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[Doom85]

Joel, a fully grown gruff-and-tough man killing hundreds of bad guys and zombies to escort his daughter figure across the country - suspension of disbelief

Ellie, a 110-pound teenage lesbian girl killing hundreds of bad guys and zombies to avenge the death of Joel - ridiculous and stupid

You don’t decide a universal level of suspension of disbelief. If your suspension of disbelief “conveniently“ targets women (and apparently being a lesbian also negatively affects their combat capabilities according to you) while believing one man can kill hundreds of people and monsters on his own like that’s a normal occurrence, you do you, but this is not a universal rule or something.

Also, I didn’t realize being 110 pounds affected how much the bullets hurt when they fly out of the 110 pound woman’s gun, or that getting stabbed by a 110 pound woman doesn’t really hurt. You’ve truly enlightened me with this wisdom. Can’t believe they put such unrealistic nonsense in a story where at the end of Part 1, one man solo’d dozens of heavily armed enemies all devoted solely into taking him down. Well done.

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

The world is becoming more diverse, as are the pool of people making entertainment (ya know bc they srent being pushed/kept out as much like they were for the majority of history by a select few). This has effected everyone making films, games books etc not just minority individuals.

Its only natural that the entertainment would reflect that shift. And while there's some growing pains, it's been more than worth it to see not every game lead and movie lead.

Change is an inevitable constant of the universe. Entertainment and video games are no exception. Accept it, adapt, or be left behind yelling at clouds. It’s going to happen regardless. The new generation is already well past that 3% btw. Is what it is.

Yet by far the largest demographic in gaming across most genres associated with AAA is straight men. Even properties like that Disney movie ‘The Marvels’ that was made for women was still consumed by a majority male audience (~55%). It isn’t ‘growing pains’, the market you are talking about doesn’t actually buy the games. If it did then games like Forspoken, Concord and Dustborn wouldn’t have failed.

 

[CuckooBananaNuts]

I thing we can end this conversation now.

Yes, we certainly can.

 

[DoubleClutch]

I don’t like seeing people who just joined being banned because they’re standing on their positions. They’re not insulting anyone.

I semi-agree, but these guys were pushing the line, clearly provoking others and arguing in bad faith. All dissent and difference in opinions should be welcomed, but their expressions were them ridiculing and reducing others’ positions in an attempt to get a negative reaction.

 

[DoubleClutch]

Yet by far the largest demographic in gaming across most genres associated with AAA is straight men. Even properties like that Disney movie ‘The Marvels’ that was made for women was still consumed by a majority male audience (~55%). It isn’t ‘growing pains’, the market you are talking about doesn’t actually buy the games. If it did then games like Forspoken, Concord and Dustborn wouldn’t have failed.

This 100%. The last point in particular.

 

[Toons]

The ~30% is an estimate of gen Z in 2024 who identify as non-straight.

If you truly believe that that figure has been the same since the beginning of humankind, but the truth has only come to light now because “people are more accepting”

The truth came to light a while ago bud.

You can find records of homosexual practice in almost every corner of history. Was real big in several pagan cultures, forms of worship, even wartime unity. Again, i didnt bring up a percentage, nor do I intend to, because thats not the point.

…I don’t know what else to say man. I think I’ll leave it there.

Im not sure what else to say either becuse you dont seem to have a throughline for your argument. You seem to be stopping short of outright saying "the video games are turning the kids gay" like the other guy, but what else am I to conclude here based on your comments? I've been exposed to gay characters in my media all my life, even as a kid when they had to be more subtle about it it was in cartoons and stuff. And I turned striaght as a stripper pole, same as everyone I know who watched the same stuff.

 

[nkarafo]

He's not a black Spider-Man. He's a different Spider-Man. Peter Parker exists in the same universe. They didn't race swap Peter Parker. There are certainly woke elements in the movies (I haven't read the comics), but him being black isn't one of them. Miles Morales is also a well written and relatable character.

The intent was a black Spiderman though. They wanted Spiderman but black.

 

[CuckooBananaNuts]

Im not sure what else to say either recuse you dont seem to have a throughline for your argument. You seem to be stopping short of outright saying "the video games are turning the kids gay" like the other guy, but what else am I to conclude here based on your comments? I've been exposed to gay characters in my media all my life, even as a kid when they had to be more subtle about it it was in cartoons and stuff. And I turned striaght as a stripper pole, same as everyone I know who watched the same stuff.

