• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Avowed | Review Thread

Humdinger

Gold Member
its really not that complicated, its basically the worst rated obsidian game, and they already have some turds like outer worlds at their belt, you can go from there.

What I said wasn't complicated, though. It was simple. Whether a score is "mid" or "good" depends on your comparison group.

You just used a different comparison group - other Obsidian games - and so to you, the game's score is below average.
 
After actually being busy at work today, coming into this thread like
George Costanza Shrug GIF
 

Humdinger

Gold Member
Maybe not ta brightest of me to try this one in the middle of KCD2, there are so many lvl between thoose two games when it comes to quality and greatness its not even fun.

I wonder if this game suffered by comparison, being released so close to KCD2. Contrast effect and all.
 
Adding to the previous poster correction, I would mention Nikke and Infinity Nikki (Korean and Chinese respectively) as examples of excellent writing, both in worldbuilding and story presentation. There are others.
I disagree with Infinity Nikki as I've played it. It has good concepts and worldbuilding ideas, but the actual scene-to-scene writing is really, really slowly paced, not engaging, and honestly not that well written. I try very, very hard to not play a podcast while I play it but it for sure has all of the feelings of a podcast-game experience.
By the way, character design is also storytelling. Some characters catch attention by their mere presence, from physique to clothing or attitude. When you see Vergil in DMC3 in just one minute you think "whoa, that guy is cool", despite being the villain you like him immediately. Games like Genshin or Wuthering Waves may have bad dialogues, but the way they introduce characters are often on point. People don't pull for them only because they have boobs, come on.
Character design can only take you so far, which was part of my point. You need the rest to be that 9/10 experience (if that what your game is going for)
Western faux writers not only can't write for their lives, they have also forgotten what cool means.
And this is one of my issues. You are using a broad brush with western writers, and then using a very thin brush with everyone else. The fair way to go about this would be to use the same critical mind for every game and not have bias about it.
Said this, the main problem with video game writers is that most of them aren't writers. Writing is a craft that takes hundreds of hours to hone, it's not just sitting at your desk and shitting out the first thing that crosses your mind. Since these people lack ideas for good writing, they insert their beliefs and even their personas in the stories, resulting in a pile of trash.

The same applies to game design. The lack of innovation in gameplay or quest design is because they are bad creators who just build on the foundations laid by the true pros.
I agree with this but for all writers, not just western ones.
LMAO, I did not know my man is actually playing so many mobile gacha games! I expect better.
If people here keep saying how much better these games are than their western counterparts, then that means I have to give each and every game a fair chance to impress me. That's what being fair is all about. I will eventually move on to Stellar Blade and Wukong. I don't have high hopes for either's story but I know their gameplay will most likely impress me.
Joke aside, let me tell you some facts about Chinese gaming industry. Those online gacha games (Genshin, ZZZ, or Wuthering Waves, etc), the devs have very specialized writing teams, aimed to please their major audience in China, which is most pre-college students. So all those games' stories pretty much a template tailored for those teenagers.
Yet you have people here claiming otherwise. Both can't be correct, so based on what you're saying, people are defending them too hard.
As opposed to gacha games, Chinese single-player devs are really valuing their stories and often go above and beyond with expectations of their writers. I guess a major barrier is that many if not all of those games are using ancient Chinese background/lores, and the sheer difficulty of localization distances the western audience. You'll definitely see a different in PBZ compared to say Genshin, in terms of maturity of story.
I hope so, but so far PBZ has only impressed me with gameplay, encounter design, and not it's story. Again, that's not me taking a dig at the game as I want it to be good or better than what I'm currently witnessing.
 

LectureMaster

Gold Member
I disagree with Infinity Nikki as I've played it. It has good concepts and worldbuilding ideas, but the actual scene-to-scene writing is really, really slowly paced, not engaging, and honestly not that well written. I try very, very hard to not play a podcast while I play it but it for sure has all of the feelings of a podcast-game experience.

