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[Anya7890]

I feel like they've gone the GoT route with him by killing him off.

I think that’s 100% what they’re going for, Ellie’s arc is a lot like Arya with the whole hunting people down thing, Joel dying is a combination of ned‘s death & the red wedding, & with Abby it might be a weird merge between Jaime & Cersei Lannister. A d I personally don’t see the problem in going in that direction tbh as nothing of its genre has reach that level yet. the closest to something like that would be walking dead season 7, but that’s about it.

 

[Jon Neu]

My sides are now with Sephiroth.

 

[LaughingStock]

Errr, you're kinda forgetting this is set in a post-apocalyptic dystopia where Ellie has had to kill to survive and has been surrounded by death and zombies all her young life. And you think she should be concerned with make-up and boy bands like a "proper" teen girl?

Humanity wasn't born in a luxury condo. We struggled for survival for thousands of years. And it never turned women into men. A zombie apocalypse wouldn't be any different.
There is a trend in western entertainment to portray women as men. Beauty is a sin. Lack of feminine features is mandatory. And i'm not talking about bikini armor or giant tits.

Having said that, i'm not criticizing the portrayal of Ellie. Just alluding to the fact that in general that's what i see in most pieces of western entertainment nowadays.

 

[filigreti]

Humanity wasn't born in a luxury condo. We struggled for survival for thousands of years. And it never turned women into men. A zombie apocalypse wouldn't be any different.
There is a trend in western entertainment to portray women as men. Beauty is a sin. Lack of feminine features is mandatory. And i'm not talking about bikini armor or giant tits.

Having said that, i'm not criticizing the portrayal of Ellie. Just alluding to the fact that in general that's what i see in most pieces of western entertainment nowadays.

Did this man just say a zombie apocalypse wouldn't be different from every day life, i bet you eat three meals a day, go to the cinema, flex with your friends, dont have to worry bout not eating once a week, or go from location to the other to survive, or watch most of the people you know get converted, nah, it would be so much as today

 

[Woggleman]

People are already freaking out because of how Corona has changed life so imagine living in a world where society has completely crumbled beyond repair and you have to worry about clickers, bloaters and various people who will kill you on sight.

 

[Karppuuna]

Humanity wasn't born in a luxury condo. We struggled for survival for thousands of years. And it never turned women into men. A zombie apocalypse wouldn't be any different.
There is a trend in western entertainment to portray women as men. Beauty is a sin. Lack of feminine features is mandatory. And i'm not talking about bikini armor or giant tits.

Having said that, i'm not criticizing the portrayal of Ellie. Just alluding to the fact that in general that's what i see in most pieces of western entertainment nowadays.

This is completely bullshit statement.

Zombie apocalypse would turn everybody completely psychopathic maniacs, there wouldn't be any more concept of women or male, everybody would just try to survive and the weak would get killed first, only the most graziest people would be left in the end.

 

[Woggleman]

Strong women and LGBT people should not even be considered an agenda. It should just be an accepted fact of life.

 

[AtomicStarving]

Looks like ND twitter profile is blocking people as well. Don't get me wrong, I'm sill gonna play the game in the future (because my backlist is full rn), but seems like they really want to force this game and its agenda (already proven) deep into all the fans throat. It's kinda bizarre.

 

[Woggleman]

They are not forcing anything. Nobody here is required to play the game if they don't want but they know that most of the comments will be hateful crap that has nothing to with actual game criticism so it is a good decision.

 

[Niked]

Already seen it a few days back, dude gets about 20 things wrong, and I'm not just talking about the leaks. Try to find informed people next time.

Instead of being a duche bag, please educate me of your brilliance.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Looks like ND twitter profile is blocking people as well. Don't get me wrong, I'm sill gonna play the game in the future (because my backlist is full rn), but seems like they really want to force this game and its agenda (already proven) deep into all the fans throat. It's kinda bizarre.

The main problem with the way TLOU2 was promoted is that the previous trailers focused too much on character traits rather than on the characters themselves. Today's trailer, when looking at it strictly from a promotional standpoint, was really good because it focused more on the characters, not their traits.

 

[TGO]

What's the possibility somethings would have changed since the leaked stuff?

 

[MagnesG]

This is completely bullshit statement.

Zombie apocalypse would turn everybody completely psychopathic maniacs, there wouldn't be any more concept of women or male, everybody would just try to survive and the weak would get killed first, only the most graziest people would be left in the end.

If we're back to uncivilised times, annoying women or men would be killed first. Women who act like proper women would survive on the premise of protection from strong men. That's just the how the world works in general.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

If we're back to uncivilised times, annoying women or men would be killed first. Women who act like proper women would survive on the premise of protection from strong men. That's just the how the world works in general.

