BlackTron
Member
You are technically correct. Nothing is inherently good or bad. Even taking a shit in front of everyone is good for dung beetles. We should be thinking of the nuanced views and potential to have our eyes opened.
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AndyPants Gaming: The Pussification of Videogames
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
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You are technically correct. Nothing is inherently good or bad. Even taking a shit in front of everyone is good for dung beetles. We should be thinking of the nuanced views and potential to have our eyes opened.
Turns out I was correct on this one too.
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Isn't this the AndyXbox guy grifting to something else since the Xbox fandom is spiraling to a dead end?
If they're not the same person, correct me, but from what I can tell they're the same guy under two different names and his Xbox fanboyism was arguably the worst I've seen online.
If they're not the same person, correct me, but from what I can tell they're the same guy under two different names and his Xbox fanboyism was arguably the worst I've seen online.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Look at the picture you posted. This stuff is maybe 5-8 years old max. All the growth since then has been in mobile. PC and console gaming is flat after the pandemic bump.'Hate money?' Revenue only got up in last 20 years with the help of the wider appeal.
I prefer my 'more grounded' character writing in games too, don't get me wrong. But the 'pandering to a wider audience' is capitalism 101 and only seems to work in their favor, so they'll definitely continue with that.
Edit: ah gotya, this Andypants Gaming guy is another one of those boring culture war retards, copy-pasting 'feelz' twitter talking points like some gpt bot
Kings Field
Member
“Phil and his group of homos”
You can say that again.
You can say that again.
it's from december last year. Also, true, It flattened out after Pandemic. People keep playing older games instead of buying new stuff (one of the unforseen problems 'Live service' created actually). And console growth has stagnated as younger audiences don't care as much like millennials.
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diffusionx
Gold Member
Why don’t they care if the devs are supposedly bending over backwards to pander to them? Isn’t this capitalism 101? Why is it not working in their favor as you claim?
It has worked for years and still works for some films or games. Not all game flops can be attributed to pandering. For example, Concord is probably a case of people being tired of the MCU aesthetics and quippy dialogue, or just hero shooter fatigue. Keep in mind that Concord has been in dev for 8 years. (that's also one of the problems in modern game dev: flexibility)
I've been tired of it ever since the MCU became a thing, hahaha. I didn't (and still don't) mind it being popular; it's just a phase, and most people are finally getting tired of it as well. I just chose not to watch or play that stuff. And there are still plenty of other games that fill that gap. Can I recommend Hunt: Showdown?
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Including diversity into games and appealing to a broader audience just makes sense both financially and culturally. My daughter is 8 and enjoys some games. When I show her a new one, you know what her first question is every single time? “Can I play as a girl character?” If not, she wants to know why and the game loses a lot of appeal to her. That’s why it matters to include more options.
With that said, what annoys me is the intolerance of any game that doesn’t toe the line. Great example is Ready or Not, a game that is massively popular, appeals to the core gamers of the past, but commits the unforgivable sin of portraying the police as the heroes unapologetically. So it gets diminished in the media, or when they do write a story about it, regardless of the topic there must a qualifier letting you know the game is “problematic.”
With that said, what annoys me is the intolerance of any game that doesn’t toe the line. Great example is Ready or Not, a game that is massively popular, appeals to the core gamers of the past, but commits the unforgivable sin of portraying the police as the heroes unapologetically. So it gets diminished in the media, or when they do write a story about it, regardless of the topic there must a qualifier letting you know the game is “problematic.”
diffusionx
Gold Member
Posts like this are the first cope, coming up with 80000 reasons why thingX failed that don't have to do with the SJW pandering in the games. Like, did you know that Rings of Power season 2 starts today? Does anyone care? Does the fact that the first season was a girlboss disaster have anything to do with that? Of course it does.
There are a lot of reasons why Concord failed, sure. One of them is the pronouns which made the game look idiotic when a robot had assigned pronouns. It's just a fact. It was in the initial video. It set the tone.
And then everyone clapped.
Nah, nothing to do with cope. Most people don’t care about the whole pandering thing (haven’t heard "SJW" in a while, though—is that still a thing?). It's just a subsection online that’s vehemently focused on this as some kind of societal degeneration, while it’s actually just a logical next step with some obvious growing pains that get tackled one step after another. This DEI complaining will all die down in a year or two from now, until the next scapegoat emerges for people to angrily rally behind.
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ResilientBanana
Member
Doom hasn't been pussified, thankfully.
Do you think I would just make up such a simple story? Is it that crazy to think someone would want to play a character who looks like them?
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
What would make hte most sense to me is allowing game directors and designers to include or skip whatever they want, since it's their creative vision, without a bunch of suits coming to tell them "include this" or "include that" in the name of inclusion and equality.
YOU PC BRO?!
Member
You are completely in denial. I’m not certain if you noticed but ‘woke’ is the new commonly used phrase. You have heard of that right?
Sure, a subsection of gamers refused to buy Battlefield, Saints Row, Borderlands, Alan Wake, Wolfenstein, Mortal Kombat? All of these franchises have fallen on the sword of progressivism. How many examples do you need before you acknowledge the truth. That not only does the concept of the ‘modern audience’ not exist, but that woke pandering is extremely detrimental to a games success.