It’s very disappointing to see you reduce my argument to something as absurd as "video games are turning kids gay." This isn’t about video games or any single influence. It’s about a broader, systemic issue. You’ve completely and utterly ignored the entire context of my argument, which addresses how children are being exposed to and influenced by ideologies through the education system, media, and other societal channels.

Your response is a classic example of a straw man argument. You can't attack or even debate anything I said directly because you're not capable. You’re diverting attention away from the real issue by misrepresenting what I said. This tactic doesn’t engage with any of the actual points I made or the complexities of the situation. Instead, it oversimplifies and distorts the discussion. The situation is very real, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.

The concern is about the way young kids' minds are being targeted and shaped by various societal forces, not about attributing this phenomenon to trivial factors like video games. If you want to have a meaningful discussion, address the actual points raised rather than deflecting with unrelated distractions. Don't reference me as "the other guy" while continuing to deflect and go off on inconsequential tangents.

 

[Toons]

Yet by far the largest demographic in gaming across most genres associated with AAA is straight men. Even properties like that Disney movie ‘The Marvels’ that was made for women was still consumed by a majority male audience (~55%). It isn’t ‘growing pains’, the market you are talking about doesn’t actually buy the games. If it did then games like Forspoken, Concord and Dustborn wouldn’t have failed.

Striaght men don't only play games with striaght male leads, and non striaght men don't only play games without straight men.

I'd imagine the majority of folks who played TLOU2 as a young white lesbian were actually striaght middle aged men. Not everyone needs to be included to enjoy the game and only people being included doesn't make turn me away. Also I'm quite certain concord and forsaken wouldn't exactly have sold gangbusters if they swapped out the main character on the cover for a straight white dude either but this just speculation.

 

[Toons]

No, I’ll give you an example:

Spawn = cool and not woke.

Black Spider-Man = woke, even though I kind of like Miles they only made him to go with the times

This here exactly encapsulates my point.

Miles Morales is a completely original character with a unique orders gallery, origin story, and supporting cast. Hes every bit as original as John Stewart or Terry McGinnis from batman beyond.

There is ZERO reason to consider him woke. he has more original character traits to him than Deadpool, who is a deatbsteke ripoff.

 

[DoubleClutch]

Striaght men don't only play games with striaght male leads, and non striaght men don't only play games without straight men.

I'd imagine the majority of folks who played TLOU2 as a young white lesbian were actually striaght middle aged men. Not everyone needs to be included to enjoy the game and only people being included doesn't make turn me away. Also I'm quite certain concord and forsaken wouldn't exactly have sold gangbusters if they swapped out the main character on the cover for a straight white dude either but this just speculation.

I can’t recall what gay content I’ve ever watched. It doesn’t appeal to me. Loved TLOU, one of the best games of all time… TLOU2 though… never played it and never will because of what they did to it.

 

[Toons]

It’s very disappointing to see you reduce my argument to something as absurd as "video games are turning kids gay." This isn’t about video games or any single influence. It’s about a broader, systemic issueYou’ve completely and utterly ignored the entire context of my argument, which addresses how children are being exposed to and influenced by ideologies through the education system, media, and other societal channels.

An education system telling them that they arent going to hell for being gay, that people different from then will exist the world, and that those people should get basic decency and respect?

Theres worse things to be hysteria mongering about. Way worse. Who these kids are f***ing, I couldn't care less. Again, no throughline, no actual end goal, just fear mongering. I
Its a non starter.

Your response is a classic example of a straw man argument. You can't attack or even debate anything I said directly because you're not capable. You’re diverting attention away from the real issue

You havent even made clear what the issue is. More kids are gay? Is that an issue to you? Its not that a big issue to me. Like I said, Idgaf what these kids are doing in their bedrooms with each other so long as they get sex ed.

The concern is about the way young kids' minds are being targeted and shaped by various societal forces,

You keep saying this diatribe ad nauseum but again with no throughline. What's your issue here? Where's your evidence backing any of this? What's your point? If it isn't about video games, why is it being brought up? Kids are being targeted for what? You're just tossing out conspiracy after conspiracy without any elaboration.

 

[DoubleClutch]

This here exactly encapsulates my point.

Miles Morales is a completely original character with a unique orders gallery, origin story, and supporting cast. Hes every bit as original as John Stewart or Terry McGinnis from batman beyond.

There is ZERO reason to consider him woke. he has more original character traits to him than Deadpool, who is a deatbsteke ripoff.

