The Celestial Emmisary is explicitly a Great One according to the game though, whereas the Moon Presence isnt ever referred to as a Great One (unless I've missed something?). I do agree that Ebreitas and Mergo's WN do seem to be OG Great Ones. Though it is implied that Ebreitas is the daughter of Kos which would seem to indicate that Kos isnt a Great One, which makes sense given the analogies to the Cthulhu mythos. In short Great Ones are akin to the mythos Great Old Ones (Cthulhu, etc.) while Kos is akin to the Outer Gods (Azathoth specifically). Going with that I'd suggest the Moon Presence is an avatar/servitor of Kos, a semi-sentient avenue to ascenscion via transformation of a petitioner with a full umbilical cord into a new Great One.
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Bloodborne Story and Lore Discussion Thread [Unmarked Spoilers]
- Thread starter GorillaJu
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The Celestial Emmisary is explicitly a Great One according to the game though, whereas the Moon Presence isnt ever referred to as a Great One (unless I've missed something?). I do agree that Ebreitas and Mergo's WN do seem to be OG Great Ones. Though it is implied that Ebreitas is the daughter of Kos which would seem to indicate that Kos isnt a Great One, which makes sense given the analogies to the Cthulhu mythos. In short Great Ones are akin to the mythos Great Old Ones (Cthulhu, etc.) while Kos is akin to the Outer Gods (Azathoth specifically). Going with that I'd suggest the Moon Presence is an avatar/servitor of Kos, a semi-sentient avenue to ascenscion via transformation of a petitioner with a full umbilical cord into a new Great One.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Ooh, that makes sense. That would explain why you're kinda sluggy looking like Erbreitas, yeah? But there has to be another way to ascend from Kos right? Unless Rom killed the moon presence or whatever too.
Oh and I inow it says Celestial Em is a great one, but doesn't it seem like a third party? Like its just doing its own thing, and may be wrecking/taking over/impersonating people like Iosafka. Like nobody really prays to it either, it just shows up in a garden or in the woods (it doesn't have statues or its own lair like Erbreitas) and as far as I know there's no lore on it. It seems to be (pushed on by the whole "Emmissary" thing) that they're recent arrivals.
So like Kos is a god sort of thing, but any powerful being would classify as a great one, which is why Rom counts as one too.
Has any DLC being rumoured or are we just assuming given FROM's track record? While I'm generally not the biggest fan of massive DLC's soon after launch I need me some more Bloodborne
Rom would seem to indicate that perhaps direct petitioning to Kos to become an Old One does work, or he could have ascended via the Moon Presence - the decription of the 1/3 umbilical cord in the old workshop seems to say the moon presence has been called three times, if we assume the first was Yharnama and the third was Gherman's wife/daughter then that leaves the second one, which may be how Rom "got his eyes" (which seems to be one of the cord of eyes functions). I do agree that the Celestial Emissary feels sort of out of place and as you say Great One may just be a label for a certain power level/"insight level" rather than a specific species identifier.
Rom would seem to indicate that perhaps direct petitioning to Kos to become an Old One does work, or he could have ascended via the Moon Presence - the decription of the 1/3 umbilical cord in the old workshop seems to say the moon presence has been called three times, if we assume the first was Yharnama and the third was Gherman's wife/daughter then that leaves the second one, which may be how Rom "got his eyes" (which seems to be one of the cord of eyes functions). I do agree that the Celestial Emissary feels sort of out of place and as you say Great One may just be a label for a certain power level/"insight level" rather than a specific species identifier.
Mendax
Member
I thought laurence's skull is the skull on the altar in the grand cathedral. he failed to fear the old blood.
piccio_ssl
Member
i was just thinking, why can we get extra bullets through hp sacrifice?
the description says that bullets and blood have to be mixed to be effective
so, where the heck are we taking them from?
the description says that bullets and blood have to be mixed to be effective
so, where the heck are we taking them from?
It is. His memory is what gives you the password.
Oh yeah I forgot about that. I thought so too when I saw that. I also assumed Amelia was his lover or was at least mourning him. Who knows, maybe they can make us time travel or something. He just feels like someone the game will use again in the future.