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Ulysses 31
Member
RagnarokIV
Battlebus imprisoning me \m/ >.< \m/
Alright chud, loving the new cat photo.
NickFire
Member
I tend to agree with you. At the same time this goes both ways and all of society should be intellectually honest about that. The existing audiences shouldn't be treated with contempt when they reject things that don't appeal to them any longer, and have the same right to express their opinions as anyone else.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Companies are already rolling back this stuff across industries. They're starting to realize it doesn't actually help them, and the McKinsey studies that they based their DEI actions on were wrong and backwards. So, if the complaining stops, it will be because companies stop doing it.
In summary, you claimed that it's smart for these companies and grows the market. In the time they've been pushing it, the market hasn't grown, something you acknowledge. All the growth has gone elsewhere. Then you claim well the market has not grown for other reasons. So, you just seem like a dishonest person arguing in bad faith.
So does the game gain more sales from girls than it loses from boys, if the primary question is does the MC look like them? That's the question that these companies need to ask if it really was strictly, truly, only about the numbers. But it's obviously not only about the numbers.
A basic axiom of any business is that it is much more difficult to gain a new customer than to keep an existing one. Growing your audience should not come at the cost of pushing away the audience you have. This works both ways too. Sims has always been popular with women. Women tend to be more "woke" and on board with new social trends. Over time it's become more of a "woke" game, which makes sense. But what if EA said, "nah we aren't putting in pronouns and homosexual relationships because we want to grow The Sims with chuds." People would rightfully say, "lmao that is INSANE", but it's pretty much what companies are doing in the other direction.
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CuckooBananaNuts
Banned
I was responding to his comment about the drop in testosterone in males and how society as a whole has contributed to it. Gaming is not a big contributing factor to this phenomenon. The woke mind virus that has infested every institution, especially education, social media, big tech, the military, DEI hiring processes, the new dating culture, dating apps, and about a million other things that have told men to stop being men is to blame. It’s everything as a whole together that is causing a new generation of weak, low testosterone, effeminate, mentally castrated men that hate themselves because they’re told they can’t BE themselves.
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I'm getting the feeling you might be seeking out some kind of "anti-woke derangement syndrome," haha.
Personally, I'm not concerned with whether something is considered woke or not; most people aren't. What matters to me is whether a game is good, worth my time, and easily available. For instance, Alan Wake has heavy system requirements and a somewhat dated game structure, plus it’s single-player only. The Wolfenstein game sold really well, so I’m not sure what you’re referring to there (edit: Oh, you mean the twins thing? Yeah, that was just a bad game, not because it was woke—what?). The other games you mentioned aren’t of interest to me, and it has nothing to do with them being woke or whatever, haha. Saints Row was always corny.
This reminds me: I hated when the whole “Get your politics out of my games” nonsense started a few years ago. Games that have something interesting to say—about poverty, family dramas, disability injustices, etc.—are really rare. But instead, we often get escapist shoot-'em-up fantasies with nothing meaningful to share, aiming to please everyone but ultimately speaking to no one. It's because of the double-digit IQ men-children online obsessing over "woke" issues that publishers and developers are often hesitant to push interesting boundaries.
Remember GTA IV (2008) being about immigrant struggle in the US? Well, can't have that anymore.
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{insert code here}
Member
Context. The growth is basically all PC/Mobile. Console revenue has been more or less flat for 20 years. You can dig a little deeper and find with the console revenue, a good chunk of it goes to Madden, COD, FIFA, Fortnite, GTA. In other words the revenue (and revenue growth) is concentrated into the hands of a very few and it creates this false perception that the entire industry is healthy when its not.'Hate money?' Revenue only got up in last 20 years with the help of the wider appeal.
I prefer my 'more grounded' character writing in games too, don't get me wrong. But the 'pandering to a wider audience' is capitalism 101 and only seems to work in their favor, so they'll definitely continue with that.
Edit: ah gotya, this Andypants Gaming guy is another one of those boring culture war retards, copy-pasting 'feelz' twitter talking points like some gpt bot
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
Tales of Kenzera: Zau is getting shit from complete fucking morons too.
Dr.Morris79
Member
Considering most people drive the markets and If that were true what you're stating, companies that push it to the forefront or hide it in disingenuous ways would be seeing a much bigger return on profits.
This is far from the case.
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YOU PC BRO?!
Member
You are deranged. I don’t even know where to start. It’s clear that you dismiss or ignore anything that doesn’t line up with the false reality you have created. I got it right the first time, you are indeed the very definition of an ideologue. I’m gonna sit back now and see where this goes… it’s not often I get to witness such zealotry and I’m genuinely curious.
Impressive you used so many words to say so little. My hope is you're actually 17 and you'll probably grow out of this.
If not... ooof
YOU PC BRO?!
Member
If you are older than 17 then we really are in trouble…
DoubleClutch
Member
I have to disagree with you. There is a stark difference between GTAIV being an immigrant story and Concord for example. One is woke, one is not.
