Support NeoGAF

[BearPawB]

I don't understand how anyone can call this season disjointed, when the last season had Anne Frank, Nazis, Aliens, Beasts, serial killers, possessions and so much more i am forgetting.

This season had witches. And it pretty much stuck to that theme.
That being said it was still a complete mess that didn't go anywhere.

There needs to be a better overal arc for this show to work. It is why murder house remains the best season.

Sidenotes:

It is a sin to not have a better character arc for zoe and tate (forget his name this season). They are the best, and were given nothing worthwhile to do. A complete shame.

I hope Kathy Bates comes back, she is great. This could be the "old actress show" and i would gobble up every second of it.

All i ask is that they stop trying to throw every idea they have into one season. If you want to do aliens, do aliens right. If you want to do witches, don't waste episodes on the axe man. Just a little bit of focus would be nice.

 

[EulaCapra]

Knew Cordelia would become the Supreme and Fiona enchanted that memory, but surprised Fiona couldn't finish the job in eliminating all of them like with Cordelia's premonition.

But yeah, Madison's end. Jesus. WTF. That was 100 levels of stupid.

I still liked the season for the most part. I only had moments of plot hesitation during the last 3 episodes. I don't mind the the Witch Hunters and Hank/Luke and Patti LuPone getting taken out abruptly without delving much into them since it is about the Coven after all.

But let me point out BuzzFeed's article titled "Where American Horror Story: Coven Went Wrong."

I'll agree with: the inconsistent rules of their powers. How Fiona killed Madison because Madison was the first to manifest a new power or two even though episodes later, the rest followed in learning them. And also Zoe's unique killer vagina power was never mentioned again.

I'll also partially agree with the treatment of women and how a show that looks very feminist with the large female cast could become a little catty when it came down to finding who the next Supreme was. But I also view it as the bitchy, catty females who only wanted there to be one HBIC in the whole world got their dues and died while the good ones rose up and carried on the covenhood.

Disagree with: Fiona and Cordelia reconciling in the end was farfetched? It's out of character for mothers and daughters to NOT reconcile when one is dying?

Delphine had bipolar motives switching over from evil to redemption back to evil? Uh, no. While she could be touched by having a friendship with Queenie and crying over the Civil Rights Movement (unless she cried because they won lol), she was always crazy and bad. No redemption necessary.

Cordelia suddenly being the Supreme. No. Ever since she lost her eyesight the first time around, Fiona and Myrtle said foresight is a powerful ability to have. The audience should have inferred from that point on that Cordelia holds great inner power. Should have been even clearer when Fiona yells at her saying that the power was always inside her, she didn't need to gouge her eyes out.

Another side note: Really weird that all of Sarah Paulson's characters turned out alive by the end and were all really goody-goody characters.

 

[Camp Lo]

Loved this season. Only one I wouldn't mind watching through again. I might even buy the box set.

 

[TheSeks]

I don't understand how anyone can call this season disjointed, when the last season had Anne Frank, Nazis, Aliens, Beasts, serial killers, possessions and so much more i am forgetting.

This season had witches. And it pretty much stuck to that theme.
That being said it was still a complete mess that didn't go anywhere.

There needs to be a better overal arc for this show to work. It is why murder house remains the best season.

What? No. No. No. Nonono.gif

Murderhouse was weak because of that demon baby plot. The only claim to fame it has is at least they stuck with that and characters that were dead stayed dead

Spoiler

and kept in the house forever

. Well that and Constance. Ending was weak and probably will never be resolved when it cries out for Lange to have another season to resolve that cliffhanger.

Sidenotes:

It is a sin to not have a better character arc for zoe and tate (forget his name this season). They are the best, and were given nothing worthwhile to do. A complete shame.

See above .gif Kyle wasn't used for most anything besides a love triangle and that's only to cause a rivaly between Madison and Zoe.

All i ask is that they stop trying to throw every idea they have into one season. If you want to do aliens, do aliens right. If you want to do witches, don't waste episodes on the axe man. Just a little bit of focus would be nice.

I think everyone can agree that there is too many plots that spoil the broth. They need to downsize their world-building or FFS give multi-seasons for it to breathe. Stop painting themselves into the "one season per story" corner, it obviously doesn't work.

