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[Dalek]

Yup the more I think about it the more I love it. I think the father daughter aspect is what pushed it over the edge.

Fantastic chemistry

The scene with the "nice speech" was actually very powerful.

Hear hear.

Scientist supreme never gets his due. Mighty Avengers was such a long time ago, I hated what remender did with him in Rage of Ultron.

It's worth noting that if you like Hank Pym, pick up this weeks Ant-Man Annual. It's truly glorious. The issue is Scott flashing back to the last time he worked with Hank before Rage of Ultron and it's very touching.

 

[guek]

The bathroom murder was fantastic. As others have said, it may have been a bit heavy handed but for me, it quickly and effectively established how unhinged Cross really was. It's also seems like one of the most ideal ways of getting away with murder. The only trace is remnant DNA on a bathroom floor.

 

[Alienous]

Also, was i the only one extremely squicked by the way Cross killed that Frank guy? high caliber body horror!

In films that don't have any more blood than would surround a wound I was surprised by seeing a person turned into a red/pink liquid. I didn't think they'd go for that.

I was also surprised by how many times the word 'Shit' was used. It was even the punchline to a joke.

 

[KimiNewt]

Cross-posting from the regular thread because I didn't realise this one exists (and there's more discussion of the actual content here). Do we really need both threads?

Saw it yesterday. Thought it was pretty bad.
EDIT: I should say that comics-wise, I only read the newest Ant-Man series (which I loved) and seen him in various crossovers.

Paul Rudd was good, but he was given nothing to work with. The jokes fell flat, and those which did were quickly destroyed by making it overlong or outright explaining the joke.
For instance: the whole "I just ruined the moment, didn't I?" would have been much funnier if they cut shortly after he said that rather than gone on to have the others reply.
Or the Thomas jokes, which were good but they basically repeated the same joke three times. We get it.

The villain was horrible. Terribly cliche and incredibly shallow. I get that hthere was the excuse that his brain chemistry was influenced by the suit, but at the time he did various things like kill that guy in the bathroom, he had never used it (heck, we're only left to assume he used it before we actually see him in it).

The obligatory relationship between the main characters was simply that-- obligatory. No real lead-up to it. No real chemistry.

One thing I saw some people complain over which I thought was fine is the whole MCU integration. A couple of mentions of the Avengers which made sense, and one scene very much involved with the MCU is not too much. The one scene was goofy but it not really deter from the movie-- they needed an action scene midmovie anyway and it produced a few laughs from the audience.

Lastly, one thing I liked that they didn't do is make the new husband a TOTAL douche. I know him getting back together with his wife wasn't in the comic so luckily we avoided the horrible-stepdad-gets-dumped cliche.

Overall, not good. I think it had some potential, maybe Edgar Wright coulda realised it, maybe he couldn't.
As far as I see it, Civil War is Marvel's last chance to show that they can again produce something that's not some trite, off-the-assembly-line, pandering garbage.

 

[Bracewell]

In films that don't have any more blood than would surround a wound I was surprised by seeing a person turned into a red/pink liquid. I didn't think they'd go for that.

I was also surprised by how many times the word 'Shit' was used. It was even the punchline to a joke.

That felt weird (not bad, just surprising). I guess Daredevil is rubbing off on the movies.

Still, I came into this with no expectations and I had a wonderful time. it's probably one of my favorite blockbusters of the year. I was also pleasantly surprised that they didn't turn Gyp Rosetti into a bad caricature of the evil stepparent trope, that scene at the dinner table was heartwarming.

 

[Alienous]

Cross-posting from the regular thread because I didn't realise this one exists (and there's more discussion of the actual content here). Do we really need both threads?

Of course. How else would you get to flaunt your wrong opinion twice?

Spoiler

...

Fair points. I think enough of the joke's hit (It wasn't a 100% success rate, sure), both verbal and visual comedy. The villain was a villain which was good enough to me. A little bit Obidiah Stane from Iron Man 1, but he provides a threat. There were enough layered characters to not have a villain with a motivation outside of being evil.

The relationship played into the lack of Lang trying to rekindle the relationship with his wife, and I also liked how the hero and villain weren't competing for her. The Avengers scene was contrived but it worked with respect to providing action.

And yeah, I liked how they didn't do the clichéd "dick step-father exits the picture" storyline. Them all sitting around the table was cool to see.

 

[Korosenai]

My favorite part is when the heist crew was going to go help Ant Man.