Character design can only take you so far, which was part of my point. You need the rest to be that 9/10 experience (if that what your game is going for)

And this is one of my issues. You are using a broad brush with western writers, and then using a very thin brush with everyone else. The fair way to go about this would be to use the same critical mind for every game and not have bias about it.

I agree with this but for all writers, not just western ones.

If people here keep saying how much better these games are than their western counterparts, then that means I have to give each and every game a fair chance to impress me. That's what being fair is all about. I will eventually move on to Stellar Blade and Wukong. I don't have high hopes for either's story but I know their gameplay will most likely impress me.

Yet you have people here claiming otherwise. Both can't be correct, so based on what you're saying, people are defending them too hard.

I hope so, but so far PBZ has only impressed me with gameplay, encounter design, and not it's story. Again, that's not me taking a dig at the game as I want it to be good or better than what I'm currently witnessing.
Haha, my man is very critical. I can recommend you some Chinese games with great stories. I just can't comment on translation though, as I played them in Chinese.


 
Haha, my man is very critical. I can recommend you some Chinese games with great stories. I just can't comment on translation though, as I played them in Chinese.


I appreciate the recommendations and I'll wishlist both of these, thank you. Again, I'm not trying to be overly critical, I'm simply trying to be fair, unbiased, and neutral. A fun game will be a fun game regardless of origin, culture, or intent, that's always how I've felt about this hobby since I was a kid and that northern star has not changed or wavered.

So many people over the years have become so insular, jaded, angry or downright stopped playing video games altogether and have forgotten what they are meant to be at the end of the day, video games. Even with demos, refund services, and rental services, barely anyone just checks a random game out anymore (especially indie ones) like they used to without needing some sort of higher form of validation for doing so, whether it be a streamer, reviewer, algorithm, or other reason.

Regardless I don't want to soapbox about it too much.
 
I disagree with Infinity Nikki as I've played it. It has good concepts and worldbuilding ideas, but the actual scene-to-scene writing is really, really slowly paced, not engaging, and honestly not that well written. I try very, very hard to not play a podcast while I play it but it for sure has all of the feelings of a podcast-game experience.

Character design can only take you so far, which was part of my point. You need the rest to be that 9/10 experience (if that what your game is going for)

And this is one of my issues. You are using a broad brush with western writers, and then using a very thin brush with everyone else. The fair way to go about this would be to use the same critical mind for every game and not have bias about it.

I agree with this but for all writers, not just western ones.


The flaws of eastern and western narrative have different causes. To my taste, Asians have a lot of exposition (abusive) and pacing problems, even in the games that are well-written. For example, Persona 5. IMO it's a cultural thing. I'm pretty sure that cringe mascots like Paimon or Abby receive much more love in China or Japan.

I mentioned Nikki because its story pulls all the strings to be liked by women, its target audience. Most of my beta readers are female and even if they like the same stories as guys, they do it for different reasons. I appreciate how many tricks that game plays to get women engaged. It's clear they know their audience and try their best to please them.

It's the opposite attitude from Western devs, who aren't open to any candid feedback. This entitlement is their main obstacle for improvement.
 

GloveSlap

Member
I have Game Pass but.....nah. It might be different if it was an action game where you could easily skip the cut scenes. I just can't listen to endless hours of blue-haired babble in an RPG like this.
 

bender

What time is it?
So many people over the years have become so insular, jaded, angry or downright stopped playing video games altogether and have forgotten what they are meant to be at the end of the day, video games. Even with demos, refund services, and rental services, barely anyone just checks a random game out anymore (especially indie ones) like they used to without needing some sort of higher form of validation for doing so, whether it be a streamer, reviewer, algorithm, or other reason.

Regardless I don't want to soapbox about it too much.

I think that's a bit of a two-way street as that sentiment could be applied to developers/publishers. There are a ton of factors that go into this like ballooning budgets and standardizations of controls/mechanics that make most games feel very safe and also feel just like one another. I'd apply the insular and jaded label to myself as most of the stuff I'm interested in tends to be re-releases or remakes of older games (can't wait to play Suikoden 1-2 again and then throw down against my buddy in Power Stone). *insert what year is it gif*

Keep up the soapbox though, it makes for interesting discussion.
 

