressive and revolutionary! Ellie is now the "bad guy" LOL


It will sell millions I would bet my life on it.
 

davitpr

Member
It's #1 selling game on the biggest console this generation right now but we need hard numbers? Uh... pretty sure it's doing okay, man. I mean specific numbers could maybe give you information like that pre-orders are less than the first or less than UC 4 or something but they aren't going to tell you it's flopping hard when it's #1 even after this controversy.

It's #1 selling right now ONLY in "PlayStation 4 games". What other big games are coming out on Ps4? That's why this doesn't mean anything. It's #17 in "video games". Even an online code for Battlefield 1 is selling better. And a switch screen protector :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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It's #1 selling right now ONLY in "PlayStation 4 games". What other big games are coming out on Ps4? That's why this doesn't mean anything. It's #17 in "video games". Even Battlefield 1 is selling better.

Battlefield 1 is currently on sale for 3 dollars.

You're also placing it at 17 by including accessories and gift cards, kinda disingenuous.
 
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isual

Member
my assumption as someone that reads a lot of books is that people who like this sort of game do not read a lot of books that are fiction because they just haven't experienced in their minds a story that is engrossing, thus, they think that TLOS is a 'good' game.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Its pretty standard for all post-apocalyptic stories to eventually turn into Westerns, and this is the route they've taken.

As we all know, when a character sets out on a path of vengeance, it rarely ends well for anyone. This at least seems to be shaking things up a bit with 2 characters on intersecting vendettas.

As always though, these stories are never about the destination, its about the journey and how it changes the characters along the way. So passing judgement based on the literal start and end-point is always going to come across as underwehelming because what happens between those events is what gives it meaning and context.

Its all really obvious stuff, and nothing to be alarmed by (you could reduce the original TLOU in exactly the same way and it'd hard undersell that narrative), its just being blown out of all proportion by a fuckwitted contingent hell-bent on taking the game, ND, and probably Sony down.

I know it's standard, which is why I'm disappointed. Making the grand narrative just yet another plodding tale about "both sides are bad," "vicious circle of violence" with the zombie apocalypse being relegated to a mere backdrop is not what I was looking for out of a sequel to The Last of Us.

Again, I'm not passing final judgment yet, and I think you're right that the plot might be getting overly reduced by people with bad agendas to make it sound even worse, but I'm just disappointed that they seemed to have thrown almost everything related to the disease, the zombie apocalypse, finding a cure, rebuilding society, etc. out the window in favor of what this apparently is. I'm really not looking to be preached to by Naughty Dog about how "revenge is bad" or "there are no heroes" or some other nonsensical platitudes.

I know complaining about it isn't going to change anything, but it sucks, since TLOU was one of my favorite games and stories from last gen, so I'm just venting a bit.
 
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davitpr

Member
But if you can see for yourself it's the third best-selling game on Amazon and the two above it are on deals why tell people "it's #17"??
Because it is. I didn't make the list. You go ahead and explain how well is selling. Being behind a screen protector and a pair of headphones gives you an idea of how "well" is selling. And the fact that Battlefield 1 is on sale makes it even look worse. It's a 4-year-old game. Even if it's on sale, how many units do you think it's selling? Millions? Of course not. What about those 2 headphones? How many are people buying? Millions? Thousands? Of course not. It's probably hundreds, which means Last of Us 2 is selling less than that.
 
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Because it is. I didn't make the list. You go ahead and explain how well is selling. Being behind a screen protector and a pair of headphones gives you an idea of how "well" is selling. lol

There aren't 16 video games that are selling better than it. There are two. Most the stuff above it is stuff like controllers and gift cards, the number one being PSN store credit gift cards (no way those would be used to buy TLOU II!!)
 
With all the drama the sequel has..... It really bothered me how they focused on a cult rather the biggest threat called the Clickers... I'm just glad I played the first game and pretend this one doesn't exist.
It's like TWD. The zombies are just a backdrop.

Yeah, TLoU really established other people as the biggest threat, on a story level that is. That said, I think people often ended up being the most boring opponents in TLoU. The cordyceps zombies were always the more interesting opponents imo.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
It's like TWD. The zombies are just a backdrop.

That's why I stopped watching TWD a few episodes into Season 2. I hate it when stories just forget their grand narrative to "focus on character relationships" or whatever. I mean, I often enjoy character dramas, and definitely enjoy good characterization in any genre, but it's frustrating when shows or games lose focus of what made them appealing in the first place.
 