"We will do anything to help Scott, nothing will stop us"

*pulls up to about 20 police officers

30 seconds of "back it up. Just back it up. Yep, back it up".

Had me laughing pretty hard.

 

[Hagi]

we will always have avengers academy and avengers AI. At leas they didn't kill him

I still need to read A.I hopefully it's on Marvel Unlimited.

It's worth noting that if you like Hank Pym, pick up this weeks Ant-Man Annual. It's truly glorious. The issue is Scott flashing back to the last time he worked with Hank before Rage of Ultron and it's very touching.

Cool I'm going to get it from Comixology later. Really enjoying Spencers run.

 

[Cuburt]

I'm a little disappointed with how they addressed Hank Pym's relationship with his wife.

All the stars were aligned to address the fact that he has hit his wife in the comics: the strained daughter relationship, the snide remarks in the opening scene, Pym choosing Lang because he wanted to make him a hero to his child, the suit making the occupant less mentally stable with prolonged use.

I was sure when Pym hit Cross it was going to get a mention. It seemed just below the surface, just at a point where I'm not sure it was there.

Really interesting observation.

The story does deal with great guilt that Hank has from his actions, but ultimately Janet left due to her own decision and I think it's hard to have an audience sympathize with a wife beater no matter how much remorse he has. In other words, you show Hank hit Janet and people aren't going to forgive him to get behind him and his plans because hitting her is completely his fault.

I'm glad they didn't go that direction, but the subtext is interesting since most of the movie you wonder what did he do that was so awful that his daughter resents him so much. What did he do to Janet? To take it even further, you don't know why he won't let his daughter use the suit, it could play as sexism/misogyny until you realize that he won't let her use the suit because he cares and not because he doesn't respect her or believe in her.

 

[Choppasmith]

Saw it last night and loved it! My theater was about three quarters of the way full. Lots of teens and young adults. Partially every time Luis was on screen the audience burst into laughter. He really stole the show. I probably enjoyed this more than Age of Ultron (a big part being that there's some actual post credit scenes here)

When Hope says "About damn time" I couldn't help but think that line was added to reflect the feelings of both Marvel and fans/readers who've been waiting SO LONG for Ant-Man and Wasp to join the MCU. Speaking of Wasp though, man glad to know I'm not crazy for seeing what looked like a feminine figure during the final shrinking sequence.

One question though, I could've SWORN I heard something about there being young Pym sequences where he'd be played by Jon Hamm. Am I just horribly confused or as this just part of Wright's original version that got scrapped?

Dafuq is going on here? Seriously?

What is this a bad drive by telling post or something? Could you explain yourself please?

 

[Secret Fawful]

I didn't think Cross was one-dimensional. I appreciated that he was oblivious, stupid, self-centered, self-conscious, and an insecure loser. So many movies do everything they can to make their villains cool or super-smart, but Cross was just a jackass who wasted his potential.

 

[GtwoK]

I overall really enjoyed the movie. The first third or so felt like it wasn't sure whether it wanted to be a comedy or an action movie. so the jokes (while mostly funny) kind of felt out of place. After that though it really picked up and found a good blend.

My one complaint would have to be with the whole going quantum thing. The visuals were phenomenal! but I can't stand how they built it up as "you should never do this. If you do this, you will certainly never come back. You will never see anyone you love ever again. It's all over". Then Scott made the decision to go quantum in about 3 seconds, which was strange enough. And then once he did, it was a whole 45 seconds before he was just "lol what if i put the growy thing on my belt",and then everything was back to normal, no problemo at all.

It feels like it was just sort of a throw-away escape to the problem of trying to get into his armour. I'm there could've been something better.

What's worse is I get the feeling that —and I haven't read the comics, so maybe I'm wrong— it's going to be come just another "thing" he can do to help him fight bad guys. That going quantum will become "just another power" that he has. Maybe not. Better not.

Question: for anyone that read the Edgar Wright script, was Scott jumping over the fence to break in to Hank's house supposed to be like the fence gags from the Cornetto trilogy? As soon as he did it, my mind immediately connected the two. Not sure if it was just coincidence or not.

 

[Hagi]

One thing I didn't get was how the serum was affecting Cross when they seemingly hadn't started any successful human trials until he put it on during the helicopter sequence. Hope clearly tried to talk him down in the vault by blaming the serum messing with his mind.

 

[Cuburt]

The bathroom murder was fantastic. As others have said, it may have been a bit heavy handed but for me, it quickly and effectively established how unhinged Cross really was. It's also seems like one of the most ideal ways of getting away with murder. The only trace is remnant DNA on a bathroom floor.