Mortisfacio

Member
Did Skill Up take a vacation or something? I was interested in his take, but there's been nothing so far. Even like Civ 7, Kingdom Come, Ninja Gaiden 2: Black, etc. being recent releases he's had no comment on.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Did Skill Up take a vacation or something? I was interested in his take, but there's been nothing so far. Even like Civ 7, Kingdom Come, Ninja Gaiden 2: Black, etc. being recent releases he's had no comment on.

He put out a South of Midnight preview video a day or two ago.
 
The flaws of eastern and western narrative have different causes. To my taste, Asians have a lot of exposition (abusive) and pacing problems, even in the games that are well-written. For example, Persona 5. IMO it's a cultural thing. I'm pretty sure that cringe mascots like Paimon or Abby receive much more love in China or Japan.

I mentioned Nikki because its story pulls all the strings to be liked by women, its target audience. Most of my beta readers are female and even if they like the same stories as guys, they do it for different reasons. I appreciate how many tricks that game plays to get women engaged. It's clear they know their audience and try their best to please them.

It's the opposite attitude from Western devs, who aren't open to any candid feedback. This entitlement is their main obstacle for improvement.
I've seen you name what you feel are the strengths and weaknesses of modern day eastern game design. What are some of your favorite strengths of modern day western game design? It can be a top 5 if needed, but I'm just curious.

I think that's a bit of a two-way street as that sentiment could be applied to developers/publishers.
This depends on one's perspective. If you mean the tons of genres that have exploded onto steam in the past 10 years that offer experiences aside from challenge and skill, I'd disagree. It's fun for those who want them that way.

If you mean people making games with a social/political message, but they're still games at the end of the day that you can play and have fun with, I'd still disagree. Again, it's fun for those who want them that way.

The main thing I'd mostly-agree with are the games which I'd consider monetary wallet vampires that prey on addictions, that were built for people in suits at the top floor of a building in order to make a quick buck. But even then, sometimes those games strangely can find a way to be fun depending on what they do and how much they give you vs how much they charge.

There are a ton of factors that go into this like ballooning budgets and standardizations of controls/mechanics that make most games feel very safe and also feel just like one another.
Agreed, but to me even then that doesn't mean they're not trying to be made to be fun. Things go wrong sometimes, mismanagement happens, games are cancelled, money gets spent wrong, and even after all of this most devs are still just trying to make a good experience.
I'd apply the insular and jaded label to myself as most of the stuff I'm interested in tends to be re-releases or remakes of older games (can't wait to play Suikoden 1-2 again and then throw down against my buddy in Power Stone). *insert what year is it gif*
I've grown to be okay with people constantly being negative on...well, everything. It's the part of the internet's story arc we are in right now.

I guess one of my issues is that most of the people who are telling others to 'not play this' or 'stay away from that' are not really recommending alternative experiences.

There are tons of games that release every year, especially this year as we're packed with so many releases some games will have no choice but to fail in sales... but people are being recommended a microscopically small amount of alternative games after they are told to avoid most of everything else or that everything else is trash.
Keep up the soapbox though, it makes for interesting discussion.
Man... I don't have as much fun doing this anymore as I used to. Too many bad faith arguments, too many people who are playing team sports, too many cyclical arguments I've seen again and again. Sometimes it's fun to hop in and engage but I mostly stick to reacting and posting fun comments and gifs for a reason. I've been trying to put more time into gaming itself than this forum and so far I've been successful. LectureMaster LectureMaster and Angry_Megalodon Angry_Megalodon thanks for the peaceful back and forth.