Absurdity. He’s basically Black Peter Parker. Science nerd, throws the same quips, has the same girlfriend, wrestles with his responsibility the same way… what planet are you from?

 

[Toons]

I can’t recall what gay content I’ve ever watched. It doesn’t appeal to me. Loved TLOU, one of the best games of all time… TLOU2 though… never played it and never will because of what they did to it.

Doesn't appeal to me either! But that doesn't mean anything sith a gay character in it immediately repulses me. I still have seen no shortage of media with gay characters lol. I play overwatch regularly, which has a bunch of gay characters, but I wouldn't call it gay content, ya know because I'm shooting people in the game, not f***ing. Wouldn't call TLOU2 gay content either. The character being gay is like, the 1000th most important thing about her in that game.

Anyways, I got work tomorrow, im off to bed, maybe see yall in 6 hours

 

[MostlyPeaceful]

You don’t decide a universal level of suspension of disbelief.

You’re right. *I* don’t decide it.

The suspension of disbelief is already established and broadly the same amongst the collective conscience of people who consume the media.

That’s why some things seem plausible enough to where you can “suspend disbelief” - like a gruff, tough, badass grown man taking out dozens of baddies with his bare hands and weapons in an effort to keep a little girl safe

vs said little girl doing the exact same thing in the exact same way as the man, just a few years later.

Neither of those things are likely to happen in the real world if a zombie apocalypse broke out. But only one of those things is actually plausible for the majority of people to “suspend their disbelief for” within the context of a fictional, yet grounded video game story.

Gunslinger Arthur Morgan in Red Dead Redemption 2 killing hundreds of Pinkerton agents and gang members as he navigates the struggles of his way of life going extinct in the waning years of the Old American West - something that no real man could ever actually do or ever actually did, but still a plausible concept in the brain of the player

A Somalian Refugee woman in Red Dead Redemption 2 killing hundreds of Pinkerton agents and gang members as she navigates the struggles of her way of life going extinct in the waning years of the Old American West - uhhhh wtf?

 

[CuckooBananaNuts]

An education system telling them that they arent going to hell for being gay, that people different from then will exist the world, and that those people should get basic decency and respect?

Theres worse things to be hysteria mongering about. Way worse. Who these kids are f***ing, I couldn't care less. Again, no throughline, no actual end goal, just fear mongering. I
Its a non starter.



You havent even made clear what the issue is. More kids are gay? Is that an issue to you? Its not that a big issue to me. Like I said, Idgaf what these kids are doing in their bedrooms with each other so long as they get sex ed.



You keep saying this diatribe ad nauseum but again with no throughline. What's your issue here? Where's your evidence backing any of this? What's your point? If it isn't about video games, why is it being brought up? Kids are being targeted for what? You're just tossing out conspiracy after conspiracy without any elaboration.

Again, your response is another diversion and doesn't address the core issue at hand. It’s not about whether kids are going to hell or getting basic decency. This has absolutely nothing to do with religion. It’s about how children are being subjected to intense ideological influences that are pushing them to question and explore complex concepts of identity before they are emotionally or mentally prepared.

You’re again (and again ... and again) completely missing the point by framing this as a matter of whether more kids being gay is an issue or not. This isn't about demonizing or stigmatizing any identity. It’s about preserving childhood innocence and ensuring that children aren’t subjected to aggressive indoctrination from a young age.

You claim there's no "throughline" or "evidence," but you're deliberately ignoring the evidence of increased exposure and indoctrination in education and media. The real issue is not about what kids are doing in their bedrooms but about the premature and sometimes coercive shaping of their identities by external forces.

Stop sidestepping and address the real concern, which is the manipulation of impressionable minds under the guise of progress. If you want to have a substantive discussion, engage with the actual issue rather than deflecting with straw man arguments and irrelevant points.

 

[DoubleClutch]

Doesn't appeal to me either! But that doesn't mean anything sith a gay character in it immediately repulses me. I still have seen no shortage of media with gay characters lol. I play overwatch regularly, which has a bunch of gay characters, but I wouldn't call it gay content, ya know because I'm shooting people in the game, not f***ing. Wouldn't call TLOU2 gay content either. The character being gay is like, the 1000th most important thing about her in that game.

Anyways, I got work tomorrow, im off to bed, maybe see yall in 6 hours

Yet it’s critical a point be made that those characters are gay when their being gay has nothing to do with the game… why is that?

 

[Toons]

A state of awareness only achieved by those dumb enough to find injustice in everything except their own behavior.

Its amazing how this describes the yotuber in the OP perfectly.