 

[braves01]

So I finally caught up...ugh

Spoiler

1.) I'm mostly disappointed it's over

2.) The Stevie Nicks cameos were really lame every time

3.) Weiner and Paula Deen spots were funny...but lame

4.) Didn't like the character arcs as much as season 1 or 2

5.) Asylum remains the strongest season

6.) I hope season 4 is sci-fi a la Aliens-type horror

 

[Father_Brain]

I don't understand how anyone can call this season disjointed, when the last season had Anne Frank, Nazis, Aliens, Beasts, serial killers, possessions and so much more i am forgetting.

This season had witches. And it pretty much stuck to that theme.
That being said it was still a complete mess that didn't go anywhere.

There needs to be a better overal arc for this show to work. It is why murder house remains the best season.

Sidenotes:

It is a sin to not have a better character arc for zoe and tate (forget his name this season). They are the best, and were given nothing worthwhile to do. A complete shame.

I hope Kathy Bates comes back, she is great. This could be the "old actress show" and i would gobble up every second of it.

All i ask is that they stop trying to throw every idea they have into one season. If you want to do aliens, do aliens right. If you want to do witches, don't waste episodes on the axe man. Just a little bit of focus would be nice.

Witches are a plot element, not a theme. This season was just a complete mess on both a narrative and thematic level. I honestly can't tell you what it was about, beyond the word "witches."

 

[LaNaranja]

Did anyone else find it fucked up how none of the witches really gave a shit that Misty was stuck in hell? As soon as she died they were all playing tag :/

Also was the happy ending really all that happy? Papa Legba told Marie that any good she did would not cancel out the bad. Queenie is still going to end up in hell after killing that homeless and taking out his heart and Zoe killed that frat boy and the servant (and gave her soul to the devil when bringing back Kyle). Pretty much everyone but Cordelia is guaranteed to end up there because they were all evil. Except Misty, she got a raw deal

I don't understand how anyone can call this season disjointed, when the last season had Anne Frank, Nazis, Aliens, Beasts, serial killers, possessions and so much more i am forgetting.

This season had witches. And it pretty much stuck to that theme.

This season had witches, voodoo, witch hunters, ghosts, an axe murderer, an immortal torturer, frankenstein's monster, a Jesus freak, the devil, a rapist, zombies, a minotaur and much more I am forgetting.

 

[Snake]

What a disappointment Coven turned out to be. Biggest fall from grace of this television season.

It's especially sad since I was so on board at the beginning and made excuse after excuse to myself long after. Now I can't help but wonder if something disastrous was happening behind the scenes. The incompetence of the writing/arc-work is simply astonishing. Even Murder House had coherent scenes with a sprinkling of entertainment in its latter episodes. I can't remember liking a single thing about this finale.

The best case scenario is that American Horror Story is establishing an 'odd season = bad, even season = good' dynamic and we'll have something to look forward to soon enough.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

What a disappointment Coven turned out to be. Biggest fall from grace of this television season.

It's especially sad since I was so on board at the beginning and made excuse after excuse to myself long after. Now I can't help but wonder if something disastrous was happening behind the scenes. The incompetence of the writing/arc-work is simply astonishing. Even Murder House had coherent scenes with a sprinkling of entertainment in its latter episodes. I can't remember liking a single thing about this finale.

The best case scenario is that American Horror Story is establishing an 'odd season = bad, even season = good' dynamic and we'll have something to look forward to soon enough.

I have to think its poor planning and organization. Even from reading interviews it seems like they were writing out episodes and then filming them not too far out from when they were supposed to air.

I also have to agree with you. The first 4 or 5 episodes were very good the characters were great, the settings and themes were fun and the twists were getting good. Then after that it all fell apart. Character motivations and powers stopped making sense. Entire episodes were almost entirely useless and after all the build up most of the arcs ended in a wet fart. Fiona was fickle which was fine but it was so poorly done. She physically, emotionally and mentally abused her daughter for marrying a witch hunter while becoming BFFs with the one who hired the witch hunter to infiltrate the coven and kill them all and this all happened in one scene. They poorly explained Queenie's motivation who let a racist maid convince her to leave the coven when she seemed happy in previous episodes. Stevie Nick's cameos were terrible and wasted screen time. In addition it seemed like they were happy to get Patti Lupone on the show but had no idea what to do with her so they gave her a plot that went nowhere. Given that I found episodes 6-10 to be absolute train wrecks I didn't think the final three episodes were bad all things considered, imo.