Also how he disposes of the guy in a paper towel that he flushes down the toilet is such a great visual short hand for character development without any exposition at all.

Then they just reinforce that as he lines up these cute sheep that he just numbers as experiments that he will brute force his way through tests until it actually works, regardless of the cost.

It's a shame that Cross will just be another Marvel villain people will write off because he doesn't have some conflicted, morally ambiguous backstory.

 

[Alienous]

Really interesting observation.

The story does deal with great guilt that Hank has from his actions, but ultimately Janet left due to her own decision and I think it's hard to have an audience sympathize with a wife beater no matter how much remorse he has. In other words, you show Hank hit Janet and people aren't going to forgive him to get behind him and his plans because hitting her is completely his fault.

I'm glad they didn't go that direction, but the subtext is interesting since most of the movie you wonder what did he do that was so awful that his daughter resents him so much. What did he do to Janet? To take it even further, you don't know why he won't let his daughter use the suit, it could play as sexism/misogyny until you realize that he won't let her use the suit because he cares and not because he doesn't respect her or believe in her.

I'm sure that was it.

But it was the opening scene where I thought "You know, they've got the right context for a character to have done something so heinous". The MCU danced around Tony's issues with alcoholism, but they did portray it in his dad during a flashback in Iron Man 2. As odd as it sounds, it seemed 'right'; Hank Pym being a violent person from a more misogynistic era who erupts at the mention of his wife. Then you throw in the prolonged exposure to the Ant-Man suit increasing how violent he is (where parallels the reasons he became violent to his wife in the comics).

It might have been too dark, but I don't think you'd need a flashback to address it. A sense at Pym's guilt at not having treated his wife as well as he should have, and how her 'death' meant that he couldn't ever apologize to her, and distancing himself from his daughter not because he was too busy with work (albeit work to find his wife), but because he doesn't think he deserves his daughter's love. And that being the reason, above all else, why he feels the need to choose Lang above himself or his daughter to be a hero, so that Lang can be a hero in his own daughter's eyes.

 

[jmood88]

Yes they did, they explain it when Cross tells Hope that he's tripling the security with more sensors, i don't remember exactly what the words he used were, but the point was that they were specifically so they could detect Ant-man, hence why they had to get Scott in thru the pipes.


Also, was i the only one extremely squicked by the way Cross killed that Frank guy? high caliber body horror!

Cross' death was a lot more disturbing than I thought it'd be.

 

[Cuburt]

I'm sure that was it.

But it was the opening scene where I thought "You know, they've got the right context for a character to have done something so heinous". The MCU danced around Tony's issues with alcoholism, but they did portray it in his dad during a flashback in Iron Man 2. As odd as it sounds, it seemed 'right'; Hank Pym being a violent person from a more misogynistic era who erupts at the mention of his wife. Then you throw in the prolonged exposure to the Ant-Man suit increasing how violent he is (where parallels the reasons he became violent to his wife in the comics).

It might have been too dark, but I don't think you'd need a flashback to address it. A sense at Pym's guilt at not having treated his wife as well as he should have, and how her 'death' meant that he couldn't ever apologize to her, and distancing himself from his daughter not because he was too busy with work (albeit work to find his wife), but because he doesn't think he deserves his daughter's love. And that being the reason, above all else, why he feels the need to choose Lang above himself or his daughter to be a hero, so that Lang can be a hero in his own daughter's eyes.

Interesting how you mention Tony's alcoholism in the MCU. It makes me think even more so that the subtext in this movie is intentional without diving into the ugliness that would be actually having things be stated outright.

I'm glad they didn't go with Tony being an alcoholic, even though I was looking for the threads since the first movie. It just seems like too difficult a character arc to just explain away in films and there is the potential for that thread to bog down the whole character by having everything have to relate to that. Just look at how bothered people get by Tony's Avengers 1 trauma by constantly comparing it to PTSD; either it's around in his characterization too much or not enough to please people. But they also show in IM2 how his drinking and party lifestyle could get completely out of control at his house party so the idea of the consequences of a problem like alcoholism is there without having to go as far as saying he is "an alcoholic" and dealing with all the baggage that give the character.

I don't think it would have been good to give Hank a "superhero suit is making him violent" as a way to explain violent tendencies, it just makes it sound like it's not his fault for hitting his wife. At that point, you might as well say Janet also had her brain messed with by using the suit and provoked him to hit her, thereby relieving him of accountability of his actions. /s A slippery slope for comic booky justification indeed.