Akshually, your list of priorities are in the wrong order /s

 

[Strategize]

Instead of being a duche bag, please educate me of your brilliance.

Addressing a few of his points...
1) "Corporations don't care as much as the creator" It's the same writer director as the first one.
2) The christian homophobic cult thing isn't even confirmed. It was part of a fake leak a month ago that people threw in with everything else.
3) It's not confirmed whether Ellie dies.
4) Joel and Ellie are not heroes just because we like them, the game asking us to question that is not bad writing.
5) Abby is not Trans.
6) Plenty of people like both the gameplay and the story.
7) No, they aren't asking you for more of the first game, they ask for whatever the trailers show. Which is a revenge story with TLOU gameplay.
8) Cycle of violence was already a part of the first game in someways, kicking off a story based on what Joel is actually one of the most honest ways to approach it.
9) How the player feels towards Abby or Ellie while playing as them is not something leaks or even out of context footage can answer.

 

[Raphael]

Whats the chance of all this being a huge marketing ploy under the "question everything" tag? I know there is no chance but one can dream.

 

[TreyCinco]

Idk how the leak will affect sales, but the first sold around 17 million, idk how much of that was on PS4, maybe around 7-8 million or more. There’s a chance part 2 won’t have a stand-alone ps5 title, so that cuts a lot of money off the top, no micro transactions that I know of, so ND was very brave trying to pull a bait and switch on this game with characters people love. Even if they lose a few hundred thousand sales due to the leaks and negative reception of the plot, they’re going to feel it and hopefully drunkmaam will get the axe and go join his buddy Anita on her female podcast, he’ll fit right in. She took his balls 4-5 years ago

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Idk how the leak will affect sales, but the first sold around 17 million, idk how much of that was on PS4, maybe around 7-8 million or more. There’s a chance part 2 won’t have a stand-alone ps5 title, so that cuts a lot of money off the top, no micro transactions that I know of, so ND was very brave trying to pull a bait and switch on this game with characters people love. Even if they lose a few hundred thousand sales due to the leaks and negative reception of the plot, they’re going to feel it and hopefully drunkmaam will get the axe and go join his buddy Anita on her female podcast, he’ll fit right in. She took his balls 4-5 years ago

As of October 2019, TLOU1 sold over 20 million copies. We know that 7 million of those copies were the PS3 version. So the amount of unique players is somewhere between 13 to 20 million.

 

[Karppuuna]

If we're back to uncivilised times, annoying women or men would be killed first. Women who act like proper women would survive on the premise of protection from strong men. That's just the how the world works in general.

Zombie apocalypse is little more than "uncivilized times" It would mean that nothing docent matter any more and 99% of people would get mently ill, because they couldn't handle to see all those zombies wondering around in the streets. It would be absolutely madness, only the most graziest women and men would survive.

 

[TreyCinco]

As of October 2019, TLOU1 sold over 20 million copies. We know that 7 million of those copies were the PS3 version. So the amount of unique players is somewhere between 13 to 20 million.

That’s way more than I thought especially on PS4. It would seem like with the negativity surrounding this game, they almost have to release a stand alone remaster on the ps5 to get anywhere close to 20 million

 

[Karppuuna]

I bet that when the game is out and people actually play it, it`s going to be awesome and reviews are of the roof, Naughty Dog is worlds best gaming company right now and i trust them to deliver.
It may seem little odd and strange when you read the spoilers, but the big picture is what matters and we are talking about 20h game, a lot is going to happen in that time.

I think it´s stupid to shit a game that you havent play even a 1 sec.

 

[joe_zazen]

.

Zombie apocalypse is little more than "uncivilized times" It would mean that nothing docent matter any more and 99% of people would get mently ill, because they couldn't handle to see all those zombies wondering around in the streets. It would be absolutely madness, only the most graziest women and men would survive.

the power of humanity lay in the collective, whether family, local community, city, state, or nation. Lone wolves die out, the pack survives. And female lone wolves would die out first in a post apocalyptic world of chaos and violence.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

That’s way more than I thought especially on PS4. It would seem like with the negativity surrounding this game, they almost have to release a stand alone remaster on the ps5 to get anywhere close to 20 million

The problem is Sony can't just remaster TLOU2 and sell it as a standalone product without getting massive backlash. All PS4 games can, at worst, be played on the PS5 on the PS4/PS4 Pro legacy modes. I doubt Sony locking a PS5 patch behind a paywall will sit well with consumers either.