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Jooxed

Gold Member
Ok, so Druckman just sealed his fate and ruined his career. He is basically using the huge success of TLOU as a Trojan Horse to push his woke agenda, and in the process, he's killing a franchise that should've been at least 3 parts. When making Part 2, they should've planned out an outline for Part 2 AND Part 3, but they decided they would go woke and "push the limits of society". He's going to lose Sony so much money and ruin a studio and a franchise. He's done.

You haven't posted here since 2017/2018 i'm assuming you are here just to stir up shit as a Reeturner?
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Because it is. I didn't make the list. You go ahead and explain how well is selling. Being behind a screen protector and a pair of headphones gives you an idea of how "well" is selling. And the fact that Battlefield 1 is on sale makes it even look worse. It's a 4-year-old game. Even if it's on sale, how many units do you think it's selling? Millions? Of course not. What about those 2 headphones? How many are people buying? Millions? Thousands? Of course not. It's probably hundreds, which means Last of Us 2 is selling less than that.

The sales are updated hourly

Yesterday it was #1
Now it's #17

This is after the announcement of the new release date. It's the hottest items that are currently being sold under the Video Games Category.

When the release date was announced in September, it was breaking records for the fastest pre-order PlayStation 4 exclusive.



Even with negative press, it was still able to make it to #1 on the chart.

There's people who probably canceled their pre-orders after spoiling themselves, but it may not have a major impact on sales.

This is well before a strong marketing push.
 
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Troy Baker was right when he said we weren’t ready lmao.

Politics aside, (it’s absolutely ridiculous that I have to state this, otherwise it’s the first thing people will argue against) from the summery alone, it’s clear that Neil and his writing staff weren’t planning on making a sequel. I don’t know a single person that thinks Joel was a hero at the end of the first game, but the fact is it WAS Joel’s story. To see such a massive departure in the sequel is a clear indication of horrible writing and direction. Killing Joel off mid-game made sense, since this world is cruel and unforgiving, but then switching the the view of his killer and justifying it by saying, “we’re all the hero’s of our own story,” is so monumentally dumb that it sounds like a middle schooler wrote it and thought it was literary genius. I know Neil thinks he’s writing the next groundbreaking story that will change storytelling forever, but it comes off as poor writing. For this to work, they should have either started the game as Abby, and made it clear that this was HER story, or brought in her point of view during Part 3.

I was planning on getting this when they Rerelease it on PS5 and now I’m glad to have made that decision.

Edit: I also understand that it will be a long game, and will possibly justify the risky narrative choices. That being said, the story summery is still alarming enough to justify holding off on a purchase. I would also argue that a long campaign isn’t a good enough excuse for players to still be interested. It’s a video game. I would hope the length is mostly gameplay and not cutscenes or dialogue excusing the direction of the story.
 
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davitpr

Member
Even with negative press, it was still able to make it to #1 on the chart.

There's people who probably canceled their pre-orders after spoiling themselves, but it may not have a major impact on sales.

This is well before a strong marketing push.

The leak goes BEYOND negative press. It's exposing a bad product and people are canceling pre-orders and will lose millions just because of it. Wait until reviews start coming in, that's when the shit will hit the fan.
 

davitpr

Member
Troy Baker was right when he said we weren’t ready lmao.

Politics aside, (it’s absolutely ridiculous that I have to state this, otherwise it’s the first thing people will argue against) from the summery alone, it’s clear that Neil and his writing staff weren’t planning on making a sequel. I don’t know a single person that thinks Joel was a hero at the end of the first game, but the fact is it WAS Joel’s story. To see such a massive departure in the sequel is a clear indication of horrible writing and direction. Killing Joel off mid-game made sense, since this world is cruel and forgiving, but then switching the the view of his killer and justifying it by saying, “we’re all the hero’s of our own story,” is so monumentally dumb that it sounds like a middle schooler wrote it and thought it was literary genius. I know Neil thinks he’s writing the next groundbreaking story that will change storytelling forever, but it comes off as poor writing. For this to work, they should have either started the game as Abby, and made it clear that this was HER story, or brought in her point of view during Part 3.

I was planning on getting this when they Rerelease it on PS5 and now I’m glad to have made that decision.

Lol I totally agree. I can see Neil writing this shit and thinking he's about to revolutionize literature. Poor guy
 
It will sell millions I would bet my life on it.

I think people on a video games forum often lose sight of what the average gamer thinks/acts. On the internet everything is blown out of proportion but in the real world it's a bit different.

I expect some people on the net will cancel their preorders and avoid this game, but for the most part Joe Average will know nothing about these leaks and buy the game regardless.

Now moving forward I think this game is going to piss a lot of Average Joe's off and the future of the series will be compromised. Future iterations won't sell as well due to this shit show. But for now, it's going to sell millions regardless and be one of the biggest selling games of the year
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
I know it's standard, which is why I'm disappointed. Making the grand narrative just yet another plodding tale about "both sides are bad," "vicious circle of violence" with the zombie apocalypse being relegated to a mere backdrop is not what I was looking for out of a sequel to The Last of Us.