A deeply flawed character like that could exist in a film, but this wasn't the film to be able to pull that off imo.

 

[Shaanyboi]

I was disappointed that the fight in the suitcase wasn't a bigger moment. The cellphone playing that song by The Cure was a fun touch, but I thought more could've been done with it. You could barely hear the song too.

A small negative in an otherwise great movie.

 

[GitarooMan]

I hope down the road we get a Pym/Tony Stark scene/story. On the whole I just hope we get more Michael Douglas in the MCU.

 

[Hagi]

I hope down the road we get a Pym/Tony Stark scene/story. On the whole I just hope we get more Michael Douglas in the MCU.

I could see Hank punching Tony in the face during Civil War. Bet he would have to queue up though.

 

[Big Chungus]

What happened to Mitchell Carson?

I remember him taking off with the yellow liquid and then nothing.

 

[Quick]

What happened to Mitchell Carson?

I remember him taking off with the yellow liquid and then nothing.

I'm going to venture a guess and say the Yellowjacket formula makes an appearance in Agents of SHIELD this upcoming season.

 

[Hagi]

What happened to Mitchell Carson?

I remember him taking off with the yellow liquid and then nothing.

One of the many set ups I presume. Hopefully to be taken up in another film because I don't want to see Shields take on shrinking.

 

[Dalek]

Also how he disposes of the guy in a paper towel that he flushes down the toilet is such a great visual short hand for character development without any exposition at all.

Then they just reinforce that as he lines up these cute sheep that he just numbers as experiments that he will brute force his way through tests until it actually works, regardless of the cost.

It's a shame that Cross will just be another Marvel villain people will write off because he doesn't have some conflicted, morally ambiguous backstory.

Agreed. Darren Cross was great.

The more I think about this movie the more I like it. I just hope the lukewarm Bo's office doesn't deter Marvel from making more low key movies like this.

I'm going to venture a guess and say the Yellowjacket formula makes an appearance in Agents of SHIELD this upcoming season.

Oh shit. I forgot that guy got away. For some reason I was thinking he was in the chopper and it exploded. Wrong on both accounts.

 

[T'Zariah]

Agreed. Darren Cross was great.

The more I think about this movie the more I like it. I just hope the lukewarm Bo's office doesn't deter Marvel from making more low key movies like this.

I'm mainly worried about Black Panther.

In my ideal fantasy, the director who makes it would treat it with as much care as Miller did with Mad Max Fury Road.

I want Wakanda to be done justice, and the exposition/world building done around their culture done through VISUALs with show and not telling.

I want Andy Serkis (who plays Klaw) to give it his all and act his ass off. I want Boseman and Serkis to be perfect foils, with fantastic chemistry to match the gorgeous visuals on screen.

I want BP to be something really, really special, and prove to Hollywood, that not only can you do good, no GREAT films with majority black casts, they can succeed at the box office too.

 

[mreddie]

Okay, liked the film but my nitpicks are majority connected to Wasp.

-Marvel, are you that cheap to hire a TV actress, I can see her face in the flashback yet you cover her up on the photo? Unless it was her picture Cross was holding during his encounter in Pyms house.
- "About damn time." God, Pym. Was this ask a test to trust in your daughter? And you never told her about how Jan went into the Microverse which speaking of?
- That was her shadow looming over Scott during the Microverse trip was it?
- So the second stinger has to take place during Civil War right?

I don't think I have anything else to add except the Falcon fight was enjoyable. Also, from the BO, I doubt this might get a sequel which is a shame but I want to see Lilly Wasp soon.

 

[Future Foundation]

- That was her shadow looming over Scott during the Microverse trip was it?

Wait, was it? I didn't notice a shadow.

 

[Blader]

Wait, was it? I didn't notice a shadow.

Yeah, it's more toward the upper right hand side of the screen.

 

[mreddie]

Wait, was it? I didn't notice a shadow.

Look closely at Scott's helmet during the trip, I swear you see her Shadow.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

 

[GAMEPROFF]

So its a bomba?

Because I thought official start is thursday... How can they already have boxoffice numbers?

 

[Future Foundation]

Yeah, it's more toward the upper right hand side of the screen.

Look closely at Scott's helmet during the trip, I swear you see her Shadow.

Damn. To be honest, I was just kinda taking everything in during the microverse trip. My eyes kept bouncing everywhere.

 

[mreddie]

So its a bomba?

Because I thought official start is thursday... How can they already have boxoffice numbers?