 

[MagnesG]

Zombie apocalypse is little more than "uncivilized times" It would mean that nothing docent matter any more and 99% of people would get mently ill, because they couldn't handle to see all those zombies wondering around in the streets. It would be absolutely madness, only the most graziest women and men would survive.

Lol, and most men are already the graziest ones if going by your standards and only a tiny portion of women would pass the test. Others will be safely protected with elders and children. The natural progression would work by itself, technology and knowledge does little to hinder it at the end. It's been like that since the ancient times, it's not gonna change as there's nothing that can replace the natural balance of complementary relationship between men and women from the start.

We'll see how it goes if an outbreak happens in this world, when you have to kill to survive it doesn't take long for other carnal instincts to follow through.

Also do you know who would risk themselves getting mentally ill the most? The one who went out for war to fought for the greater good, the one who actually gets the job done. The rest will kicks in to keep them sane.

Forgot to mention that any preaching outliers will be killed instantly or at least abandoned.

 

[DForce]

Looks like ND twitter profile is blocking people as well. Don't get me wrong, I'm sill gonna play the game in the future (because my backlist is full rn), but seems like they really want to force this game and its agenda (already proven) deep into all the fans throat. It's kinda bizarre.

This is literally head shaking.

They're blocking people who are SPOILING the game. Only people forcing an agenda are people who are trying to bring politics into this game.

 

[TreyCinco]

The problem is Sony can't just remaster TLOU2 and sell it as a standalone product without getting massive backlash. All PS4 games can, at worst, be played on the PS5 on the PS4/PS4 Pro legacy modes. I doubt Sony locking a PS5 patch behind a paywall will sit well with consumers either.

That’s true, idk maybe they can add some dlc and multiplayer to justify stand-alone product. By the time the ps5 drops, they should be use to the backlash by then

 

[Karppuuna]

as there's nothing that can replace the natural balance of complementary relationship between men and women from the start.

I dont know what country you live but In many countries womens are all ready in charge (like here in Finland) I assume that those kind of natural leaders would strive in apocalypse too.

 

[Woggleman]

If the game does well then simply patching in PS5 enhancements will increase sales. When they patched in PS4 Pro enhancements for the first one sales went up.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

I dont know what country you live but In many countries womens are all ready in charge (like here in Finland) I assume that those kind of natural leaders would strive in apocalypse too.

That doesn't make up for the disparity in upper body strength and endurance between the sexes, both of which would be important in a zombie apocalypse. For instance, why is it that women's tennis matches only last for a max of 3 games while men's tennis matches last for a max of 5 games?

 

[MagnesG]

I dont know what country you live but In many countries womens are all ready in charge (like here in Finland) I assume that those kind of natural leaders would strive in apocalypse too.

We've also had female emperors in the past, doesn't mean most women can survive without men. And that's not a bad thing at all.

 

[Renozokii]

Humanity wasn't born in a luxury condo. We struggled for survival for thousands of years. And it never turned women into men. A zombie apocalypse wouldn't be any different.
There is a trend in western entertainment to portray women as men. Beauty is a sin. Lack of feminine features is mandatory. And i'm not talking about bikini armor or giant tits.

Having said that, i'm not criticizing the portrayal of Ellie. Just alluding to the fact that in general that's what i see in most pieces of western entertainment nowadays.

People say this, and then they can list 10, maybe 20 examples. Ignoring the facts that tens of thousands of entertainment pieces come out in the west a year. Nearly every single popular and/or a list actress is objectively attractive. Most females in western games either are attractive, or look like women you'd pass in the street. This entire war on beauty narrative this forum constantly attempts to perpetuate is just wrong. It feels more like developers just not making worlds where females are perfect in every way and giving you all more shit to jack to. The girl people are complaining about for this game is obviously pretty fucking built, But I fail to understand why you all won't acknowledge that females can get built on a high protein diet with enough exercise. The reason you don't see a lot of them is because females mostly work out to stay slim. Ellie on the other hands looks completely feminine.

https://cdn.gamer-network.net/2018/usgamer/the-last-of-us-part-2-ellie-church.jpg

Take that character, add some make up, boom, an objectively attractive female half the people in this place would be too nervous to look in the eyes.

 

[yeeeeeezy]

please answer this q and nothing else: is Abby a muscular woman or a transgender?

 

[Explosive Zombie]

please answer this q and nothing else: is Abby a muscular woman or a transgender?

Muscular woman.

 

[yeeeeeezy]

Muscular woman.

Thanks. So is that the extent TLOU went woke? I'm really curious as to the political angle here while not getting specific on spoilers.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Thanks. So is that the extent TLOU went woke? I'm really curious as to the political angle here while not getting specific on spoilers.