Again, I'm not passing final judgment yet, and I think you're right that the plot might be getting overly reduced by people with bad agendas to make it sound even worse, but I'm just disappointed that they seemed to have thrown almost everything related to the disease, the zombie apocalypse, finding a cure, rebuilding society, etc. out the window in favor of what this apparently is. I'm really not looking to be preached to by Naughty Dog about how "revenge is bad" or "there are no heroes" or some other nonsensical platitudes.

I know complaining about it isn't going to change anything, but it sucks, since TLOU was one of my favorite games and stories from last gen, so I'm just venting a bit.

First thing is the plot of the first game was pretty boiler-plate too, however it was elevated massively by its treatment. Given that this is the same creative team I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt, at this point.

I'd also caution that the nature of these leaks seems contrived to hurt the game, and that being the case I'd be concerned that what's been shown was cherry-picked to give a certain negative impression.

There's been enough footage shown outside of this to indicate that the infected are still a threat and that there are several factions in the world, so trying to imply that this revenge thread is all there is to the game is patently nonsensical.

I'm sorry but so much of the negativity at the moment is blatant FUD and concern-trolling. Abby wasn't an issue when we were introduced to the character at PGW 2017, and neither was the heavy implication of Joel being dead/a ghost going back to the original reveal 5 years back... Its all bogus.

I mean its interesting that the genuinely cool and interesting bits from the leak (the Factions screen, the zombie on the car hood/crash sequence) are being summarily ignored so the usual suspects can whinge about IdPol and stuff from a 4chan "leak" that isnt actually supported by the video footage uploaded.

Its an awful, toxic, situation.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
First thing is the plot of the first game was pretty boiler-plate too, however it was elevated massively by its treatment. Given that this is the same creative team I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt, at this point.

I'd also caution that the nature of these leaks seems contrived to hurt the game, and that being the case I'd be concerned that what's been shown was cherry-picked to give a certain negative impression.

There's been enough footage shown outside of this to indicate that the infected are still a threat and that there are several factions in the world, so trying to imply that this revenge thread is all there is to the game is patently nonsensical.

I'm sorry but so much of the negativity at the moment is blatant FUD and concern-trolling. Abby wasn't an issue when we were introduced to the character at PGW 2017, and neither was the heavy implication of Joel being dead/a ghost going back to the original reveal 5 years back... Its all bogus.

I mean its interesting that the genuinely cool and interesting bits from the leak (the Factions screen, the zombie on the car hood/crash sequence) are being summarily ignored so the usual suspects can whinge about IdPol and stuff from a 4chan "leak" that isnt actually supported by the video footage uploaded.

Its an awful, toxic, situation.

The revenge thing seems like it should be a subplot and not the main focus of the game. With that said, I hope you're right and the execution is great, and there is a lot of interesting stuff in the game to look forward to. I probably won't be there day 1, but I'll be keeping an eye on impressions after launch to see if I want to pick it up.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
The revenge thing seems like it should be a subplot and not the main focus of the game. With that said, I hope you're right and the execution is great, and there is a lot of interesting stuff in the game to look forward to. I probably won't be there day 1, but I'll be keeping an eye on impressions after launch to see if I want to pick it up.

Bottom line for me is that although, yes, the game could suck, and the whole lesbian romance angle thing being pushed up-front did feel like disingenuous, obvious grab for faddish political currency, there is nothing in the leaked footage that justifies the idiocy being spouted by a lot of people at the moment. Nothing.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
The leak goes BEYOND negative press. It's exposing a bad product and people are canceling pre-orders and will lose millions just because of it. Wait until reviews start coming in, that's when the shit will hit the fan.

People haven't played the game, they're react based on plot leak plot points and most of them have key details wrong.

Outside of that, you're banking on reviewers getting upset because they're trying to push politics by having a female take out one of the main characters.


You know how many people wanted to boycot video games and it turned out to sell well?

Yeah, you can't always believe that negative press will result in the game doing poorly.
 

Airola

Member
I have zero investment in this series. I have never played the first game and I have no interest to play it or this sequel. I have seen the first game played through in some "let's play" show so I know how the first game goes though.

So that said, having no interest in these games, I went on and looked at the spoilers and I'm actually liking what I'm reading! :D

I don't know why people are so much against what the leaks tell because to me the twists sound very good. Haven't watched any videos though. Only read some summary which I'm not sure is correct. If it's true though, I'm actually legit positively surprised they went that route.
 
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