Not a bomba but not a Guardians level opening either.

 

[Nakazato]

Movie was great. I hope it won't bomb and the as Edgar to right the script

 

[Christian]

Just got back. Kinda disappointed that besides me and my buddy, there were only seven other people in the theater. Brutal.

Only thing that kinda took me out of kt, they didn't explain how the villain's brain chemistry was already so screwed up, since he apparently hadn't perfected the suit technology until a day or two before. Otherwise, I really enjoyed it immensely and hope for more Ant-Man.

 

[Alienous]

Just got back. Kinda disappointed that besides me and my buddy, there were only seven other people in the theater. Brutal.

Only thing that kinda took me out of kt, they didn't explain how the villain's brain chemistry was already so screwed up, since he apparently hadn't perfected the suit technology until a day or two before. Otherwise, I really enjoyed it immensely and hope for more Ant-Man.

Yeah, that can really change the experience of any movie, particularly a humour-heavy one.

The 'freedom' to laugh can be lost when you aren't in a packed cinema.

 

[Christian]

Oh, I wanted to ask, what were the references to the new heroes made at the end? My friend caught Spider-Man, the guy that can climb up walls. What were the others?

 

[kurahador]

Anyone can enlighten on what the post credit scene implies?
Did they try to do Ultron part 2 or something?

 

[Toa TAK]

Question: for anyone that read the Edgar Wright script, was Scott jumping over the fence to break in to Hank's house supposed to be like the fence gags from the Cornetto trilogy? As soon as he did it, my mind immediately connected the two. Not sure if it was just coincidence or not.

Wait, the script is out there?!

 

[Quick]

Anyone can enlighten on what the post credit scene implies?
Did they try to do Ultron part 2 or something?

The mid-credits scene is Hope getting her own Wasp suit. It's about damn time.

The post-credits scene is a scene from Civil War, where Cap and Falcon find/capture(?) Bucky. They went in alone and were considering calling Tony for help, but the "accords" might not let them. Falcon knows just the guy to call.

 

[inm8num2]

I really liked the MCU references and tie-ins with this film. Fun to see Carter and Wilson. When Lang says to Pym that they should call the Avengers, it feels like a very natural reaction to everything he's been told. I liked how Pym said he wanted to keep the suit out of Stark's hands. Those little touches are nice.

I kind of wished Hope had more to do, but it's going to be great seeing her in a suit in the future.

 

[GtwoK]

Wait, the script is out there?!

Is it not? Someone on a previous page was citing the differences between the Edgar Wright version and the released version, so I assumed it was.

 

[Toa TAK]

Is it not? Someone on a previous page was citing the differences between the Edgar Wright version and the released version, so I assumed it was.

Maybe it was this?

 

[TheAbsolution]

What a fantastic movie.
The humor in thus film was amazing.
"We've got to help!"
Sees all the cops.
"Backing up?"
"Backing up."

And Luis's stories were hilarious. He needs to come back.

Everybody in my theater died laughing at the tank scene. So funny.

The Cure vie Siri was lol inspired.

Great movie.

 

[SporeCrawler]

Wow this movie is the best marvel movie I have seen so far (and this is probably the fourth time that I say this in the recent years, avengers, iron man 3, cap 2 and guardians of the galaxy being the other ones)

I love how they introduce this legacy of the "antman" as a off the radar hero that has existed alongside Cap America in the history but was always conceiled.

 

[Dragun619]

Yea, I know that the director confirmed that there is someone hidden in the Microverse scenes.

But I dunno if that's the shot. Still, that's pretty cool. Wonder who it is other than the obvious, Janet.

 

[Hagi]

Anyone else think it's pretty crazy that Falcon just went full HAM with his machine guns against Scott? That's what you get for trespassing on Avengers property? good thing Rhodey wasn't there I suppose.

Then we get the whole "I know a guy" who you tried to kill scene at the end lol

 

[Coffee Dog]

Anyone else think it's pretty crazy that Falcon just went full HAM with his machine guns against Scott? That's what you get for trespassing on Avengers property? good thing Rhodey wasn't there I suppose.

Then we get the whole "I know a guy" who you tried to kill scene at the end lol

He was a guy with superpowers. Falcon's gotta take every chance he can get, lol.

 

[mreddie]

Was I the one of the few people in the theatre that got the Garrett Morris cameo?

 

[VeryGooster]

Was I the one of the few people in the theatre that got the Garrett Morris cameo?

Knew who he was but hadn't realized the extent of his cameo until I was on TV Tropes.