I don't totally understand the assertion the game is woke. Besides a lesbian romance and Abby being muscular... I just don't see it. Like if that's the extent to which it's woke I'll be fine, clearly some others won't be.

 

[yeeeeeezy]

I don't totally understand the assertion the game is woke. Besides a lesbian romance and Abby being muscular... I just don't see it. Like if that's the extent to which it's woke I'll be fine, clearly some others won't be.

Unless someone can make a better case for the game going woke - it seems like many anti sjw folks with a political agenda have an axe to grind with ND.

 

[DForce]

Someone pointed this out on Twitter.


Leaked footage.

Trailer footage

Someone might say the leaked footage is new, but look the tattoo on her arm.

1. Joel is older
2. The tattoo on her arm looks like the final version.

 

[Falcs]

Also

 

[Macapala]

This is literally head shaking.

They're blocking people who are SPOILING the game. Only people forcing an agenda are people who are trying to bring politics into this game.

Blocking comments to suppress spoilers is understandable, but saying people are bringing politics into the game.... seriously? The politics are already in the game. Not to mention Druckmann has made it pretty clear where he stands politically.

 

[Woggleman]

Politics are not a part of this game though unless you consider the existence of LGBT people itself political. It says nothing about actual political issue. People are calling this a radical feminist game but Abby is trying to avenge the death of her father and is seemingly in a happy relationship with a man. I can't stand the actual misandrists who go around saying men are trash but I am just not seeing any of that here.

 

[Paracelsus]

Politics are not a part of this game though unless you consider the existence of LGBT people itself political. It says nothing about actual political issue. People are calling this a radical feminist game but Abby is trying to avenge the death of her father and is seemingly in a happy relationship with a man. I can't stand the actual misandrists who go around saying men are trash but I am just not seeing any of that here.

If you know all the spoilers, then read the top comments.

Spoiler

At this point it has become obvious the political "bait and switch". John Connor getting killed in five minutes and replaced by this? Politics.

You can even make the argument TLOU2 killed the last two cis men (one of which was diverse by the way) left in the main storyline.
Lev is a trans man (Ian Alexander), so.

 

[Macapala]

Politics are not a part of this game though unless you consider the existence of LGBT people itself political. It says nothing about actual political issue. People are calling this a radical feminist game but Abby is trying to avenge the death of her father and is seemingly in a happy relationship with a man. I can't stand the actual misandrists who go around saying men are trash but I am just not seeing any of that here.

LGBTQ topics have been a huge part of political discussion for quite some time now. The fact that TLOU2 has a very strong focus on political issues is no coincidence. And there is nothing wrong with discussing politics in any form of media.

Like I said in my previous post, Druckmann has made it very clear where he stands politically and he has also criticized other developers on the content of their games. He's saying "My views are correct, yours are wrong. Don't agree? Then you are a bigot". When shit like this happens, it no surprise people start to lose their patience.

Again, I've got no issues discussing these topics, but when you're talking with someone who has the mentality "I'm right and everyone else is worng", that is just infuriatingly frustrating.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

 

[Iced Arcade]

Man (or ma'am) I really hope all the leaked stuff turns out to be a controlled fake.

 

[Jon Neu]

Unless someone can make a better case for the game going woke - it seems like many anti sjw folks with a political agenda have an axe to grind with ND.

Again with this crap?

The creator of the game literally acknowledged that a crazy feminist influences his games.

He has literally outlined how some design choices are sexist (by his political ideology) and how other designs are “positive” (by his political ideology). He has literally told the world how he expresses his politics through the character’s design.

He is making design choices based on a political agenda, if you are fine with them (I’m sure you are) it’s irrelevant, but is the text book definition of having and agenda.

He is politically motivated and he makes certain aspects of his games to deliver a certain political message, accept it and move on.

 

[yeeeeeezy]

Again with this crap?

The creator of the game literally acknowledged that a crazy feminist influences his games.

He has literally outlined how some design choices are sexist (by his political ideology) and how other designs are “positive” (by his political ideology). He has literally told the world how he expresses his politics through the character’s design.

He is making design choices based on a political agenda, if you are fine with them (I’m sure you are) it’s irrelevant, but is the text book definition of having and agenda.

He is politically motivated and he makes certain aspects of his games to deliver a certain political message, accept it and move on.

I ask for how TLOU2 went woke and you point to power point presentations. Please cite examples from the game so we can explore deeper what you mean

 

[Halo is Back]

This is literally head shaking.

They're blocking people who are SPOILING the game. Only people forcing an agenda are people who are trying to bring politics into this game.

Why did Sony disable likes then?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Again with this crap?

The creator of the game literally acknowledged that a crazy feminist influences his games.