The basic 20 bullets are bullets you augemented with blood before hand, the ones you get with HP sacrifice are you mixing your blood with bullets "in the field"?
DS2's DLC dropped like..4 months after release, no? But it was announced shortly after DS2's release iirc
I remember From talking about an underwater LEVEL in one of their videos, but I could be mistaken. So, we might potentially get that in the DLC!
Rom was hardly underwater, let alone 'level'.
I remember From talking about an underwater LEVEL in one of their videos, but I could be mistaken. So, we might potentially get that in the DLC!
Rom was hardly underwater, let alone 'level'.
Ordinaryundone
Member
I'm suddenly very hyped for a big old slobberknocker with Not-Cthulu.....
ShadowSoldier89
Member
some quality rule 34 ideas you are presenting
amelia's transformation was sad. Especially how she continues to clutch the...was it a pocket watch...even once she turned
I didnt even notice this. Thats...really saddening :/
Beelzebufo
Banned
I had no idea this was a thing. Sweet!
This knowledge with blood rapture would have made the game a lot easier haha
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
But Mergo is still inside her when you fight her in the Chalice Dungeon
That's a good shout, it would explain the perspective of the flashback.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
Well when i was fighting her i noticed you couldn't be grabbed by the magic unless the baby is crying, so maybe the baby is already an alien/great one.
Possibly the reason she has blood powers is that she has a great one in her
I found this interesting, especiallu since Vicar Amelia says "seek the old blood" she is a leader of the church yet their sacred adage is "fear the old blood". What happened.
WordsintheWater
Member
I dunno if anyone mentioned this, but the trophy for the True Ending on PSN says, "you became an infant Great one and returned humanity to its childhood." or something like that
Obviously the message to fear the old blood got lost along the way, like some horrible game of telephone over the years.
So it's the evangelion ending?
Is their any in game logic to why several of the alien guys are wandering around the forbidden woods?
Muscle Wizard
Banned
For those who want to see the inspiration of "Insight", I suggest reading the Lovecraft short story "From Beyond" or at least checking out this nice little stop motion film based on it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQZyYvb-GD8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQZyYvb-GD8
Stare-Bear
Banned
Has anyone found any meanings behind any of the words used in the game? I found out that "Mensis" can mean ''moon" or "month", which is fitting. There are probably a lot more to be found.
The blue mushroom heads? I dont think theyre "legit" extra-terrestrials I think theyre warped humans, Impostor Iosfeka at least can turn people into them and its heavily implied she's a choir member and theyre all over the Choir area as well. So its likely the Choir can change people into them as well. No as to why theyre just in that little crevasse? No idea. At first I thought they were mushroom people so it sort of made sense to me, but post Iosfeak's backroom and the choir area it doesnt make a lot of sense.
Though then again the snake-heads dont seem to really be linked into anything other than a cool monster theme for that area. So some stuff might be there just because its cool/horrific
Mergo is the present active of the latin verb to figuratively conceal or suppress (or to literally plunge into (water). Amygdala is the part of the brain dealing with the processing of memory, decision-making, and emotional reactions. Gherman is a cognate of the German Hermann meaning warrior or soldier. Most of the normal names dont seem to have any real significane, Willem is a derivative of William meaning resolute protector. Laurence is a derivative of Laurentius which means crowned with Laurel (maybe some pride hubris tie ins? But that seems tenuous), etc. Unless Micholash is a reference to Mikulás, the Hungarian version of Saint Nicholas, you bastards killed Santa!
Muscle Wizard
Banned
"Mensis" is also the root word where we get "Menstruation" from
I wouldnt say "obviously" but thanks for thinking so.
Im assuming Paleblood is actually the moon presence based upon a note on Nightmare Lecture Hall Floor 2
"The nameless moon preaence beckoned by Laurence and his associates. Paleblood."
So if we run with that we are essentially told to seek out the moon presence to transcend the hunt or move past it and break the cycle from the beginning of the game. Which fully explains why IMO the reborn as a great one ending is the "true" ending to the game.
