Mibu no ookami
Banned
Everything they said was factual backed up by a screenshot (and not one that was cropped).
How exactly is that him being a clown?
Are Retailers No Longer selling the Series X?
- Thread starter Gambit2483
- Start date
Everything they said was factual backed up by a screenshot (and not one that was cropped).
How exactly is that him being a clown?
Banjo64
cumsessed
It's not GAF logic.
What about Microsoft's current hardware situation is good to you? There is little demand, as evidenced by sales, and now stores are not stocking the consoles. How is that a healthy situation?
hououinkyouma00
Member
Kvally
Member
Kvally
Member
Move to digital only?
It has been a hot minute since we've had any of the regular X's.
And looking at my employee app, just about every store in the twin cities metro is completely out as well.
Codes 208
Member
I wouldnt be surprised if they were. Their physical game selection here is pretty atrocious and its getting shrunk down further next week
(Going from 15 slots to 8)
Comparatively, the ps5 games have 40 slots and the switch has two cabinets (50 each) with a third one coming on tuesday for the s2 games
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That's interesting. There was some suspicion a few months ago that the discless Series X had quietly replaced the regular Series X.
It has been a hot minute since we've had any of the regular X's.
And looking at my employee app, just about every store in the twin cities metro is completely out as well.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
Last year I checked out of curiosity and none were in stock with disc drives anywhere. Xbox going all digital it seems. Still seems stupid though. What are physical game collectors supposed to do if their Xbox breaks?
GHG
Member
Digital only consoles?
Kvally
Member
bitbydeath
Member
Is that old stock that hasn't been bought yet (because it's digital) or are the digital versions still being replenished?
It has been a hot minute since we've had any of the regular X's.
And looking at my employee app, just about every store in the twin cities metro is completely out as well.
hououinkyouma00
Member
For the direction Microsoft is going it would make total sense. Digital only fits their focus on gamepass and locks you into their store where they make more profit as well on top of physical in general dying.
Not all that different from if somebody's Xbox 360 or any other older console breaks really in that you just buy used. Used Series X consoles will still exist just as used PS1s exist.
Codes 208
Member
Theyre getting restocked pretty frequently, we just got four of the digitals last week and weve sold two in the last few days
nial
Member
That's in less than 10 years from now. People will not suddenly stop buying PlayStation hardware in 10 years.
Even comparing with the PS5 Slim APU on 6nm, the XSX APU should cost maybe $30 more. The motherboard might be slightly more expensive due to the wider bus, but everything else should use standard components that are a similar or worse spec to the PS5. So I don't see how you get to $150-200 more expensive without major supply chain differences.
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IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Went into Smyths Toy Store today (UK chain of toy shops) to pick up my nephew's birthday present. They stock their consoles on shelves behind the tills, but today they had absolutely no Xbox consoles at all. Series S or X.
Instead they had Quests and racing wheels where the Xbox consoles normally go.
I've been going to this store for a few years to pick up gifts for my nephews and this is the first time I've seen them without any Xbox stock.
Instead they had Quests and racing wheels where the Xbox consoles normally go.
I've been going to this store for a few years to pick up gifts for my nephews and this is the first time I've seen them without any Xbox stock.
Codes 208
Member
I wouldnt be surprised if more UK/EU store pre-emptively drop xbox due to the fears regarding the tariffs
It also doesnt help that xbox shot themselves in the foot with the price hikes, its like theyre trying to make themselves less appealing to give the switch 2 a better chance
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Mibu no ookami
Banned
The fact he can't tell the difference is actually pretty depressing to me.
hououinkyouma00
Member
Do we know if Microsoft still sells every console at a loss? If so they gotta be doing something wrong.
Unlike PlayStation and Nintendo, Xbox still loses money when it sells a new console
Microsoft loses up to $200 on each new-gen Xbox
jm89
Member
You can even see online the stocks levels of each Smyth's store, it's very little.
I think MS are no longer doing big restocks, just small ones.
