Batman v. Superman RT Thread: like standing ovations in rain

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Frozenprince said:
Every time. Every fucking time.

Just because you like the movie doesn't make film critics or their views invalid.
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I actually stand on middle ground

BvS is a 50/50 movie for me. For everything it did well and had fun there was an equal level of odditty and jank

I dont hate it like the critics do but I grasp what they take issue with

This clearly isnt my top comic book movie this year. Deadpool still king as of right now.
 
SG-17 said:
It feels like way too many people were expecting/wanting a cut and paste sterile TV Movie vibe Marvel job for DC.
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It's like you didn't read any of the actual reviews that users have posted in this thread and just inserted your pre-conceived assumption of what they wanted from the movie and dislike about it.
 
SG-17 said:
It feels like way too many people were expecting/wanting a cut and paste sterile TV Movie vibe Marvel job for DC.
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Many people expected Batman and Superman. You can say what you want about Marvel, but they get their heroes. Even with changes people could see, "this is Iromman", "this is Thor", "this is Cap". But here? "This is Batman if he were totally different."
The amount of people who know Batman as the protector of Gotham who does not kill for one reason or the other, is elapsing the Crazy Steve Miller fans easily.
 
I mentioned this before, but can we get a poll where people can push their score 1-10 or 1-5 scale?. It can help show GAF opinion especially for such a divisive film.
 
Copy pasting my opinions from elsewhere:

Ok, so I saw BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE.

Well, it wasn't great. It had the potential to be great, but it gave off the vibe that it wouldn't know potential if it hit it in the face. Visually it was very nice looking and stylized, but it squandered that potential. Plot was full of holes because Snyder seems to think that development is for nerds - plot elements are mentioned then resolved off screen. All the characters are neither likeable nor true to their comic book counterparts. Motivations of characters don't make sense, then are resolved in utterly stupid ways. Batman is wasted. Ben Affleck's acting was fine, but he wasn't convincing as batman - perhaps because the character was almost nothing like it. Superman was a doormat. Lois Lane was the typical "female love interest plot device". Wonder Woman was barely in it, so she was the least off-putting character. This felt like one of those pre-MCU superhero movies where they kind of appropriate the setting and characters then don't do them any justice or have any resolution. It had cool moments, but they were lost because it tried to be 5 different movies at the same time, yet still somehow nothing happened. Editing was bizarre, jumping between scenes with no context or cue. It spent way too much time on irrelevant grandstanding and way too little time on actual character and plot building. It was like they shot a bunch of cool trailerbait scenes, then at the last moment went "oh wait, we have to make a movie out of this". I've never seen a movie try to say so much yet end up saying so little.

It wasn't a mind-bogglingly horrendous movie, but all of its faults were made worse by how seriously it tried to take itself, with Nietzsche quotes and Ayn Rand-isms and other delusions of grandeur. It wasn't the worst movie ever, but considering the expectation, the place in the DC cinematic universe, the title, the characters involved, basically all the stakes combined, it was an intense disappointment. It learned from none of the things that worked in the Nolan Batman movies or Mavel movies, and improved on nothing from Man of Steel. It's so tone deaf, it's like it was made in a vacuum. For a movie with "justice" in its title, it did none of that to its source material, its fans, its cast or VFX budget.
 
I'm yet to watch this movie (booked for tomorrow night), but have a question for the more critical people in this thread.

From what I gather the main gripes with the film seem to be poor characterization and a poorly cut first half with no arching narrative (I'm ignoring complaints about performances for my question).

Do people feel the Director's cut maybe able to fix these issues? If it were to add in more characterization for Clark, Bruce and Lex? Maybe even more lines for wonder woman who seems to be well received. In addition, scenes to make the first half better flow.

I'm aware this is all largely conjecture and there are issues which can not be fixed with a director's cut; just wondering if the movie is fixable in the eyes of those who dislike it greatly. Two examples off the top of my head where I loved the DC after hating the theatrical release are Watchmen and Kingdom of Heaven for example.
 
Ocarina_117 said:
I'm yet to watch this movie (booked for tomorrow night), but have a question for the more critical people in this thread.

From what I gather the main gripes with the film seem to be poor characterization and a poorly cut first half with no arching narrative (I'm ignoring complaints about performances for my question).

Do people feel the Director's cut maybe able to fix these issues? If it were to add in more characterization for Clark, Bruce and Lex? Maybe even more lines for wonder woman who seems to be well received. In addition, scenes to make the first half better flow.

I'm aware this is all largely conjecture and there are issues which can not be fixed with a director's cut; just wondering if the movie is fixable in the eyes of those who dislike it greatly. Two examples off the top of my head where I loved the DC after hating the theatrical release are Watchmen and Kingdom of Heaven for example.
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I don't think a different cut will help the movie. It's just fundamentally wrong. Almost nothing in the movie works.
 
