Batman v. Superman RT Thread: like standing ovations in rain

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Gordon Shumway said:
Ok..gonna make it brief.

Kudos to Affleck. He's Batman. No doubt.

Wonder Woman was fine.

Superman..I somehow liked him better in MoS..that's crazy.

PLEASE, kill off Lex Luthor.

Up until "the fight" happens, the editing and pacing was nuts..I actually laughed a couple of times. "Messy" is definitely the word to use. It was also pretty boring, imo, unless Batman was on the screen, and he was on a whole other level..I didn't see it coming, and I've read plenty of spoilers.
Holy shit. He beat Superman like a straight up chump. That was a fun watch
. I really dislike his turn around with Superman. I get it. It still felt lame to me. As usual with Snyder, the eye candy was intense and wasn't really the problem.

5/10

Got a bit of a headache from a long night and early viewing. I'll have more to say later. Seriously. Fuck Lex hard. They should have just cast Jim Carry to play the Riddler again. Geezuz..
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Glad you're on the rational side, Shumway. Join us in the spoiler thread, we're having fun taking this film apart.
 
Garlador said:
Don't mistake me, I like Peter Parker and Bruce Wayne very much. But, in their cases, it often feels like there are two characters: the costume and the secret identity. Spider-man often doesn't act like Peter Parker, and Bruce doesn't always act like Batman. They put the suit on (or take the suit off) and play a role.

Which is fine, but I have a preference of which one I find more interesting (the ones with the costumes on).

But for Captain America, he's a character that is Steve Rogers at all times. Whether the suit is on or off, he's the same person, never playing a "role", and I think that's what I like about him so much. He's always the same man, never having to pretend, and he never fakes his feelings or emotions or morals. He was "Captain America" even when he was a 90 lbs. asthmatic standing up to bullies, and he was Captain America decades later in a world that viewed his patriotic ideals as old-fashioned and outdated.


That's what I loved about Superman so much too, at least the versions that do him right. One of my favorite comics has him tell Wonder Woman that she was attracted to "Superman" the hero, but that he was really just Clark Kent, a boy from Kansas. He was humble, even with his powers, and he was defined by his compassion and small-town values born from the purest form of Americana and idealism.

I'm in total agreement with what many have already said; Captain America does "truth, justice, and the American way" better than Superman does in film right now.

In both cases, Superman and Captain America aren't just superheroes. They were heroes so good, so upstanding, so inspirational and influential that OTHER heroes wished they were as noble and heroic.
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With Batman it should be the other way around. Bruce Wayne is the mask Batman wears to hide to the normal world how broken he is. That's the one criticism of Batfleck, I never got a clear differentiation between Batman and Wayne. Other incarnations have cast Wayne as a playboy etc to demarcate Wayne and Batman not saying they had to be quite so upfront with it, but I never really got a sense of Bruce Wayne in this film.
 
tomtom94 said:
I love it, just have two problems:

1 - Always find myself losing interest after Bucky falls off the cliff for some reason
2 - killing off Tucci's character was really lame
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I watched it again for the dozenth time and I realized it isn't the montage that kills the momentum, it's the train boarding scene. For something that should be very exciting, it's littered with really boring shots and mediocre cgi. Everything afterwards is pretty good but that zip line scene really brings things to a halt.
 
kmag said:
With Batman it should be the other way around. Bruce Wayne is the mask Batman wears to hide to the normal world how broken he is. That's the one criticism of Batfleck, I never got a clear differentiation between Batman and Wayne. Other incarnations have cast Wayne as a playboy etc to demarcate Wayne and Batman not saying they had to be quite so upfront with it, but I never really got a sense of Bruce Wayne in this film.
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That's because we mostly saw Wayne with Alfred, where he is Batman without the suit on.
 
Can Crusher said:
The whole "This Superman hasn't been trained" is a bunch of fucking bollocks. And Captain America really is the perfect example.
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"People are missing the point, Man of Steel isn't a movie about Superman, because he wasn't Superman yet" has to be the lamest apologist deflection for that movie and it always makes me roll my eyes. Not shit he wasn't Superman, that's the whole point people were making, and he is not still.

All those themes about him being rejected or learning to make the right choice fell flat because the core to the character was broken from the beginning.
 
PsXt6vj.gif


That was the moment for my best friend. I don't know what it was about that, if it was how instantly selfless and brave he was or what, but that moment was when she knew Cap was her guy in the MCU.

She also loved Superman after I got her to watch the animated version of All-Star. She's raging across facebook about BvS as I type this, lol.
 