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dragonyeuw
Member
I can't speak on TV margins but for one thing, TV purchases are intended to be one off purchases. Video game consoles exist to sell at high volume expressly for the purpose of selling games and accessories, that's where the money is. Best Buy doesn't just want you to buy an Xbox, they want you to pick up a few games, an extra controller, a gamepass card etc etc. Its a tricky proposition with Xbox this gen because not only does the system sell at low volume, but its userbase is decidedly digital and more specifically, Gamepass-centric. So if the Xbox neither sells well enough on its own and/or doesn't also drive physical software, then the incentive to keep the system stocked regularly in decent numbers simply isn't there. The perception to the consumer of 'the retailer isn't selling the Xbox in-store' and 'the retailer is selling the Xbox in-store BUT only a few units at a time, so most of the time the consumer won't just walk into a store and find one' ends up amounting to the same thing.
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Mibu obsessively negatively posting about a company he openly doesn't like ("Xbox brought nothing positive to gaming except possibly Xbox Live") is not merely "stating that something is failing." The undertones are obvious. He tends to view things through a Sony prism and ultimately is hoping for Xbox users to convert to PS5. I think we're a bit beyond the realm of plausible deniability where Mibu is concerned but it's nice of you to try.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I agree, I'm just pushing back on the idea that there stores wouldn't have it in stock if they could because of space. My local Best Buy has a legion go station, an MSI claw station, a Nex console station and a meta quest 3 station. They are struggling to fill the space they have rather than struggling with overflowing stock.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Do we know if Microsoft still sells every console at a loss? If so they gotta be doing something wrong.
In late 2022 both Sony and Nintendo made profit on each console (Sony only made money on the physical PS5 though) and I'd imagine that's only gotten better since then. This was when Spencer said they lose $150-200 per console.Unlike PlayStation and Nintendo, Xbox still loses money when it sells a new console
Microsoft loses up to $200 on each new-gen Xboxwww.gamesradar.com
The bloomberg article that claimed Sony said they were making money on physical hardware is pretty debunked by Sony's financial statements consistently saying otherwise. I've ever reached out to the author who wrote that to see where he was getting his quote (it appeared no where else, nor did it appear in the QA that he would be sourcing, he didn't do an interview), he did not respond.
I wouldn't assume that things have gotten better for Microsoft in terms of cost. They don't have nearly the economies of scale that Sony have and even Sony is probably paying more for certain components today than they were a couple of years ago.
I think Sony was at least breaking even as of recently which allowed them to do heavier discounting.
I think there are multiple factors causing Microsoft to do what they did
- Probably a bit more expensive to produce an XBS than a PS5
- The production of the XBS is split between the Series S and X, meaning both production lines have only reached ~15 million units whereas the PS5 digital and standard have always shared the same production line and even got iterated upon into the PS5 Slim which saves them money. Even the PS5 Pro doesn't appear to be a large departure in production
- Microsoft was responding too quickly to the tariffs and the situation is massively fluid
- The 90 day pause happened after Microsoft announced their new pricing and there is a very good chance that even after 90 days the tariffs won't escalate further
- Satya Nadella is probably tired of losing money on hardware and no longer sees the big picture promise of a larger ecosystem resulting in future revenue
dragonyeuw
Member
That being the case, then it's as much a calculated choice on how much stock Microsoft is producing and sending to retailers as it is a retailer strategy to dedicate shelf space ( and the retailers have different practices for this based on location). I'm sure the odds of walking into a Bestbuy in the middle of Manhattan and finding an XBox is higher than a Best Buy near a suburban area in Utah or something like that. They have stats on where the highest foot traffic is, which locations sell the most systems and that's where they will send most stock. It will have the effect of 'the Xbox is being sold in-store' for some and 'the Xbox isn't being sold in-store' for others. And now they've actually increased the price of the system, which only means less volume and less visibility at retail going forward. Someone used the right term earlier, Microsoft is producing and selling these things at scale based on its demand the past 4 years. The economics of scale haven't allowed them to drop the price( not to forget chip costs haven't dropped), quite the opposite. They'd rather sell 10 consoles at $599 and make money then lose money or break even selling them at $499.