 

[CuckooBananaNuts]

Its amazing how this describes the yotuber in the OP perfectly.

It's amazing how you're incapable of having an actual discussion with lucid points that don't involve deflection or logical fallacies.

 

[Toons]

Again, your response is another diversion and doesn't address the core issue at hand. It’s not about whether kids are going to hell or getting basic decency. This has absolutely nothing to do with religion. It’s about how children are being subjected to intense ideological influences that are pushing them to question and explore complex concepts of identity before they are emotionally or mentally prepared.

You’re again (and again ... and again) completely missing the point by framing this as a matter of whether more kids being gay is an issue or not. This isn't about demonizing or stigmatizing any identity. It’s about preserving childhood innocence

Innocence from what bud. Last chance im giving you, im not going in circles. Gimme specifics, or give me a source with real research backing up anything you're saying, or this is all nothing more ramblings of someone with way too much time on their hands thinking about things that don't concern him.

I do not care for your platitudes or your fear mongering, I do not care for the pearl clutching for these are signs of a lack of an argument not the presence of one. Give me facts, not your feelings on the matter. Specifics. And by source, I dont mean some polituber ranting. I mean a scientific, research based source.

 

[DoubleClutch]

You don’t decide a universal level of suspension of disbelief. If your suspension of disbelief “conveniently“ targets women (and apparently being a lesbian also negatively affects their combat capabilities according to you) while believing one man can kill hundreds of people and monsters on his own like that’s a normal occurrence, you do you, but this is not a universal rule or something.

Also, I didn’t realize being 110 pounds affected how much the bullets hurt when they fly out of the 110 pound woman’s gun, or that getting stabbed by a 110 pound woman doesn’t really hurt. You’ve truly enlightened me with this wisdom. Can’t believe they put such unrealistic nonsense in a story where at the end of Part 1, one man solo’d dozens of heavily armed enemies all devoted solely into taking him down. Well done.

Totally, because when I think of the most elite special military operators of the world, like the SAS, Spetsnaz, SEALs, KSK… I don’t think of men who radiate masculinity, I think of a slightly chubby 110 lbs 5’ 1” queer girl from California with two moms.

 

[nkarafo]

Miles Morales is a completely original character with a unique orders gallery, origin story, and supporting cast. Hes every bit as original as John Stewart or Terry McGinnis from batman beyond.

There is ZERO reason to consider him woke. he has more original character traits to him than Deadpool, who is a deatbsteke ripoff.

He is a black version of Spiderman. That's what they wanted, that was the pitch.

He may turned out to be a good character, which is rare considering the intentions behind said character. But it doesn't change the obvious fact that someone just wanted a black Spiderman. There's no originality here.

 

[CuckooBananaNuts]

Innocence from what bud. Last chance im giving you, im not going in circles. Gimme specifics, or give me a source with real research backing up anything you're saying, or this is all nothing more ramblings of someone with way too much time on their hands thinking about things that don't concern him.

I do not care for your platitudes or your fear mongering, I do not care for the pearl clutching for these are signs of a lack of an argument not the presence of one. Give me facts, not your feelings on the matter. Specifics. And by source, I dont mean some polituber ranting. I mean a scientific, research based source.

Your refusal to see the issue isn’t about a lack of evidence. It’s about willful ignorance. The evidence is all around you. Turn on the TV, scroll through social media, look at YouTube, TikTok, modern trends in youth culture, children's programming, the education system, overtly sexual books in children's libraries, California passing laws that say adult teachers in school don't need to notify parents about what they're teaching their kids, and a million other things and you’ll see the aggressive promotion of complex ideologies to kids. It’s not hard to find. Just open your eyes and pay attention. You can't sit there and feign ignorance.

If you’re going to dismiss this as “ramblings” without actually looking at what’s happening, then further discussion is pointless. I’m done wasting time with someone who’s more interested in playing semantics than facing the reality of the situation.

 

[DoubleClutch]

Innocence from what bud. Last chance im giving you, im not going in circles. Gimme specifics, or give me a source with real research backing up anything you're saying, or this is all nothing more ramblings of someone with way too much time on their hands thinking about things that don't concern him.

I do not care for your platitudes or your fear mongering, I do not care for the pearl clutching for these are signs of a lack of an argument not the presence of one. Give me facts, not your feelings on the matter. Specifics. And by source, I dont mean some polituber ranting. I mean a scientific, research based source.