Dalek said:
This is my favorite scene in the movie. " A weak man knows the value of strength. Of compassion."
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Stanley Tucci was great, especially for a character with such limited screentime. One of the reasons why the second half isn't as good as the first.
 
I feel like people are missing a key point in comparing MCU Cap to DCEU Superman.

MCU Cap is from the era in which those ideals stood true and people were held to a higher standard of human decency and respect.

DCEU Superman is NOT from that era...he's from this one. In comparison, he shares some of those same ideals that were passed down from Pa Kent, but he was not raised in that time period. His moral compass is not as far right as Cap's is because he was raised in a time in which right and wrong are far more complex.

Now, I'm not saying that this as an excuse for Superman being a worse Superman character than Cap, I'm merely pointing out that, if Cap wasn't a relic of a era long gone, I don't think it would work as well if he still shared those same ideals from that era as strongly as he does. He's the goody two shoes of the Avengers BECAUSE of the era he comes from, and the morals that were implanted in him from that era.
 
Garlador said:
That's something Evans's Cap nails so well. I'm one of those guys who typically is bothered when an iconic superhero with a mask spends so much time with his mask off (Spider-man has this problem in most of his films). I'm more interested in the "hero" version than the face underneath it most of the time. I don't want to see Bruce Wayne; I want to see Batman. While Tony Stark is awesome, it gets real whenever the visor goes down. Sure, Bruce Banner is likable, but I want to see Hulk smash.

But for some reason, it's different with Evans's Cap, largely because he never needed to put on the suit - or get the serum - to be an inspirational hero. When I see him without the mask or helmet, I still absolutely, 100% see Captain America.


So watching Batman v Superman, it's so disappointing because the director doesn't "get" the characters. You can call them whatever you like, you can put them in familiar costumes, you can give them awesome super-powers and amazing abilities...

But it's not a costume, not a superpower, and not a title that made Steve Rogers a real hero. It was the person he was before any of that ever came along and it was his refusal to compromise those values and stand up to even his allies that continues to make him my favorite hero in the MCU.
this-is-fear.gif
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I like you, you get it.
 
Nafai1123 said:
I feel like people are missing a key point in comparing MCU Cap to DCEU Superman.

MCU Cap is from the era in which those ideals stood true and people were held to a higher standard of human decency and respect.

DCEU Superman is NOT from that era...he's from this one. In comparison, he shares some of those same ideals that were passed down from Pa Kent, but he was not raised in that time period. His moral compass is not as far right as Cap's is because he was raised in a time in which right and wrong are far more complex.

Now, I'm not saying that this as an excuse for Superman being a worse Superman character than Cap, I'm merely pointing out that, if Cap wasn't a relic of a era long gone, I don't think it would work as well if he still shared those same ideals from that era as strongly as he does. He's the goody two shoes of the Avengers BECAUSE of the era he comes from, and the morals that were implanted in him from that era.
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I don't think anyone would deny that a large part of Cap is the fact that he's a man out of time, and that's where a lot of his idealism comes from. But it's not like everyone from 1940 was a heroic saint, and we see that Cap stands above many of them even before he ever gets the serum.

The problem is that Superman is still supposed to get his ideals from Smallville, Kansas. It doesn't matter if its 1950s Kansas or 2010s Kansas, that's where he's supposed to be grounded ideologically. Smallville seemed to me in many ways to be a kind of physical-location based throwback to those more "Cap" ideals that he brought with him.
 
bananafactory said:
It has been an honour, and a privilege, to post with yall. I'll be very sad on the day this thread dies.
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I'm sure I'm speaking for the thread when I say a full standing ovation will be necessary commemorate such a momentous occasion.

(standing ovation being the commonly recognized definition of clapping a few times while standing to pull the underwear out of my ass)
 
Garlador said:
In both cases, Superman and Captain America aren't just superheroes. They were heroes so good, so upstanding, so inspirational and influential that OTHER heroes wished they were as noble and heroic.
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Not sure if it's been posted somewhere in this thread already, but RandomGuy made that point through the words of Stan Lee of all people almost a decade ago now.
 
orthodoxy1095 said:
The problem is that Superman is still supposed to get his ideals from Smallville, Kansas. It doesn't matter if its 1950s Kansas or 2010s Kansas, that's where he's grounded.
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It's not though. He was raised by parents who didn't know what to do with him. If he should let his friends drown. His mom tells him he doesn't owe this world a damn thing. That's the Superman that exists in these movies, like it or not.
 
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