Ocarina_117 said:
I'm yet to watch this movie (booked for tomorrow night), but have a question for the more critical people in this thread.

From what I gather the main gripes with the film seem to be poor characterization and a poorly cut first half with no arching narrative (I'm ignoring complaints about performances for my question).

Do people feel the Director's cut maybe able to fix these issues? If it were to add in more characterization for Clark, Bruce and Lex? Maybe even more lines for wonder woman who seems to be well received. In addition, scenes to make the first half better flow.

I'm aware this is all largely conjecture and there are issues which can not be fixed with a director's cut; just wondering if the movie is fixable in the eyes of those who dislike it greatly. Two examples off the top of my head where I loved the DC after hating the theatrical release are Watchmen and Kingdom of Heaven for example.
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Honestly I feel like it needs to be cut down, maybe add in a couple lost scenes but what's their has too many unnecessary moments.
 
nynt9 said:
Copy pasting my opinions from elsewhere:

Ok, so I saw BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE.

Well, it wasn't great. It had the potential to be great, but it gave off the vibe that it wouldn't know potential if it hit it in the face. Visually it was very nice looking and stylized, but it squandered that potential. Plot was full of holes because Snyder seems to think that development is for nerds - plot elements are mentioned then resolved off screen. All the characters are neither likeable nor true to their comic book counterparts. Motivations of characters don't make sense, then are resolved in utterly stupid ways. Batman is wasted. Ben Affleck's acting was fine, but he wasn't convincing as batman - perhaps because the character was almost nothing like it. Superman was a doormat. Lois Lane was the typical "female love interest plot device". Wonder Woman was barely in it, so she was the least off-putting character. This felt like one of those pre-MCU superhero movies where they kind of appropriate the setting and characters then don't do them any justice or have any resolution. It had cool moments, but they were lost because it tried to be 5 different movies at the same time, yet still somehow nothing happened. Editing was bizarre, jumping between scenes with no context or cue. It spent way too much time on irrelevant grandstanding and way too little time on actual character and plot building. It was like they shot a bunch of cool trailerbait scenes, then at the last moment went "oh wait, we have to make a movie out of this". I've never seen a movie try to say so much yet end up saying so little.

It wasn't a mind-bogglingly horrendous movie, but all of its faults were made worse by how seriously it tried to take itself, with Nietzsche quotes and Ayn Rand-isms and other delusions of grandeur. It wasn't the worst movie ever, but considering the expectation, the place in the DC cinematic universe, the title, the characters involved, basically all the stakes combined, it was an intense disappointment. It learned from none of the things that worked in the Nolan Batman movies or Mavel movies, and improved on nothing from Man of Steel. It's so tone deaf, it's like it was made in a vacuum. For a movie with "justice" in its title, it did none of that to its source material, its fans, its cast or VFX budget.
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Yup

Zack Snyder

He needs very simplistic stories with lots of action and spectacle

He excels at that and fails at representing plot, dialog and nuance

Damn shame. I feel like he would have been a better director for a solo character film that fits his philosphy

Thats one thing Marvel has been nailing. Pairing the right directors with the right movies
 
SG-17 said:
It feels like way too many people were expecting/wanting a cut and paste sterile TV Movie vibe Marvel job for DC.
Click to expand...

Or, maybe, like me, they wanted a film that was competently made.

Ignoring all the plot and story shit, the editing is so bad I was confused as to what the hell was happening when and where and why for a good 1/3rd of the film.
 
Ocarina_117 said:
I'm yet to watch this movie (booked for tomorrow night), but have a question for the more critical people in this thread.

From what I gather the main gripes with the film seem to be poor characterization and a poorly cut first half with no arching narrative (I'm ignoring complaints about performances for my question).

Do people feel the Director's cut maybe able to fix these issues? If it were to add in more characterization for Clark, Bruce and Lex? Maybe even more lines for wonder woman who seems to be well received. In addition, scenes to make the first half better flow.

I'm aware this is all largely conjecture and there are issues which can not be fixed with a director's cut; just wondering if the movie is fixable in the eyes of those who dislike it greatly. Two examples off the top of my head where I loved the DC after hating the theatrical release are Watchmen and Kingdom of Heaven for example.
Click to expand...
30 more minutes of this movie might help in the same way 30 more minutes of waterboarding might make an interrogation work.
 
Ocarina_117 said:
Do people feel the Director's cut maybe able to fix these issues? If it were to add in more characterization for Clark, Bruce and Lex? Maybe even more lines for wonder woman who seems to be well received. In addition, scenes to make the first half better flow.
Click to expand...

For me? Most likely not. Interviews with Snyder pin most of the problems to him; I'm not sure I'd want to see more of his stamp on the movie rather than less. (Can I get a "more extreme editor's cut" instead?)