Maybe the other "endings" or at least accepting Gehrman's offer is more like failing the very first thing the game tells you to do.
fear the old blood. BY THE GODS, fear it, Laurence.
it all sounds very interesting but I didn't spend too much time (which I don't have right now) on reading all the item descriptions over and over again and formulating theories.
there is some interesting stuff in this thread too, OP should be updated.
it all sounds very interesting but I didn't spend too much time (which I don't have right now) on reading all the item descriptions over and over again and formulating theories.
there is some interesting stuff in this thread too, OP should be updated.
nope, beast mode doesn't exist. confirmed by people that worked on the guide. I know that it sucks but at least the weapon that uses the "beast bar" is really cool.
What I don't get, is that in some places hunters are trying to protect the monsters like it is some passing thing or the monsters are innocent animals like when you enter Old Yarnham and encounter Djura:
Plus you generally have a lot of hostility from hunters that pop up throughout the game trying to stop you. It makes feel like they're aware of something we as the player are not, and I don't think they're necessarily corrupted or crazy as they all look fairly normal. Kinda like the player is the odd person out.
Makes me question if any of the player's actions are positive in nature for the world. Like the only way to really win was to not continue The Hunt.
Plus you generally have a lot of hostility from hunters that pop up throughout the game trying to stop you. It makes feel like they're aware of something we as the player are not, and I don't think they're necessarily corrupted or crazy as they all look fairly normal. Kinda like the player is the odd person out.
Makes me question if any of the player's actions are positive in nature for the world. Like the only way to really win was to not continue The Hunt.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Correct me if i'm wrong but that is Cainhurst Castle right?
The Xtortionist
Member
Yeah ENB confirmed it in a video
Old Yharnam is populated by people who have fallen fully to the Ashen Plague, everyone you kill there was a human who got sick and became a beast. Theyre the only people in Old Yharnam, which is sealed off from everywhere else. So Djura is basically right, you rock into Old Yharnam and start slaughtering "innocent" beasts. The hostility of the other hunters is likely because, based on stuff Eileen says and what happens with Henryk, because theyve gone mental.
Its pretty cool how interconnected the world is physically, if you go to the end of the broken bridge in Cainhurst you can see the various areas of Yharnam like the Grand Cathedral and such
OK now this a great post. I feel like we're finally gaining some insight.
bobawesome
Member
While we the player are told to seek out Paleblood the actual character has come to Yharnam looking for Paleblood, which wouldnt really make sense as they arent part of the Hunt (in the sense of the Hunt being a particular dream reality brought about by Gherman's meeting with the Moon Presence) or any particular cycle at that point.
piccio_ssl
Member
found gherman sleeping in the back of the dream house, lol never noticed him in my first run
he was speaking about laurence while asleep
he was speaking about laurence while asleep
Fair enough, i was just playing through NG+ and saw that note, it just seemed to click.
I killed him on NG+ and it just left a note on the ground that said "ascend to Oedon Chapel" probably changes depending on when you do it.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Feels weird because the Castle is in a pretty cold location. Looking from that image it doesn't look like it.
He doesn't die, just disappears until you come back to the Dream.
Aztechnology
Member
This is very well constructed. I like this timeline. How well does it coincide with notes and empirical evidence found within the game though? Alot of this seems like it can only technically be speculation. I'm attempting to collect everything and the game even one off items and not use them so I can catalog and then we can draw all the parallels and back then up with visual evidence. We need a link, maybe an editable Google doc that can only be seen by Gaf members by quoting to collect info in a more organized manner.
That's how I fought amelia,by side stepping to her clenched fist /:
Sephiroth_GR_
Member
So i was doing the Pthumeru Chalice dungeons today(for the boss trophy).Managed to get to the last one(where Yharnam, Pthumerian Queen is) and i saw the requirements to make it
25 Arcane Haze
2 Red Jelly (found in 1st floor Lecture Building inside a chest)
1 Living String (by killing Mother Brain)
I saw the desciptions of the bolded items and found it interesting:
Red Jelly:
"Material used in a Holy Chalice ritual.
Stillborn infants born of a creature of unknown origin, of the type found in some corners of the old labyrinth."
Living String:
"Special material used in a holy chalice ritual.