New estimates show 300,000 youth ages 13-17 identify as transgender in the US

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu

“Transgender individuals are younger on average than the general U.S. population…”

This is not a trend you would be seeing if it was a matter of people afraid to come out. The proportion would be the same across all age groups.

Yet the younger the people are, the more they are likely to identify as trans. There’s your study, now what?

 

[MostlyPeaceful]

Some people really have their heads in the sand when it comes to what’s going on these days.

Either that or they’re being blatantly disingenuous in an attempt to gaslight others.

Shit is corny.

 

[CuckooBananaNuts]

New estimates show 300,000 youth ages 13-17 identify as transgender in the US

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu

“Transgender individuals are younger on average than the general U.S. population…”

This is not a trend you would be seeing if it was a matter of people afraid to come out. The proportion would be the same across all age groups.

Yet the younger the people are, the more they are likely to identify as trans. There’s your study, now what?

Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy.

 

[hinch7]

New estimates show 300,000 youth ages 13-17 identify as transgender in the US

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu

“Transgender individuals are younger on average than the general U.S. population…”

This is not a trend you would be seeing if it was a matter of people afraid to come out. The proportion would be the same across all age groups.

Yet the younger the people are, the more they are likely to identify as trans. There’s your study, now what?

Trans people don't even make up not even 1% of the population. These case studies are useless.

 

[DoubleClutch]

Trans people don't even make up not even 1% of the population. These case studies are useless.

Okay, here’s Gallup which is about as official as it gets…

LGBTQ+ Identification in U.S. Now at 7.6%

LGBTQ+ identification in the U.S. continues to inch up, with 7.6% of all U.S. adults, and more than one in five Gen Z adults, identifying this way.

news.gallup.com

“Overall, each younger generation is about twice as likely as the generation that preceded it to identify as LGBTQ+. More than one in five Gen Z adults, ranging in age from 18 to 26 in 2023, identify as LGBTQ+, as do nearly one in 10 millennials (aged 27 to 42). The percentage drops to less than 5% of Generation X, 2% of baby boomers and 1% of the Silent Generation.”

 

[hinch7]

Okay, here’s Gallup which is about as official as it gets…

LGBTQ+ Identification in U.S. Now at 7.6%

LGBTQ+ identification in the U.S. continues to inch up, with 7.6% of all U.S. adults, and more than one in five Gen Z adults, identifying this way.

news.gallup.com

“Overall, each younger generation is about twice as likely as the generation that preceded it to identify as LGBTQ+. More than one in five Gen Z adults, ranging in age from 18 to 26 in 2023, identify as LGBTQ+, as do nearly one in 10 millennials (aged 27 to 42). The percentage drops to less than 5% of Generation X, 2% of baby boomers and 1% of the Silent Generation.”

They're asking a very specific group of people a very specific question. Ask the same in a province in China and North Korea, what would their answer be? 0? 0.0000000000000001?

 

[DoubleClutch]

They're asking a very specific group of people a very specific question. Ask the same in a province in China and North Korea, what would their answer be? 0? 0.0000000000000001?

What’s your point?

 

[hinch7]

What’s your point?

The point is those case studies are completely useless. The people doing those questionares are massively conflating their conclusion based on a tiny statisitic based on their controlled survey. If you asked everyone in the US it would not come close to 7%. Its so dumb. Go back to Era.

 

[CuckooBananaNuts]

Trans people don't even make up not even 1% of the population. These case studies are useless.

There is no such thing as a “trans person.” What we're really talking about is people with gender dysphoria that are being exploited. Shoving these ideologies down kids' throats is purely and simply child abuse. It’s like I stated above ... Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy. It's usually the fault of insane parents, but now teachers are spreading this toxic garbage in their classrooms with kids as young as kindergartners. Kids are having these destructive ideas drilled into their heads.

And now we're calling the mutilation of underage bodies “gender-affirming care” to make it sound less horrifying. It's a sick joke. It’s an attempt to make something evil sound acceptable. It's illegal, abusive, and morally reprehensible. Only 10 years ago, if doctors performed surgeries like this on minors, they'd be thrown in prison. Now, it's being celebrated by people who have lost all touch with reality. The world is descending into madness.

The point is those case studies are completely useless. The people doing those questionares are massively conflating their conclusion based on a tiny statisitic based on their controlled survey. If you asked everyone in the US it would not come close to 7%. Its so dumb. Go back to Era.