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Mibu no ookami
Banned
Easy enough to ascertain whether there is in store stock at best buy in Manhattan and there isn't (for xsx)
dragonyeuw
Member
Yes, I just checked the Bestbuy at 44th and 5th for shits and giggles. There's currently no X's in stock at that location.
Astray
Member
Plausible deniability lmao.Mibu obsessively negatively posting about a company he openly doesn't like ("Xbox brought nothing positive to gaming except possibly Xbox Live") is not merely "stating that something is failing." The undertones are obvious. He tends to view things through a Sony prism and ultimately is hoping for Xbox users to convert to PS5. I think we're a bit beyond the realm of plausible deniability where Mibu is concerned but it's nice of you to try.
He's some guy on the internet you can put him on ignore if it's that bad.
I would never. Honestly, I'd miss him.
Astray
Member
My current best theory is they shut down the ongoing production line (basically no more dedicated production lines that are devoted to making Xboxes 24/7) and are instead doing specific production runs whenever total stock in a big market reaches a certain point. They're doing this because it makes no sense to keep producing and pumping stock into a market that's flat-out rejecting it (and it isn't even because of the PS ports, this issue predates them).
This explains why stores worldwide tend to get into stock droughts and then get restocked for a bit, then over time we get to another drought etc etc.
The downside of this approach is that the per item cost is gonna be way higher this way (which actually might partly explain the price hikes) so the fact they're even doing this (if they are, remember this is a theory and not confirmed) means they've probably had some terrible meetings with retailer reps this gen.
They're also assigning a higher percentage of stock to their own stores so they can sell at a higher margin over there. The reason I'm saying this is because I've never really seen their own online store go out of stock in any country it's operating in, even when all the big retailers in said country are out of stock.
This decision to limit distribution has a downside too.. It limits distribution. A consumer that doesn't know you have a store or can't buy from it for whatever reason is basically locked out and has to "settle" for a PS5 or a Switch 2.
It's honestly one big deathspiral that requires heavy investment to get out of, and I think MS board is done giving Xbox anything and wants to start taking from it now
Astray
Member
One thing you gotta keep in mind is all these brands pay for these dedicated spaces.
Bestbuy or Walmart or Target isn't giving away primo spots in their stores for free. They take quite a bit of money for it.
Unknown Soldier
Member
They are raising the prices because they stopped production of new units and are just trying to maximize what profit they can get from remaining units
It's the same principle as "going out of business" sales, if you never actually walked into some retail store which is going out of business, many times stuff left over in there is actually marked up from how it was before
hououinkyouma00
Member
Exactly! If you walk into a Best Buy and see a Legion Go or ROG Ally section it's because those companies spent money to have them there.
If Microsoft wanted Xbox to have presence in stores they would have presence in stores.
dragonyeuw
Member
Some solid stuff here, and I generally agree and touched on a few of your points( although not quite so eloquently). I also have the impression that a store may get a small number of units, they sell out, and whenever they get more stock is, well.....whenever they get more. So like you said, it will lead to drought periods. The point you made about Microsoft also assigning a higher ( probably the highest) percentage to their own stores makes sense, not much point in having a significant percentage of their units at retailers that take a cut+ plus having to pay for shelf space, not when the demand is low. Microsoft has clearly resigned themselves to the fate of the Xbox Series, riding out this gen until whatever comes next for them. The irony is the low demand of current Xbox hardware is mostly through their own choices over the years, so it's all a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Edit: I think Microsoft's hail mary to get Xbox consoles in homes at scale came back in 2023 when they were selling the Series X over Xmas at $350. A few months earlier, Starfield launched and they figured that combo would drive units. When that didn't happen, I'm guessing they went 'fuck it' and the retail presence and consistent shipments has slowed down since. There was a point when the most readily available in-store console was the Series S between 2020-2022.
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Chittagong
Gold Member
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Mibu obsessively negatively posting about a company he openly doesn't like ("Xbox brought nothing positive to gaming except possibly Xbox Live") is not merely "stating that something is failing." The undertones are obvious. He tends to view things through a Sony prism and ultimately is hoping for Xbox users to convert to PS5. I think we're a bit beyond the realm of plausible deniability where Mibu is concerned but it's nice of you to try.
