Phoenix
Member
Seriously.
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At least 230 people killed in Brazil nightclub fire
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Seriously.
Not only that but the state of São Paulo has the same HDI as Israel. 2nd only to the Federal District, which is comparable to the US and the Netherlands.
A lot of wrong things happened in this nightclub. And the press here in Brazil will talk about all of these wrong things in the next month. The sad part is that, even with the press talking about these mistakes, nothing will be learned.
My heart is with the families of the victims.
My heart is with the families of the victims.
1st.
It's a developing nation (with very high economic inequalities) if that's what you were looking for.
that map is war/defence alliances?
Some things did change after the 2007 TAM tragedy in Congonhas in terms of security measures, so there's hope.
231 confirmed. Number may increase in the coming hours as there are 117 people on local hospitals atm.
Seriously, pyrotechnics inside a closed place, with the walls and ceiling coated with the anti-acoustic materials made of styrofoam, could only end in a tragedy.
I'm from Brazil and almost every local TV channel is talking about this. My condolences to the relatives of the victims.
Seriously, pyrotechnics inside a closed place, with the walls and ceiling coated with the anti-acoustic materials made of styrofoam, could only end in a tragedy.
I'm from Brazil and almost every local TV channel is talking about this. My condolences to the relatives of the victims.
Lionel Mandrake
Member
The terms are actually used to identify what nations sided with who during the Cold War. I believe Third World means that they didn't take either side.
This is terrible. Sounds pretty much exactly like the Station fire.
Yes. The terms come from the cold war.
1st: NATO allies.
2nd: USSR allies
3rd: non aligned.
Ireland is a 3rd world nation
I believe it was Mao Zedong.
Terribly sad tragedy that shouldn't be able to happen after similar incidents..
Concerning the status of Brazil..
Isn't it an absolute hell-hole in certain places though? That's like the heated discussions I have with Indian friends about their home nation. They tout it as all wonderful, lavish and modern whilst painting a story for only the area they lived in and were raised.
http://www.ruralpovertyportal.org/country/home/tags/brazil
If not 3rd world, then definitely developing.
Concerning the status of Brazil..
Isn't it an absolute hell-hole in certain places though? That's like the heated discussions I have with Indian friends about their home nation. They tout it as all wonderful, lavish and modern whilst painting a story for only the area they lived in and were raised.
http://www.ruralpovertyportal.org/country/home/tags/brazil
If not 3rd world, then definitely developing.
It's a developing nation, and yes, there are some pretty fucked up places here - especially in the northern regions.
And it still was allowed to hold events like this one. The local authorities have blood on their hands too.
Yes, which is why that label is outdated and should no longer be used since it doesn't apply. The correct terms would either be a developed, developing, or underdeveloped nation. Brazil being in the "developing" category.
Jean Valjean
Member
This happened in one of the richest parts of the country.
WeAreStarStuff
Member
Absolutely horrific.
Insane Metal
Member
Jesus Christ this is horrible.
I don't even know what to say... I just hope the responsibles for this tragedy get locked for the rest of their lives.
EDIT
The place had only ONE DOOR. Entry/exit. Some people survived because they escaped before the security closed the doors, others escaped because they ran through a second door used by people to go to the street to smoke. But it was closed shortly after too.
EDIT 2
Pictures (nsfw) http://zerohora.clicrbs.com.br/rs/f...a-maria-deixa-pelo-menos-90-mortos-35067.html
I don't even know what to say... I just hope the responsibles for this tragedy get locked for the rest of their lives.
EDIT
The place had only ONE DOOR. Entry/exit. Some people survived because they escaped before the security closed the doors, others escaped because they ran through a second door used by people to go to the street to smoke. But it was closed shortly after too.
EDIT 2
Pictures (nsfw) http://zerohora.clicrbs.com.br/rs/f...a-maria-deixa-pelo-menos-90-mortos-35067.html
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
Who sets off fireworks inside a building, wtf. Also, pay when you leave? And locking exits? Double wtf.
Dumbass owners.
Dumbass owners.
jamesinclair
Banned
In Brazil, you pay for all your drinks as you leave so you only handle money once
according to that map, Indonesia, the Philippines, East Timor are also first world countries. According to wiki the terms first/second/third world countries seem to have more to do with political affiliation than economy or the state of society in a country, though we usually tend to refer to the later definitions
Paying to leave a club?
I have been wanting to go to Brazil for years now, and this is the first I've heard of this. Ridiculous.
Especially when someone is drunk and has to be sensible to handle whatever method there is to pay and leave.
Stupid ass security.
The money is that important to you that you lock people into a place on fire with no ventilation? It really gets to me how brainless some people can be, especially knowing damn well the requirements ain't that high to be security and to be in charge and be responsible for this mess.
I have been wanting to go to Brazil for years now, and this is the first I've heard of this. Ridiculous.
Especially when someone is drunk and has to be sensible to handle whatever method there is to pay and leave.
Jesus Christ this is horrible.
I don't even know what to say... I just hope the responsibles for this tragedy get locked for the rest of their lives.
EDIT
The place had only ONE DOOR. Entry/exit. Some people survived because they escaped before the security closed the doors, others escaped because they ran through a second door used by people to go to the street to smoke. But it was closed shortly after too.
EDIT 2
Pictures (nothing graphic) http://zerohora.clicrbs.com.br/rs/f...a-maria-deixa-pelo-menos-90-mortos-35067.html
Stupid ass security.
The money is that important to you that you lock people into a place on fire with no ventilation? It really gets to me how brainless some people can be, especially knowing damn well the requirements ain't that high to be security and to be in charge and be responsible for this mess.
The practice seems fine. You go to a club here, you're often asked for your credit card or something to have a 'tab' that you pay when you leave. Its not much different.