I will say a seeming problem with all the seasons is that they never have any good way of wrapping out season arcs. The witch hunter conclusion was bizarre, uneventful and made little sense. For centuries witches have been hunted and killed by them and all it took was for them to go up with them and hit them with an axe. Not too mention the incredible power that marie and fiona did to bring them to their knees only to kill them off so easily and simply. Although Asylum had these issues they were not as bad because there was a lot of good things going for the season, the character arcs were well done and the pacing was really good. Sister Jude, Lana Winters and Kit Walker had great progression and entertaining arcs. I loved Sister Jude's conclusion and her scenes with Kit and the kids at the ends.

If I had written this season I would've set the season in the 1600's in Salem. The cast would've all been there and the plot would've riffed a bit off The Crucible. Kathy Bates would still be a horrific slave owner that tortured her daughters and slaves. Marie would've been the slave Tibuta who performs voodoo on the town and in particular Kathy Bates character. Emma Roberts would've still been a manipulative bitch who hooked up with the men in town, went out drinking, got the others into trouble and pinned witchcraft onto the innocent so that they burned. Fiona would've still been the Supreme masquerading as a widow with her daughter Cordelia. Dylan could've been the chief of the town. Zoey and Kyle could've had their romance with Zoey coming to terms that she was a witch. Witch hunters could've still come in and added tension trying to sniff the witches out.

 

[Barrage]

So...is the baby just stuck with Spalding forever or wtf

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Oh, and that dog from Murder House. He should have had powers as well.

Bless U

How come that Spalding wasnt sent to hell ?

And whatever happened to that baby he had anyway?

FFS give multi-seasons for it to breathe. Stop painting themselves into the "one season per story" corner, it obviously doesn't work.

That's the very antithesis of what this show is though. The way to make the show better isn't to stretch things out across multiple seasons - the solution is to show some self control by stripping away all of the superfluous shit and focusing on a handful of characters (a handful, not 12-13) and a handful of storylines every year. i.e. they need to learn how to properly write a self contained season of television.

One way to go about achieving that goal is to cut loose most of the actors. It's nice that Murphy wants to provide work to all of the same actors year after year, but they're really bogging the show down. Cull the cast - keep a few and get rid of the rest. Build the season around those characters and don't introduce a million different sub plots unless you can figure out how to make them all coherent and interesting.

And bring back the dog.

 

[Nemesis_]

They could've rolled Joan and Lalaurie into one character, I reckon. Have them become friends. Have Lalaurie be a religious zealot but also a racist. The big twist would be that she is the actual Lalaurie. Replace Luke with Kyle, for some reason, maybe, and have him as the next door neighbour who develops a crush on Zoe.

It could kind of work. It sounds better in my head than on paper though. But I think that might even be what happened - then Ryan got the chance to work with Patti LuPone and developed her into her own character.

It would make sense for someone like Lalaurie to be friends with Fiona as neighbours but then when she finds out they're witches, hunt them down herself.

Maybe i'm just vomiting words

 

[HarryHengst]

The final ten minutes was the weakest metaphor for homosexuality i've ever seen. Sjeez.

 

[BertramCooper]

The final ten minutes was the weakest metaphor for homosexuality i've ever seen. Sjeez.

Pretty much. Witches randomly end up being an allegory for the gays.

Flawless Ryan Murphy storytelling.

I think everyone can agree that there is too many plots that spoil the broth. They need to downsize their world-building or FFS give multi-seasons for it to breathe. Stop painting themselves into the "one season per story" corner, it obviously doesn't work.

Ratsky is right on the money here. The problem isn't the length of the narrative - thirteen eps is more than enough time to tell a full, satisfying story - the problem is Murphy's inability to restrain himself. He stuffs too many characters and too many extraneous b-plots and can't focus on building a coherent central story.

And perhaps the biggest strength of AHS is its ability to reset after every season. Instead of having to deal with multiple seasons of this bullshit (and I think it's safe to say that many of us, myself included, wouldn't be returning if Coven were coming back), we can breathe a sigh of relief because Coven is dead, and it's never coming back. Next season, whatever it ends up being about, is an opportunity for a fresh start.