On topic, I do see myself playing Avowed one day, just not Avowed version 1.0 and not at 69.99 or 59.99. This game has a road ahead of it and I'm curious to know where it leads. I'll be in the OT when it's 24.99 or something, and I'll probably be comparing it a ton to Zeno Clash as that's the game it continues to remind me the most of, even on review day.
 

bender

What time is it?
This depends on one's perspective. If you mean the tons of genres that have exploded onto steam in the past 10 years that offer experiences aside from challenge and skill, I'd disagree. It's fun for those who want them that way.

If you mean people making games with a social/political message, but they're still games at the end of the day that you can play and have fun with, I'd still disagree. Again, it's fun for those who want them that way.

The main thing I'd mostly-agree with are the games which I'd consider monetary wallet vampires that prey on addictions, that were built for people in suits at the top floor of a building in order to make a quick buck. But even then, sometimes those games strangely can find a way to be fun depending on what they do and how much they give you vs how much they charge.

Agreed, but to me even then that doesn't mean they're not trying to be made to be fun. Things go wrong sometimes, mismanagement happens, games are cancelled, money gets spent wrong, and even after all of this most devs are still just trying to make a good experience.

I've grown to be okay with people constantly being negative on...well, everything. It's the part of the internet's story arc we are in right now.

I guess one of my issues is that most of the people who are telling others to 'not play this' or 'stay away from that' are not really recommending alternative experiences.

There are tons of games that release every year, especially this year as we're packed with so many releases some games will have no choice but to fail in sales... but people are being recommended a microscopically small amount of alternative games after they are told to avoid most of everything else or that everything else is trash.

Man... I don't have as much fun doing this anymore as I used to. Too many bad faith arguments, too many people who are playing team sports, too many cyclical arguments I've seen again and again. Sometimes it's fun to hop in and engage but I mostly stick to reacting and posting fun comments and gifs for a reason. I've been trying to put more time into gaming itself than this forum and so far I've been successful. LectureMaster LectureMaster and Angry_Megalodon Angry_Megalodon thanks for the peaceful back and forth.

On topic, I do see myself playing Avowed one day, just not Avowed version 1.0 and not at 69.99 or 59.99. This game has a road ahead of it and I'm curious to know where it leads. I'll be in the OT when it's 24.99 or something, and I'll probably be comparing it a ton to Zeno Clash as that's the game it continues to remind me the most of, even on review day.

I don't really think a game needs to be anything to be a game. I'm playing through Ace Attorney series again right now and those are basically a combo of visual novel and adventure game.

I also don't care about messaging in games. There is a time and place for everything and if the authorial intent doesn't interest me, I'm happy to ignore it.

I think of like this, if we used a ten point scale to measure a games quality, I think almost everything fits comfortably in the 6-8 range these days. Not great, not bad, merely good but mostly not interesting. I'd take a bad game over most of these as they'd hopefully have something novel and be worthy of discussing. Chasing trends is nothing new but with the democratization of development and publishing, the amount and speed of the results of that trend chasing is kind of nuts (Vampire Survivors clones or the boomer shooter boom are the most recent things to come to mind) and that happens from all studio sizes. I just wish we had more out of the box thinking. But like you said, there are a ton of games released every year...though I'd argue almost too many with Steam averaging like 50 releases per day and there are bound to be games that can satisfy anyone's needs/wants.

I can be pretty dismissive in general but I do still like discussions and sometimes you just have to put yourself out there and risk bad faith arguments.
 

MacReady13

Member
It does matter, MS will give Obsidian a pass when Avowed and Outer Worlds 2 bombs, but they are going to be a Fallout factory next.

If they ruin Fallout, the studio will get shuttered
Define “bomb” within the Xbox ecosystem system… they don’t rely on sales to determine success! For them, Indiana Jones was successful cause 4 million people played it! How many actually gave them money by purchasing it? Who the fuck knows. And does Microsoft care? Who the fuck knows? They must not care as they push rentals so hard and try fooling everyone into thinking a metric of success, in fact the ONLY metric of success for them, is how many people played the game!
 