MostlyPeaceful
Banned
Just watched the entire video
Kinda refreshing to see someone in 2024 just call it how it is and not beat around the bush or mince words.
The industry is struggling right now because it has completely turned its back on the demographic that built it. Gaming has objectively become worse in the last 5 years.
Kinda refreshing to see someone in 2024 just call it how it is and not beat around the bush or mince words.
The industry is struggling right now because it has completely turned its back on the demographic that built it. Gaming has objectively become worse in the last 5 years.
DoubleClutch
Member
That’s because inclusion for the sake of inclusion is a stupid concept. You know what would be inclusive? Allowing different control schemes and mapping options so people with disabilities could play games.
As the saying goes, when you try to please everybody you please nobody. Some concepts you can’t make so they appeal to everybody, and if you try it’ll just be trash.
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analog_future
Resident Crybaby
I will never take someone that says "pussification" in earnest seriously.
DoubleClutch
Member
You don’t have to take everything personally.
DAHGAMING
Member
Spot on, I wont be happy with the new Gears unless theres at least 1 scene where Marcus and hes alpha bros are bustting off rounds down range, giant fuck off arms glistening with sweat, all while there hungs cocks are getting sucked and fucked by some big tit slags that they just discard of once they blow there load and the firefight has been won.
ResilientBanana
Member
Touché. But he still, magically, rips and tears until it is fabulous.
Absolutely, but no one here is comparing the two. To repeat my point, I don't see Concord doing bad only because it's woke.
They're probably a lot of other factors playing against it as well. (People being MCU fatigued, the corny writing, not being F2P etc)
DoubleClutch
Member
Exactly my point, the game sucks because evidently its goal was DEI instead of making a purely good game that’s fun to play. That’s the definition of woke.
NickFire
Member
CuckooBananaNuts
Banned
This game has pronouns of each character at the character selection screen. Woke was the only thing on their mind when they created this game.
Ah, then Marvel Rivals is probably going to to well too, i'm guessing.
Edit: I don't follow or care about comic/marvel stuff, so don't know. But it'll be a good litmus test to see if Hero shooter fatigue is a thing, or Marvel still being a huge brand.
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Games of Today
Member
I watch this guy sometimes, he's not wrong but he can be a little extreme at times. However, since someone locked that America's Army thread, I want to comment about a game that was not gay by any means.
The last Americas Army game was sick as shit and so much fun to play. You could choke out people and ziptie their hands to eliminate them from the round. There was also a mode where you escorted a barefoot Israeli HVT through the map to extraction. Both teams played as the U.S Army but both saw the enemy as Russians with AK's which was such an awesome design idea.
The spoons of grenades would also fly off when thrown, a detail most games miss.
If you teamkilled you were disconnected from the server and sent to Leavenworth prison in a fully 3D modeled jail cell that you could walk around in.
You got sick ass loading screen videos of real Army paratroopers, soldiers breaking down M240b machine guns, it was great.
It also had full blown indoor and outdoor firing ranges.
All this and it was completely free. I really need a new one.
The last Americas Army game was sick as shit and so much fun to play. You could choke out people and ziptie their hands to eliminate them from the round. There was also a mode where you escorted a barefoot Israeli HVT through the map to extraction. Both teams played as the U.S Army but both saw the enemy as Russians with AK's which was such an awesome design idea.
The spoons of grenades would also fly off when thrown, a detail most games miss.
If you teamkilled you were disconnected from the server and sent to Leavenworth prison in a fully 3D modeled jail cell that you could walk around in.
You got sick ass loading screen videos of real Army paratroopers, soldiers breaking down M240b machine guns, it was great.
It also had full blown indoor and outdoor firing ranges.
All this and it was completely free. I really need a new one.
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CuckooBananaNuts
Banned
It's not MCU fatigue. It's bad movies, TV shows, and games fatigue. Deadpool & Wolverine is an outlier because it's something people actually wanted to go see in a slew of terrible MCU garbage that has come out in the last several years. Hollywood keeps saying nobody wants to go to the cinema anymore as an excuse for their terrible content, but then movies like DP&W come out and shoot that theory in the foot.
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Heimdall_Xtreme
Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
NickFire
Member
Depends on final product how well it sells. Even Marvel IP based entertainment still needs to be good.
Not sure if you’ve worked on a big collaborative production, but in the development teams I’ve been a part of, there was never a set goal to make something purely DEI-focused. There were definitely discussions about inclusion, but the primary objective was always to create a fun product that people would like and buy.
Lunnarre
Neo Member
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CuckooBananaNuts
Banned
The problem with Concord isn't the inclusion itself ... it's how forced and in-your-face it feels. When a game prioritizes checking diversity boxes over crafting a compelling story, engaging characters, or solid gameplay, it's blatantly obvious. No one cares if something has diverse content when it's organically woven into the narrative. But when it feels like the game is screaming, 'Look at how inclusive we are!' instead of focusing on being a great game first, it alienates players. Most players do not fit into this minority, and most players are the ones that are going to drive the profit. So when you alienate the majority of your potential customers, your profit is going to suffer. Inclusion should enhance a game, not overshadow everything else. And that's exactly what happened with Concord.
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