One way to go about achieving that goal is to cut loose most of the actors. It's nice that Murphy wants to provide work to all of the same actors year after year, but they're really bogging the show down. Cull the cast - keep a few and get rid of the rest. Build the season around those characters and don't introduce a million different sub plots unless you can figure out how to make them all coherent and interesting.

And bring back the dog.

At this point, the only actors I'd really want to come back are Sarah Paulson and Lily Rabe. Prior to this season, I absolutely would have said Jessica Lange, but it's becoming pretty clear that her heart isn't in this show anymore. (And who could blame her?)

I like Evan Peters - especially his work on Asylum - but if Murphy has to bend over backwards to shoehorn him into the show like he did this season, it's not worth bringing him back.

 

[toastyToast]

I got a headache from how bad the ending of this season was. Throw me a bone, fuck. It's the goddamn finale. "Hey, Cordelia. I'm pretty sure you're the Supreme." [power intensifies] The whole season she was brewing up shitty potions that didn't even work. It's not like they explained how the girls got sudden surges of power either. After the opener I was expecting Madison to go around fucking shit up but then she died but then she comes back to life and does fuck all. Zoe + Kyle = terrible. Fiona was easily the worst of Lange's roles. Angela Basset and Kathy Bates were the best part of the season by far and both their time and talent was wasted being relegated to second fiddle with all the boring shit happening in the witch house. Also, Marie Laveau partnering up with Fiona and that brief stint where they were chummy, what the hell was that? The Witch Hunters, what a bunch of goobers. Axe man murdered all of them, no powers needed. ONE GUY!

I'm not looking forward to season 4 at all.

 

[Nemesis_]

I honestly think that this might be Season 4.

Someone brought this to my attention on Twitter and it just seems like such a perfect fit for American Horror Story that it could work.

• Brigitte Höss, now 80, has kept family secret for most of her life
• As a child she lived in a villa beside Auschwitz where her father was the Kommandant
• She escaped Germany and worked briefly as a model for the Balenciaga fashion house in Madrid in the 1950s
• She has spent the past 40 years living and working in Washington DC, now retired she is battling cancer
• Although ashamed of what her father did, she remembers him as 'the nicest man in the world'
• She also questions the number of people he murdered: 'How can there be so many survivors if so many had been killed?'

Note the Balenciaga link, which could be interpreted as the clue being given during Myrtles burning at the stake. And she was German (Jessica Lange is practicing her German accent).

Are we going to get American Horror Story: Fashion Haus this year? Or American Horror Story: Couture?

They could easily wrap some supernatural kind of stuff into the story and it's got that camp factor to be cheesy and over the top like previous seasons. Although I can't see them making Lange play yet another Cancer battler. Nor adapting the life of someone who is still alive.

Balenciaga also worked on ballet dresses - maybe a kind of Black Swan-esque murder mystery set within a dancing school?

 

[Matt_]

Maybe it will be Myrtle's actress playing the cancer battler? Lange just doing a supporting roll as one of her friends from germany?

The whole setting sounds very interesting though

 

[Rizific]

definitely didnt enojoy this season as much as 1-2. kind of felt like i was just watching it just for the sake of finishing the season. the show stopped being interesting pretty early on for me.

 

[Liferebooted]

I actually enjoyed the entire season until the finale. It was very boring and predictable. =\

 

[Lord_Byron28]

I honestly think that this might be Season 4.

Someone brought this to my attention on Twitter and it just seems like such a perfect fit for American Horror Story that it could work.



Note the Balenciaga link, which could be interpreted as the clue being given during Myrtles burning at the stake. And she was German (Jessica Lange is practicing her German accent).

Are we going to get American Horror Story: Fashion Haus this year? Or American Horror Story: Couture?

They could easily wrap some supernatural kind of stuff into the story and it's got that camp factor to be cheesy and over the top like previous seasons. Although I can't see them making Lange play yet another Cancer battler. Nor adapting the life of someone who is still alive.

Balenciaga also worked on ballet dresses - maybe a kind of Black Swan-esque murder mystery set within a dancing school?