There is a chance it could at least fix some problems with how early scenes are poorly stitched together, though. I want to believe that there were some harsh cuts made, because I don't want to think this much money and talent went into a movie without anyone grasping basic thematic and visual continuity between connected scenes. So, I'd say it's a possibility.
 
Ocarina_117 said:
I'm yet to watch this movie (booked for tomorrow night), but have a question for the more critical people in this thread.

From what I gather the main gripes with the film seem to be poor characterization and a poorly cut first half with no arching narrative (I'm ignoring complaints about performances for my question).

Do people feel the Director's cut maybe able to fix these issues? If it were to add in more characterization for Clark, Bruce and Lex? Maybe even more lines for wonder woman who seems to be well received. In addition, scenes to make the first half better flow.

I'm aware this is all largely conjecture and there are issues which can not be fixed with a director's cut; just wondering if the movie is fixable in the eyes of those who dislike it greatly. Two examples off the top of my head where I loved the DC after hating the theatrical release are Watchmen and Kingdom of Heaven for example.
Click to expand...

Directors Cut would help only if they rearranged the order of some scenes

He cut things back and forth WAY too much
 
Ocarina_117 said:
I'm yet to watch this movie (booked for tomorrow night), but have a question for the more critical people in this thread.

From what I gather the main gripes with the film seem to be poor characterization and a poorly cut first half with no arching narrative (I'm ignoring complaints about performances for my question).

Do people feel the Director's cut maybe able to fix these issues? If it were to add in more characterization for Clark, Bruce and Lex? Maybe even more lines for wonder woman who seems to be well received. In addition, scenes to make the first half better flow.

I'm aware this is all largely conjecture and there are issues which can not be fixed with a director's cut; just wondering if the movie is fixable in the eyes of those who dislike it greatly. Two examples off the top of my head where I loved the DC after hating the theatrical release are Watchmen and Kingdom of Heaven for example.
Click to expand...
an extended cut would more than likely solve most if not all of the early pacing issues within the film. The first act you can tell is where most of the cuts were made. The length of the movie was never an issue for me, and I think the film desperately needs the extra 30 minutes.
 
Damn, BvS is the first movie I've ever felt meh about, but REALLY want to see it a second time. And I rarely want to see movies a second time unless it's amazing like Guardians or Mad Max. I really do believe that there is a good, maybe even great, movie underneath, but the terrible pacing and rushed story really got in the way. I'm tempted to go to the theater again, but I'd much rather wait for the ultimate R-rated cut. The lack of characterization is definitely my biggest gripe of all, so I hope the ultimate cut helps fix that. I can look past everything else as long as that happens.
 
Ocarina_117 said:
I'm yet to watch this movie (booked for tomorrow night), but have a question for the more critical people in this thread.

From what I gather the main gripes with the film seem to be poor characterization and a poorly cut first half with no arching narrative (I'm ignoring complaints about performances for my question).

Do people feel the Director's cut maybe able to fix these issues? If it were to add in more characterization for Clark, Bruce and Lex? Maybe even more lines for wonder woman who seems to be well received. In addition, scenes to make the first half better flow.

I'm aware this is all largely conjecture and there are issues which can not be fixed with a director's cut; just wondering if the movie is fixable in the eyes of those who dislike it greatly. Two examples off the top of my head where I loved the DC after hating the theatrical release are Watchmen and Kingdom of Heaven for example.
Click to expand...

The plot itself is fundamentally broken. I think a director's cut will do little to salvage the mess.
 
Kouichi said:
Damn, BvS is the first movie I've ever felt meh about, but REALLY want to see it a second time. And I rarely want to see movies a second time unless it's amazing like Guardians or Mad Max. I really do believe that there is a good, maybe even great, movie underneath, but the terrible pacing and rushed story really got in the way. I'm tempted to go to the theater again, but I'd much rather wait for the ultimate R-rated cut. The lack of characterization is definitely my biggest gripe of all, so I hope the ultimate cut helps fix that. I can look past everything else as long as that happens.
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I want to see it completely recut

Once the extended edition comes out Im almost positive someone can recut and edit it into a solid 7/10 movie

SO many things should have either been left out of rearranged
 
I'm a rather large DC fanboy anyway, but even being entirely objective I'd still give the film a 7/10.

It really needed to be two movies; the pacing was completely janky; Ben Affleck killed it as Batman.
 
Ocarina_117 said:
I'm yet to watch this movie (booked for tomorrow night), but have a question for the more critical people in this thread.

From what I gather the main gripes with the film seem to be poor characterization and a poorly cut first half with no arching narrative (I'm ignoring complaints about performances for my question).