I have you on ignore. I occasionally reveal ignore though.
I call balls and strikes. I've been moderated against at least twice because I was critical of Sony.
I've been critical of Sony's live service push and the cadence of their PC releases.
You thinking I see things through a Sony prism is only a thing because Sony's doing well as a company and Microsoft isn't. [Edit: In gaming]
Blaming the umpire for calling 4 balls and you walk a guy instead of the pitcher is nasty work.
Sony is outselling their competition by more than 2:1, yeah, that's going to result in rosier commentary from me. I don't care personally if someone plays on PC, Xbox, PS5, or Switch. You're projecting your own state onto me. When it comes to PC, PS5, and Xbox... the games are the exact same 95% of the time. Gaming has never been so homogeneous before.
My advice to you and others is to stick to the facts, but I've given that advice before. It falls on deaf ears.
I'm not rooting for Microsoft to fail but they ARE failing. That's a reality. Do I personally think Microsoft has contributed a lot to gaming? Not really... No. What are their big franchises in the last 25 years? They're not a pivotal publisher. I could name 10 companies that have produced more engaging new IP in the last 25 years than Microsoft has. What genres have they defined or elevated? Their console business has not been well run either.
So yes, I think Xbox Live is their biggest contribution in gaming, though I'd add xInput as well. I don't think gaming will miss Microsoft, but do I want to see Microsoft employees get laid off because of bad executive strategy? Certainly not. Do I want games like Indiana Jones to struggle because it is 1st person instead of 3rd? No. I was a massive Indiana Jones fan as a kid. I was obsessed with Desktop Adventures. I would have loved for this game to be a hit. I don't care about Avowed any more or less than I don't care about Kingdom Come Deliverance 2. Don't root against either.
You see this as me rooting against Microsoft/Xbox because that is the prism in which you see everything as a zero sum game. I'm just out here doing my best to do a decent job analyzing the industry and where it is going and you have to be blind not to see that Microsoft isn't doing well and their future is precarious at best.
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StereoVsn
Gold Member
I recall reading that they dropped the ball big time not only with more expensive motherboard and chip design but also with the packaging. Essentially that vertical assembly is more expensive and they couldn't cut cost in same manner as Sony.Do we know if Microsoft still sells every console at a loss? If so they gotta be doing something wrong.
In late 2022 both Sony and Nintendo made profit on each console (Sony only made money on the physical PS5 though) and I'd imagine that's only gotten better since then. This was when Spencer said they lose $150-200 per console.Unlike PlayStation and Nintendo, Xbox still loses money when it sells a new console
Microsoft loses up to $200 on each new-gen Xbox
So basically this is a failure to consider being able to scale on MS part when designing XSX.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
It's like saying I'm not critical enough of the OKC Thunder and that I'm rooting against the New Orleans Pelicans...
Like one team is in the NBA Finals and the other perennially fails and largely fals to even make the playoffs...
That's the objective reality.
I think
HeisenbergFX4
mentioned that he thought (at least to him) that Microsoft had done a better job than Sony this generation with software, and while I'm sure that could be possible because personal preferences are personal preferences, but it's so far removed from the realm of objective reality.
I could say I prefer watching the Pelicans play than the Thunder, but the question has to be "why" and it seems heavily biased.
Objectively, Sony has produced a multitude of successful games either critically or commercially in the last 5 years. So again, my commentary would reflect that.
GTA6 is going to be the best selling game of the generation. I won't buy it, but objectively I can recognize it's the most important game of the generation. Objectively, it's a big deal for T2. Objectively, if T2 delivers here, they should be praised for their accomplishment. And I would always caveat any public statements against GTA5 with the objective acknowledgement that its the most popular game ever, but that isn't what Heisenberg did or does. Which again shows a level of bias.
I hate the New England Patriots and I don't like the Kansas City Chiefs... Can anyone deny their success though? Objectively?