But haven't they confirmed the season would be set in the 1950's and I don't see anything really horror related to the theme on top of the fact that she wouldnt be in America during the 1950's kinda defeating the point of American Horror Story.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

I honestly think that this might be Season 4.

Someone brought this to my attention on Twitter and it just seems like such a perfect fit for American Horror Story that it could work.



Note the Balenciaga link, which could be interpreted as the clue being given during Myrtles burning at the stake. And she was German (Jessica Lange is practicing her German accent).

Are we going to get American Horror Story: Fashion Haus this year? Or American Horror Story: Couture?

They could easily wrap some supernatural kind of stuff into the story and it's got that camp factor to be cheesy and over the top like previous seasons. Although I can't see them making Lange play yet another Cancer battler. Nor adapting the life of someone who is still alive.

Balenciaga also worked on ballet dresses - maybe a kind of Black Swan-esque murder mystery set within a dancing school?

I think you just called out the new season.

 

[Nemesis_]

But haven't they confirmed the season would be set in the 1950's and I don't see anything really horror related to the theme on top of the fact that she wouldnt be in America during the 1950's kinda defeating the point of American Horror Story.

True but they might take liberties with the story. Much like they did with the true stories of Marie Laveau and Delphine Lalaurie.

 

[BertramCooper]

I've seriously been listening to Fleetwood Mac nonstop over the past 24 hours.

 

[Holmes]

I've seriously been listening to Fleetwood Mac nonstop over the past 24 hours.

Good man.

 

[Not a Jellyfish]

This season needed more Voodoo. That is all.

 

[BertramCooper]

Good man.

I could listen to "Silver Springs" on a loop forever.

 

[Revolver]

I'm glad this season is over. It started out promising but I lost interest midway through. I still liked it more than Murder House though.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Disappointed to hear the finale isn't great, perhaps not that surprising though. The show seemed to lose all its momentum with the Axe-Man episode. Not sure what they were thinking with that stark change of pace, destroyed the entire season...

 

[Nemesis_]

Ratings are in!

and in chart form

Coven really was miles ahead of the first two seasons in terms of ratings, which I find crazy. I didn't realise the series enjoyed such a growth in viewership this season - and I know it sounds terrible but I didn't expect it either with such a female centric cast.

I'm happy it rated well though. That's really all that matters in this industry >_>

 

[SilentxS3ud]

I hoped that Madison would be the supreme because I hated how everyone was all good and nice and she was the bitch that wanted it all, just like Fiona. But I think i'm alone in this.

Also, what's up with Kyle's rule this season? for such an important actor from seasons 1 and 2, you'd think he would be more relevant. He's the butler now? WTF?

 

[Nemesis_]

I hoped that Madison would be the supreme because I hated how everyone was all good and nice and she was the bitch that wanted it all, just like Fiona. But I think i'm alone in this.

Also, what's up with Kyle's rule this season? for such an important actor from seasons 1 and 2, you'd think he would be more relevant. He's the butler now? WTF?

I don't think that you're wrong with Madison, I thought she would be in the end since Fiona was so similar to her. But then there's also the fact that Fiona was considered to be an outlier in the line of the supremacy so I thought it wouldn't happen again.

Given the user poll I posted back, most people seemed to have guessed who would come out on top.

 

[pants]

definitely didnt enojoy this season as much as 1-2. kind of felt like i was just watching it just for the sake of finishing the season. the show stopped being interesting pretty early on for me.

.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

My God,what a terrible finale. I just don't know where to begin, after all the hype surrounding Misty, she goes out like that? Jesus, that was such an underwhelming and random way for her to go out.

I don't even where to begin with regards to Cordy being the Supreme. It makes sense, bloodline, etc, but it was such a safe choice. Should have gone with Madison being the supreme...now that would have made for an interesting end.

Sucks that Zoe was still alive at the end and for a moment, I even entertained the idea of Madison jumping into her body as she was killed by FrankenKyle, but alas...and speaking of Zoe, what the hell was the point of her killer vagina power again?

I don't even know what to say about Myrtle being burned again. Such a stupid scene....