The problem isn't the system, its that security was too damn block-headed to realize how much they were putting people at risk. I doubt the whole place was up in flames and they just cruelly shut the doors on people, asking them to pay while their shirts were on fire or something.
That's weird. With clubs in Canada, you pay a cover fee at entrance (if there is one) and you pay for each drink at a time. You can leave at any time.
deejay8595
my posts are "MEH"
Yeah... That's how clubs are here in the US.
Myke Greywolf
Ambassador of Goodwill
You may not be aware of how the country works.
No matter how pretty a façade Brazil gives to the world, or how rich some (very limited) parts of it are, the general mentalities in this place are still stuck pretty firmly in third world territory, and will stay there for quite a while, as the whole "civism" thing just seems too hard to comply with for most of the populace.
Safety regulations may exist to give the world an impression of civilization, but inspection and enforcement is almost always lax, corrupt or even non-existent, so there is no reason to follow them.
Insane Metal
Member
Damn. Look at this
https://www.facebook.com/michele.cardoso.315/posts/381838465240582
"Fire at KISS help"
And she doesn't answer anymore. Then I found this:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...53834506.46680.100003917087944&type=1&theater
A friend of hers, saying she'll miss her.
=( I... can't handle this.
https://www.facebook.com/michele.cardoso.315/posts/381838465240582
"Fire at KISS help"
And she doesn't answer anymore. Then I found this:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...53834506.46680.100003917087944&type=1&theater
A friend of hers, saying she'll miss her.
=( I... can't handle this.
You can pay for each drink at a time here, but its pretty common and convenient to just start a tab, which isn't much different from the system they apparently use in Brazil.
Thats not the right place to point fingers, I dont think.
that's how clubs in the rest of the world work, but the system they use in Brazil is pretty decent for making a few extra bucks. Though what really killed these people is the complete disregard of any safety measures
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
If all clubs do the pay when you leave thing, do all of them close off the exits too like this place?
Seems the pay when you leave system sucks if it forces the owners to do this.
And of course, don't set off fireworks inside.
Seems the pay when you leave system sucks if it forces the owners to do this.
And of course, don't set off fireworks inside.
everyday math
Banned
Well damn....
It doesn't force the owners to do anything in a situation like this. For one, I'd be surprised if the order to close the doors was at the owner's request. It was probably a quick reaction by security to seeing a bunch of people fleeing. If there was actually any time to think about things, I'm pretty sure the owner would have been more worried about their establishment being turned into a charred ruin.
Horrifying. I had a sick feeling of deja vu reading the news and going through this thread, after the similar Rhode Island fire. Reading about the other similar disasters since then was an eye opener. I cannot understand why the use of pyrotechnics indoors is even considered, ever.
And closing the exit so people don't leave without paying. Incredible and tragic.
And closing the exit so people don't leave without paying. Incredible and tragic.
jamesinclair
Banned
No, its like any restaurant where you order all you want and deal with the check at the end. Doesnt stop fire escapes. Sure, people can abuse it and run out the back, but they dont.
Escape Goat
Member
europe makes you pay to use the bathroom. There are very odd systems in use in this world.
R10Neymarfan
Member
But...World Cup. And samba, and ginga, and football. And and the pretty beaches.
Most iimportantly the World Cup and the Olympics. You guys have a long way to go and it's 2013 right now. Still love Brazil though minus the misconceptions and stereotypes you guys create for yourselves.
TDLink
Member
I've been to clubs in Austria and Italy that use this same system for just paying when you leave. It actually works pretty well. (At those clubs they also made a clear warning that if you don't have the card on your at the end of the night you are charged as if you had a bunch of drinks, something like a couple hundred euro so as to incentivize you to hold on to it, and I suppose make more money off dumb people). If you are coherent enough to keep the card though it works really well and you get drinks really fast whenever you want them.
There seem to be two main causes for the deaths here:
1. Allowing use of Pyrotechnics inside, a closed space like this club, always dumb. Just use lasers/lights instead.
2. The security for being idiotic and locking the front doors. Fine, people will stiff you on one night of the year in terms of paying for drinks but at least they wouldn't be dead.
There seem to be two main causes for the deaths here:
1. Allowing use of Pyrotechnics inside, a closed space like this club, always dumb. Just use lasers/lights instead.
2. The security for being idiotic and locking the front doors. Fine, people will stiff you on one night of the year in terms of paying for drinks but at least they wouldn't be dead.
For whatever it's worth this happened in one of the richest states, far from a hellhole. This is not the place to start dumb north vs south arguments, shit like this happened recently in places like the US or Sweden.
Just a bunch of tragic circunstances and human errors really, I've stopped going to clubs and other small indoor events exactly because fire exits are either locked or blocked by bouncers to prevent people from leaving with open tabs, something like this was bound to happen.
Just a bunch of tragic circunstances and human errors really, I've stopped going to clubs and other small indoor events exactly because fire exits are either locked or blocked by bouncers to prevent people from leaving with open tabs, something like this was bound to happen.
SpectreFire
Member
Uh... locking thousands of people inside a burning building?
How is that not considered a crime against humanity? I mean holy shit, Nazis were being shot for doing the same thing...
How is that not considered a crime against humanity? I mean holy shit, Nazis were being shot for doing the same thing...
Come on, Nazis? Really?
Not that it matters for all the dead and their families, but they were not locked inside after it was burning, it just happened that fire exits that were supposed to be open were locked and once the fire started it was too fast.
SpectreFire
Member
Didn't someone say that security stopped people from leaving because they wanted them to pay their tabs?
Either way, it's a bit of a reach, but when your first reaction to people running out of a burning building is to stop them... that's all sorts of fucked up.
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