I don't understand what point you're trying to make either. Era would say that 50% of the population is trans. I don't know what stance you're taking. You're making absolutely no sense. The point he's making is that there is an astronomical rise in "trans" people in countries like the US. There is also an astronomical rise in people identifying as gay. It's not happening in every country, just those pushing this ideology through every fact of government, education, social media, etc. The statistics should concern you.

 

[DoubleClutch]

The point is those case studies are completely useless. The people doing those questionares are massively conflating their conclusion based on a tiny statisitic based on their controlled survey. If you asked everyone in the US it would not come close to 7%. Its so dumb. Go back to Era.

Can you prove this in rebuttal? Sounds like you don’t like what you see and have nothing left but name-calling now.

 

[hinch7]

There is no such thing as a “trans person.” What we're really talking about is people with gender dysphoria that are being exploited. Shoving these ideologies down kids' throats is purely and simply child abuse. It’s like I stated above ... Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy. It's usually the fault of insane parents, but now teachers are spreading this toxic garbage in their classrooms with kids as young as kindergartners. Kids are having these destructive ideas drilled into their heads.

And now we're calling the mutilation of underage bodies “gender-affirming care” to make it sound less horrifying. It's a sick joke. It’s an attempt to make something evil sound acceptable. It's illegal, abusive, and morally reprehensible. Only 10 years ago, if doctors performed surgeries like this on minors, they'd be thrown in prison. Now, it's being celebrated by people who have lost all touch with reality. The world is descending



I don't understand what point you're trying to make either. Era would say that 50% of the population is trans. I don't know what stance you're taking. You're making absolutely no sense. The point he's making is that there is an astronomical rise in "trans" people in countries like the US. There is also an astronomical rise in people identifying as gay. It's not happening in every country, just those pushing this ideology through every fact of government, education, social media, etc. The statistics should concern you.

So trans. Transgender.

Sure, whatever you want to believe. I guess. Anyway not going to derail, enjoy your asylum.

 

[CuckooBananaNuts]

So trans. Transgender.

Sure, whatever you want to believe. I guess. Anyway not going to derail, enjoy your asylum.

So you have nothing to say. Got it. More deflection to avoid facing reality.

 

[MostlyPeaceful]

enjoy your asylum.

 

[AJBungah]

Haha I discovered this guy recently and subbed immediately. Guy just says it as it is and doesn't give a fuck.

Have to laugh when people are saying that Concord is bombing cos it is "just another hero shooter" when Deadlock even when in Alpha is doing just fine. Funny that isn't it. Actual good game that isn't woke AF doing well. Concord as a game is shit. It's woke as fuck. Nobody wants this shit. So it's bombed. Stop making excuses.

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

Striaght men don't only play games with striaght male leads, and non striaght men don't only play games without straight men.

I'd imagine the majority of folks who played TLOU2 as a young white lesbian were actually striaght middle aged men. Not everyone needs to be included to enjoy the game and only people being included doesn't make turn me away. Also I'm quite certain concord and forsaken wouldn't exactly have sold gangbusters if they swapped out the main character on the cover for a straight white dude either but this just speculation.

You have missed the point. It’s about appeal, diversity in a game isn’t necessarily unappealing. No one is saying that, only that the audience should be respected. If the audience consists of primarily straight men then it makes sense to cater to their tastes. That isn’t a controversial take.

Funny you should mention TLOU2. A franchise subverted in a similar manner to the Spider-Man franchise. A game series that was already well received and successful without any of the pandering that came later. In-fact, these games did well despite the shift in target audience. When straight middle aged men don’t show up for games like Concord and Forspoken then they fail. I’m suggesting that the very concept of a ‘modern audience‘ is a fabrication. A vehicle used to push current day ideological perspectives on unsuspecting fans.

 

[Little Chicken]

Gays working in creative industries?!!!!

They want a seat at the table too??!!!!!

Shock horror.

Alan Turing was gay, I'm going to refer to PC Gaming as a homosexual pursuit from now on.

 

[Unknown?]

And that exact inflation applies to revenues of companies too, so using that as metric is ridiculous. That was exactly my point.

Yup. It's also why measuring a movie's success is stupid in dollars. It should be in tickets sold!

 

[Toons]

New estimates show 300,000 youth ages 13-17 identify as transgender in the US

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu

“Transgender individuals are younger on average than the general U.S. population…”

This is not a trend you would be seeing if it was a matter of people afraid to come out. The proportion would be the same across all age groups.