The immense brain that Mensis retrieved from the nightmare was indeed lined with eyes on the inside, but they were of an evil sort, and the brain itself was terrible rotten.
But even still, it was a legitimate Great One, and left a relic. A living relic, at that, which is a precious thing indeed."
From the first item i get that they resemble (even the icon is disturbing) the stillborn child from Yharnam (she's queen of the Old Labyrinth after all) and the unknown entity is a Great One?
From the second item i get that Mother Brain is actually the remains of a Great One?
Also i think i read somewhere about lined eyes with brain regarding Master Willem...
Also who is Mensis?
25 Arcane Haze
2 Red Jelly (found in 1st floor Lecture Building inside a chest)
1 Living String (by killing Mother Brain)
I saw the desciptions of the bolded items and found it interesting:
Red Jelly:
"Material used in a Holy Chalice ritual.
Stillborn infants born of a creature of unknown origin, of the type found in some corners of the old labyrinth."
Living String:
"Special material used in a holy chalice ritual.
The immense brain that Mensis retrieved from the nightmare was indeed lined with eyes on the inside, but they were of an evil sort, and the brain itself was terrible rotten.
But even still, it was a legitimate Great One, and left a relic. A living relic, at that, which is a precious thing indeed."
From the first item i get that they resemble (even the icon is disturbing) the stillborn child from Yharnam (she's queen of the Old Labyrinth after all) and the unknown entity is a Great One?
From the second item i get that Mother Brain is actually the remains of a Great One?
Also i think i read somewhere about lined eyes with brain regarding Master Willem...
Also who is Mensis?
That was different from what I tought.
Maybe it's me being dumb as a non native speaker. but I saw it more like a list if you combined with the other note in the room.
Together it went: "The nameless moon presence beckoned by Laurence and his associates. Paleblood.Third chord."
It seemed like it was naming a list of what was necessary for Laurence's ritual, so I saw it as the paleblood being the player. (Maybe meaning the note at the very beginning was for whoever "kidnapping" you as seeking the paleblood to transcend the hunt.
With all this talk of Paleblood it's important to note that our character came to Yharnam already seeking it. The first line of the game, spoken by the mysterious man in the wheelchair, is:
"Oh yes... Paleblood... Well you've come to the right place. Yharnam is home to blood ministration."
So it's not the note in the clinic that tells us to seek Paleblood, it's the entire reason we're in Yharnam in the first place. If Paleblood is some type of person or cosmic God/baby then our character was already aware of these beings. However, this line implies that Paleblood is a type of blood, and that Yharnam is where it can be found (unless the man in the wheelchair doesn't even know what it is and assumes it's a type of blood).
Gilbert doesn't know what Paleblood is, despite being a Yharnam resident, which makes it seem like whatever it is isn't common knowledge.
"Oh yes... Paleblood... Well you've come to the right place. Yharnam is home to blood ministration."
So it's not the note in the clinic that tells us to seek Paleblood, it's the entire reason we're in Yharnam in the first place. If Paleblood is some type of person or cosmic God/baby then our character was already aware of these beings. However, this line implies that Paleblood is a type of blood, and that Yharnam is where it can be found (unless the man in the wheelchair doesn't even know what it is and assumes it's a type of blood).
Gilbert doesn't know what Paleblood is, despite being a Yharnam resident, which makes it seem like whatever it is isn't common knowledge.
piccio_ssl
Member
just beat him and you can buy his set from insight messenger
Sephiroth_GR_
Member
You get his weapon in NG+ by buying it (after you get the endings where you fight with him).Don't know about his clothes.
oh so cool
Thanks guys.Now I have an incentive to play NG+...Hated the high health tank enemies ,but that weapon is worth it.
oh so cool
Thanks guys.Now I have an incentive to play NG+...Hated the high health tank enemies ,but that weapon is worth it.
You dont need to go into NG+, just eat the three umbilical cords and beat Gherman, when the Moon Presence shows up you can use the item that lets you port back to a lamp to port back to the Hunters dream and buy Ghermans weapon and armour then.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Not necessarly, you can buy the Burial Blade in normal game if you die while fighting MP.