Do people feel the Director's cut maybe able to fix these issues? If it were to add in more characterization for Clark, Bruce and Lex? Maybe even more lines for wonder woman who seems to be well received. In addition, scenes to make the first half better flow.

I'm aware this is all largely conjecture and there are issues which can not be fixed with a director's cut; just wondering if the movie is fixable in the eyes of those who dislike it greatly. Two examples off the top of my head where I loved the DC after hating the theatrical release are Watchmen and Kingdom of Heaven for example.
Click to expand...
I believe that Snyder stated he needed to cut it down an hour (or half an hour) for theaters. So a Director's cut should be even better than the theatrical cut. I can't wait.
 
neojubei said:
For the people who liked this movie, would you want Synder to direct the next 5 DCU movies?
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i didn't really like this movie but nah no thanks. he had some cool ideas in here and very nice imagery. his handling of the waynes murder and the man of steel opening was especially incredible.

but his vision of superman is way too flawed and selfish to make a likable justice league movie. gonna need somebody else who's willing to let him become that idealized hero.
 
Another friend seen it and he thinks it's a editing mess, and said it felt like 2 different movies, then i remember the rumor about this movie being 2 parts, one in spring, the other in fall same year, ala Matrix..
 
So yeah, it was shit.

- Completely random, meaningless dream sequences
- Awful pacing
- Horrendous OST. I expect better from Zimmer
- Thank God everyone left Metropolis after the work day was over! Otherwise, another million-ish people would have blown up from the multiple nuclear blasts! Luckily, Anderson was there to tell us that the city was empty unlike the MoS.

And the worst part of all- Eisenberg's Luthor. Holy shit, his character was uninteresting, terribly acted, terribly written, and probably the most annoying character I've seen in a movie in years.

I'm sure there is more, but I don't even want to think about it. Shit is an understatement.

Nemesis121 said:
Another friend seen it and he thinks it's a editing mess, and said it felt like 2 different movies, then i remember the rumor about this movie being 2 parts, one in spring, the other in fall same year, ala Matrix..
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And that's exactly how it felt.
 
Saw it last night, I liked it a lot, Im not sure why the critics hate it so much. The movie isnt the best comic book movie, but I wil say its better than MoS, Iron Man 3 and Thor 2.

My only dislike was this version of Lex, Im not sure why change Lex. About Batman
While the killing was very noticeable, I think the point is that this is a grizzled Batman, one that lost Robin and has become more relentles, besides we had two Very well liked Batman movies were he kills left and right and People were ok with this

I felt also that the first half of the movie could had been shorter, I found the knightmare scene either Unnecessary or too long for its purpose.

Besides that the movie was fantastic and While I think movies like Winter Soldier and Avengers were better for me, but this movie have a couple of moments were it gave me goosegumps from the excitement, a reaction I havent have from any other Comic Book movie, I was literally shaking from this:
Wonder Woman checking Lex files and seen the other super heroes footage that was pure boss, and when for the first time the holy trinity got together, thise right there made the movie for me

In short if you like DC heroes or liked MoS is a must see movie, it has flaws, but not to the degree how it shows on RT, 7/10 for me.
 
Been hearing mixed impressions on this movie on fb now. From 6/10, still see it if you're comic book fan to people having orgasms over how good it is. Nothing along the lines of 3 or 4/10 though. 3 more days until I find out.
 
neojubei said:
For the people who liked this movie, would you want Synder to direct the next 5 DCU movies?
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I didn't like BvS, but I think Snyder has to go. His vision of Batman and Superman are flawed, completely turning them into heroes that the audience has difficulty rooting for and almost making people actively dislike them instead. Batman shouldn't kill and should avoid using guns, and Superman needs to be more of what he's wearing on his chest: a symbol for hope, someone to look up to, not a brooding reluctant God who is just going through the motions when he feels like it while killing people as well, I mean WTF????

Nah, Snyder isn't getting it, and he needs to go IMHO. Put him on a Spawn movie and that could be good, but get him the hell away from Batman and Superman.
 
duckroll said:
I think the actual argument about whether Superman or Batman should or should not kill is boring. It is so boring that the only thing more boring is the static depiction of Superman as a total boy scout with perfect morality. Why is the argument boring? Because it doesn't matter. character changes in adaptations can always be justified if the writing is good enough and if there is a good point being made. The problem isn't that a superhero kills people, the problem is when there is a disconnect between a character's actions and how those actions are depicted. Just like how the problem with MoS' ending isn't that Superman kills Zod. That in itself can be justified. It is how the scene was depicted that is laughable.
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Agreed tenfold. There are many adaptations of TDK where he kills, but they manage to provide context for it that makes it interesting. BvS gives us very little reason, or time, for that matter, to accept the new moral code of the classic heroes.

Batman and Superman kill because Snyder thinks it looks cool. That's it.
 
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