I don't know why it is so hard for Xbox fans to be objective. They take any criticism of Microsoft so to heart while ignoring the basis for the criticism. They should be the ones complaining the MOST, but as a community they've enabled Microsoft for years and the results aren't good.
Like one team is in the NBA Finals and the other perennially fails and largely fals to even make the playoffs...
That's the objective reality.
I think
HeisenbergFX4
mentioned that he thought (at least to him) that Microsoft had done a better job than Sony this generation with software, and while I'm sure that could be possible because personal preferences are personal preferences, but it's so far removed from the realm of objective reality. I could say I prefer watching the Pelicans play than the Thunder, but the question has to be "why" and it seems heavily biased.
Objectively, Sony has produced a multitude of successful games either critically or commercially in the last 5 years. So again, my commentary would reflect that.
GTA6 is going to be the best selling game of the generation. I won't buy it, but objectively I can recognize it's the most important game of the generation. Objectively, it's a big deal for T2. Objectively, if T2 delivers here, they should be praised for their accomplishment. And I would always caveat any public statements against GTA5 with the objective acknowledgement that its the most popular game ever, but that isn't what Heisenberg did or does. Which again shows a level of bias.
I hate the New England Patriots and I don't like the Kansas City Chiefs... Can anyone deny their success though? Objectively?
I don't know why it is so hard for Xbox fans to be objective. They take any criticism of Microsoft so to heart while ignoring the basis for the criticism. They should be the ones complaining the MOST, but as a community they've enabled Microsoft for years and the results aren't good.
Klayzer
Member
Ball washing a particular brand for years, will have that kind of effect on you. They can't tell the difference.
billthomas696969
Member
I see the Series X on Marketplace for $300 regularly, and the Series S for $150. They're definitely available if you're interested. Also, it appears they're available directly from Microsoft no problem.
Klayzer
Member
Truth.
Jinxed
Member
Mibu no ookami
Banned
I think you're missing the point and maybe others who don't understand why Walmart resellers wouldn't count are missing the same point.
It's about taking information and analyzing it to predict a future state.
If the only inventory is available via resellers/used marketplaces and Microsoft themselves, it suggests these are no longer being delivered to Retailers in any sizeable numbers.
This means 1 maybe 2 things.
Retailers are not interested in buying the XSX and/or Microsoft has slowed or halted production on hardware.
So if you can logically deduce either or both of these situations, go further what does that mean? What does it mean for Xbox hardware over the next year or so? What does it mean for future Xbox hardware?
Let's say Microsoft announced an Xbox 5 and it was direct to consumer only. You could only purchase it online and at Microsoft retail outlets. What would this mean for hardware adoption rates? And what would those hardware adoption rates mean for software development?
It's dominos, it's chess... can you see the moves down the road or are you only able to read the moves happening in real time?
It's shocking how much you have to spell things out for some people here...and they still don't get it or simply refuse to connect the dots.
There's always a few people in these threads I see who actually will recognize how dire the current situation is...but then go on and claim everything will be fine for next gen and that there is no way MS leave the console business. Like, what? There is no "next gen" with these numbers and with MS throwing all of their games on competing platforms. First customers leave your platform, then retail leaves, then finally developers leave.
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HJuggernaut
Member
Can confirm that I can't find any Series X either. Which makes me believe they were selling them at a loss.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Anyone even remotely familiar with Satya Nadella has seen this show before.
First, he started putting MS Office products on Android and iOS and then they discontinued Windows Mobile because they realized there was way more money in just getting the audience on Android and iOS.
Look at what happened to Zune. They took the hardware and they tried to build a service around it. First it was Zune Marketplace, then it was Zune Music Pass, then Xbox Music, and the Groove Music Pass... They tried to go hardware agnostic and it predated Spotify.
It failed for similar reason that PS Vue failed. It's marketing was too aligned with PlayStation and Zune Music Pass was too aligned with Zune hardware, which people didn't want and Zune marketplace which people didn't want to use.
Nadella is using the exact same strategy that he used for Windows Mobile as he is using for Xbox, but people want to bury their head in the sand.
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