This isnt evidence that entertainment media is influencing people to become trans? What media is even featuring a bunch of trans characters that a kid would ge watching? TLOU2 has a singular trans character but kids shouldn't be playing that anyway, literally couldn't even name a movie or TV show character who is trans in any major work that any kid would be exposed to..

You're not the guy making the original argument but you both are attempted to correlate the two things that don't really correlate.

Yet the younger the people are, the more they are likely to identify as trans. There’s your study, now what?

Now what is the question I've been asking YOU. Because my "now what" is nothing. Live and let live. Let em figure it out. These kids wanna be trans more often? Let em figure it out. Not my place, nor my concern to trying and stop them.

You keep trying to relate this to gaming and media so again, where's all these trans characters kids are seeing influencing them to do this?

 

[Toons]

Your refusal to see the issue isn’t about a lack of evidence. It’s about willful ignorance. The evidence is all around you

Yeah see. Were done here. You have nothing to back up anything. You aren't engaging in discussions, you're trying to preach the sky is falling and when someone asks you where you keep saying "just look up its so clear!!"

All I can tell you is this proclamatic is pointless and aimless, the change is going to happen until it doesn't. Thats the way of the world. I sure as he'll dont see a bunch of trans folk in media, I see more gay and lesbian characters but that was always going to happen as gradually we shed the status quo of homophobia.

Even these numbers the other guy have me are relatively tiny. TINY. Theres no giant swarm of trans kids popping up any how.

 

[Madserb2023]

My issue is not the lack of masculinity but the lack of quality. Now you could make a graph showing a correlation of the two but Nintendo games are still great and are not hyper masculine. However I do think there is a connection between women being less attractive etc but it's more to do with the change in demographics of the developers and the retiring of the talent that we had in the 90s and early 2000s. It's like the Black Death. Most of the great cathedrals were built before the 15th century because so many craftsmen died and the architecture that followed was less intricate. This is actually an historical phenomenon that's been studied. I think the same thing has happened to gaming. However if you look at Mario Wonder most of the people who made Mario World made Mario Wonder which is why Nintendo is so good. 90% of the people at Bioware who made Mass Effect aren't there anymore. I thinks it's as simple as that.

 

[Toons]

He is a black version of Spiderman. That's what they wanted, that was the pitch.

First off miles is mixed.

Second.. ok? Is this supposed to prove hes woke? Because... that really isn't helping your case.

John Stewart was designed to be a black man as green lantern from the get go. He was created for that explicit purpose. Does that make him woke or a dei character?

Blade was also specifically created with the intention to be black and you can fid interviews where his creator marv Wolfman says he pitched the character to dc who didn't want it, and he took it over to marvel because he wanted to have a diverse superhero. Does that make him woke?

He may turned out to be a good character, which is rare considering the intentions behind said character. But it doesn't change the obvious fact that someone just wanted a black Spiderman. There's no originality here.

Its not rare at all actually. You'll find most of the time when a black or minority m superhero was introduced for any reason before the 2000s, it was this. Because there was an active, societal trend they were pushing back against.

Him being deliberately made to be a POC character does not make him woke. Hes not even the first spider man deliberately made to be a different race. Their's supaidaman, whos an Asian spider man, and spider man 2099, whos also a mixed Latino just like miles is.

 

[Toons]

You have missed the point. It’s about appeal, diversity in a game isn’t necessarily unappealing. No one is saying that, only that the audience should be respected. If the audience consists of primarily straight men then it makes sense to cater to their tastes. That isn’t a controversial take.

So you're upset YOU aren't the one being pondered to all the time. Got it.

I mean, frankly, again, a game not featuring a straight male isn't an act of disrespect against striaght males, and straight males still lead 99.99 percent of games.

I cannot even think of a single game with a gay male lead thats ever existed. Theres been games with that as an OPTION due to pkayer choice but thats it.

Funny you should mention TLOU2. A franchise subverted in a similar manner to the Spider-Man franchise. A game series that was already well received and successful without any of the pandering that came later. In-fact, these games did well despite the shift in target audience. When straight middle aged men don’t show up for games like Concord and Forspoken then they fail. I’m suggesting that the very concept of a ‘modern audience‘ is a fabrication.

The concept of an exclusively straight male player base also is, and the suggestion that they should be "catered to" for the success of the industry is a false correlation to resolve from any real analysis of the situation.

 

[nkarafo]

Its not rare at all actually. You'll find most of the time when a black or minority m superhero was introduced for any reason before the 2000s, it was this. Because there was an active, societal trend they were pushing back against.