Overall, this season started out great but fell off a cliff after the Axe man episode. I'd rate it above Murder House, but below Asylum. I just hope that they manage to retain some level of momentum next season, it's annoying how these start out so strong but then almost always lose steam by the mid way point.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Nothing better sums up the writers' complete misunderstanding of drama, character and narrative propulsion than the inclusion of a character that does nothing of note and is then left to unceremoniously spend all of eternity being tortured in hell.

 

[Bladenic]

Nothing better sums up the writers' complete misunderstanding of drama, character and narrative propulsion than the inclusion of a character that does nothing of note and is then left to unceremoniously spend all of eternity being tortured in hell.

Well, Misty did bring back Madison and Myrtle. Uh, and Joan I guess but that was worthless.

 

[dan2026]

I think I want my time back.

This season was barely comprehensible nonsense, with a plot that went absolutely fucking nowhere.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

The Axe Man really sent this season spiraling.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

the vagina-death thing was just... nothing? I guess?

 

[BertramCooper]

Ratings are in!

and in chart form

Coven really was miles ahead of the first two seasons in terms of ratings, which I find crazy. I didn't realise the series enjoyed such a growth in viewership this season - and I know it sounds terrible but I didn't expect it either with such a female centric cast.

This is really disturbing.

 

[Outdoor Miner]

the vagina-death thing was just... nothing? I guess?

It was supposed to further signal that Kyle was her "soulmate", since his being already dead made him immune to the nuclearvag.

 

[Nemesis_]

Reflecting on the ratings a little bit more, I'm surprised to find Asylum actually dipped below Murder House for most of its run. A result of its nature perhaps? It was definitely the darkest and most fucked up. I hope that doesn't discourage the team from revisiting that kind of tone / atmosphere in the future.

 

[BertramCooper]

Reflecting on the ratings a little bit more, I'm surprised to find Asylum actually dipped below Murder House for most of its run. A result of its nature perhaps? It was definitely the darkest and most fucked up. I hope that doesn't discourage the team from revisiting that kind of tone / atmosphere in the future.

You're correct that Asylum was significantly darker than Murder House, so I'd say that it was perhaps a combination of that and viewers being confused by the anthology format - at least initially.

 

[kirblar]

This is really disturbing.

DVD catch-up effect.

 

[Yado]

Ratings are in!

and in chart form

Coven really was miles ahead of the first two seasons in terms of ratings, which I find crazy. I didn't realise the series enjoyed such a growth in viewership this season - and I know it sounds terrible but I didn't expect it either with such a female centric cast.

I'm happy it rated well though. That's really all that matters in this industry >_>

Despite the blunders, it's been the most entertaining season thus far. I can't imagine rewatching any of the other two.

 

[StopMakingSense]

DVD catch-up effect.

Yeah, I'm sure it gained a lot if viewers from Netflix, too. It's how I got into it. Me and my wife mainlined Murder House and Asylum in like a week.

 

[Hilbert]

How come that Spalding wasnt sent to hell ?

I had the strange impression that only women go to hell. Spalding stays a ghost, axeman is a ghost, then goes to heaven? And he was horrible. And hell was controlled by a male deity, "Papa". Just weird.

 

[3phemeral]

When witches don't fight, we [...]

1) choke to death
2) drown
3) get drugged and chopped into bits

 

[BertramCooper]

I love how Misty conveniently and inexplicably disintegrated, eliminating any possibility of her being resurrected.

 

[spuckthew]

I haven't read any spoilers, but seeing peoples' response to the finale of Coven is a little off-putting. I have Murder House and Asylum on Blu-ray and, although the former was so-so and pretty decent in places, I really enjoyed Asylum...I just fell in love with it. Obviously I'll watch it at some point, but how does Coven actually rate against Asylum (or even Murder House)? I just don't want to go into it assuming it will be better but then come away from it with my expectations thoroughly curbed.

 

[kirblar]

I haven't read any spoilers, but seeing peoples' response to the finale of Coven is a little off-putting. I have Murder House and Asylum on Blu-ray and, although the former was so-so and pretty decent in places, I really enjoyed Asylum...I just fell in love with it. Obviously I'll watch it at some point, but how does Coven actually rate against Asylum (or even Murder House)? I just don't want to go into it assuming it will be better but then come away from it with my expectations thoroughly curbed.

Lower your expectations to "random crap happens" and you'll be fine.