He has literally outlined how some design choices are sexist (by his political ideology) and how other designs are “positive” (by his political ideology). He has literally told the world how he expresses his politics through the character’s design.

He is making design choices based on a political agenda, if you are fine with them (I’m sure you are) it’s irrelevant, but is the text book definition of having and agenda.

He is politically motivated and he makes certain aspects of his games to deliver a certain political message, accept it and move on.

Yup. Anyone who thinks gamers only hate the game because the main villain is a bulked up Abby is wrong. That's just a fake excuse trying to make people look bad. Almost every main villain in games is bulked up more than the gamer's characters anyway.

And doubling and tripling down, ND kills off Joel making the game's remaining leads all female. And then forces gamers in the second part of the game to play the character that clubbed Joel.

It's one thing to have more female leads and even a beefed up Abby adding more characters to the mix. But killing off fan favourite Joel just made it worse.

It goes like this for Sony defenders:

Defender: All you people hate the game because Abby looks like a dude on roids

Gamer 1: Nope. I don't like it because Joel gets knocked off

Gamer 2: Nope. I don't want LoU2 to be a heavy story driven game about soap opera teenage lesbians when it should be surviving zombies and bandits

Gamer 3. Nope. I want to play as Joel or Ellie in the game. Not a character who smashes Joel's head in for half the game

Gamer 4. Nope. The story is screwy because it's a stretch the revenge plot is based off a daughter of a dead surgeon nobody cares about in the first game. The main plot or villain should be something more blatant and obvious, not an obscure plot possibility

Gamer 5. Nope. Lev might be a transgender character and is even based off an actor who is in real life (Ian Alexander). None of us care if that bald Asian character is trans or not

Defender: Uhhhhhhhhhh...... but all you people hate the game because of transgenders!

 

[Jon Neu]

I ask for how TLOU2 went woke and you point to power point presentations. Please cite examples from the game so we can explore deeper what you mean

We don’t need to explore anything, again, Cuckmann himself has said so. Whatever rationalizations you could invent as to why X,Y,Z isn’t woke are irrelevant and a waste of time.

 

[lachesis]

To be honest, I am not bothered with Ellie being gay, or Abby being he/she/they or whatever pronoun is. If the character fits into the shoe - I am fine. Even if there's some sort of hidden agenda - as long as the story makes sense and keeps me engaged, I really care any less on the gender or whatnot. Being masters of storytelling - I'm sure they spent a lot of time to make things sensible and understandable.

What bothers me though - is being forced to partake to play Abby in fight against Ellie. And that seems to be the key point to the game. To experience the other side and why they are also just.

I haven't seen the whole leak - but it seems like Joel's death is pretty early in the game - and I was always thinking Ellie's revenge was about Dina - either she got kidnapped or killed by the hostile group. I guess that was the trick that they set up. If the scenes of Joel's death correct - it looks like it's part of FMV. He would get killed in an event scene, not by my choice of playing Abby.

It's brutal and as a fan of the first game - very disappointing - but I get it. He became pretty resolved character at the end of the first game. Not Ellie, but he did. He did what he wanted to do and succeeded - even if he saved Ellie against her own will by lying to her. I would do the same to save my own daughter, if I was in the same position. Having said so - I don't dislike Abby because of her gender or looks - I just don't like her because Abby killed Joel. Spent many hours playing him in the original, and being a single father with a daughter, I related to him the most in the game and with his own faults and all - I liked the guy.

But having to play as the character who kills him - and actively fight against Ellie at some point in the game in such brutal way... Ellie, the character that I spent most time fighting, protecting and chatting and bonding with the full duration of last game - it's something that's pretty difficult to put my hands on - at least at this point of time. If it's all FMV, I may be able to watch in like in 3rd person view, but having to actively participate - I'm not sure if I would want to. Actually, I don't want to.. as much as I want to play the game and find out what happens. I'm sure they would put some good story behind Abby's group too to make them likable and relatable - making the final clash between Ellie and Abby being even more tragic - but at this point - I just don't feel like playing Abby at all. If I did, I may just sit there and take in all the fire in every possible way for my cheap way of revenge of my own.

After all, it's just a game. Digital pixels and all... but it feels like Naughty Dog is telling me to put my hands dirty with this digital guilt if I want to play the game. It's a fine line - sure I head-shot many enemies in these types of games - but somehow, this feels much more personal and visceral. The sheer brutality of the original game was hard and made me feel pretty bad... but looks like this one is going to one-up, I mean many up on that one even more... with a golf club.

I mean, I now think of all the guys that I killed with the pickax while playing as Lara Croft... Oh the horror..