Him being deliberately made to be a POC character does not make him woke. Hes not even the first spider man deliberately made to be a different race. Their's supaidaman, whos an Asian spider man, and spider man 2099, whos also a mixed Latino just like miles is.

Point is, none of these characters are original. They are pandering. They took an existing successful character and changed him to appeal to certain people. Their most important trait is their different race/ethnicity because that's why they exist in the first place.

Blade is at least a honest, original character, even though the intention behind him is pandering like you say.

I mean, frankly, again, a game not featuring a straight male isn't an act of disrespect against striaght males, and straight males still lead 99.99 percent of games.

I cannot even think of a single game with a gay male lead thats ever existed. Theres been games with that as an OPTION due to pkayer choice but thats it.

How do you know a character is straight when the topic isn't even touched upon or when there's no romance/sex in the game? Let me guess: You assume a character is straight until they actually declare they are gay. And it's only gay characters who declare that because, according to woke devs, being non-straight has to be their most important trait so it has to be known even when it doesn't have to be.

 

[SwordofOlympus]

First off miles is mixed.

Second.. ok? Is this supposed to prove hes woke? Because... that really isn't helping your case.

John Stewart was designed to be a black man as green lantern from the get go. He was created for that explicit purpose. Does that make him woke or a dei character?

Blade was also specifically created with the intention to be black and you can fid interviews where his creator marv Wolfman says he pitched the character to dc who didn't want it, and he took it over to marvel because he wanted to have a diverse superhero. Does that make him woke?



Its not rare at all actually. You'll find most of the time when a black or minority m superhero was introduced for any reason before the 2000s, it was this. Because there was an active, societal trend they were pushing back against.

Him being deliberately made to be a POC character does not make him woke. Hes not even the first spider man deliberately made to be a different race. Their's supaidaman, whos an Asian spider man, and spider man 2099, whos also a mixed Latino just like miles is.

LOL. John Stewart is one of the many Green Lanterns of the Green Lantern Corps. Miles Morales is black Spiderman, end of.

Blade is a completely original character that has interesting lore - he isn't a "black" Dracula for example.

There is no need for characters like Miles Morales and Riri Williams to exist. Outside of the Panderverse, they are deeply unpopular characters and almost nobody buys their comic books.

 

[darrylgorn]

 

[Toons]

LOL. John Stewart is one of the many Green Lanterns of the Green Lantern Corps. Miles Morales is black Spiderman, end of.

There are a ton of spider men. There were at least 4 alternate spider man's before miles existed.

Hell there were 4 batmans before there was miles in the comics. You're really not making any point.

Blade is a completely original character that has interesting lore - he isn't a "black" Dracula for example.

Miles is an original character with his own unique origin, villains and supporting cast, hes just as original. Just because he bears the same name as spider man doesn't change that he's an original character.

There is no need for characters like Miles Morales and Riri Williams to exist. Outside of the Panderverse, they are deeply unpopular characters and almost nobody buys their comic books.

Theres no reason for any character exist, and a black character existing in comics isn't pandering lmfao. Riri who doesn't even have a comic series is especially an original character, she doesn't even go by iron man. She's no different than what nightwing is to batman.

So here's the issue; you have an original character with an original origin and original superhero name and that STILL doesn't good enough. Shes every bit as original as blade is but you wanna complain about her.

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

So you're upset YOU aren't the one being pondered to all the time. Got it.

I mean, frankly, again, a game not featuring a straight male isn't an act of disrespect against striaght males, and straight males still lead 99.99 percent of games.

I cannot even think of a single game with a gay male lead thats ever existed. Theres been games with that as an OPTION due to pkayer choice but thats it.



The concept of an exclusively straight male player base also is, and the suggestion that they should be "catered to" for the success of the industry is a false correlation to resolve from any real analysis of the situation.

You have missed the point again. The only audience that should be pandered to is the one that actually buys the product. To do otherwise, when considering existing IP, risks alienating the existing fanbase. Or, in the case of new IP, risks creating a game with no addressable market. We have seen this many times already. In-fact, there are multiple high profile games that have recently flopped for this very reason. How many examples do you require?

Are you even aware of the demographics associated to various genres or is this all some sort of ideological crusade? Have you ever wondered why there hasn’t been a gay male lead? Because there is no market for it. I find your rationale absolutely bizarre. You continuously misrepresent what is said and present your takedowns as some sort of gotcha, only you didn’t actually address any of the points made. Of course the player base should be ‘catered to’ as it relates to the continued success of any product. What are you even talking about?