Flabagast

Member
I truly believe KCD2 got knocked down 5 points on Metacritic due to « cultural issues » (see the 5 or 6/10 scores saying that the game or its authors are « problematic ») and Avowed got knocked up by 5 points on the contrary (the same outlets are giving very high scores to it).
Down the line in a few months KCD 2 will be regarded as a 9.5 /10 game while Avowed will be considered a 6-7. You can save this post
 

Buggy Loop

Member
Maybe it was posted already but GmanLives(who I have good fain in) basically said it was crap


Kind of torn apart from a couple of peoples I trust, including GmanLives. Also two french reviewers I follow, both are complete opposite opinions, like WTF how can it be so polarizing.

While also having this guy who was the goat sekiro teacher and other souls in general, liking the exploration a lot and finding the combat quite ok. I'm a bit on the side of his opinion that I always like a fantasy RPG above most genres and exploration is a big part of my enjoyment.



On some level its a disappointing obsidian RPG, on the other hand it seems like its almost Borderland a tad with combat and loot and some side exploration. Becomes more of a simplistic RPG like Karak Karak said.

Many strange decisions in the game that is puzzling, such as no respawn, no AI emergent gameplay, simplistic RPG elements like looting a chest just uses lockpicks and no skills required, etc. Very weird and unexpected direction from them. It seems a fun game on its own but when you attach Obsidian name on that, I think its puzzling. Waiting on more impressions in coming days and otherwise if it comes to it, I'll try on gamepass next week.
 
Define “bomb” within the Xbox ecosystem system… they don’t rely on sales to determine success! For them, Indiana Jones was successful cause 4 million people played it! How many actually gave them money by purchasing it? Who the fuck knows. And does Microsoft care? Who the fuck knows? They must not care as they push rentals so hard and try fooling everyone into thinking a metric of success, in fact the ONLY metric of success for them, is how many people played the game!
Microsoft absolutely do care. Depending how well these games do on Gamepass will decide the future of the subscription. I think they'll give the service another year or two to see if they can gain momentum, but Gamepass is certainly on the chopping block unless it rapidly improves its numbers

Indy definitely bombed. It surely had a 100+mil budget, and that is before factoring in Disney licensing costs. 4mil is quite bad for a big AAA game on Gamepass, which Indy is. Avowed development probably cost 1/2 or even 1/3 the budget of Indy. I'm sure relative to the budget, Avowed will do fine. Will it grow the subscription? Probably not much, but given it's budget, it doesn't really have to
 

Dane

Member
Kind of torn apart from a couple of peoples I trust, including GmanLives. Also two french reviewers I follow, both are complete opposite opinions, like WTF how can it be so polarizing.

While also having this guy who was the goat sekiro teacher and other souls in general, liking the exploration a lot and finding the combat quite ok. I'm a bit on the side of his opinion that I always like a fantasy RPG above most genres and exploration is a big part of my enjoyment.



On some level its a disappointing obsidian RPG, on the other hand it seems like its almost Borderland a tad with combat and loot and some side exploration. Becomes more of a simplistic RPG like Karak Karak said.

Many strange decisions in the game that is puzzling, such as no respawn, no AI emergent gameplay, simplistic RPG elements like looting a chest just uses lockpicks and no skills required, etc. Very weird and unexpected direction from them. It seems a fun game on its own but when you attach Obsidian name on that, I think its puzzling. Waiting on more impressions in coming days and otherwise if it comes to it, I'll try on gamepass next week.

IMO its because of the combat and exploration which i've read to be at least more on the consensus to be fun, the lighter RPG side reminds me indeed of Borderlands and Dying Light, which I think its because of expectations of "Fantasy + Obsidian" meaning designs based of Bethesda, Bioware and other studios, when it was probably closer to Dark Messiah.
 

Humdinger

Gold Member
If his schtick is that he 100%'s all games before reviewing, he probably knows more what he's talking about than most 🤷‍♂️

I know that's supposed to be a selling point, but I wonder about someone who even wants to 100% every game he reviews. I'm thinking, "Don't you have anything better to do with your time?"

(Yet here I am on GAF, so I'm one to talk.)
 
Top Bottom